Why am I forced to start the game again to use the new Warden class?

AnviOfVai

LordGavus wrote: »

katiesmith12341 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

katiesmith12341 wrote: »

Well they could offer a start off at 160 champ for the warden? (of course it will need to be paid for) Some player's don't actually get a lot of time to level characters and it can take months. I can understand the frustration of leveling a character from the beginning up again...OR they could allow class switch on a character you already have leveled up..but in this situation you are kind of stuck... but if they did allow class switch, you could always switch it back again...however this still does not help the fact you will need to level out your skill line from the beginning. I am now champ 414 and that has taken me 2 years, but I do have numerous characters I play...although i normally just stick with the 3 at level 50 now. I am also a PVP player so I understand exactly what you are saying.

while I'm not opposed to the idea of buying a level 50 alt (assuming the main was at least 50), it takes ~10 hours to grind from 1 to 50 so trying to say it takes months is a bit of a stretch.

You said the word "grind" Grinding in a game is never fun in my opinion, to be honest I despise it.. I have done it...and I loose interest very quickly.

The point is when the game released you had a new story. You had characters you could explore on and level with different stories with different factions. That made leveling fun.

What level does Morrowind allow you to start at? if it is like a full brand new game and you can start morrowind at level 1 then cool thats fine, I probably would love going through the story that way. But if I had to re-do the eso story again to get my leveling/grind to play morrowind... my interest plummets. As I said I would love to play the Warden class but once I play morrowind's story once its back to PVP again.

I remember having to level my Vet characters, the fact that i had a Vet 7 at the time and a Vet 4 was great seeing that my other Vet was getting shoved up to my highest level. Win.

All I am seeing in my head is this little level 1 character and me thinking:

Grinding is no good. But it does look like you can start Morrowind with a level 1.

From welcome to 2017:

Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one.

If I can start Morrowind at level 1 great

KochDerDamonen

Valencer wrote: »

I like how we know nothing about the new Warden class besides "Ice magic and bears" and people are acting like this is the class they were destined to play and that it's somehow a crime against humanity that you cant change your main character's class to it.

I knew even less about templar when I chose it.

danno8

I would be fine with class change in the crown store. However given the amount of content you would be skipping and the potentially huge convenience of not having to collect all those Skyshards, Lorebooks, etc it would have to be pretty expensive.

7500 crowns minimum.

ADarklore

I love how SO many players only consider 'leveling' the issue... they don't take into consideration collection skyshards, lorebooks, leveling mount skills, and completing all the quests. They think everyone only wants PvE End Game or PvP, they don't think about PvE questers who would rather not have to complete all the quests all over again, hundreds of hours, in order to have a complete character. I cannot think of a new character as 'complete' until I've finished all the quests, which for me starting a new character means starting in Khenarthi's Roost and completing AD zones, EP zones, DC zones, and then on to other DLC content. If I were able to do a class change, I would be able to play a class on my MAIN and not have to spend all these hours and money to repeat everything all over again. Of course, ZOS sees that as a means of making money, the more hours you spend in game the more likely you are to spend money, but they could also make a LOT of money by offering a class change for 5000 Crown. I wouldn't even complain about having to re-level skills because that's easy enough to do. DCUO offers the ability to change powers, albeit their skill system are much more simplified, but ZOS could do it if they wanted... much like they could offer us the ability to dye weapons... it's just they are being stubborn and egocentric in not doing so; "We (the devs) don't think it should be in the game" instead of "the players really want this so let's give the players what they're asking for."

Krileon

ADarklore wrote: »

I love how SO many players only consider 'leveling' the issue... they don't take into consideration collection skyshards, lorebooks, leveling mount skills, and completing all the quests. They think everyone only wants PvE End Game or PvP, they don't think about PvE questers who would rather not have to complete all the quests all over again, hundreds of hours, in order to have a complete character. I cannot think of a new character as 'complete' until I've finished all the quests, which for me starting a new character means starting in Khenarthi's Roost and completing AD zones, EP zones, DC zones, and then on to other DLC content. If I were able to do a class change, I would be able to play a class on my MAIN and not have to spend all these hours and money to repeat everything all over again. Of course, ZOS sees that as a means of making money, the more hours you spend in game the more likely you are to spend money, but they could also make a LOT of money by offering a class change for 5000 Crown. I wouldn't even complain about having to re-level skills because that's easy enough to do. DCUO offers the ability to change powers, albeit their skill system are much more simplified, but ZOS could do it if they wanted... much like they could offer us the ability to dye weapons... it's just they are being stubborn and egocentric in not doing so; "We (the devs) don't think it should be in the game" instead of "the players really want this so let's give the players what they're asking for."

