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How much DPS?
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dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭HatchetHaro wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »
10k is pretty much the minimum for normal dungeons. For vet, you're going to want at least 15k, but that's considered super low already.
Animation canceling is part of every game, mate. In fact, in ESO, the devs have talked about it and in one patch even made the transition between canceled animations smoother. It was never a bug or an exploit; it's part of the game, and makes combat feel much less clunky. In combat, realistically you're not going to swing your sword and wait for it to slow down at the end of the swing and return to your stance before you throw out another slow swing; you chain several swings together as quick as you can. It just makes sense. Animation canceling (weaving, in particular) takes a lot of skill and muscle memory to pull off.
not true. if animation cancelling was not cheating and was intended play, the game would teach the concept of animation cancelling and how to do it as part of the tutorial. since it is not, that means it is not intended for gameplay.
Then tell me why, after two whole years, animation canceling wasn't patched out and instead, ZOS even did things to make animation canceling more intuitive?
Your point is proven even more invalid with the point that the game never teaches you to actually spam your skills instead of simply just light and heavy attacking. Instead, the tutorial teaches you to light and heavy attack, and only ever tells you to press 1 to cast skills. As you can see in pretty much all scenarios, spamming skills is a major part of combat in this game, and light and heavy attacking is never to be simply spammed. Oh, also, the tutorial never tells you that heavy attacking will return resources to you; does that make everyone who get resources back by heavy attacking cheaters?
You should stop. Animation canceling is an intended thing in pretty much all games, to make combat much less clunky. If you want to play the ignorant way, go ahead, but have fun continuing to be rekt by people who decide to use an intended game mechanic while you blame it and not yourself. I'll watch you struggle with doing proper damage while laughing from the elitist rafters with my 40k single target dps without buffs all because I actually bothered to weave light attacks in and weapon-swap out of my Endless Hail animation. Good luck!
not true. animation cancelling is cancelling out skills animation to bypass the tells of the attack and to also do more skills in a given time frame then is intended. it makes the game very clunky, and is also a large component of the lag that many people experience. only people who advocate for animation cancelling are people who are only interested in cheating to win. camelot unchained is one of the most anticipated games in production atm is going to be a pvp only game, they have already stated animation cancelling will not be a part of the game for the very reasons as well as other reasons all dealing with game balance.
and for your argument that many games have it, that is probably the same thought going in the mind of lemming number 1038 when he runs off the cliff because the lemming in front of him ran off only to discover a cold frigid demise awaits. just cause something is popular, doesnt make it right, or not cheating. keep arguing against it, but all you are doing is saying you would rather cheat to win then beat the game (pve) or player (pvp) then do so with skill.
I admire how you are sticking to your guns even when out-numbered.
Animation canceling is necessary for blocking else you wouldn't be able to effectively block during combat. Your character would have to literally just stand there waiting for the move you want to block else you would risk being caught in the middle of a combat animation.
I agree with you that using it as an offensive strategy to skip animations and get in more abilities per second makes the game feel clunky. It's clearly not intended (the developers have said so) but it's also clearly not cheating (the developers have also said so). So I would prefer that you stray away from making that claim in your arguments. It doesn't do it any favors.
Your argument that it makes the combat feel clunky and that players shouldn't be forced into adopting a clunky and unintended play-style to remain competitive is a lot more persuasive. At least in my opinion.
All abilities, even ones which are instant, have a global cooldown of 0.9s. That means no other skills can be input and occur during that timeframe. Animation canceling is not able to remove that GCD, so there is not way for more than 1 ability to be used per second.
Edited by dday3six on January 30, 2017 7:16PM0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »
10k is pretty much the minimum for normal dungeons. For vet, you're going to want at least 15k, but that's considered super low already.
Animation canceling is part of every game, mate. In fact, in ESO, the devs have talked about it and in one patch even made the transition between canceled animations smoother. It was never a bug or an exploit; it's part of the game, and makes combat feel much less clunky. In combat, realistically you're not going to swing your sword and wait for it to slow down at the end of the swing and return to your stance before you throw out another slow swing; you chain several swings together as quick as you can. It just makes sense. Animation canceling (weaving, in particular) takes a lot of skill and muscle memory to pull off.
not true. if animation cancelling was not cheating and was intended play, the game would teach the concept of animation cancelling and how to do it as part of the tutorial. since it is not, that means it is not intended for gameplay.
Then tell me why, after two whole years, animation canceling wasn't patched out and instead, ZOS even did things to make animation canceling more intuitive?
