Willow's Path still broken - data included

Yiko

Summary: Test concludes that Willow's Path does not take into consideration things like Drinks or Troll King's 2 piece proc.

Test was done with:
6 Medium Armor for consistency
Tooltip 123 Recovery on 4 piece/124 Recovery on 5 piece Willow's Path (changes due to gear quality dropping on removal of 5 piece). This will be reflected in the data.
493 Stamina /493 Magicka Recovery drink

*Please note that any "willow" listed below in the data indicates ONLY the Willow's Path 5 Piece bonus - NOT all of its set bonuses.
*Also note that the "base" recovery is actually the recovery listed on my character sheet after all calculations BEFORE equipping Willow's Path 5 piece or using a drink.

HR base 515
HR base + willow 591
HR base + troll king 2357
HR base + troll king + willow 2433
591 - 515 = 76
2433 - 2357 = 76
This is just plain as day; Troll King is definitely not factored into Willow's Path 5 piece.

MR base 740
MR base + drink 1311
MR base + willow 850
MR base + willow + drink 1422
1311 - 740 = 571
1422 - 850 = 572

SR base 1644
SR base + drink 2427
SR base + willow 1890
SR base + willow + drink 2674
2427 - 1644 = 783
2674 - 1890 = 784

Another way to look at it is to take the ((Base+Willow)-(Base)) to get the Recovery difference that the 5 piece provides to base, and add that to (Base+Drink), and you’ll get Base+Willow+Drink result, showing again that Willow’s 5 piece does not calculate drinks.

So for example, 1890 - 1644 = 246.
246 + 2427 = 2673, which is consistent with the 1 recovery point on the set tooltip I lose when dropping the 5 piece, due to gear quality.
If Willow's DID affect drinks, we'd be looking at a number closer to 2748 for SR base + willow + drink (just add the result of 493*.15).

I found this equation from Soulac another Willow's thread: (FlatStamReg - Drinkbuff) * StaminaCP * StaminaPassives * EquipBonus + DrinkBuff * StaminaPassives
I'm not sure if the formula listed above is currently correct after my tests just now.

I unequipped all of my Medium Armor on my Redguard (9% Recovery) Stamina Nightblade (15% recovery) with 30 CP in Mooncalf (10.8% recovery).

With CP, before I used my drink (493 Stamina Recovery), I was at 1189 Stamina Recovery. After, I was at 1854.
1854 - 1189 = 665
Which is 493 * (1+0.09+0.15+0.108)
493 * (1.348) = 664.56

Without CP, it went as such:
1703 - 1092 = 611
Which is 493 * (1+0.09+0.15)
493 * (1.24) = 611.32

I imagine if you tested it with 7 Medium Armor (28% Recovery) in the first equation I provided, the difference between Stamina Recovery would be:
493 * (1+0.09+0.15+0.108+0.28) =
493 * (1.628) = 802.60 or 803 rounded up.

Need to test how Werewolf & Major Buffs work with that as well.

I know Willow's Path affects things like base recovery, so in regards to Soulac's equation, perhaps StaminaCP has to be consolidated into the StaminaPassives side of the drink equation. I can't say anything about the left side, as I don't feel like removing my character's skills and gradually adding/noting recovery.

In my initial post, by "SR base," I meant the total Stamina Recovery on my Character page before using a drink or Willow's 5 piece, so that includes CP, passives, and things like Serpent Mundus.


If the difference between (SR base + drink) - (SR base) and (SR base + willow + drink) - (SR base + willow) is equal, it means that Willow's only affected a certain portion of Stamina Recovery, but it was NOT the drinks.
So it's like (X + Z) - (X) = Z and then (XY+Z) - (XY) = Z
X is the culmination of all recovery on your character before Willow's
Y = Willow's Path 15%
Z = Drink Recovery after all relevant calculations

In my initial post, you can see that everytime I added Willow's to my "X" Recovery, it increased by 15%. Example: 1644 to 1890.

Currently, Willow's Path does not affect the drink side of the equation. Nor does it calculate Troll King's Health Recovery at all.

Ahzek

@Soulac hang in there buddy

React

Pls fix dis Zos. I want to run this set SO BADLY next patch, but won't be able to justify it unless a fix is implemented.

