Health Attribute Discussion

Liofa

Hey . I remember devs saying something like ''We want to make Health a useful stat and make people want to invest in it.'' for Update 13 . I have been theorycrafting for a long time since PTS is updated to make it work . I really don't see any use for Health except Blazing Shield . I just wanted to ask , is there something I am missing ? I don't see any buffs or changes to Health attribute .

I have been playing with a Health stacking PvE tank for a long time now and was waiting this ''Health attribute'' change . That means , I did find some use for a High Health build like some other players but that was before Update 13 . I just checked Patch Notes to see if I missed something . Seriously , I cannot find anything that is related to Max Health builds . Are you planning something for this ? Please do because Resource Scaling is just makes Max Magicka and Max Stamina giving players both offense and defense . There is no need to give any point in Health other than surviving big burst attacks . Is this all what Max Health will be doing for this patch as well ?

Of course , I will leave some suggestions for you to consider and would like hear other players' opinions on them . Before reading these , I want to remind you that , Max Magicka gives damage bonus , healing bonus , shield size and pet damage bonus for Magicka Sorcerers and Max Stamina gives damage bonus , healing bonus and bigger pool to break free , roll dodge and block . Sacrificing a single point from these stats will reduce your every bonus that I just mentioned .

1- Health gives Healing Taken .

Since boosting Stamina increases Healing done with Stamina based heals (same with Magicka) , reducing the heals and damage dealt from the player itself and boosting the Healing taken from other players can be considered . It shouldn't be a huge number though since it will definitely cause immortal builds to be more active in Cyrodiil which no one wants . My suggestion is 0.2% per point into Health which will result in 12.8% Healing Taken bonus with 64 points into Health .

2- Health gives Health Recovery .

Health Recovery builds are considered weak for a reason . Health Recovery is definitely the most useless stat in the game . Almost no one cares if it is 0 or 1000 . Stacking Health Recovery costs too much Sustain , Max Stats and damage dealt/healing done for it's gain . While being a Health Recovery build completely prevents the player from being a vampire which is a big deal since Vampire passives are really great for both PvE and PvP . If a player is willing to sacrifice that much for a Health Recovery Tank build , they should get much more . My suggestion is 50 Health Recovery per point which will result in 3200 Health Recovery with 64 points into Health .

3- Health gives Damage mitigation to your shields that scale with Health .

While some shields are already being scaled with Health (Bone Shield , Igneous Shield , Sun Shield etc.) they are still underperforming in terms of defense due to no Resistance values of shields . Best proof for that is any fight in PvE . I don't know if you tank as a DK at all but when I cast my Igneous Shield (around 20k) , it just disappears in 1-2 seconds . Resistance values are more important than people think and you can clearly see it if you look at the damage difference you take to your shields . There is a huge difference . My suggestion is 0.5% damage mitigation on shields per point which will result in 32% damage mitigation with 64 points into Health . Again , there are also mitigation values that applies before shield so that 32% will get reduced by diminishing returns , a lot . I find this to be more balanced compared to shield size increase because Blazing Shield builds are dealing enough damage . No need to buff them even further . Not increasing the size of shields will make Blazing Shield as big as now which will not result in a damage increase from explosion .

4- Health boosts food/drink bonuses .

A ''Healthy'' diet is always good for the body . A player that invests in Health should eat properly and get bigger bonuses from their meal . My suggestion is boosting food and drink buffs by 0.5% per point which will be 32% with 64 points into Health . A tri-stat food gives 4.4k Health and 4.1k Stamina and Magicka normally . Buffed version will be 5.8k Health and 5.4k Stamina and Magicka . Seems nice to me .

To sum up , Health is an Attribute stat that almost no one spends points on because it reduces damage done , healing done , shield size for Magicka builds and sustain due to certain passives . Health stat's only job is surviving big hits (which can be done easily without it as well) and increasing the size of weak shields that scale with Health . Spending points into Health makes players lose so much , they just go for other ways to survive like shield stacking and perma-rolling/blocking . My point is , a Magicka Sorcerer with 3 shields or a Magicka Templar with 25k Health can survive much easier than a 50-60k Max Health build . Because the Max Health build sacrifices so much and gets nothing but being able to take few more hits before death .

Thanks for reading . I would like some comments to my suggestions and waiting for your suggestions as well related to this topic .

Cheers ,

Liofa

Anti_Virus

Liofa wrote: »

Hey . I remember devs saying something like ''We want to make Health a useful stat and make people want to invest in it.'' for Update 13 . I have been theorycrafting for a long time since PTS is updated to make it work . I really don't see any use for Health except Blazing Shield . I just wanted to ask , is there something I am missing ? I don't see any buffs or changes to Health attribute .