Your point is proven even more invalid with the point that the game never teaches you to actually spam your skills instead of simply just light and heavy attacking. Instead, the tutorial teaches you to light and heavy attack, and only ever tells you to press 1 to cast skills. As you can see in pretty much all scenarios, spamming skills is a major part of combat in this game, and light and heavy attacking is never to be simply spammed. Oh, also, the tutorial never tells you that heavy attacking will return resources to you; does that make everyone who get resources back by heavy attacking cheaters?
You should stop. Animation canceling is an intended thing in pretty much all games, to make combat much less clunky. If you want to play the ignorant way, go ahead, but have fun continuing to be rekt by people who decide to use an intended game mechanic while you blame it and not yourself. I'll watch you struggle with doing proper damage while laughing from the elitist rafters with my 40k single target dps without buffs all because I actually bothered to weave light attacks in and weapon-swap out of my Endless Hail animation. Good luck!
not true. animation cancelling is cancelling out skills animation to bypass the tells of the attack and to also do more skills in a given time frame then is intended. it makes the game very clunky, and is also a large component of the lag that many people experience. only people who advocate for animation cancelling are people who are only interested in cheating to win. camelot unchained is one of the most anticipated games in production atm is going to be a pvp only game, they have already stated animation cancelling will not be a part of the game for the very reasons as well as other reasons all dealing with game balance.
and for your argument that many games have it, that is probably the same thought going in the mind of lemming number 1038 when he runs off the cliff because the lemming in front of him ran off only to discover a cold frigid demise awaits. just cause something is popular, doesnt make it right, or not cheating. keep arguing against it, but all you are doing is saying you would rather cheat to win then beat the game (pve) or player (pvp) then do so with skill.
I admire how you are sticking to your guns even when out-numbered.
Animation canceling is necessary for blocking else you wouldn't be able to effectively block during combat. Your character would have to literally just stand there waiting for the move you want to block else you would risk being caught in the middle of a combat animation.
I agree with you that using it as an offensive strategy to skip animations and get in more abilities per second makes the game feel clunky. It's clearly not intended (the developers have said so) but it's also clearly not cheating (the developers have also said so). So I would prefer that you stray away from making that claim in your arguments. It doesn't do it any favors.
Your argument that it makes the combat feel clunky and that players shouldn't be forced into adopting a clunky and unintended play-style to remain competitive is a lot more persuasive. At least in my opinion.
All abilities, even ones which are instant, have a global cooldown of 0.9. That means no other skills can be input and occur during that timeframe. Animation canceling is not able to remove that GCD, so there is not way for more than 1 ability to be used per second.
But there would be on average, right?
Say I'm a really old and slow and bad player (purely hypothetical!!) and you are a strapping, young lad with stellar reflexes.
You would get more skills off in the space of, say, 100 seconds than me.
Compare someone who does not weave or cancel or anything to someone who has made a lifestyle out of optimizing his rotation. More skills per second (on average).0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are the Mobs and Bosses complaining again?
I don't understand what the fuss is about animation canceling is in a dungeon. PvP? Maybe its an issue there. But in a dungeon, it's not like the Mobs have a Union or Crisis Counselors giving them hugs after they are defeated. It is also not a secret that you can animation cancel in this game. Everyone does it, even those who say they don't. It may not be an intentional part of their rotation, but I can't imagine anyone waiting for an animation to finish before firing off another skill. Or, at least Blocking.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
ZiRM✭✭✭✭✭
✭lol this thread..Want to become Vampire? 5k @ZiRM in game.ESO Server Status. ( ^_^)o自自o(^_^ ) SkåL!!!!!1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭HatchetHaro wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »
10k is pretty much the minimum for normal dungeons. For vet, you're going to want at least 15k, but that's considered super low already.
Animation canceling is part of every game, mate. In fact, in ESO, the devs have talked about it and in one patch even made the transition between canceled animations smoother. It was never a bug or an exploit; it's part of the game, and makes combat feel much less clunky. In combat, realistically you're not going to swing your sword and wait for it to slow down at the end of the swing and return to your stance before you throw out another slow swing; you chain several swings together as quick as you can. It just makes sense. Animation canceling (weaving, in particular) takes a lot of skill and muscle memory to pull off.
not true. if animation cancelling was not cheating and was intended play, the game would teach the concept of animation cancelling and how to do it as part of the tutorial. since it is not, that means it is not intended for gameplay.
