Why am I forced to start the game again to use the new Warden class?

Elsonso

Tandor wrote: »

Making everything account-wide is alt-friendly only for those who don't want to develop their alts by playing them through the whole game and simply want them for end-game, but it is extremely alt-unfriendly for those who regard all their characters as equal and who want to develop them fully on an individual basis rather than simply creating them in a finished state for the end-game.

Not only that, but this tends to be a one way trip. Once you start making achievements and game play account-wide, there is no going back. It is not a matter of options and having some check box to "enable account wide" does not fix it.

ZOS has done right to limit how much this happens.

drakhan2002_ESO

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Hmmm. Personally, I would not use a class change token. I have tried all classes before settling on a Sorcerer. I also roll with just one character.

That said it would not bother me if class change was was implemented. So I have to ask. Why are some people so vehemently against it? I mean what difference does it make to your playing experience if somebody changes their class?

I am not taking any sides here. Am genuinely interested and puzzled why it bothers people so much.

Enlighten me.

You make a good point. I wonder if these one toon wonders even know how much fun it is to play another class? They are probably short-changing themselves and not enjoying the entirety of the game.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Hmmm. Personally, I would not use a class change token. I have tried all classes before settling on a Sorcerer. I also roll with just one character.

That said it would not bother me if class change was was implemented. So I have to ask. Why are some people so vehemently against it? I mean what difference does it make to your playing experience if somebody changes their class?

I am not taking any sides here. Am genuinely interested and puzzled why it bothers people so much.

Enlighten me.

Because some people get really angry if other people a) have different opinions to their own and b) derive fun in a way they disagree with.


All The Best

ThePaleItalian

katiesmith12341 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Mwnci wrote: »

It means that if I want the RS I need to buy the RS.
Just like OP needs to create a new Warden instead of sitting around wishing for class changes because he can't be bothered to level a new character ( there are games that allow this, ie: FF - but ESO is not one of them ).

Class changes don't exist in this game and speculating about it achieves nothing so I won't address it ( just like I didn't in my post ).

Well, you can buy the RS to replace your current car. Why I can't uy the Warden (RS) to replace my actual character (current car)?

Why? Because car analogies don't always work like people think they do.

How many times does a car manufacturer allow people to "upgrade" to the current model year without having to start over with a new car?

ADarklore wrote: »

I love how SO many players only consider 'leveling' the issue... they don't take into consideration collection skyshards, lorebooks, leveling mount skills, and completing all the quests. They think everyone only wants PvE End Game or PvP, they don't think about PvE questers who would rather not have to complete all the quests all over again, hundreds of hours, in order to have a complete character. I cannot think of a new character as 'complete' until I've finished all the quests, which for me starting a new character means starting in Khenarthi's Roost and completing AD zones, EP zones, DC zones, and then on to other DLC content. If I were able to do a class change, I would be able to play a class on my MAIN and not have to spend all these hours and money to repeat everything all over again.

This is the essence of a role playing game, which is what ESO is. Climbing the mountain is part of the purpose of the game.

@Elloa said it right. The game is supposed to be fun. You are supposed to enjoy to start the game again to level a new class.

I expect they will do a character morph shortcut, mainly as a tax on players that have to follow the FotM. They stand to make a lot of money from players after Morrowind comes out, if they allow this. Race change is pretty cheap. I expect that Class change will be much more expensive, given the build importance that this will have.

But I rather not have to REPEAT climbing the same mountain again and again and again. The game is fun. But I hate repeating the same content.

While I agree with your thoughts, that is what an MMO is. I am glad at least with 1Tam that I do not have to do all of DC over and over. I can go anywhere I want, and at least for me, that breaks up the feeling of climbing the same mountain.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

You make a good point. I wonder if these one toon wonders even know how much fun it is to play another class? They are probably short-changing themselves and not enjoying the entirety of the game.

I've played every class through to at least level 35 - respecced all of them at least once to try and find something I enjoyed as much as my main and couldn't.

