Shields not stacking, when/if/ever?

olsborg

Mainly talking hardened ward+harness magicka and harness magicka+healing ward. Mag builds can spam and stack these to the end of time, kinda annoying imo and has been since beta, will we ever see a change dear zos? Make shields last longer, makes shields abit bigger, but no more stacking pls.

ADarklore

olsborg wrote: »

Mainly talking hardened ward+harness magicka and harness magicka+healing ward. Mag builds can spam and stack these to the end of time, kinda annoying imo and has been since beta, will we ever see a change dear zos? Make shields last longer, makes shields abit bigger, but no more stacking pls.

But, that was their reason for shortening the duration, so as to continue allowing them to stack, but forcing Mages to reapply them much more frequently.

Fvh09NL

Maybe when stam builds can't stack proc sets anymore?

Danksta

Use stuns and immobilizations to drain their stamina and once they can't break CC you burst them down. A stunned opponent isn't stacking anything.

olsborg

Fvh09NL wrote: »

Maybe when stam builds can't stack proc sets anymore?

Procccstacking is asenine mechanic agreed. So is shieldstacking.

olsborg

Danksta wrote: »

Use stuns and immobilizations to drain their stamina and once they can't break CC you burst them down. A stunned opponent isn't stacking anything.

This only works on bad-average players.

kessik221

Theres a set called shield breaker.

olsborg

kessik221 wrote: »

Theres a set called shield breaker.

This is true, but most of the time it just feels cheesy using it, and its 5th set is completely useless vs stambuilds (some stamdk builds is exception)

Minalan

kessik221 wrote: »

Theres a set called shield breaker.

There's also shattering blows CP, it helps even if you can't crit a shield.

DHale

Most good players time the stun at 4 to five seconds. Then they kill the sorc in a second or two. No one Sorc, not even lich runners can stack long when taking damage by more than one player.

Danksta

olsborg wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Use stuns and immobilizations to drain their stamina and once they can't break CC you burst them down. A stunned opponent isn't stacking anything.

This only works on bad-average players.

It works on good players too, just not as well, which it shouldn't. Good players should be harder to kill than bad-average players.

CyrusArya

Fact of the matter is shield stacking will never be removed because placing arbitrary restrictions on what a player can or can't use is against ZOS' design philosophy. More over, for every skilled sorc who can shield stack like clock work there's probably 50 sorcs who without shield stacking would be unable to play the class- resulting in a mass exodus from the class in PvP. Thirdly, shield stacking while powerful in one on one encounters has incredibly diminishing returns when focused by multiple enemies in a way that blocking and dodge roll do not. And finally, the game is balanced around the ability to stack. If they removed it, to maintain the balance, hardened ward would have to be increased tremendously in strength which would then throw off balance elsewhere.

Counters to shield stacking do exist, just because you don't know how doesn't mean the mechanics of the game should be changed. Less QQ more Pew Pew.

olsborg

I used to play magicka sorc alot, like exclusively a while back, I didnt use harness magicka, only hardened ward and the occational healing ward. I did perfectly fine. The annoying thing was when you faced a sorc or other magicka build that stacked 3x shields like crazy, you just couldnt break through it all unless you ran them out of stamina, wich could take anything from 1-5 minutes, and often enough not even then. Without shieldstacking, their skill to survive that easily would be tested for sure, I dont think it would break. But the way it is now when you can go into shieldstackmode is just asenine.

Strider_Roshin

olsborg wrote: »

Fvh09NL wrote: »

Maybe when stam builds can't stack proc sets anymore?

Procccstacking is asenine mechanic agreed. So is shieldstacking.

Both shouldn't exist.

thankyourat

On a light armor build if you don't stack harness magicka with healing ward the person you are fighting will eat right through your healing ward and you won't get the heal. It's basically the same thing as casting vigor and then dodge rolling to get the tics. That form of shield stacking will have to exist or certain magic builds won't be able to get the heal from healing ward. As for sorc shield stacking (only class that can shield stack) I agree it's pretty strong but a single shield is so weak and light armor has such little resistances that if they can't shield stack they would have no way to defend themselves.

mvffins

Making shields last longer might be make be more exploitable than shield stacking in PvP, as it means they can cast another damage skill in place considering a specific time frame, and if the shield is on a separate bar that is 2 more damage skills in place.

