Heavy Attack (Stam return)

Durham

From my testing on test this nerf is to severe... Can we have a conversation on 40%- 35% rather then 25%...

Please keep in mind we were encouraged to heavy attack to get Stam back this forced Heavy Armer users to drop defense to get back resources... I always thought this was a wonderful change in combat...

On test server I made a red guard with heavy armor without blackrose... using heavy attack I saw my resource recovery suffer way to much this will force me to drop a ton of points in the champ tree to make up some of it...

I really like the way ZOS does nerfs in this game they take it in steps to help alleviate over nerfs... I would like to see a smaller nerf increment here....

pieratsos

Durham wrote: »

From my testing on test this nerf is to severe... Can we have a conversation on 40%- 35% rather then 25%...

Please keep in mind we were encouraged to heavy attack to get Stam back this forced Heavy Armer users to drop defense to get back resources... I always thought this was a wonderful change in combat...

On test server I made a red guard with heavy armor without blackrose... using heavy attack I saw my resource recovery suffer way to much this will force me to drop a ton of points in the champ tree to make up some of it...

I really like the way ZOS does nerfs in this game they take it in steps to help alleviate over nerfs... I would like to see a smaller nerf increment here....

So you are saying you wont be able to go full dmg anymore and instead you will have to actually build for some sustain. And you think this is actually a bad thing? Lol

NoFlash

That was the whole purpose of the change. Makes it more balanced now.

Durham

pieratsos wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

From my testing on test this nerf is to severe... Can we have a conversation on 40%- 35% rather then 25%...

Please keep in mind we were encouraged to heavy attack to get Stam back this forced Heavy Armer users to drop defense to get back resources... I always thought this was a wonderful change in combat...

On test server I made a red guard with heavy armor without blackrose... using heavy attack I saw my resource recovery suffer way to much this will force me to drop a ton of points in the champ tree to make up some of it...

I really like the way ZOS does nerfs in this game they take it in steps to help alleviate over nerfs... I would like to see a smaller nerf increment here....

So you are saying you wont be able to go full dmg anymore and instead you will have to actually build for some sustain. And you think this is actually a bad thing? Lol

LOL funny sustain does you no good while blocking ... so yes it is ... heavy attacking make you drop defense a ton of builds are running 15k spell pen and will light you up if not blocking

Durham

EvoAZN wrote: »

That was the whole purpose of the change. Makes it more balanced now.

I agree with the change but the amount of the change I do not... I think we also have becareful... there was a time not long ago when heavy was not used in pvp...

Ragnaroek93

Welcome to the world of medium and light armor, where you can't wreck everything with 600 regen

pieratsos

Durham wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

From my testing on test this nerf is to severe... Can we have a conversation on 40%- 35% rather then 25%...

Please keep in mind we were encouraged to heavy attack to get Stam back this forced Heavy Armer users to drop defense to get back resources... I always thought this was a wonderful change in combat...

On test server I made a red guard with heavy armor without blackrose... using heavy attack I saw my resource recovery suffer way to much this will force me to drop a ton of points in the champ tree to make up some of it...

I really like the way ZOS does nerfs in this game they take it in steps to help alleviate over nerfs... I would like to see a smaller nerf increment here....

So you are saying you wont be able to go full dmg anymore and instead you will have to actually build for some sustain. And you think this is actually a bad thing? Lol

LOL funny sustain does you no good while blocking ... so yes it is ... heavy attacking make you drop defense a ton of builds are running 15k spell pen and will light you up if not blocking

So you want to have enough sustain to permablock without even using heavy attacks. Great. You made it look better now.

Solariken

I'm glad ZOS is taking some steps to limit the offensive potential of heavy armor, but the change to heavy attack resource return really only negatively affects heavy armor Stamplars IMO, pushing them further away from the ability to use it effectively. It does almost nothing to limit the resource return of the other stamina classes while in heavy thanks to Dark Deal, Helping Hands, and Siphoning Attacks.

I don't see this change having a big impact on heavy armor sustain for magicka classes.

Dracane

Durham wrote: »

this will force me to drop a ton of points in the champ tree to make up some of it...

If this means, that you now have to think and actually invest into sustain like everyone else, then I say that's a great change.
Goal accomplished.

Cinbri

It is nice and much needed change. Currently Tenacity passive is weak now, with this change on CP campaign you may finally start to invest there and on no-CP heavy attacks will stop be so strong.