Took a long break just before IC went live. Came back after hearing many good things about 1T, and deleted everything except my main and one Alt used for holding spare Motifs, and a level 48 Orc DK that I am trying to make work as a type of Shaman.

All The Best

Faulgor

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Hmmm. Personally, I would not use a class change token. I have tried all classes before settling on a Sorcerer. I also roll with just one character.

That said it would not bother me if class change was was implemented. So I have to ask. Why are some people so vehemently against it? I mean what difference does it make to your playing experience if somebody changes their class?

I am not taking any sides here. Am genuinely interested and puzzled why it bothers people so much.

Enlighten me.

That's what I genuinely would like to know, too.
I'd be absolutely ready to make compromises, heck I would change classes even if it left me nothing but the character name and quest progress. But if the other side doesn't give an inch when it doesn't even affect them, discussion gets really difficult.

bowmanz607

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Ok let's get one thing straight. This is not wow, Dota, league, ff, guild wars, Camelot unchained, for honor, everquest, dragon age, or any other game people want to list. This is ESO! Who gives a **** what other games do. This is not them.

Ok let's get another thing straight.

If ESO is around in 11 years (to match WoW's current 12+ year lifespan) then you have a point, until then you really don't.

We should ALL care about what other games are doing if what they are doing is demonstrably better (as in improves the longevity and player retention of the game) than what is currently happening in ESO.

Happy players stick around.
Happy player spend money.

BOTH of these things are 100% essential to ESO's ongoing survival.

If YOU don't want a Class Transfer token fine, don't use one.
If YOU don't want to start a Warden midway through the leveling process fine, start at level 1.

But if offering those things a) makes players happy, b) keeps players playing, and c) generates income for ESO then that is a good thing for us ALL.

Only people who want the game to fail are against such things.

All The Best

You can get those things through various business models. You don't have to use the exact model others use. Everything does not have to be like WoW. What works for one business may not work for another. Heck, I know plenty of people that have played wow for a long period of time and enjoy this setup more. If you want wow, go play that.

I am for anything that makes a player earn it rather than pay for it. That is a poor business model. I already don't care for race change. Class change goes to a whole new level and is just another stepping stone to a pay to win game. You say it makes players happy, I say many players are unhappy about things that are geared toward money grabs. As evidenced by crown crates and what not.

If YOU don't want to grind a new toon then don't.

Offering those things also make players unhappy, makes people want to leave, could lose zenith money from people leaving. I say this because it is just another step towards a game going pay to win which makes people unhappy and want to leave. It is another money grab that makes people want to leave.

ArchMikem

CarbonX wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

You have to do that with all alt classes. Why should warden be different?

Because when I selected the character I have now there was no Warden to select. Now there is, but I can't replace my current character with it.

If you've been just fine not playing the other three classes that your character isn't, then you should be just fine not playing a Warden as well.

Ghost-Shot

Because you haven't leveled one yet?

CapnPhoton

I am not at all interested in grouping with someone at a high level that did not learn their class from the beginning. If they add a snowflake class...oops I mean class change option there would be too many players to avoid grouping with. I would end up never grouping again or leaving entirely.

This has been mentioned before a few times and I had always hoped it would never be a thing.

wolfydog

I don't see why you would want to change your class you invested a couple years in already Im assuming, blindly to a new class.

WhoThenNow7

OP's way of thinking. Why am I forced to create a new character if I have a dragonknight but I want to play nightblade, Templar, or sorcerer? I should have the option to switch classes any time I choose! Why are you forcing me to not play a different class ZOS why!?!?!?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You can get those things through various business models. You don't have to use the exact model others use. Everything does not have to be like WoW. What works for one business may not work for another. Heck, I know plenty of people that have played wow for a long period of time and enjoy this setup more. If you want wow, go play that.

The "if you want wow, go play wow" argument is so weak, it really is.

I have played in WoW in the past. But I enjoy the setting in ESO more, I like that faster more fluid combat. I much prefer the graphical style, the world building, the fact that NPC have voices that match their words. The audioscape of ESO is totally impressive as well. From the ambient noise of wildlife to the stunningly sounding thunderstorms.