ZoS have already took a direction in how they feel about shields in PvP by reducing their size and duration, but shield stacking is not as common as you think since most would prefer to slot a dif skill than a second or third shield.

SpazzmanNDQ

Is it possible to play Mag Sorc without shield stacking? That is the only class I haven't maxed mainly cause I don't want to deal with the shield stacking aspect of it.

I prefer ranged characters over mele but shield stacking annoys me to the point where I'm on the verge of deleting a second sorc in order to roll something else.

Ocelot9x

Just make them crittable and everything will be fine

AnviOfVai

those shields are the only thing keeping me alive, you have 6 seconds to wait for a drop that's all I find my shields are not holding as well in Cyrodiil as they used to, players can get through them easily enough, also when your attacking a player you have to keep remembering to put at least one of the shields up otherwise your dead. I use a pet build in Cyrodiil so you can understand why I need both shields

DannyLV702

Shields should replace themselves, that simple. My main is a magic sorc and I know how stupid it is to stay alive just by spamming hardened ward with harness. And if your health is low, pop a healing ward, then hardened and then harness. It's silly.

Father_X_Zombie

If they remove shield stacking, then here are some things to consider:

1. Hardened ward will need to be buffed, it will need to absorb more damage, and last at least 10-15s

2. Sorcs will have to have another option to sustain against other magic builds, because we rely of of harness to sustain our magicka.

3. Healing ward should not apply to this change

If i didnt have to use up 2 bar sots to stay alive more then a second and constantly swap bars, or have 30 minute fights with other sorcs then that would be great. But until they decide to properly balance shields then that will never happen. The duration nerf was a band-aid fix.

LadyLavina

olsborg wrote: »

Mainly talking hardened ward+harness magicka and harness magicka+healing ward. Mag builds can spam and stack these to the end of time, kinda annoying imo and has been since beta, will we ever see a change dear zos? Make shields last longer, makes shields abit bigger, but no more stacking pls.

I get the feeling you're frustrated by it in pvp. Understandable.

It's not nearly as big of an issue as it used to be , as they've drastically shortened the duration.

The reason for doing that , rather than removing the ability to stack, was because shield stacking is a big part of a lot of builds, not just sorcs/mages. There are also quite a few options at your disposal to make it more difficult for them to continue stacking, such as increase cost poisons, cc, and the cp passive that makes you hit enemies with dmg shields harder. (i think there's one that does that? I'm not in a position to log in at the moment so i can't check.)

You're definitely not the first person to bring this up, but the changes/compromises have been made and the counter measures are in place, so what you're suggesting wont happen.

idk

olsborg wrote: »

Mainly talking hardened ward+harness magicka and harness magicka+healing ward. Mag builds can spam and stack these to the end of time, kinda annoying imo and has been since beta, will we ever see a change dear zos? Make shields last longer, makes shields abit bigger, but no more stacking pls.

@olsborg

They already shortened the duration of shields just a few months ago. That was the nerf to balancing.

While it was a controversial change it was a good change. Nothing future is needed.

Koolio

Shields are the worse mitigation mechanic to scale against multiple targets. The more targets attacking you the shields can't protect as well. Dodge rolling however is better mitigation against higher numbers. If 10 snipes all are coming at me at the exact same time there no way you will shield all that damage. No matter how hard you stack. But 1 just 1 dodge roll can mitigate 100% damage. Just food for thought.

xboxNA corin6

DHale wrote: »

Most good players time the stun at 4 to five seconds. Then they kill the sorc in a second or two. No one Sorc, not even lich runners can stack long when taking damage by more than one player.

QFT

RinaldoGandolphi

Still this?

They only last 6 seconds now, it was an issue when they lasted 20, but not now. Leave it be.

olsborg

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Mainly talking hardened ward+harness magicka and harness magicka+healing ward. Mag builds can spam and stack these to the end of time, kinda annoying imo and has been since beta, will we ever see a change dear zos? Make shields last longer, makes shields abit bigger, but no more stacking pls.