Completely agree. If I decide the warden is better than my sorc (I like pet classes and use pet builds) then I'll be pretty bummed if there's no class change token. I've learned, now gone, crown store motifs on my sorc and many other things that I don't want to do again if deciding to switch my main character. I think a class change token should be released with the expansion.

Peoples argument against class change is "they'll just ruin PVP by constantly changing to meta builds!". It's simple. Make it cost 6000 crowns and you can only change a characters class once a month. Tada.

RavenSworn

I can't even... Seriously? The level of entitlement astounds me. Ha. Ha. Ha. Really?

There are things you can do with and things you can do without. You don't have to play the warden class to play morrowind. And you sure as hell need a new character if you want to play another class. The least you would have is four characters right now. Fifth for the warden.

You have 8 slots.

strikeback1247

I'm fine with ZoS allowing a class change in the crown store if:

- All experience in every skill line is reset
- Skyshards are reset
- Level is reset to 1

lardvader

CarbonX wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Race change used to not exist, and it does now.

This.

Many goes bla, bla, bla with "This will never happen", "That will never happen", "That is IMPOSSIBLE to happen", and then, time later, they eat their words.

I've seen that in video games for years! That many assure thing will never happen and then, boom! Implemented.

Many here think they are gods of the forums, that know everything, but they don't know a thing...

True - things change and I think we will get the chance to change class over time. Maybe even change alliance.

However I don't think this will happen during 2017 and I would not hold my breath and wait for this change if you want to play warden in June.

But yes things change and I just think it is a matter of time.

ADarklore

strikeback1247 wrote: »

I'm fine with ZoS allowing a class change in the crown store if:

- All experience in every skill line is reset
- Skyshards are reset
- Level is reset to 1

I'm certainly glad YOU are not designing content or making decisions for ESO!

AzuraKin

Elloa wrote: »

I'm sorry @CarbonX, but what you are saying make no sense. In every game (except FFXIV which has a system of multiclasses) if you want to play another class, you need to play another character.
New class is added, you CAN, if you so WISH, to create a new character and enjoy it.

The game is supposed to be fun. You are supposed to enjoy to start the game again to level a new class. Playing ESO is not supposed to be a chore. And if you do not enjoy it, DO NOT DO IT! I'm pretty sure you have other stuff more important in your life to focus on than leveling or not leveling a new character in a video game.

Take care of yourself! Peace!

Elloa wrote: »

I'm sorry @CarbonX, but what you are saying make no sense. In every game (except FFXIV which has a system of multiclasses) if you want to play another class, you need to play another character.
New class is added, you CAN, if you so WISH, to create a new character and enjoy it.

The game is supposed to be fun. You are supposed to enjoy to start the game again to level a new class. Playing ESO is not supposed to be a chore. And if you do not enjoy it, DO NOT DO IT! I'm pretty sure you have other stuff more important in your life to focus on than leveling or not leveling a new character in a video game.

Take care of yourself! Peace!

lol that is actually misguided. unless you a masochist, you do not find mindless grinding fun. yet to enjoy the game you need strong gear which is locked behind gear grinding.

Nic727

ADarklore wrote: »

I love how SO many players only consider 'leveling' the issue... they don't take into consideration collection skyshards, lorebooks, leveling mount skills, and completing all the quests. They think everyone only wants PvE End Game or PvP, they don't think about PvE questers who would rather not have to complete all the quests all over again, hundreds of hours, in order to have a complete character. I cannot think of a new character as 'complete' until I've finished all the quests, which for me starting a new character means starting in Khenarthi's Roost and completing AD zones, EP zones, DC zones, and then on to other DLC content. If I were able to do a class change, I would be able to play a class on my MAIN and not have to spend all these hours and money to repeat everything all over again. Of course, ZOS sees that as a means of making money, the more hours you spend in game the more likely you are to spend money, but they could also make a LOT of money by offering a class change for 5000 Crown. I wouldn't even complain about having to re-level skills because that's easy enough to do. DCUO offers the ability to change powers, albeit their skill system are much more simplified, but ZOS could do it if they wanted... much like they could offer us the ability to dye weapons... it's just they are being stubborn and egocentric in not doing so; "We (the devs) don't think it should be in the game" instead of "the players really want this so let's give the players what they're asking for."