I don't want ESO to be "just like WoW" - I want it to be better than that.

But I do think there are some lessons ESO can learn from WoW.
I also think there are some lessons ESO could learn from LOTRO - Cosmetics and Player Music for example.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I am for anything that makes a player earn it rather than pay for it. That is a poor business model. I already don't care for race change. Class change goes to a whole new level and is just another stepping stone to a pay to win game. You say it makes players happy, I say many players are unhappy about things that are geared toward money grabs. As evidenced by crown crates and what not.

Offering a service (Race Change / Class Change) is NOT pay-to-win; it's not even a "cash grab" - it's a service.

I agree with your concerns about Crown Crates and will never use them.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Offering those things also make players unhappy, makes people want to leave, could lose zenith money from people leaving. I say this because it is just another step towards a game going pay to win which makes people unhappy and want to leave. It is another money grab that makes people want to leave.

This is illogical in the extreme.

If they offer a service and you don't want to use it then don't use it... ...simples.

How does me hypothetically changing my Character from (for example) a Nord Templar to an Orc Warden affect you in any way? It doesn't... ...end of.

I don't PvP in MMORPGs (I genuinely think they are the wrong platform for genuine player skill based balanced PvP). But I don't throw a temper tantrum and claim I want to quit the game because PvP is offered to those player that want to use it.

All The Best

Brutusmax1mus

It better come with more character slots then. I'm maxed and don't think deleting a character is a fair thing for zos to be asking if i want to play warden.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

CapnPhoton wrote: »

I am not at all interested in grouping with someone at a high level that did not learn their class from the beginning. If they add a snowflake class...oops I mean class change option there would be too many players to avoid grouping with. I would end up never grouping again or leaving entirely.

This has been mentioned before a few times and I had always hoped it would never be a thing.

I've been in groups with CP500+ players who obviously leveled from Level 1 and still don't know how to play their class.

So your point is wholly invalid.

All The Best

Takes-No-Prisoner

I got 8 out of 12 character slots filled. I was very careful with selecting/brain storming the build I wanted to play for each one of those character slots. Each of these 8 characters on my account have lv10 Mages Guild where applicable, lv10 Fighters Guild and a boat load of skill points. So deleting them it out of the question, as I made them for very specific builds and roles I prefer to play. So to me creating new characters is something I take pretty seriously. It's a huge time investment and everything needs to match up perfectly. Cause, they are like my children representing me on Tamriel.


So to me, starting over from scratch for a Warden for me is great. I do not plan on leveling any new characters til this update comes out. Then I'll give this future character all the tender love and care they need! Looking forward to my journey with her when she is born.

Nymirah

I don't understand why some players become so angry when new things are added to a game. First, because they seem to think all content is obligatory, and second, because they are complaining about actually having to play the game...

What are they here for if they do not enjoy playing the game?

bowmanz607

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You can get those things through various business models. You don't have to use the exact model others use. Everything does not have to be like WoW. What works for one business may not work for another. Heck, I know plenty of people that have played wow for a long period of time and enjoy this setup more. If you want wow, go play that.

The "if you want wow" argument is so weak, it really is.

I have played in WoW in the past. But I enjoy the setting in ESO more, I like that faster more fluid combat. I much prefer the graphical style, the world building, the fact that NPC have voices that match their words. The audioscape of ESO is totally impressive as well. From the ambient noise of wildlife to the stunningly sounding thunderstorms.

I don't want ESO to be "just like WoW" - I want it to be better than that.

But I do think there are some lessons ESO can learn from WoW.
I also think there are some lessons ESO could learn from LOTRO - Cosmetics and Player Music for example.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I am for anything that makes a player earn it rather than pay for it. That is a poor business model. I already don't care for race change. Class change goes to a whole new level and is just another stepping stone to a pay to win game. You say it makes players happy, I say many players are unhappy about things that are geared toward money grabs. As evidenced by crown crates and what not.

Offering a service (Race Change / Class Change) is NOT pay-to-win; it's not even a "cash grab" - it's a service.