I have been playing with a Health stacking PvE tank for a long time now and was waiting this ''Health attribute'' change . That means , I did find some use for a High Health build like some other players but that was before Update 13 . I just checked Patch Notes to see if I missed something . Seriously , I cannot find anything that is related to Max Health builds . Are you planning something for this ? Please do because Resource Scaling is just makes Max Magicka and Max Stamina giving players both offense and defense . There is no need to give any point in Health other than surviving big burst attacks . Is this all what Max Health will be doing for this patch as well ?

Of course , I will leave some suggestions for you to consider and would like hear other players' opinions on them . Before reading these , I want to remind you that , Max Magicka gives damage bonus , healing bonus , shield size and pet damage bonus for Magicka Sorcerers and Max Stamina gives damage bonus , healing bonus and bigger pool to break free , roll dodge and block . Sacrificing a single point from these stats will reduce your every bonus that I just mentioned .

1- Health gives Healing Taken .

Since boosting Stamina increases Healing done with Stamina based heals (same with Magicka) , reducing the heals and damage dealt from the player itself and boosting the Healing taken from other players can be considered . It shouldn't be a huge number though since it will definitely cause immortal builds to be more active in Cyrodiil which no one wants . My suggestion is 0.2% per point into Health which will result in 12.8% Healing Taken bonus with 64 points into Health .

2- Health gives Health Recovery .

Health Recovery builds are considered weak for a reason . Health Recovery is definitely the most useless stat in the game . Almost no one cares if it is 0 or 1000 . Stacking Health Recovery costs too much Sustain , Max Stats and damage dealt/healing done for it's gain . While being a Health Recovery build completely prevents the player from being a vampire which is a big deal since Vampire passives are really great for both PvE and PvP . If a player is willing to sacrifice that much for a Health Recovery Tank build , they should get much more . My suggestion is 50 Health Recovery per point which will result in 3200 Health Recovery with 64 points into Health .

3- Health gives Damage mitigation to your shields that scale with Health .

While some shields are already being scaled with Health (Bone Shield , Igneous Shield , Sun Shield etc.) they are still underperforming in terms of defense due to no Resistance values of shields . Best proof for that is any fight in PvE . I don't know if you tank as a DK at all but when I cast my Igneous Shield (around 20k) , it just disappears in 1-2 seconds . Resistance values are more important than people think and you can clearly see it if you look at the damage difference you take to your shields . There is a huge difference . My suggestion is 0.5% damage mitigation on shields per point which will result in 32% damage mitigation with 64 points into Health . Again , there are also mitigation values that applies before shield so that 32% will get reduced by diminishing returns , a lot . I find this to be more balanced compared to shield size increase because Blazing Shield builds are dealing enough damage . No need to buff them even further . Not increasing the size of shields will make Blazing Shield as big as now which will not result in a damage increase from explosion .

4- Health boosts food/drink bonuses .

A ''Healthy'' diet is always good for the body . A player that invests in Health should eat properly and get bigger bonuses from their meal . My suggestion is boosting food and drink buffs by 0.5% per point which will be 32% with 64 points into Health . A tri-stat food gives 4.4k Health and 4.1k Stamina and Magicka normally . Buffed version will be 5.8k Health and 5.4k Stamina and Magicka . Seems nice to me .

To sum up , Health is an Attribute stat that almost no one spends points on because it reduces damage done , healing done , shield size for Magicka builds and sustain due to certain passives . Health stat's only job is surviving big hits (which can be done easily without it as well) and increasing the size of weak shields that scale with Health . Spending points into Health makes players lose so much , they just go for other ways to survive like shield stacking and perma-rolling/blocking . My point is , a Magicka Sorcerer with 3 shields or a Magicka Templar with 25k Health can survive much easier than a 50-60k Max Health build . Because the Max Health build sacrifices so much and gets nothing but being able to take few more hits before death .

Thanks for reading . I would like some comments to my suggestions and waiting for your suggestions as well related to this topic .

Cheers ,

Liofa

Lol I was hoping for some good changed regarding the HP pool as well, but I guess the devs forgot about that.

glavius

Lolz 3200 base health recovery at 64 points spent. Totally OP. Health is actually pretty well balanced atm(in pvp) . Hope wrobel doesnt *** things up.

Taleof2Cities

Liofa wrote: »

Hey . I remember devs saying something like ''We want to make Health a useful stat and make people want to invest in it.'' for Update 13 .

You are correct, @Liofa, the Health attribute was something ZOS wanted to tweak to make more viable. However, they didn't specifically say Update 13 was a definite target to make the changes. In other words, no ETA™.

I'm with you on this topic, however.

Hopefully, the changes bring back the usefulness of the attribute ... and amplify the diversity of builds without wrecking players' current setups.

Anti_Virus

Liofa wrote: »

Hey . I remember devs saying something like ''We want to make Health a useful stat and make people want to invest in it.'' for Update 13 . I have been theorycrafting for a long time since PTS is updated to make it work . I really don't see any use for Health except Blazing Shield . I just wanted to ask , is there something I am missing ? I don't see any buffs or changes to Health attribute .