I promise to buy 15x crown crates next season patch if you fix dis.

OtarTheMad

Just scrap this set and give us another one to replace it ZOS if you're never going to fix it. Been broken for too long. Maybe change the 5pc bonus to something that actually works.

blabafat

lmao I think it's been 1 yr and 5 months now ?

Yiko

blabafat wrote: »

lmao I think it's been 1 yr and 5 months now ?

Worked on IC pts, didn't work on IC live Rip

Taleof2Cities

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom?

Arthg

TL;DR
There's a bug to WP and drinks, but it seems to be because of champion points rather than WP failing to add a bonus to drinks.

---

I don't know about Troll King, but the following may be of interest.
I observe roughly the same results as you OP, if we exclude racial passives.
This is the first time I'm trying maths in the game, so corrections to my calculations and explanations are welcome

---

I have a full golded out set of WP (i.e. +129 to all regen stats).
Race: Orc (20% to health regen)
CPs: 55 in Mooncalf and Arcanist (+16.5%), 2 in Healthy (+1.6%).

Here are my findings (Magicka Regen/Health Regen/Stam Regen).

Base, no drink buff:
596/376/596

Base with WP, observed results:
857 | 714 | 857

These results strictly correspond to the equation: (596+(129+16.5%))+15%: CPs are added to the set bonus, and WP adds the 15% bonus to the sum. Racial passives seem to be added to the full result: ((base + (129+CP%)+15%)+20%...

With drinks:
Base + drink buff (Orcrest, 446 in Health Regen, 410 in Stam and Magicka Regen):
1071 | 921 | 1071

The equation seems to be: (base + (drink+CP%)) - just slightly under (should be 1073).

Base + drink buff + WP, observed results:
1332 | 1347 | 1332

My understanding is that the equation in this case should be: (base + (drink+CP%) + (129+CP%)) + 15%
For either stam or magicka, this would be: (596+(410+16.5%)+(129+16.5%))+15% = 1407 - higher than the observed results.

Therefore:
It seems that the observed results can be almost accounted for if we remove the CP bonus from the equation: (596+410+(129+16.5%)) = 1329.

IF WP did not include the drink buff (which seems to be the most common explanation for the bug) , the observed result would be: (596+(129+16.5%)+15%)+410=1268, i.e. lower than the observed results.

---

My conclusion therefore is:
WP removes the CP bonus from the drink buffs.

Unfortunately, I can't enter the non-CP campaign to see how it works (even though I have no guest campaign - go figure) and confirm my assumption.

Any thoughts?

Yiko

Asayre wrote: »

I thought the equation for stat pool is


and that for recovery is

Willows counts as Other Skills. But stuff like Major Intellect, Recovery, Spell charge, Magicka Controller were all Skills.

They was I see it both work similarly. Drinks/Food only get buffed by Skills.

Soulac wrote: »

Stamina Recovery as it SHOULD be:
FlatStaminaReg * StaminaCP * StaminaPassives * EquipBonus

How it actually is
(FlatStamReg - Drinkbuff) * StaminaCP * StaminaPassives * EquipBonus + DrinkBuff * StaminaPassives

Magica Recovery formula is completely different as you probably figured out.
Light Armor passives don´t give a damn about Drink Bonus either.

I found this in another Willow's thread.
I'm not sure if the formulas listed above are currently correct after my tests just now.

I unequipped all of my Medium Armor on my Redguard (9% Recovery) Stamina Nightblade (15% recovery) with 30 CP in Mooncalf (10.8% recovery).

With CP, before I used my drink (493 Stamina Recovery), I was at 1189 Stamina Recovery. After, I was at 1854.
1854 - 1189 = 665
Which is 493 * (1+0.09+0.15+0.108)
493 * (1.348) = 664.56

Without CP, it went as such:
1703 - 1092 = 611
Which is 493 * (1+0.09+0.15)
493 * (1.24) = 611.32

I imagine if you tested it with 7 Medium Armor (28% Recovery) in the first equation I provided, the difference between Stamina Recovery would be:
493 * (1+0.09+0.15+0.108+0.28) =
493 * (1.628) = 802.60 or 803 rounded up.

