Am I calculating this correctly? 0.242% drop rate on the sword I want and I need two.... FIX RNG PLZ

Vaoh

So please let me know if I'm missing something here.....

I need two Sharpened Spell Power Cure Swords for a build of mine. Luckily, it turns out that vWGT is one of two group dungeons that has a sort of token system where you can open a loot chest in exchange for trophies. I did some simple math though and it looks like the odds of me getting what I want is absolutely atrocious if drop chances are legitimately not skewed. From my own experience, it seems that jewelry drop rates are much higher than those of weapons, and even more so than those of shields. None of this helps my case

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First we'll start off with the IC Dungeon trophy chest. There are:
- 7 armor pieces (we are assuming that robes and jerkins share the same loot chance, otherwise it'd be 8 pieces)
- 2 types of jewelry (ring, necklace)
- 10 weapons (including shield)
- 9 traits for armor and weapon (jewelry only drops with favored traits)
- 3 sets that can drop (true for all group dungeons)

17 armor/weapon types x 8 traits to choose from = 136 combinations
136 combinations + 2 jewelry types = 138 items
138 items x 3 sets = 414 possible drops

*414 possible drops in IC Dungeon trophy chests! This gives me a 0.242% chance at looting the item I want. I also need two of them....* This becomes 431 possible drops (0.228% chance) if robes and jerkins do not share the same loot chance, and they probably don't.

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Next we'll look at loot from Molag Kena:
- 10 weapons (including shield)
- 2 types of jewelry (ring, necklace)
- 9 traits for weapons (jewelry only drops with favored traits)
- 3 sets that can drop (true for all group dungeons)

10 weapon types x 8 traits to choose from = 80 combinations
80 combinations + 2 jewelry types = 82 items
82 items x 3 sets = 246 possible drops

*246 possible drops from Molag Kena! This gives me a 0.407% chance at looting the item I want. I also need two of them....*

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So from this is seems that IC Dungeon chests have a 0.228%-0.242%% drop rate on the item I want, and Molag Kena has a 0.407% drop rate. Luckily IC chests drop two set items when you open it, and with Molag Kena you can have a better chance if you actually get your friends to grind vWGT hundreds of times with you. At the same time I also need TWO swords....

ZOS can we please look at this situation a little more in-depth? Unless I want to give up on all of my sleep and completely neglect my life for like a month (as well as those of three other ppl) I have no chance at acquiring the loot I need for my build. The RNG is impossibly bad. This cannot be intended. I will never get the swords I want because the RNG is that bad.

I'm sure my RNG problem here is shared with most all players who are in similar situations with acquiring loot they need, especially if not even BiS and just for somewhat effective yet unique builds. That is all.

Please let me know if my math here is incorrect. If it is, please let it work in my favor.... it's just sad knowing that I'm someone who plays ton of ESO and even I am nearly incapable of getting even single one of these swords.

NeillMcAttack

Nothing drops in Nirnhoned so it's 8 traits across the board. Also there are two items in the chest.

But from personal experience. Drops are skewed. No doubt in my mind.

So best of luck....

Edit; I see you mentioned the two items in chest. My bad.

Nestor

This is why I never hang my build on a specific item that is only obtained through drops.

Or, another way of looking it, I don't sweat the Traits. The Set Bonuses are much more important to me. I mean, if the trait on a item or two is going to make or break your build, is it all that good a build in the first place? I ran a Molga Kena Shoulder in Reinforced Medium on my Caster for a months until I got a LA one (this was before it was easier to get Molag Kena). For the record I don't have the Undaunted passive that makes it better to wear a piece of Medium either, and I had to give up one heavy to boot.

I am not dissing you, it's just lots of people have pointed this out before, and ZOS is not going to move on the issue. So, all you can really do is move forward given what you have to work with, not what you want to work with.

Vaoh

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Nothing drops in Nirnhoned so it's 8 traits across the board. Also there are two items in the chest.

But from personal experience. Drops are skewed. No doubt in my mind.

So best of luck....

True. I'll fix that. This sorta helps

mateoz

I think your math are way off.

Unless proven wrong otherwise I Don't think the weapons and jewelry can actually drop from that key fragments treasure chest at all.
You cannot get nirn items either.
so its 8 traits * 8 armor * 3 sets = 192 with 0% chances of getting a sword.

I think you might get sword from the last boss and Chests inside the dungeon (regular ones)

Vaoh

Nestor wrote: »

This is why I never hang my build on a specific item that is only obtained through drops.

Or, another way of looking it, I don't sweat the Traits. The Set Bonuses are much more important to me. I mean, if the trait on a item or two is going to make or break your build, is it all that good a build in the first place? I ran a Molga Kena Shoulder in Reinforced Medium on my Caster for a months until I got a LA one (this was before it was easier to get Molag Kena). For the record I don't have the Undaunted passive that makes it better to wear a piece of Medium either, and I had to give up one heavy to boot.

