Shields not stacking, when/if/ever?

olsborg

LadyLavina wrote: »

@olsborg

A misunderstanding it seems. For whatever reason sometimes my social skills fail over a text based medium. It appears I took the tone of what you were saying the completely wrong way, and I apologize.

Obviously my post will live on through your quote, but i shall delete it

Thank you. I should have added in my post that the recent changes to magicka builds is making medium armor playstyles alot harder to play (solo) then a month ago. Therefore prompting me to post more of my opinions on this on forum. Take infernostaff passives into consideration*, removal of counterplay to medium armor playstyle. Less dodging and more blocking, when blocking actually shuts down a key part of what full medium armor is built around (dodge and stamina regen).
Few examples is soul assault, radiant destruction, meteor etc. You basicly have to block them, some of them for several seconds, while you heal, effectively shutting down key features of playing medium armor (dodge and stamina regen)

If you compare heavy armor builds using those counter its no problem blocking through them, becasue your main resource management does not come through regeneration, but return.

*flame staff boosts dmg of singletarget skills by quite alot, including some abilities mentioned above.

SnubbS

Fvh09NL wrote: »

Maybe when stam builds can't stack proc sets anymore?

I play a build with 5.5k wep dmg, and 37k stam -- and it still doesnt hit hard enough to kill a HA build in a timely fashion. As long as HA is as strong as it is -- proc sets should stack, and destro ulti shouldn't get nerfed.

catalyst10e

How I beat out other sorcs with shield stacking is the same way I beat out mDKs spamming reflective scale... you count to 5 after you see them use it, and then hit them with a CC. Keep the pressure on and you'll be fine.

olsborg

catalyst10e wrote: »

How I beat out other sorcs with shield stacking is the same way I beat out mDKs spamming reflective scale... you count to 5 after you see them use it, and then hit them with a CC. Keep the pressure on and you'll be fine.

some tactics works vs some and dont work vs others. Mostly what im saying imo is that heavy armor and light armor have it much easier then medium armor atm, due to counters or lack of counters to that particular playstyle in current meta.
Its almost as if stamina would be able to stack vigors, but no one wants that. Still, a magicka builds reaching 10% hp can still stack 20-30k shields again and be all good for going offencive again, I know this all too well because ive played both playstyles extensively.

SnubbS

catalyst10e wrote: »

How I beat out other sorcs with shield stacking is the same way I beat out mDKs spamming reflective scale... you count to 5 after you see them use it, and then hit them with a CC. Keep the pressure on and you'll be fine.

Any average sorc isn't going to let their shields go down. You should be front-barring Hardened and back-barring curse.

Ch4mpTW

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Just make them crittable and everything will be fine

What? Why? How does 1 even apply critical damage upon a ward or force field of magical energy? That doesn't even sound right. Lol.

olsborg

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Just make them crittable and everything will be fine

What? Why? How does 1 even apply critical damage upon a ward or force field of magical energy? That doesn't even sound right. Lol.

Easy, you headshot the shield...oh wait..

idk

olsborg wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Mainly talking hardened ward+harness magicka and harness magicka+healing ward. Mag builds can spam and stack these to the end of time, kinda annoying imo and has been since beta, will we ever see a change dear zos? Make shields last longer, makes shields abit bigger, but no more stacking pls.

@olsborg

They already shortened the duration of shields just a few months ago. That was the nerf to balancing.

While it was a controversial change it was a good change. Nothing future is needed.

I never had trouble with duration of my shields, i recast them fast anyway because if they lasted longer then 6s the ppl you fight are ....terrible. They way I feel atm is that medium armor is the worst of all the armors, if youre using medium armor you can basicly only kill other medium armor users. If youre heavy armor, you can basicly kill anytning, if youre light armor you can potentiall not be killed at all (as long as you manage resources) This is if players are equally good.
These days I rly love the playstyle of medium armor, mobility and high burst, but it feels like youre playing a nichè because you cant kill good shieldstackers or good heavy armor builds with it.
This isnt absolute, there are ofcourse exceptions to any rule, but I do feel this applies strongly.
Now dont missunderstand this, medium armor playstyle can still kill ppl good, but lets say someone is a top player, hes using medium armor, and hes fighting other top players that are stacking shields or playing heavy armor, hes got very bad odds to come out winning.

@olsborg

I find it humorous that magika users complain about dodge and evasion

Stam users complain about shields.

Not being rude, but what does this say? Some players do not like it when it's a challenge to kill a good player with a good build.

