Difference between DLC and "Expansion"??

DaveMoeDee

sevomd69 wrote: »

BmcD73 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

can one buy orsinium and play the game?
can one buy thieves guild and play the game?
can one buy dark brotherhood and play the game?
can one buy shadows of the hist and play the game?
can one buy ESO One Tamriel and play the game?
can one buy ESO Morrowind and play the game?

Seems to me, two of these things are not like the other four on a very solid fundamental level.

I get where you are coming from but there are a few problems. 1) I don't know what 2 you are talking about (only ESO One Tam is playable by itself) and 2) almost no other expansions by themselves for any game ever are self contained games. In fact I can't think of a single one. Being bundled with the base game doesn't count. If that were the case you could say orsinium is playable by itself because of ESO Gold.

Morrowind is playable by itself...

Oh, it has its own character selection screen?

Totes-Bode

I'm not 100% sure as someone who already has an ESO subscription if I would drop another $40 on a new area. I subscribe so I can access things before committing to them with even more cash.

DaveMoeDee

Totes-Bode wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure as someone who already has an ESO subscription if I would drop another $40 on a new area. I subscribe so I can access things before committing to them with even more cash.

It is waaaay cheaper to just buy everything and never sub. Unless you are subbing one month at a time to evaluate. Than the math is a little trickier.

NovaShadow

The difference is in name only. They want more money. Pure and simple.

ADarklore

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

BmcD73 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

can one buy orsinium and play the game?
can one buy thieves guild and play the game?
can one buy dark brotherhood and play the game?
can one buy shadows of the hist and play the game?
can one buy ESO One Tamriel and play the game?
can one buy ESO Morrowind and play the game?

Seems to me, two of these things are not like the other four on a very solid fundamental level.

I get where you are coming from but there are a few problems. 1) I don't know what 2 you are talking about (only ESO One Tam is playable by itself) and 2) almost no other expansions by themselves for any game ever are self contained games. In fact I can't think of a single one. Being bundled with the base game doesn't count. If that were the case you could say orsinium is playable by itself because of ESO Gold.

Morrowind is playable by itself...

Oh, it has its own character selection screen?

It will have its own new 'tutorial'... so maybe the Wailing Prison won't be so crowded anymore.

BmcD73

The base game cost around $49 when it was released which is what you would expect to pay for a AAA title. I would expect this to have at about this much content. If it does then I don't think people will complain.

ADarklore

BmcD73 wrote: »

The base game cost around $49 when it was released which is what you would expect to pay for a AAA title. I would expect this to have at about this much content. If it does then I don't think people will complain.

Granted, in the base game, you weren't supposed to be able to play the ENTIRE Tamriel quests... you were supposed to be limited to your home alliance zone only. So for people complaining about the cost, just remember that originally the game wasn't designed to be 'open world' like it is now. Thus saying that 30 hours isn't the same as ESO base, it probably took that long or less to complete your original alliance zones.

Graydon

Jeez!

If you cannot or wish to not pay for the expansion.....then don't!

If ZOS is providing a product worthy of the price then it will sell.

If it sucks, then the price drops.

It's simple you pimples!

Savos_Saren

As an ESO+ subscriber, sure, I'm going to purchase the Morrowind "Expansion"- however, ZoS still has to keep up their end of the bargain and deliver free DLC for my One Tamriel subscription.

So, technically, I should get all the fun stuff from Morrowind and free DLC updates for content COMPLETELY UNRELATED to Morrowind... since, afterall, it's a completely separate purchase.

ADarklore

jaburns wrote: »

As an ESO+ subscriber, sure, I'm going to purchase the Morrowind "Expansion"- however, ZoS still has to keep up their end of the bargain and deliver free DLC for my One Tamriel subscription.

So, technically, I should get all the fun stuff from Morrowind and free DLC updates for content COMPLETELY UNRELATED to Morrowind... since, afterall, it's a completely separate purchase.

Gina already commented that all future DLCs will be free for ESO+ subscribers.

Rosveen

ADarklore wrote: »

BmcD73 wrote: »

The base game cost around $49 when it was released which is what you would expect to pay for a AAA title. I would expect this to have at about this much content. If it does then I don't think people will complain.