I am not dissing you, it's just lots of people have pointed this out before, and ZOS is not going to move on the issue. So, all you can really do is move forward given what you have to work with, not what you want to work with.

Problem is, this build is for PvP

Sharpened is a must on weapons if you want to deal damage, otherwise I'd love to settle for other traits. Weapon traits are also have a much bigger effect on your build than single non-optimal armor traits. This is why it's okay to run Infused or non-optimal traits on some armor pieces while you wait for Divines/Impen/whatever while it's a mess to run a Powered Sword vs a Sharpened Sword for damage.

The build I have in mind is unique AND strong. A rare combination. Problem is, it becomes weaker than anything else I can run if I don't have two Sharpened Spell Power Cure Swords. Might as well go 3x Willpower/2x Elegance or something....

static_recharge

I honestly think they need a true token system. Not one that still makes you open a RNG box. One where after so many tokens are obtained you can go to a vendor and outright buy the item you want.

If the number of tokens required is on the high side (but not ridiculous) then the content still has repeat value and people can get lucky and get their item early. However the majority of people will still be able to save up and get the item they are after if RNG isn't kind to them. This will still give the sense of an achievable goal while keeping content relevant.

billp_ESO

I think having to run the same dungeon hundreds of times to get the drop you need is considered "content" by ZoS, and it won't change.

Vaoh

mateoz wrote: »

I think your math are way off.

Unless proven wrong otherwise I Don't think the weapons and jewelry can actually drop from that key fragments treasure chest at all.
You cannot get nirn items either.
so its 8 traits * 8 armor * 3 sets = 192 with 0% chances of getting a sword.

I think you might get sword from the last boss and Chests inside the dungeon (regular ones)

Yeah I edited out the Nirnhoned part.

If IC Dungeon trophy chests don't drop weapons that's even more discouraging.

Nestor

Vaoh wrote: »

otherwise I'd love to settle for other traits.

I think your getting the point I am making....

Vaoh

static_recharge wrote: »

I honestly think they need a true token system. Not one that still makes you open a RNG box. One where after so many tokens are obtained you can go to a vendor and outright buy the item you want.

If the number of tokens required is on the high side (but not ridiculous) then the content still has repeat value and people can get lucky and get their item early. However the majority of people will still be able to save up and get the item they are after if RNG isn't kind to them. This will still give the sense of an achievable goal while keeping content relevant.

I'd love this! So far I have run vWGT a ton of times since One Tamriel to help a friend get a full Divines Spell Power Cure set. No sword drops.

OutLaw_Nynx

Why are you using swords as a healer is the real question?

Vaoh

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Why are you using swords as a healer is the real question?

No, that's not the real question lol. Not a healer.

OutLaw_Nynx

Then why SPC?

OutLaw_Nynx

Not trying to attack you btw, just curious

Vaoh

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Then why SPC?

It's for a unique build of mine for PvP. Gives great bonuses and nice damage but also lets you provide a few friends with the buff if I have a few randoms by my side when not entirely running solo.

DurzoBlint13

mateoz wrote: »

I think your math are way off.

Unless proven wrong otherwise I Don't think the weapons and jewelry can actually drop from that key fragments treasure chest at all.
You cannot get nirn items either.
so its 8 traits * 8 armor * 3 sets = 192 with 0% chances of getting a sword.

I think you might get sword from the last boss and Chests inside the dungeon (regular ones)

that is wrong. Jewelry and weapons DO drop from the chests from the Key Vaults in both ICP and WGT

iseko

I did 243 runs of crypt of hearts to get 1 decisive axe. I needed a one handed weapon. Pref defending.... *** that

Zvorgin

static_recharge wrote: »

I honestly think they need a true token system. Not one that still makes you open a RNG box. One where after so many tokens are obtained you can go to a vendor and outright buy the item you want.

If the number of tokens required is on the high side (but not ridiculous) then the content still has repeat value and people can get lucky and get their item early. However the majority of people will still be able to save up and get the item they are after if RNG isn't kind to them. This will still give the sense of an achievable goal while keeping content relevant.

Yes, this is completely reasonable. Even making it 50 runs for an item on normal or 25 on vet is fine with me (assume vet would give 2 tokens) at least the player knows there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Masel

I've been farming two undaunted infiltrator swords in sharpened since the release of 1T and haven't even gotten one of them in around 130 runs, out of which at least 80 were with a group of four... If it weren't four a precise unique one I would've probably given up on the game. But I don't think the rng is the problem, the trait imbalance is. If the difference between sharpened and other traits were smaller you could settler for an infused one, or precise, or nirnhoned, or even charged, but you lose at least 6-7% dps when using something else than sharpened.

Instead if giving us trait balance, they nerf the builds I came up with in weeks of theorycrafting to the ground despite them not being in any way overpowered.