Part of PvP is determining which targets are best for you ask Kenny Rodgers summed that part up well. "You need to know when to walk away, you need to know when to run". For the times when your wasting time on a target.

leepalmer95

What annoys me most about shield stacking is the fact i can burst someone to 3% hp but as soon as they get that first shield up i know that they are going to heal to full and there in nothing i can do about it. It's actually better for me to re apply buffs at that point.

Against a stam build if they don't have a full rally up i can keep pressuring them a lot.


Also the fact shields ignore crit is a bit annoying as it counter so many racial and class passives.

Make shields 8-10s
Reduce the pvp shield nerf by 15-20%
Give shield 1000 crit resist and allow armor + crit resist ti affect shields

Then make shields critable.

Anti_Virus

Koolio wrote: »

Shields are the worse mitigation mechanic to scale against multiple targets. The more targets attacking you the shields can't protect as well. Dodge rolling however is better mitigation against higher numbers. If 10 snipes all are coming at me at the exact same time there no way you will shield all that damage. No matter how hard you stack. But 1 just 1 dodge roll can mitigate 100% damage. Just food for thought.

After your third roll dodge you will be out of stam because the cost will be too high. Additionally not all attacks can be dodged.

Shield stacking on the otherhand has no cost increasing machanic. Just food for thought

FriedEggSandwich

As a sorc I agree, I would love to see the ability to stack harness and hardened removed, and I don't know why other sorcs don't feel the same way. I don't get why sorcs defend shield stacking like they enjoy it lol. Of course hardened would need a size buff to compensate and then sorcs would have 1 less button to push when being defensive. They could even stay at 6s duration because recasting 1 ward every 6s is much easier than recasting 2 wards every 6s. That would be my dream come true. Who doesn't want to push less buttons in a panic?

Koolio

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Shields are the worse mitigation mechanic to scale against multiple targets. The more targets attacking you the shields can't protect as well. Dodge rolling however is better mitigation against higher numbers. If 10 snipes all are coming at me at the exact same time there no way you will shield all that damage. No matter how hard you stack. But 1 just 1 dodge roll can mitigate 100% damage. Just food for thought.

After your third roll dodge you will be out if stam because the cost will be too high. Additionally not all attacks can be dodged.

Shield stacking on the otherhand has no cost increasing machanic. Just food for thought

They make an entire trait on armor just to help with that plus champion plus medium armor Passives. Even a move from undaunted reduced cost(I believe) but shields get 1 Cp area to help and countered by another Cp tree. The cost mechanism for shields is the duration. You have to go more regen/reduction to keep them going especially with longer fights/stronger enemies. Mutagen and vigor has almost same tooltip but one is 1/4 the duration.

olsborg

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

As a sorc I agree, I would love to see the ability to stack harness and hardened removed, and I don't know why other sorcs don't feel the same way. I don't get why sorcs defend shield stacking like they enjoy it lol. Of course hardened would need a size buff to compensate and then sorcs would have 1 less button to push when being defensive. They could even stay at 6s duration because recasting 1 ward every 6s is much easier than recasting 2 wards every 6s. That would be my dream come true. Who doesn't want to push less buttons in a panic?

Agreed, as long as they dont make hardened ward as big as hardened ward+dampen magicka is atm. Half the reduction of shields in cyro and then make them not stack, that would help somewhat imo. Not sure how to go about healing ward if that happened tho.

FriedEggSandwich

olsborg wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

As a sorc I agree, I would love to see the ability to stack harness and hardened removed, and I don't know why other sorcs don't feel the same way. I don't get why sorcs defend shield stacking like they enjoy it lol. Of course hardened would need a size buff to compensate and then sorcs would have 1 less button to push when being defensive. They could even stay at 6s duration because recasting 1 ward every 6s is much easier than recasting 2 wards every 6s. That would be my dream come true. Who doesn't want to push less buttons in a panic?

Agreed, as long as they dont make hardened ward as big as hardened ward+dampen magicka is atm. Half the reduction of shields in cyro and then make them not stack, that would help somewhat imo. Not sure how to go about healing ward if that happened tho.

I'm not sure I would trust myself to suggest a buff to hardened ward but I agree that it should be smaller than stacked shields. I feel like with 40k (ish) mag and cp spent in hardy, ele def, bastion etc. my ward should take 2-3s for a player spec'd for damage to burst down. That's how much time I would like it to buy me while someone was doing as much damage as they could. Right now it takes about 1.5s or less. It would be hard to come up with something everyone was happy with though.

Edit: I think healing ward should remain stackable because I believe casting it under another ward to protect it as much as possible before it expires is tactical gameplay. I realise this is just my opinion, but I think that healing ward would be much less useful as a burst heal if it couldn't be stacked. If healing ward needs to be nerfed it should be a cost increase nerf; it shouldn't be spammable for long imo.