Then tell me why, after two whole years, animation canceling wasn't patched out and instead, ZOS even did things to make animation canceling more intuitive?
Your point is proven even more invalid with the point that the game never teaches you to actually spam your skills instead of simply just light and heavy attacking. Instead, the tutorial teaches you to light and heavy attack, and only ever tells you to press 1 to cast skills. As you can see in pretty much all scenarios, spamming skills is a major part of combat in this game, and light and heavy attacking is never to be simply spammed. Oh, also, the tutorial never tells you that heavy attacking will return resources to you; does that make everyone who get resources back by heavy attacking cheaters?
You should stop. Animation canceling is an intended thing in pretty much all games, to make combat much less clunky. If you want to play the ignorant way, go ahead, but have fun continuing to be rekt by people who decide to use an intended game mechanic while you blame it and not yourself. I'll watch you struggle with doing proper damage while laughing from the elitist rafters with my 40k single target dps without buffs all because I actually bothered to weave light attacks in and weapon-swap out of my Endless Hail animation. Good luck!
not true. animation cancelling is cancelling out skills animation to bypass the tells of the attack and to also do more skills in a given time frame then is intended. it makes the game very clunky, and is also a large component of the lag that many people experience. only people who advocate for animation cancelling are people who are only interested in cheating to win. camelot unchained is one of the most anticipated games in production atm is going to be a pvp only game, they have already stated animation cancelling will not be a part of the game for the very reasons as well as other reasons all dealing with game balance.
and for your argument that many games have it, that is probably the same thought going in the mind of lemming number 1038 when he runs off the cliff because the lemming in front of him ran off only to discover a cold frigid demise awaits. just cause something is popular, doesnt make it right, or not cheating. keep arguing against it, but all you are doing is saying you would rather cheat to win then beat the game (pve) or player (pvp) then do so with skill.
I admire how you are sticking to your guns even when out-numbered.
Animation canceling is necessary for blocking else you wouldn't be able to effectively block during combat. Your character would have to literally just stand there waiting for the move you want to block else you would risk being caught in the middle of a combat animation.
I agree with you that using it as an offensive strategy to skip animations and get in more abilities per second makes the game feel clunky. It's clearly not intended (the developers have said so) but it's also clearly not cheating (the developers have also said so). So I would prefer that you stray away from making that claim in your arguments. It doesn't do it any favors.
Your argument that it makes the combat feel clunky and that players shouldn't be forced into adopting a clunky and unintended play-style to remain competitive is a lot more persuasive. At least in my opinion.
All abilities, even ones which are instant, have a global cooldown of 0.9. That means no other skills can be input and occur during that timeframe. Animation canceling is not able to remove that GCD, so there is not way for more than 1 ability to be used per second.
But there would be on average, right?
Say I'm a really old and slow and bad player (purely hypothetical!!) and you are a strapping, young lad with stellar reflexes.
You would get more skills off in the space of, say, 100 seconds than me.
Compare someone who does not weave or cancel or anything to someone who has made a lifestyle out of optimizing his rotation. More skills per second (on average).
If you can only cast 1 skill/ability per second, no. It's been sometime since I dealt with the actual mathematical mechanics of something like that, so I cannot recall the proper terminology for all of it. However the basis of it is truth to the numbers vs truth to physical reality.
So an example of this is you can divide any number infinitely, but if you tried to apply the same methods the distant of a rock dropped from an inconsequential height. Mathematically you could divide the number infinitely thus making it appear that the rock would never hit the ground. When in reality that is not the case.
Also note that it's a point of contention with more than one skill in a 1s timeframe because some profess that AC allows a player to literally execute multiple skills within 1s. Which is what AzuraKin is aserting to be possible.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »
10k is pretty much the minimum for normal dungeons. For vet, you're going to want at least 15k, but that's considered super low already.
Animation canceling is part of every game, mate. In fact, in ESO, the devs have talked about it and in one patch even made the transition between canceled animations smoother. It was never a bug or an exploit; it's part of the game, and makes combat feel much less clunky. In combat, realistically you're not going to swing your sword and wait for it to slow down at the end of the swing and return to your stance before you throw out another slow swing; you chain several swings together as quick as you can. It just makes sense. Animation canceling (weaving, in particular) takes a lot of skill and muscle memory to pull off.
not true. if animation cancelling was not cheating and was intended play, the game would teach the concept of animation cancelling and how to do it as part of the tutorial. since it is not, that means it is not intended for gameplay.