I have been playing with a Health stacking PvE tank for a long time now and was waiting this ''Health attribute'' change . That means , I did find some use for a High Health build like some other players but that was before Update 13 . I just checked Patch Notes to see if I missed something . Seriously , I cannot find anything that is related to Max Health builds . Are you planning something for this ? Please do because Resource Scaling is just makes Max Magicka and Max Stamina giving players both offense and defense . There is no need to give any point in Health other than surviving big burst attacks . Is this all what Max Health will be doing for this patch as well ?

Of course , I will leave some suggestions for you to consider and would like hear other players' opinions on them . Before reading these , I want to remind you that , Max Magicka gives damage bonus , healing bonus , shield size and pet damage bonus for Magicka Sorcerers and Max Stamina gives damage bonus , healing bonus and bigger pool to break free , roll dodge and block . Sacrificing a single point from these stats will reduce your every bonus that I just mentioned .

1- Health gives Healing Taken .

Since boosting Stamina increases Healing done with Stamina based heals (same with Magicka) , reducing the heals and damage dealt from the player itself and boosting the Healing taken from other players can be considered . It shouldn't be a huge number though since it will definitely cause immortal builds to be more active in Cyrodiil which no one wants . My suggestion is 0.2% per point into Health which will result in 12.8% Healing Taken bonus with 64 points into Health .

2- Health gives Health Recovery .

Health Recovery builds are considered weak for a reason . Health Recovery is definitely the most useless stat in the game . Almost no one cares if it is 0 or 1000 . Stacking Health Recovery costs too much Sustain , Max Stats and damage dealt/healing done for it's gain . While being a Health Recovery build completely prevents the player from being a vampire which is a big deal since Vampire passives are really great for both PvE and PvP . If a player is willing to sacrifice that much for a Health Recovery Tank build , they should get much more . My suggestion is 50 Health Recovery per point which will result in 3200 Health Recovery with 64 points into Health .

3- Health gives Damage mitigation to your shields that scale with Health .

While some shields are already being scaled with Health (Bone Shield , Igneous Shield , Sun Shield etc.) they are still underperforming in terms of defense due to no Resistance values of shields . Best proof for that is any fight in PvE . I don't know if you tank as a DK at all but when I cast my Igneous Shield (around 20k) , it just disappears in 1-2 seconds . Resistance values are more important than people think and you can clearly see it if you look at the damage difference you take to your shields . There is a huge difference . My suggestion is 0.5% damage mitigation on shields per point which will result in 32% damage mitigation with 64 points into Health . Again , there are also mitigation values that applies before shield so that 32% will get reduced by diminishing returns , a lot . I find this to be more balanced compared to shield size increase because Blazing Shield builds are dealing enough damage . No need to buff them even further . Not increasing the size of shields will make Blazing Shield as big as now which will not result in a damage increase from explosion .

4- Health boosts food/drink bonuses .

A ''Healthy'' diet is always good for the body . A player that invests in Health should eat properly and get bigger bonuses from their meal . My suggestion is boosting food and drink buffs by 0.5% per point which will be 32% with 64 points into Health . A tri-stat food gives 4.4k Health and 4.1k Stamina and Magicka normally . Buffed version will be 5.8k Health and 5.4k Stamina and Magicka . Seems nice to me .

To sum up , Health is an Attribute stat that almost no one spends points on because it reduces damage done , healing done , shield size for Magicka builds and sustain due to certain passives . Health stat's only job is surviving big hits (which can be done easily without it as well) and increasing the size of weak shields that scale with Health . Spending points into Health makes players lose so much , they just go for other ways to survive like shield stacking and perma-rolling/blocking . My point is , a Magicka Sorcerer with 3 shields or a Magicka Templar with 25k Health can survive much easier than a 50-60k Max Health build . Because the Max Health build sacrifices so much and gets nothing but being able to take few more hits before death .

Thanks for reading . I would like some comments to my suggestions and waiting for your suggestions as well related to this topic .

Cheers ,

Liofa

[Deleted]

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

HP recovery tanks are really hard to kill.

Soris

/lurk

- signed, a blazing shield templar

ADarklore

I would rather they just get rid of Mag/Stam altogether and just give us a centralize resource pool, it would give players who want to run a hybrid build a much easier way instead of relying almost solely on the Pelinals crafted set.

As it is now, there really is so little viability with diversity, that tinkering with health wouldn't resolve the build problem that we have now.

Tannus15

Doesn't matter what they do with health attribute as long as less stamina / magicka equals less damage.

The way the game is now you're always better off spending all your attributes in stam or magi and using armour enchants to bring your health up for tanking, because this allows you to swap gear and have a not gimped dps setup for the same character, which is a must for dungeons like Darkshade Caverns 2 or Direfrost (or literally any fight were the boss is un-tauntable)