RoyJade

Solariken wrote: »

I'm glad ZOS is taking some steps to limit the offensive potential of heavy armor, but the change to heavy attack resource return really only negatively affects heavy armor Stamplars IMO, pushing them further away from the ability to use it effectively.

In this case, is stamplar sustain who need some tweak, which I (and a lot of people) agree. That's would benefit medium spamplar also, who really need this help.

Durham

Dracane wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

this will force me to drop a ton of points in the champ tree to make up some of it...

If this means, that you now have to think and actually invest into sustain like everyone else, then I say that's a great change.
Goal accomplished.

Again sustain works only if you do not block . If I go sustain I will not wear heavy AND most will not .. ... I like the change to reduce the amount from 50% ... but in a smaller increments..From testing on test server a 50% nerf will force more people to keep block up and kill this aspect of the game..... Heavy attacking helped promote tanks to drop defense.... I'm not sure some of you understand what I'm saying...

Having to drop block return stamina was a plus in the way combat works in this game...

But I also do not like permanent blocking nor do I want high defense doing high damage... I think sets have more to do with this vs. passives ....

I play magicka and stamina ... just trying to make a constructive point on some of the testing that I have done... but it seems as of now most do not share my thoughts on testing or not tested this aspect at all.

Durham

RoyJade wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I'm glad ZOS is taking some steps to limit the offensive potential of heavy armor, but the change to heavy attack resource return really only negatively affects heavy armor Stamplars IMO, pushing them further away from the ability to use it effectively.

In this case, is stamplar sustain who need some tweak, which I (and a lot of people) agree. That's would benefit medium spamplar also, who really need this help.

I'm hoping the cost reduction in bitting jabs helps with that ... but maybe a heavy attack stam return buff on temp ability might help..

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

RoyJade wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I'm glad ZOS is taking some steps to limit the offensive potential of heavy armor, but the change to heavy attack resource return really only negatively affects heavy armor Stamplars IMO, pushing them further away from the ability to use it effectively.

In this case, is stamplar sustain who need some tweak, which I (and a lot of people) agree. That's would benefit medium spamplar also, who really need this help.

Wait don't templars have a passive for reduced abilities cost? When promoting Templar sustain, have you first tried a dragon knight?

If Templar sustain is to be buffed, then so does DK sustain.

Own

Durham wrote: »

From my testing on test this nerf is to severe... Can we have a conversation on 40%- 35% rather then 25%...

Please keep in mind we were encouraged to heavy attack to get Stam back this forced Heavy Armer users to drop defense to get back resources... I always thought this was a wonderful change in combat...

On test server I made a red guard with heavy armor without blackrose... using heavy attack I saw my resource recovery suffer way to much this will force me to drop a ton of points in the champ tree to make up some of it...

I really like the way ZOS does nerfs in this game they take it in steps to help alleviate over nerfs... I would like to see a smaller nerf increment here....

I was able to stay offensive by weaving and gain resources with 50%. try it with suprise attacks. you gain 1k stam every rotation. better yet, go to azuras then come back!

Valencer

Heavy armour is still way too strong tbh. This nerf is a step in the right direction.

Rohaus

@Valencer

A tank is a tank and that is all they are able to do. A good tank brings some form of utility or even group buffs + debuffs.

However, I play as all heavy with trying to be more offensively oriented. When I do not hold block, I am very vulnerable. I can die quite fast.

There are often times when I wonder what the point of Heavy Armor is when there are indeed so many builds running around with high amounts of penetration.

If you actually think HA is too strong... I suggest you look into changing your build to combat heavy armor.

SnubbS

Rohaus wrote: »

@Valencer

A tank is a tank and that is all they are able to do. A good tank brings some form of utility or even group buffs + debuffs.

However, I play as all heavy with trying to be more offensively oriented. When I do not hold block, I am very vulnerable. I can die quite fast.

There are often times when I wonder what the point of Heavy Armor is when there are indeed so many builds running around with high amounts of penetration.

If you actually think HA is too strong... I suggest you look into changing your build to combat heavy armor.

You have literally no clue. HA is insane.