I know Willow's Path affects things like base recovery, so in regards to Soulac's equation, perhaps StaminaCP has to be consolidated into the StaminaPassives side of the drink equation. I can't say anything about the left side, as I don't feel like removing my character's skills and gradually adding/noting recovery.

In my initial post, by "SR base," I meant the total Stamina Recovery on my Character page before using a drink or Willow's 5 piece, so that includes CP, passives, and things like Serpent Mundus.


If the difference between (SR base + drink) - (SR base) and (SR base + willow + drink) - (SR base + willow) is equal, it means that Willow's only affected a certain portion of Stamina Recovery, but it was NOT the drinks.
So it's like (X + Z) - (X) = Z and then (XY+Z) - (XY) = Z
X is the culmination of all recovery on your character before Willow's
Y = Willow's Path 15%
Z = Drink Recovery after all relevant calculations

In my initial post, you can see that everytime I added Willow's to my "X" Recovery, it increased by 15%. Example: 1644 to 1890.

Currently, Willow's Path does not affect the drink side of the equation.

Arthg

I see.

Very, very interesting.

My observations are based on heavy armour, not medium, actually.

I do observe the same differences as you: (Base+WP)-Base for food is the same as (Base+WP)-Base for drinks: 261.
So clearly you're right.I couldn't get where the value 1332 came from.
It seems to be then: Base with Willow (857) + (410+CP%), which should be 1334, not 1332.
So I'm still missing something there.

Anyway.
Too bad this set does not include drinks then, it's just such a great set

Yiko

Arthg wrote: »

Too bad this set does not include drinks then, it's just such a great set

Yeah, I was considering running it next patch if it were fixed. IIRC ZOS has acknowledged that it was bugged, but I still haven't heard anything about a fix.

Anazasi

Why do players feel this set should adjust recovery when using a drink? I recall this argument a year ago and ZOS was pretty clear on the sets intended use and that consumables were not part of the equation. Don't understand this argument again other than someone feels they are entitled to more.

Yiko

Anazasi wrote: »

Why do players feel this set should adjust recovery when using a drink? I recall this argument a year ago and ZOS was pretty clear on the sets intended use and that consumables were not part of the equation. Don't understand this argument again other than someone feels they are entitled to more.

Could I get a source? Last I heard was that it was confirmed bugged. Maybe that bug became a feature.
And because of sets like Amberplasm and other sets with big powercreep which vastly outweigh this one's 5 piece?

DHale

Will guys quit bothering the community managers about stuff like this, they are not developers that is not their departments. They have no say into itemization.

Soulac

Anazasi wrote: »

Why do players feel this set should adjust recovery when using a drink? I recall this argument a year ago and ZOS was pretty clear on the sets intended use and that consumables were not part of the equation. Don't understand this argument again other than someone feels they are entitled to more.

Don´t spread false information.
ZOS confirmed it as a bug back then but didn´t receive a fix yet.

Though I thought it was fixed already.. well lets start counting again! 1 Year 5 Months! Lets see if we can reach the magical 2 years.

Yiko

Soulac wrote: »

[Though I thought it was fixed already.. well lets start counting again! 1 Year 5 Months! Lets see if we can reach the magical 2 years.

2 years the dream?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Lending my voice to this thread.

Hi. My name is Yolo. I want willow's path fixed. Make it so.

thank you!

Alcast

I tried willows path.... the 5 piece bonus is so bad..... it gave me like 200-300 Recovery.... and that was with a 3k Stam Rec setup lol.

I guess back into the trunk!

OutLaw_Nynx

Sad. I enjoy using this on my lowbies when I'm questing/leveling

Ragnaroek93

Willows Path is a bad joke compared to other sustain sets like Amberplasm, Bone Pirate or Lich. It's not even worth using it on high regen builds.

Yiko

Alcast wrote: »

I tried willows path.... the 5 piece bonus is so bad..... it gave me like 200-300 Recovery.... and that was with a 3k Stam Rec setup lol.

I guess back into the trunk!

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Willows Path is a bad joke compared to other sustain sets like Amberplasm, Bone Pirate or Lich. It's not even worth using it on high regen builds.