Then tell me why, after two whole years, animation canceling wasn't patched out and instead, ZOS even did things to make animation canceling more intuitive?
Your point is proven even more invalid with the point that the game never teaches you to actually spam your skills instead of simply just light and heavy attacking. Instead, the tutorial teaches you to light and heavy attack, and only ever tells you to press 1 to cast skills. As you can see in pretty much all scenarios, spamming skills is a major part of combat in this game, and light and heavy attacking is never to be simply spammed. Oh, also, the tutorial never tells you that heavy attacking will return resources to you; does that make everyone who get resources back by heavy attacking cheaters?
You should stop. Animation canceling is an intended thing in pretty much all games, to make combat much less clunky. If you want to play the ignorant way, go ahead, but have fun continuing to be rekt by people who decide to use an intended game mechanic while you blame it and not yourself. I'll watch you struggle with doing proper damage while laughing from the elitist rafters with my 40k single target dps without buffs all because I actually bothered to weave light attacks in and weapon-swap out of my Endless Hail animation. Good luck!
not true. animation cancelling is cancelling out skills animation to bypass the tells of the attack and to also do more skills in a given time frame then is intended. it makes the game very clunky, and is also a large component of the lag that many people experience. only people who advocate for animation cancelling are people who are only interested in cheating to win. camelot unchained is one of the most anticipated games in production atm is going to be a pvp only game, they have already stated animation cancelling will not be a part of the game for the very reasons as well as other reasons all dealing with game balance.
and for your argument that many games have it, that is probably the same thought going in the mind of lemming number 1038 when he runs off the cliff because the lemming in front of him ran off only to discover a cold frigid demise awaits. just cause something is popular, doesnt make it right, or not cheating. keep arguing against it, but all you are doing is saying you would rather cheat to win then beat the game (pve) or player (pvp) then do so with skill.
You can't bypass globals so you're just flat out lying about that.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That is simple, give every ability an casting time a fraction shorter than the animation. This way you can still cancel the ability as you can with all ability with casting time but you would not do any damage.HatchetHaro wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »
10k is pretty much the minimum for normal dungeons. For vet, you're going to want at least 15k, but that's considered super low already.
Animation canceling is part of every game, mate. In fact, in ESO, the devs have talked about it and in one patch even made the transition between canceled animations smoother. It was never a bug or an exploit; it's part of the game, and makes combat feel much less clunky. In combat, realistically you're not going to swing your sword and wait for it to slow down at the end of the swing and return to your stance before you throw out another slow swing; you chain several swings together as quick as you can. It just makes sense. Animation canceling (weaving, in particular) takes a lot of skill and muscle memory to pull off.
not true. if animation cancelling was not cheating and was intended play, the game would teach the concept of animation cancelling and how to do it as part of the tutorial. since it is not, that means it is not intended for gameplay.
Then tell me why, after two whole years, animation canceling wasn't patched out
They can't / don't know how. FWIW.
Note that something is done as you can not do animation canceling on an instant cast ability with an light attack. Just an light attack with an ability. Yes if both was possible you could do 10-20 hits every second.
You can do animation canceling of an ability with, dodge, block, bash or weapon swap on the other hand.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zaris. The casting time for an ability is already a fraction shorter than the animation.Edited by idk on January 31, 2017 4:05PM0 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Protagonist wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »Can some one please give me a rotation for mag blade?
To get back on topic:
I also struggle with dps in dungeons, but done a lot of veteran ones and even one DLC one. I might had around 10k dps single target and maybe 40-60k if huge amounts of mobs come.
I usually cast piercing mark on the mob, then 2 dot's (cripple and entropy) and then light attack with concealed weapon weaving or when from distance, light attack/swallow soul or the destro staff skill (the one with 3 elemental attacks)
I try to cancel the skill with block, but I suck at weaving/animation cancelling.
I do know a friend of my brothers uncle's roommate who has a corsair k55 keyboard which supports macro keys. To the G1 key he programmed "1", "5", "alt" where the "1" key is a light attack, "5" is a skill and "alt" is block. He claims it upped his DPS because he just needed to press 1 button instead of 3.
Check out YouTube, search 'animation cancelling eso' there are a ton of guides made by the community to help out, check Deltia's channel too, that was the first one I found, he explains the concept and guides step by step.
Thanks i will look it up.
Just watched the Vvardenfell twitch and really look forward to it. I hope we can have a house in Balmorra or Caldera٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."0