@olsborg

They already shortened the duration of shields just a few months ago. That was the nerf to balancing.

While it was a controversial change it was a good change. Nothing future is needed.

I never had trouble with duration of my shields, i recast them fast anyway because if they lasted longer then 6s the ppl you fight are ....terrible. They way I feel atm is that medium armor is the worst of all the armors, if youre using medium armor you can basicly only kill other medium armor users. If youre heavy armor, you can basicly kill anytning, if youre light armor you can potentiall not be killed at all (as long as you manage resources) This is if players are equally good.
These days I rly love the playstyle of medium armor, mobility and high burst, but it feels like youre playing a nichè because you cant kill good shieldstackers or good heavy armor builds with it.
This isnt absolute, there are ofcourse exceptions to any rule, but I do feel this applies strongly.
Now dont missunderstand this, medium armor playstyle can still kill ppl good, but lets say someone is a top player, hes using medium armor, and hes fighting other top players that are stacking shields or playing heavy armor, hes got very bad odds to come out winning.

LadyLavina

Edit:

Deleted because I'm bad at reading people over text sometimes lol

andreasranasen

Since you LOVE shield stackers. Here's me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUrHkggNtYI

olsborg

LadyLavina wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

if youre using medium armor you can basicly only kill other medium armor users.

Opinion

olsborg wrote: »

If youre heavy armor, you can basicly kill anytning

Also opinion. I wear 7 piece heavy armor and I kill nothing. I'm a brick tank though.

olsborg wrote: »

if youre light armor you can potentiall not be killed at all (as long as you manage resources)

I.m.o bad opinion & somewhat untrue. I feel , respectfully, that there's some bias here.

olsborg wrote: »

These days I rly love the playstyle of medium armor, mobility and high burst, but it feels like youre playing a nichè because *I* cant kill good shieldstackers or good heavy armor builds with it.

Fixed that for you. Badly worded opinion. It's incredibly easy to kill shield stackers if you know what you're doing and don't just mindlessly spam your go-to's against their shields.

olsborg wrote: »

This isnt absolute, there are ofcourse exceptions to any rule, but I do feel this applies strongly.

Damn right its not absolute, that entire post is full of clear bias against shield stacking and I would almost say light armor in general (imo). I can see what you're getting at, but your own discontent with light armor/shield stacking is shining through and unfortunately ruining your points.

olsborg wrote: »

Now dont missunderstand this, medium armor playstyle can still kill ppl good, but lets say someone is a top player, hes using medium armor, and hes fighting other top players that are stacking shields or playing heavy armor, hes got very bad odds to come out winning.

Reeeeally wish you'd not state opinions as facts. It's why you're getting this reply from me. If there had been a lot of imo in there, I'd have stayed silent.

With respect friend, it's clear there's a lack of strategy in general on your part here, which is understandably frustrating you and causing you to make all of these inaccurate statements that you feel are true, but are in fact just your opinion.

I would suggest looking into pvp strategies as it is quite easy to overcome shield stacking as I previously mentioned.

As far as all the statements on armor types, anyone can beat anyone on any given day if they bring the proper build and strategy to the table.

Ofcourse its my opinion, what are forums for if not stating ones opinion? Do I really need to add "imo" into every sentence? My post is my opinion after playing medium armor extensively, while also playing other armors (albeit not as much these days)
Youre basicly quoting snippets of my post and taking it out of context, when I say that heavy armor is strong and you can basicly have great odds at killing any players, ofcourse I dont mean "as a tank". Its dead easy building a hard to kill tank in heavy armor, this isnt what my post is about.
I didnt exactly try to hide my discontent with how shieldstacking is as a game mechanic, Ive logged enough hours on my magicka sorc to know how strong it is, and I find shieldstacking way to powerful. What promped you to think I tried to conceal it?

LadyLavina

@olsborg

A misunderstanding it seems. For whatever reason sometimes my social skills fail over a text based medium. It appears I took the tone of what you were saying the completely wrong way, and I apologize.

Obviously my post will live on through your quote, but i shall delete it