+1000

strikeback1247

ADarklore wrote: »

strikeback1247 wrote: »

I'm fine with ZoS allowing a class change in the crown store if:

- All experience in every skill line is reset
- Skyshards are reset
- Level is reset to 1

I'm certainly glad YOU are not designing content or making decisions for ESO!

I thought it was a pretty fair idea :^)

Valencer

So some people in this thread have their own quirky idea of how the game should be played and then try to blame the fact there's no system in the game catering to their specific needs on the devs being "egocentric" (heh) and/or "not caring about them".

Im one of those people who has a "main" character (and in all honesty, Ive probably invested more hours into her than some of you have into your main characters) and I don't see the point in this. Even though I dont really enjoy playing her much anymore in certain parts of the game, I still accept that Dragonknight is the class Ive invested myself into for thousands of hours, and thats the class on which Ive earned everything I have. Should people really be able to class change and get some of the highest achievements in the game like Dro-m'athra Destroyer and Grand Overlord on classes theyve literally only spent 10 minutes on?

If you want to invest enough time into the warden class to make that your new main character then you can go ahead and start doing that in june, but you havent earned a thing with that class yet... better learn to deal with it.

Pangnirtung

LOL at the OP.

Does EVERYTHING in the game have to be immediate?

Please can we have people realize that they actually need to earn or new things in game?

Entitlement. The bane of today.

Dragonnord

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Please can we have people realize that they actually need to earn or new things in game?

Really? Then why some things are instantly and only sold on crown store insted of "earn them in game"?

BalticBlues

Elloa wrote: »

@CarbonX, but what you are saying make no sense.
[...]The game is supposed to be fun.
You are supposed to enjoy to start the game again to level a new class.

Sorry Elloa, but what you are saying is making "no sense". For many people it is not "fun" and "enjoyment" at all having to start all over again. And again. And again. I am already fed up leveling up a 2nd character. It took me months to grind all the quests, all the undaunted missions, all the lore books, all the PvP etc. etc. again for being able to play another class with everything needed. I will not do this again.

So for me, as for the OP the new class is a waste in the current form.
I would like to play it, but I will not grind months again to get all necessary things.

ZOS, please make all achievements account wide.
One unlock of undaunted, Mages Guild, PvP skills etc. etc. should be enough.
Having to grind all this another time is not fun at all.

FUN MEANS ENTERTAINMENT - NOT REPETITION... AGAIN... AND AGAIN... AND AGAIN.

AnviOfVai

ADarklore wrote: »

I love how SO many players only consider 'leveling' the issue... they don't take into consideration collection skyshards, lorebooks, leveling mount skills, and completing all the quests. They think everyone only wants PvE End Game or PvP, they don't think about PvE questers who would rather not have to complete all the quests all over again, hundreds of hours, in order to have a complete character. I cannot think of a new character as 'complete' until I've finished all the quests, which for me starting a new character means starting in Khenarthi's Roost and completing AD zones, EP zones, DC zones, and then on to other DLC content. If I were able to do a class change, I would be able to play a class on my MAIN and not have to spend all these hours and money to repeat everything all over again. Of course, ZOS sees that as a means of making money, the more hours you spend in game the more likely you are to spend money, but they could also make a LOT of money by offering a class change for 5000 Crown. I wouldn't even complain about having to re-level skills because that's easy enough to do. DCUO offers the ability to change powers, albeit their skill system are much more simplified, but ZOS could do it if they wanted... much like they could offer us the ability to dye weapons... it's just they are being stubborn and egocentric in not doing so; "We (the devs) don't think it should be in the game" instead of "the players really want this so let's give the players what they're asking for."

Thank you oh awesome god man.

Elsonso

CarbonX wrote: »

Mwnci wrote: »

It means that if I want the RS I need to buy the RS.
Just like OP needs to create a new Warden instead of sitting around wishing for class changes because he can't be bothered to level a new character ( there are games that allow this, ie: FF - but ESO is not one of them ).

Class changes don't exist in this game and speculating about it achieves nothing so I won't address it ( just like I didn't in my post ).

Well, you can buy the RS to replace your current car. Why I can't uy the Warden (RS) to replace my actual character (current car)?

Why? Because car analogies don't always work like people think they do.

How many times does a car manufacturer allow people to "upgrade" to the current model year without having to start over with a new car?