I agree with your concerns about Crown Crates and will never use them.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Offering those things also make players unhappy, makes people want to leave, could lose zenith money from people leaving. I say this because it is just another step towards a game going pay to win which makes people unhappy and want to leave. It is another money grab that makes people want to leave.

This is illogical in the extreme.

If they offer a service and you don't want to use it then don't use it... ...simples.

How does me hypothetically changing my Character from (for example) a Nord Templar to an Orc Warden affect you in any way? It doesn't... ...end of.

I don't PvP in MMORPGs (I genuinely think they are the wrong platform for genuine player skill based balanced PvP). But I don't throw a temper tantrum and claim I want to quit the game because PvP is offered to those player that want to use it.

All The Best

I agree it is not pay to win. It is a stepping stone in that direction. You allow people to pay for something that takes lots of time to achieve in the game.

And yes it would absolutely be a cash grab. Don't chalk this up to services. By that logic, a pay to win game is simply just offering a service you can choose to use or not. That is a crazy argument.

It will have an effect on the game. Currently when a class is more powerful then others you have to be willing to grind that class up if you don't have it. Not just for class abilities but other things like undaunted and alliance and all that. So it makes you work for your change if you want to run fotm which will deter people from doing it. If we allow class change, every update you will just see a ton of one class cause people are switching no problem. That does effect the game.

CaptainVenom

CarbonX wrote: »

Everyone is "Wow! Warden! New class! OMG! So cool! Warden! Wow!"... ... ...

I only use one character and I do everything with him in the game, from PvE, to PvP, to try go get all achievements in the game, etc.

So, new content is coming, I have to pay for it if I want it, but I'm forced to put my current character aside and play all the game again if I want to use the Warden? Why? (I know Morrowind has a lot of stuff to do, but this thread points to the use of the new class only).

Why I can't have an option to use the Warden with the character I have now (class change)?

Why am I forced to start the game from scratch and repeat all I have been doing for +2 years if I want to play with the Warden?

Or, am I also forced to create a Warden character, don't do any PvE (well, forcedly some to level it up) and use it for PvP only?

Why this game forces people to have more than one character and so do all things over again?

How I see things; ZOS doesn't think nor cares for players that play just one character.

Class change please, even if with crowns.

You sound like leveling up to 50 takes years. Please, It's possible to achieve lv50 in 7 days or less. You don't even need to level up CP. The only bad part on creating a new character is the mount upgrade.

Damn, sometimes ESO community is just a bunch of whiners.

TequilaFire

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Because of Cadwell's Silver and Gold there is no clearly separate leveling route in ESO as there is in for example WoW across the factions, heck even the races have different starting zones.

So if you have a character already at CP160+ the chances are there is no open-world leveling content you have not already done.

So unless Morrowind has enough content to level a Warden from Level 1 to CP160 players will be forced to play content that they have already done, probably more than once.

Rinse repeat of old content gets boring, bored players stop spending money.
Heck that is the prime reason we are getting Morrowind in the first place - to stop players getting so bored they stop spendng money.

So to throw them back into the boredom of old, old content makes no sense at all.

That is why a single class change token is appropriate.

The alternative is to look at what the market leading MMORPG does when it adds a new class. Over the period I played WoW they introduced two new classes.

Death Knight started at, IIRC, level 50, when the cap was level 60.
Demon Hunter started at level 98, when the cap was 110.

They are upping the CP cap anyway, but as CP is shared that really doesn't make any difference.

So I would suggest the appropriate alternative to a class change token is to allow players to create a Warden at something like level 35 - roughly about where they would be had the just finished their starting faction main story arc in Pre-1T.

Assume they picked up all Skyshards and Lorebooks for that region's content, and give them a basic set of Green quality gear.

That still means they need to farm crafting advances, mount upgrades, motifs etc; but gives them a head start on skipping already very old content.

EDIT: While typing that up another poster posted another way of dealing with this:

TequilaFire wrote: »

I am of the opinion that completing Cadwell's gold on at least one character should unlock mount leveling, crafting, alliance rank, skyshards and all achievements on all characters once they reach level 50.