Granted, in the base game, you weren't supposed to be able to play the ENTIRE Tamriel quests... you were supposed to be limited to your home alliance zone only. So for people complaining about the cost, just remember that originally the game wasn't designed to be 'open world' like it is now. Thus saying that 30 hours isn't the same as ESO base, it probably took that long or less to complete your original alliance zones.

It doesn't matter what the devs intended five years before launch, when the game was released in 2014 we could play all alliance zones with the same character (in a more rigid sequence than today, but still).

BmcD73

Graydon wrote: »

Jeez!

If you cannot or wish to not pay for the expansion.....then don't!

If ZOS is providing a product worthy of the price then it will sell.

If it sucks, then the price drops.

It's simple you pimples!

You are right but I think we all want the game to be successful. The more success they have the more features it will have the more updates it will get the better overall the game will be.

But when you tell the community one thing and do another that creates bad blood. That turns people off from spending any money at all which is bad for all of us.

You know what would make this a slam dunk for me? Add perma crafting bag with purchase and I'm sold without question on the digital fatty edition.

Tommy_The_Gun

Expansion - it used to be an add-on, sold separately in a physical - existing box.
DLC - It is an expansion sold Digitally (Downloadable content).

The only difference was in the selling method. But nowadays this is more or less the same thing.

Cadbury

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Expansion - it used to be an add-on, sold separately in a physical - existing box.
DLC - It is an expansion sold Digitally (Downloadable content).

The only difference was in the selling method. But nowadays this is more or less the same thing.

You raise an interesting point.

The Witcher 3 calls its content addons "Expansions". But I've also seen people refer to them as "DLC". In fact, I've even been told on numerous occasions that they are NOT expansions but in reality DLC.

So yeah, I guess same difference -shrug-

raglau

Depending on the size and quality of the Morrowind expac I would possibly buy it, and it's true to say other devs charge for expacs and also run a sub. But it's interesting as when I bought ESO+ it was marketed as including 'access to all downloadable content'. I asked my friend about this, he's a contract lawyer and partner of a large London law firm - together we took on Frontier Developments and won when they suddenly removed their advertised 'offline mode', gaining refunds for hundreds of Kickstarter backers - he said he felt ZOS would come unstuck here in the EU.

The reason being that the terms expansion and DLC are arbitrary and applied at ZOS' discretion, these terms have no meaning in law. In law it's all digital content and when purchasing digital content such as ESO+, any constraints and exclusions have to be documented on a durable medium (i.e. not the website which can be changed to suit the supplier's whims) at the START of the contract, the supplier cannot introduce constraints such as 'does not include access to expansions' once the contract has started or they will be in breach of contract.

So, for those people who are bothered about this - and live in the EU where the law is very strict - don't get hung up on if this is an expansion or DLC, these are meaningless terms that can be used and abused by ZOS at will, pay attention to the statements made at the time you took out your contract for ESO+, and what exclusions, if any, were notified to you at that time in your signing up email.

Rex-Umbra

30 hours of story is A lot, probably 100s of hours will be spent in the zone enjoying the new content. The nex6 DLCs will most likely be related too and within Vvardenfell clockwork city etc as smaller dlcs.

raglau

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

30 hours of story is A lot, probably 100s of hours will be spent in the zone enjoying the new content. The nex6 DLCs will most likely be related too and within Vvardenfell clockwork city etc as smaller dlcs.

I wonder how that would work at a technical level. ZOS would have to make it so that players with vanilla ESO could still run the DLC related to the Morrowind expac. The store says:

"Access to all DLC Game Packs available in the Crown Store as long as ESO Plus™ membership is current."

So they could not breed a dependency upon Morrowind for subsequent DLC or they'd come unstuck here. That means it could not be that tightly integrated to the expac.

I think it will be interesting to see how it unfolds, and I'll reserve judgement as to whether this is ZOS' usual gouging, or in fact a really good update to the game.

Gaius_Baltar

I'm hoping they have a bundle for Morrowind and the other dlcs. I'd be willing to come back and play this, as well as pick up the expansion, but I don't want 2/3rds of the game, nor do I want to drop however much money Morrowind + the brand new original sale price of the dlcs is. I also can't justify subbing when I don't know how if the next dlc is free or paid, or when it will drop, quarterly or randomly.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Katahdin wrote: »

DLC = smaller package (Thieves guild, Dark Brotherhood, Wrothgar) with smaller area (single zone) and shorter story.