ADarklore wrote: »

I love how SO many players only consider 'leveling' the issue... they don't take into consideration collection skyshards, lorebooks, leveling mount skills, and completing all the quests. They think everyone only wants PvE End Game or PvP, they don't think about PvE questers who would rather not have to complete all the quests all over again, hundreds of hours, in order to have a complete character. I cannot think of a new character as 'complete' until I've finished all the quests, which for me starting a new character means starting in Khenarthi's Roost and completing AD zones, EP zones, DC zones, and then on to other DLC content. If I were able to do a class change, I would be able to play a class on my MAIN and not have to spend all these hours and money to repeat everything all over again.

This is the essence of a role playing game, which is what ESO is. Climbing the mountain is part of the purpose of the game.

@Elloa said it right. The game is supposed to be fun. You are supposed to enjoy to start the game again to level a new class.

I expect they will do a character morph shortcut, mainly as a tax on players that have to follow the FotM. They stand to make a lot of money from players after Morrowind comes out, if they allow this. Race change is pretty cheap. I expect that Class change will be much more expensive, given the build importance that this will have.

AnviOfVai

lordrichter wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Mwnci wrote: »

It means that if I want the RS I need to buy the RS.
Just like OP needs to create a new Warden instead of sitting around wishing for class changes because he can't be bothered to level a new character ( there are games that allow this, ie: FF - but ESO is not one of them ).

Class changes don't exist in this game and speculating about it achieves nothing so I won't address it ( just like I didn't in my post ).

Well, you can buy the RS to replace your current car. Why I can't uy the Warden (RS) to replace my actual character (current car)?

Why? Because car analogies don't always work like people think they do.

How many times does a car manufacturer allow people to "upgrade" to the current model year without having to start over with a new car?

ADarklore wrote: »

I love how SO many players only consider 'leveling' the issue... they don't take into consideration collection skyshards, lorebooks, leveling mount skills, and completing all the quests. They think everyone only wants PvE End Game or PvP, they don't think about PvE questers who would rather not have to complete all the quests all over again, hundreds of hours, in order to have a complete character. I cannot think of a new character as 'complete' until I've finished all the quests, which for me starting a new character means starting in Khenarthi's Roost and completing AD zones, EP zones, DC zones, and then on to other DLC content. If I were able to do a class change, I would be able to play a class on my MAIN and not have to spend all these hours and money to repeat everything all over again.

This is the essence of a role playing game, which is what ESO is. Climbing the mountain is part of the purpose of the game.

@Elloa said it right. The game is supposed to be fun. You are supposed to enjoy to start the game again to level a new class.

I expect they will do a character morph shortcut, mainly as a tax on players that have to follow the FotM. They stand to make a lot of money from players after Morrowind comes out, if they allow this. Race change is pretty cheap. I expect that Class change will be much more expensive, given the build importance that this will have.

But I rather not have to REPEAT climbing the same mountain again and again and again. The game is fun. But I hate repeating the same content.

jedtb16_ESO

CarbonX wrote: »

Everyone is "Wow! Warden! New class! OMG! So cool! Warden! Wow!"... ... ...

I only use one character and I do everything with him in the game, from PvE, to PvP, to try go get all achievements in the game, etc.

So, new content is coming, I have to pay for it if I want it, but I'm forced to put my current character aside and play all the game again if I want to use the Warden? Why? (I know Morrowind has a lot of stuff to do, but this thread points to the use of the new class only).

Why I can't have an option to use the Warden with the character I have now (class change)?

Why am I forced to start the game from scratch and repeat all I have been doing for +2 years if I want to play with the Warden?

Or, am I also forced to create a Warden character, don't do any PvE (well, forcedly some to level it up) and use it for PvP only?

Why this game forces people to have more than one character and so do all things over again?

How I see things; ZOS doesn't think nor cares for players that play just one character.

Class change please, even if with crowns.

there's that word again...... forced.

forced???

all you can do is watch the precious snowflakes wailing and gnashing their teeth about being 'forced' to do things...

and laugh

Dragonnord

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

there's that word again...... forced.

forced???

all you can do is watch the precious snowflakes wailing and gnashing their teeth about being 'forced' to do things...

and laugh

I feel bad about you. Do not waste your time trying to understand, please, since it's clear you won't get there...

olsborg

MythicEmperor wrote: »

You aren't "forced" to do anything. You don't have to make a warden char, let alone buy it. If you don't want to lvl a new char, which takes hardly any time, then don't.

The leveling of new chars aint the problem imo, even if I disagree with the OPs post on account of warden. But making new chars means maxing out mages guild, fighters guild, all the other skill trees and morpsh, alliance skills and undaunted and the skills within that again, not to mention a plethura of different world skills and I havent even touched on achievments. Its a biga.s.s grind. That you have to do all over again and again on new chars.