Yeah, that's why I was really hoping it could be fixed to work with drinks and Troll King for actual value.

Amberplasm has 600 stats in its 5 piece. 600/129 for basic set bonus = 4.65 value
Hundings: 299/129 = 2.31
Bone Pirate: 2000/967 + 300/129 = 2.07 + 2.33 = 4.29
Willow's currently gives my heavy Stam Recovery build around 250 Stam Recovery, 100 Mag Recovery, and 75 health recovery. So that's 425/129 = 3.29. Letting it work with drinks/food would push it up to around 4.3, so it'd be more on par with the power creeped sets, but this is even weighing health recovery as a full value 129 stat (which is debatable).

Ragnaroek93

Yiko wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I tried willows path.... the 5 piece bonus is so bad..... it gave me like 200-300 Recovery.... and that was with a 3k Stam Rec setup lol.

I guess back into the trunk!

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Willows Path is a bad joke compared to other sustain sets like Amberplasm, Bone Pirate or Lich. It's not even worth using it on high regen builds.

Yeah, that's why I was really hoping it could be fixed to work with drinks and Troll King for actual value.

Amberplasm has 600 stats in its 5 piece. 600/129 for basic set bonus = 4.65 value
Hundings: 299/129 = 2.31
Bone Pirate: 2000/967 + 300/129 = 2.07 + 2.33 = 4.29
Willow's currently gives my heavy Stam Recovery build around 250 Stam Recovery, 100 Mag Recovery, and 75 health recovery. So that's 425/129 = 3.29. Letting it work with drinks/food would push it up to around 4.3, so it'd be more on par with the power creeped sets, but this is even weighing health recovery as a full value 129 stat (which is debatable).

I don't know, % reg just seems to scale so bad. They could just give the 5p bonus 150-200 mag, stam and health reg, to be more on par with other sets.

Derra

Pathetic.

Mr_Nobody

Better nerf Radiant Destruction

Yiko

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Better nerf Radiant Destruction

But muh crutches

Yiko

bump

Yolokin_Swagonborn

ZOS probably ran some numbers and found out that less than 3% of players use willows path so they decided it wasn't a priority to fix it.

Taleof2Cities

DHale wrote: »

Will guys quit bothering the community managers about stuff like this, they are not developers that is not their departments. They have no say into itemization.

Regarding this comment:

The Community Managers are the players' liaison between us and the devs. That's their job ... to "manage the community". Tagging them helps us get our concerns forwarded quickly and to the right department at ZOS.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Will guys quit bothering the community managers about stuff like this, they are not developers that is not their departments. They have no say into itemization.

Regarding this comment:

The Community Managers are the players' liaison between us and the devs. That's their job ... to "manage the community". Tagging them helps us get our concerns forwarded quickly and to the right department at ZOS.

Are they? I think I need a refresher on what exactly the "community managers" do and can do. Also how were they selected and from what demographics. I don't recall seeing anyone I recognize from the PvP community as a manager.

I would want to avoid assuming they have some duty to us or powers over ZOS that they just don't have.

Taleof2Cities

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Are they? I think I need a refresher on what exactly the "community managers" do and can do. Also how were they selected and from what demographics. I don't recall seeing anyone I recognize from the PvP community as a manager.

I would want to avoid assuming they have some duty to us or powers over ZOS that they just don't have.

Be careful not to take my post out of context.

The definition of liaison is "a communication or cooperation that focuses on a close working relationship between people" ... in other words our (players) communication link to the devs. This is not some overreaching power they have over ZOS.

You're a regular forum-goer here, @Yolokin_Swagonborn ... so I would hope by now that you have seen Gina, Jessica, and Kai answering and routing PvP questions in the Forums and other ESO mediums.

Back on topic: I hope this issue with Willow's Path is fixed soon. OP has done some additional testing (and added maths) behind why it is still broken.

Yiko

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Back on topic: I hope this issue with Willow's Path is fixed soon. OP has done some additional testing (and added maths) behind why it is still broken.

Yeah, I'm not asking for ZOS to rebalance the currently underpowered crafted sets, but bug fixing should at least be of a little concern hopefully.