In hindsight, I think I prefer @TequilaFire 's idea.

All The Best

Ok let's get one thing straight. This is not wow, Dota, league, ff, guild wars, Camelot unchained, for honor, everquest, dragon age, or any other game people want to list. This is ESO! Who gives a **** what other games do. This is not them.

Also, if you are an older player that has done content, then you have the cp. You need only to get to level 50. With 30+ hours of game play that should not be an issue. Heck you can grind a toon to that in like 4 hours if you really want to. Even casually grinding can do in 2 days. So this idea of needing enough content to get to 160 really doesn't matter. Plus it will be even easier to get to 160 anyways since the cap increased (likely) will make it even easier then homestead.

Sure wish the bolded part applied to those touting other MMO's charge subs for expansions applied to ESO then.
Sure would shoot down this is an MMO and how it's done crowd.

edit for spelling

The_Lex

"Forced" to start over? Does ZOS have a gun to your head?

DHale

I have 12 max toons don't feel sorry for anyone who has to grind.

subtlezeroub17_ESO

I swear some of the conplaints on this forums sound like tantrums from people who have never played an mmorpg except from this before. xD

Dragonnord

The_Patriarch wrote: »

"Forced" to start over? Does ZOS have a gun to your head?

You don't get the general idea of the post, don't you? No, you don't.

Dragonnord

CaptainVenom wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Everyone is "Wow! Warden! New class! OMG! So cool! Warden! Wow!"... ... ...

I only use one character and I do everything with him in the game, from PvE, to PvP, to try go get all achievements in the game, etc.

So, new content is coming, I have to pay for it if I want it, but I'm forced to put my current character aside and play all the game again if I want to use the Warden? Why? (I know Morrowind has a lot of stuff to do, but this thread points to the use of the new class only).

Why I can't have an option to use the Warden with the character I have now (class change)?

Why am I forced to start the game from scratch and repeat all I have been doing for +2 years if I want to play with the Warden?

Or, am I also forced to create a Warden character, don't do any PvE (well, forcedly some to level it up) and use it for PvP only?

Why this game forces people to have more than one character and so do all things over again?

How I see things; ZOS doesn't think nor cares for players that play just one character.

Class change please, even if with crowns.

You sound like leveling up to 50 takes years. Please, It's possible to achieve lv50 in 7 days or less. You don't even need to level up CP. The only bad part on creating a new character is the mount upgrade.

Damn, sometimes ESO community is just a bunch of whiners.

What part of "I use only one character, don't use alts, and so would like to have the Warden on my current and only toon" you don't understand? My God! Is it really that difficult for some of you?

CaptainVenom

CarbonX wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Everyone is "Wow! Warden! New class! OMG! So cool! Warden! Wow!"... ... ...

I only use one character and I do everything with him in the game, from PvE, to PvP, to try go get all achievements in the game, etc.

So, new content is coming, I have to pay for it if I want it, but I'm forced to put my current character aside and play all the game again if I want to use the Warden? Why? (I know Morrowind has a lot of stuff to do, but this thread points to the use of the new class only).

Why I can't have an option to use the Warden with the character I have now (class change)?

Why am I forced to start the game from scratch and repeat all I have been doing for +2 years if I want to play with the Warden?

Or, am I also forced to create a Warden character, don't do any PvE (well, forcedly some to level it up) and use it for PvP only?

Why this game forces people to have more than one character and so do all things over again?

How I see things; ZOS doesn't think nor cares for players that play just one character.

Class change please, even if with crowns.

You sound like leveling up to 50 takes years. Please, It's possible to achieve lv50 in 7 days or less. You don't even need to level up CP. The only bad part on creating a new character is the mount upgrade.

Damn, sometimes ESO community is just a bunch of whiners.

What part of "I use only one character, don't use alts, and so would like to have the Warden on my current and only toon" you don't understand? My God! Is it really that difficult for some of you?

If ZOS doesn't start a class change service, get over it. Nobody cares if you don't want to create a new character because of who-knows-what's-your-problem.