Wifeaggro13

MythicEmperor wrote: »

You aren't "forced" to do anything. You don't have to make a warden char, let alone buy it. If you don't want to lvl a new char, which takes hardly any time, then don't.

Well said. But Zos dug this pit themselves when they decided to market and design this game for the solo churn barbie doll player base. The participation trophie generation his hit the MMO genre pretty hard. That and corporate greed feeding off their need for everything now. The catch was they didn't expect this generation to demand everything now for free lol

Asardes

The same reason you are required to start over if you want to play Sorcerer, Templar or Nighblade if you have a DK.

Faulgor

Valencer wrote: »

I like how we know nothing about the new Warden class besides "Ice magic and bears" and people are acting like this is the class they were destined to play and that it's somehow a crime against humanity that you cant change your main character's class to it.

I tried to make an ice warrior work since a few months after release. I've found something that is at least partially enjoyable, but it's not on the same level as lightning (Sorcerer) or fire (DK) builds. So the addition of a frost skill line should make me happy, right?
Except I will not be able to use them on the character I have groomed for this exact purpose for years.



If Iceheart + Briarheart set doesn't scream Warden, I don't know what does.

Rerolling a character might work in other games, where a max level character is effectively maxed out. This is not the case in ESO. There are just too many progression systems as part of the character system that rerolling becomes unfeasible after a certain point.

• Skill lines, especially ones that take a long time or are difficult to level (Mages Guild, Undaunted, Alliance War, Soul Magic, Vampire, Werewolf, etc)
• Collecting Skyshards. While "merely" extremely tiresome on PC, without addons on consoles this is also annoying and inherently un-fun.
• Other sources of skill points. Quests, public dungeons, group dungeons.
• Crafting professions, especially research and motif knowledge can take longer than a year to master.
• Inventory upgrades. Upgrading to the maximum again costs nearly 200k gold.
• Mount training. While "only" costing 45k gold, it takes at least 180 days to max your mount again.
• Achievements. While this is especially worrisome for players who only have one character, losing hard-earned titles is annoying for everyone.

Whichever way you cut it, "only new characters can use this" is not fun.
And it's not in the spirit of removing barriers estabilshed with One Tamriel.

This is literally the only instance of a content addition where you absolutely cannot use it with your existing characters. It absolutely flies in the face of all changes ZOS has made over the years.

jedtb16_ESO

CarbonX wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

there's that word again...... forced.

forced???

all you can do is watch the precious snowflakes wailing and gnashing their teeth about being 'forced' to do things...

and laugh

I feel bad about you. Do not waste your time trying to understand, please, since it's clear you won't get there...

no need to feel bad, i'm fine.

i also comprehend what the word 'forced' means and take exception when i see it used inappropriately.

Nuntjako

I keep getting amazed when reading these forums. The amount of complaining and entitlement is astounding...

Tandor

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

The problem is how grindy such things are in this game.

Half a year to upgrade your Mount for example.

Crafting research that will take another 3-4 months per Item to unlock all traits - so if you want to be a fully traited crafter for all crafts you are looking at around a year.

Questing and dungeon achievement are not too bad.

But overall such things in this game are far too grindy - more than almost any other Western MMORPG.

So when a new Class comes out it makes perfect sense to have a Class Change Token. Even if it is a single token that comes with buying the Expac so that players can transfer to the new class if they wish.

The other obvious alternative is, like most other games in the genre, have such unlocks and achievements account wide - so that once done they apply to all characters.

ESO seems to think is can have the uber-grind and not have a class change token - that is a sure fire way of making it a lot harder to retain subs over time, especially as new classes etc go live.

All The Best

No thanks to having unlocks and achievements account-wide, that really would make the game alt-unfriendly for those who want to develop more than one character rather than instantly summoning a maxed-out extra character.

Kodrac

Are you for real? If you wanted to play ANY class you have to create a new character. Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

Dragonnord

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

there's that word again...... forced.

forced???

all you can do is watch the precious snowflakes wailing and gnashing their teeth about being 'forced' to do things...

and laugh

I feel bad about you. Do not waste your time trying to understand, please, since it's clear you won't get there...

no need to feel bad, i'm fine.

i also comprehend what the word 'forced' means and take exception when i see it used inappropriately.

Then you understand that by "forced" I mean that I can't replace the class of my current character (DK) with the Warden class and so, if I want to use the Warden, my only option is to create an alt.