I'll post this suggestion in every thread until someone from ZoS notices, if you're tired of the mindless grind help me :

Precise up to 15% (or 10% crit chance and an 6-8% crit damage multiplier), nirnhoned to 33%, sharpened and defending remain the same or become 25%. Powered gives healing done and significantly buffs light and heavy attack damage to make it effective in weaving builds. Charged increases chance for status effects and doubles their effectiveness and duration (this would be cool in both PvE and PvP). Decisive reduces ultimate cost in addition to the current buff to ultimate gained. Prosperous buffs gold gained and increases the item drop chance for rare items to make it useful in farming overland sets. Training remains as it is. Infused applies to poisons as well to make it worth using on dd characters and PvP.

beekalad

I can confirm rings, necklaces and resto staffs drop from WGT chest with trophies, so far i've got 3 spc rings and 1 neck and 2 resto of essence thief..... probably used around 15-20 keys.
Have found that if you use a character that hasn't opened the chest before my rng for jewellery is around 35-50%, on the four occasions that I received jewellery it was a new character that opened the chest for the first/second time.
Hopefully that helps!

Riggsy

RNG only works if there is a way to off-load gear you dont want. I believe everything should be sellable/BoE or if Zos has to, to keep vMA/vDSA gear special, make it vendor trade-able with a token system.

Phinix1

Nestor wrote: »

ZOS is not going to move on the issue.

Oh I'm not so sure. When they raise the gear cap and 50% of their paying customers move elsewhere instead of facing years of grinding all over again just to get back to where they were, I have no doubt they will finally put in a proper token system so that people actually get a sense of guaranteed reward for their time, even if it takes months. Better than the atrocious RNG everything where you are never guaranteed to get what you want ever.

I have absolutely no idea why they are so stubborn about it but it's their game so whatever.

Maybe they think it will keep skilled players carrying pugs in the dungeon finder, but realistically most people that do the grind do it with the same 3 guild mates and avoid the finder, and if a group is terrible people don't carry them, they bail.

Kartalin

mateoz wrote: »

I think your math are way off.

Unless proven wrong otherwise I Don't think the weapons and jewelry can actually drop from that key fragments treasure chest at all.
You cannot get nirn items either.
so its 8 traits * 8 armor * 3 sets = 192 with 0% chances of getting a sword.

I think you might get sword from the last boss and Chests inside the dungeon (regular ones)

I've gotten an SPC sword from the key fragments chest (infused) so it is possible. Pretty fierce RNG though.

Karius_Imalthar

Ok, i'm just playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion...

Should the game be modified to accommodate your wants or should your wants be adjusted so you're happy with the things you do get? Discuss.

Izaki

I've been running with an medium Impen Ilambris shoulder piece for a few months.............

Grabmoore

Karius_Imalthar wrote: »

Ok, i'm just playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion...

Should the game be modified to accommodate your wants or should your wants be adjusted so you're happy with the things you do get? Discuss.

Neither. the thing we want is sharpened, because it pointless to create a dps build without sharpened weapons. the exception is a nice dk build on tamriel foundry, but thats a niche.

The fact sharpened is so strong has to be adjusted. Make all traits great again.

Ladislao

Masel92 wrote: »

I've been farming two undaunted infiltrator swords in sharpened since the release of 1T and haven't even gotten one of them in around 130 runs, out of which at least 80 were with a group of four... If it weren't four a precise unique one I would've probably given up on the game. But I don't think the rng is the problem, the trait imbalance is. If the difference between sharpened and other traits were smaller you could settler for an infused one, or precise, or nirnhoned, or even charged, but you lose at least 6-7% dps when using something else than sharpened.

Instead if giving us trait balance, they nerf the builds I came up with in weeks of theorycrafting to the ground despite them not being in any way overpowered.


I'll post this suggestion in every thread until someone from ZoS notices, if you're tired of the mindless grind help me :

Precise up to 15% (or 10% crit chance and an 6-8% crit damage multiplier), nirnhoned to 33%, sharpened and defending remain the same or become 25%. Powered gives healing done and significantly buffs light and heavy attack damage to make it effective in weaving builds. Charged increases chance for status effects and doubles their effectiveness and duration (this would be cool in both PvE and PvP). Decisive reduces ultimate cost in addition to the current buff to ultimate gained. Prosperous buffs gold gained and increases the item drop chance for rare items to make it useful in farming overland sets. Training remains as it is. Infused applies to poisons as well to make it worth using on dd characters and PvP.

The most useful post lately. Right reasonings instead of empty moaning. Even suggested changes look adequate for adding into patchnotes. Bravo!

Qbiken

First rule of grinding gear: Farm them on normal and don´t do it alone. Drops aren´t scewed, and WGT have some kind of "token" system (if u see the vault in the dungeon where 150 fragments=1 key, counts as a token system)

Dawnblade

Reasonably balanced traits, smarter loot tables with junk combinations removed, and equal chances for all weapon types (e.g. inferno staff, dagger, bow) to drop instead of equal chance for main weapon types (e.g. Destro staff, 1H, bow) would go a long way to making the grind feel reasonable.

acw37162

The math is a little off but not a lot, with what will be before it's all said and close to 12 months with no new content (not counting seasonal events) you have the time, cheers.