Rohaus

Durham wrote: »

Again sustain works only if you do not block . If I go sustain I will not wear heavy AND most will not .. ... I like the change to reduce the amount from 50% ... but in a smaller increments..From testing on test server a 50% nerf will force more people to keep block up and kill this aspect of the game..... Heavy attacking helped promote tanks to drop defense.... I'm not sure some of you understand what I'm saying...

Having to drop block return stamina was a plus in the way combat works in this game...

But I also do not like permanent blocking nor do I want high defense doing high damage... I think sets have more to do with this vs. passives ....

I play magicka and stamina ... just trying to make a constructive point on some of the testing that I have done... but it seems as of now most do not share my thoughts on testing or not tested this aspect at all.

I bolded the piece of what you said that I highly agree with! When I PvP, I tend to build in a way that my heavy attacks mean something... I can do solid damage but I open myself up to burst damage. Even still... trying to land a heavy attack in big zerg fights... LOL... is highly ineffective... but it was a way for me to build my stam back up.

In the end, what makes this game so frustrating is the small window... a split second typically against good players... that you have to actually finish someone off... all because of what is really OP in this game and that is healing.

leepalmer95

Templar sustain is fine, the moment you stop trying to play like a broke stam sorc with 600 regen full dmg set up.

Throw on some cost reduction or some regen, heavy stamplar works fine with repentance + 1200~ regen.

Well to sustain, it's a concept most stam builds have forgot about for 6 months.

Valencer

Rohaus wrote: »

@Valencer

A tank is a tank and that is all they are able to do. A good tank brings some form of utility or even group buffs + debuffs.

However, I play as all heavy with trying to be more offensively oriented. When I do not hold block, I am very vulnerable. I can die quite fast.

There are often times when I wonder what the point of Heavy Armor is when there are indeed so many builds running around with high amounts of penetration.

If you actually think HA is too strong... I suggest you look into changing your build to combat heavy armor.

Ive been running 7 heavy for a while now. Dont need to learn to counter it when Im using it myself...

Funnily enough I do more damage and am way more survivable in my heavy armour build compared to my medium armour build. Block is far more sustainable in heavy armour than roll dodge is in medium armour, and you still dont need to spec for sustain in heavy. Couldnt get my stam regen lower even if I tried.

Paraflex

You shouldn't have great sustain or damage wearing heavy....you should only have good mitigation and survivibility and that's all....it's a good nerf I wish they hit it harder!

Domander

Oh... you are talking about heavy armor.... try it in medium.

Xsorus

A Heavy Armor user should have great Sustain, That's like basically the entire point of heavy, to maintain during a fight...It never made sense in the first place for Heavy Armor to run out of resources and die defeating the purpose of the armor set.

With that said....The Previous Heavy Attack wasn't overpowered....What was overpowered was Restro Staff + Heavy Armor.

Czirne

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I'm glad ZOS is taking some steps to limit the offensive potential of heavy armor, but the change to heavy attack resource return really only negatively affects heavy armor Stamplars IMO, pushing them further away from the ability to use it effectively.

In this case, is stamplar sustain who need some tweak, which I (and a lot of people) agree. That's would benefit medium spamplar also, who really need this help.

Wait don't templars have a passive for reduced abilities cost? When promoting Templar sustain, have you first tried a dragon knight?

If Templar sustain is to be buffed, then so does DK sustain.

Is this a joke?

PurifedBladez

Even with this nerf HA is still good i doubt a lot of people will change their builds even after the update. This thread proved why this nerf needed to happen anyways.

Anti_Virus

Meh, Keeping nerfing Heavy its a L2P issue imo but i'll still use it.

And they will still QQ

usmcjdking

Xsorus wrote: »

A Heavy Armor user should have great Sustain, That's like basically the entire point of heavy, to maintain during a fight...It never made sense in the first place for Heavy Armor to run out of resources and die defeating the purpose of the armor set.

With that said....The Previous Heavy Attack wasn't overpowered....What was overpowered was Restro Staff + Heavy Armor.

HA's sustain should come from the lack of a need to break free/roll dodge/ward at such a fast tempo like it's armor counterparts.

Not from the virtue of being heavy armor. And yes, the HA resource return was blatantly overpowered. A HA stam DK can just chew a lingering pot and slam you with 7k Heavy/Dizzy while sitting at near full stam without needing to do anything other than pop the occassional vigor when his opponent bursts. A medium armor stam DK would do an 8k Heavy/8k Dizzy and then get one-shot by some magelight empowered stamblade.