Expac=much larger territory, probably multiple zones with more story, additional class

DLC- DownLoadable Content.
Expansion - downloadable content aka new stuff.

And I'm not even subbed but I'd be pissed if I was.

MLGProPlayer

ADarklore wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

As an ESO+ subscriber, sure, I'm going to purchase the Morrowind "Expansion"- however, ZoS still has to keep up their end of the bargain and deliver free DLC for my One Tamriel subscription.

So, technically, I should get all the fun stuff from Morrowind and free DLC updates for content COMPLETELY UNRELATED to Morrowind... since, afterall, it's a completely separate purchase.

Gina already commented that all future DLCs will be free for ESO+ subscribers.

Considering they haven't released a new DLC in almost a year, I'm not sure there will be many future DLCs to look forward to.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

There is NO difference other than the fact that ZOS doesn't want to give this DLC to subscribers whose money helped fund it.

There are two types of differences here:

1. Differences in Kind.
2. Differences in Degree.

Imagine you go to a popcorn stand and buy medium bag of kettle corn for $8. There is also a jumbo bucket of popcorn. This costs $15 and comes in a bucket instead of a bag.

That is a difference in degree. You get more popcorn, in a different package, but its still popcorn, even if it was flavored differently, it still has the same basic features of popcorn.

Now if that same popcorn stand started selling hot dogs, that would be a difference in kind. There is no direct price comparison because these are two different things.

Lets look at the previous DLCs: (craglorn, Wrothgar, IC, DB, TG, SotH)

• Add X amount of landmass to the game.
• Adds new gameplay styles (trials, dungeons, solo arenas, PvP areas(IC)
• Adds X amount of new storyline to the game.

Now lets look at Vvardenfell.

• Adds A LOT more landmass to the game.
• Adds new gameplay styles (PvP Arena, trials)
• Adds 30hrs of new quests and storyline (wrothgar had 20hrs)

This is more Popcorn. It adds everything previous DLCs added but MORE of it. More landmass, More hours of quests, and about the same amount of new gameplay styles.


But what about the "new" class? Well we don't know how it will be added to the game. Many speculate that it will be added to the base game. Also, its pertinent to point out that this class was originally supposed to come out in the base game.

This video is from 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWaq6Pc8drM#t=50s
Warden discussion is about 1 minute and 50s in.

Even with the addition of a new class, which seems to be something than can be used with ANY DLC, not just the new one, this addition is a difference in degree, not in kind.

So now we have the tougher question. Why has ZOS decided to prevent loyal subscribers, who helped fund this game, from purchasing this DLC with crowns or getting it with their subscription? That is the most important question and ZOS really owes their subscribers a much more honest explanation.

BmcD73

I've been reading a number of posts over the last day or so and there are two things that I find funny.

1) Whenever a ZOS employee responds they continue to use the words "New Chapter". Like someone in their PR and Marketing dept. got everyone together and said, "when people are pissed at us calling this DLC an expansion, keep using the words 'New Chapter'". As if that just magically explains it away.

2) The number of fanbois that keep saying "It's and expansion!" As if that justifies everything. You could call it a flimflam or a pollywhoop. The name is irrelevant. What has traditionally defined an expansion is what is important.

Someone in another post referenced this:
WOW's first Expansion included

• 11new areas
• 10 dungeons
• 2 New Battlegrounds
• various
• updates including Jewelry Crafting

Latest WOW expansion

• 6 new areas
• 10 Dungeons
• 4 Raids
• New Class

ESO first DLC contained

• 1 New Area
• New raid
• 2 dungeons

Morrowind contains

• 1 New Area
• New Raid ?#Dungeons
• New Class
• Battlegrounds

Like I said before, something seems off here.

Merlin13KAGL

Semantics and about $40, it would seem.

VycDarkshadow

When people ask the difference between DLC and expansion, I direct them first to Diablo 2.

Diablo 2 was the base game, with 5 classes, 4 acts, etc. Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction was the expansion. It required Diablo 2 to play, and it added 2 new classes, an entire act, new maps, new items (for all classes, not just the two new ones), new runewords, and other stuff.

By comparison, a DLC would be like buying Jason Vorhees on Mortal Kombat X. You get Jason, and can use him to fight. That's it. No new maps, or anything like that. Just Jason.