TequilaFire

For those who reply it takes no time to level to 50 that is not the issue.
It takes avery long time to unlock riding and crafting skill which is necessary to even craft furniture in housing.
Ever try to ride across Cyrodiil on a level 10 mount even though your character has reached lvl 50 CP160?
Achievements account wide are the real issue.

bowmanz607

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You can get those things through various business models. You don't have to use the exact model others use. Everything does not have to be like WoW. What works for one business may not work for another. Heck, I know plenty of people that have played wow for a long period of time and enjoy this setup more. If you want wow, go play that.

The "if you want wow" argument is so weak, it really is.

I have played in WoW in the past. But I enjoy the setting in ESO more, I like that faster more fluid combat. I much prefer the graphical style, the world building, the fact that NPC have voices that match their words. The audioscape of ESO is totally impressive as well. From the ambient noise of wildlife to the stunningly sounding thunderstorms.

I don't want ESO to be "just like WoW" - I want it to be better than that.

But I do think there are some lessons ESO can learn from WoW.
I also think there are some lessons ESO could learn from LOTRO - Cosmetics and Player Music for example.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I am for anything that makes a player earn it rather than pay for it. That is a poor business model. I already don't care for race change. Class change goes to a whole new level and is just another stepping stone to a pay to win game. You say it makes players happy, I say many players are unhappy about things that are geared toward money grabs. As evidenced by crown crates and what not.

Offering a service (Race Change / Class Change) is NOT pay-to-win; it's not even a "cash grab" - it's a service.

I agree with your concerns about Crown Crates and will never use them.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Offering those things also make players unhappy, makes people want to leave, could lose zenith money from people leaving. I say this because it is just another step towards a game going pay to win which makes people unhappy and want to leave. It is another money grab that makes people want to leave.

This is illogical in the extreme.

If they offer a service and you don't want to use it then don't use it... ...simples.

How does me hypothetically changing my Character from (for example) a Nord Templar to an Orc Warden affect you in any way? It doesn't... ...end of.

I don't PvP in MMORPGs (I genuinely think they are the wrong platform for genuine player skill based balanced PvP). But I don't throw a temper tantrum and claim I want to quit the game because PvP is offered to those player that want to use it.

All The Best

CarbonX wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Everyone is "Wow! Warden! New class! OMG! So cool! Warden! Wow!"... ... ...

I only use one character and I do everything with him in the game, from PvE, to PvP, to try go get all achievements in the game, etc.

So, new content is coming, I have to pay for it if I want it, but I'm forced to put my current character aside and play all the game again if I want to use the Warden? Why? (I know Morrowind has a lot of stuff to do, but this thread points to the use of the new class only).

Why I can't have an option to use the Warden with the character I have now (class change)?

Why am I forced to start the game from scratch and repeat all I have been doing for +2 years if I want to play with the Warden?

Or, am I also forced to create a Warden character, don't do any PvE (well, forcedly some to level it up) and use it for PvP only?

Why this game forces people to have more than one character and so do all things over again?

How I see things; ZOS doesn't think nor cares for players that play just one character.

Class change please, even if with crowns.

You sound like leveling up to 50 takes years. Please, It's possible to achieve lv50 in 7 days or less. You don't even need to level up CP. The only bad part on creating a new character is the mount upgrade.

Damn, sometimes ESO community is just a bunch of whiners.

What part of "I use only one character, don't use alts, and so would like to have the Warden on my current and only toon" you don't understand? My God! Is it really that difficult for some of you?

So every time something new comes along you want a token to change it? How about no.

bowmanz607

TequilaFire wrote: »

For those who reply it takes no time to level to 50 that is not the issue.
It takes avery long time to unlock riding and crafting skill which is necessary to even craft furniture in housing.
Ever try to ride across Cyrodiil on a level 10 mount even though your character has reached lvl 50 CP160?
Achievements account wide are the real issue.

This is why they won't give a coin imo. At least in part. All the money the lose on having people by xp scrolls, Mount lessons, etc.

Agobi

Short answer; because this game does not have class changes . The end.

Shoould they have,or will they have at some point ...only time will tell.