Dont kill the Hybrid play , give us something..

RouDeR

After the nerf of traine my hybrid sorco with 22k magika and 36k stam would not be able to fully enjoy using the Swarm mother set pulling pple to mines and trolling around , it just breakes my heart so my suggestion is:
Create a hybrit set with the folowing bonuses
1: max health
2: stamina recovery
3: magica recovery
4: 75% of your weapon and spell damage is converted in stamina and magika

For example if the user have 4000 wpd and 2000 spd this will result in 3000 stamina and 1500 magika , or if using pelenal to even the both wpd and spd around 3k this will result in 2250 magica and stamina

Ahzek

Thats a very interesting idea.
However, I think this set will suffer from the same issues that trainee does. Either the stats it provides will be too low to make an impact on hybrid builds, or it will be so high, that many other builds will use it as well. For example at 75% a magicka sorc with his ~3k-4k spell damage would read this set as gain 2250-3000 magicka, a quite desireable bonus. And considering the other side there are stam builds who can push over 4k weapon damage without too much of an issue, which in turn brings up the comparison to draugr hulk.

To avoid such a dilemma, I propose any of these changes to the 5 piece bonus:

1. "Gain 75% of your spell damage as stamina and 75% of your weapon damage as magicka"
This would mean there is no difference in effect for pelinals users and the set will be much harder to utilize for non pelinal builds. Sadly this would also include hybrids that do not want to use pelinals.

2. "Gain 37.5% of the sum of your spell damage and weapon damage as magicka and stamina"
Again there would be no difference for Pelinal users here, but it also suffers from the same issue concerning the viability for other hybrids.


That said, I think no other "true" hybrids than Pelinals builds exist at the moment, which is an issue in itself, but this is not going to get better anytime soon.

usmcjdking

I outlined hybrids in my thread a few days back asking for some adjustments to how pelinal's modifies your lowest damage as well as equalizing crit chance.

Derra

Just a thought:

Why not get rid of the concept of differentiate between weapon- and spelldamage and just have one dmg stat as already the case for weapons.

Then make the pelials 5 piece setbonus give you physical dmg cp = magical dmg cp.

LadyNalcarya

Dont kill the Hybrid play

What is dead may never die.

Rex-Umbra

Really thought Hybrid was going to get love this update but nope

idk

@RouDeR

Any set that has a balanced build and 2 slots if recovery would be weak for PvE. PvE dps builds that are decent do. It add recovery. Ofc anything is fine for solo.

Zakor

Hybrid build suffer 3 major problems:

1. Two damage values to invest into
2. Two ressources (and corresponding regen ofc)
3. Two CRITvalues

So bring hybrids back you would need something that would tie those 3 together WITHOUT buffing a pure build. And exactly that is the problem here.

You need to create something that is powerfull enough to bring hybrid builds back back but damn weak if used by a pure build. Something like the following could work:

5-Set Bonus: Duality
If your first ability in combat is a magicka ability, all your stamina abilities will gain 75% of your spell damage, spell crit and magicka pool until the end of combat. If your first ability is a stamina ability, all your magicka abilites will gain 75% of your weapon damage, weapon crit and stamina pool instead.

This way you could build towards one damage and have enough power for the other side of the medal.

Boni 2-4:
Increases Weapon and Spell damage (~100)
Increases Stamina and Magicka (~700)
Increases Stamina recovery and Magicka recovery (~100)

As you see those stats are a bit lower than going full main stat but apply to both attributes which gives hybrid builds more power in the end.

caperon

Remove damage scalling from resources. BOOOOM problem solved.

zyk

If hybrid builds are not organically effective within the rules of the game, I don't think this should be addressed by sets that grant a disproportionately high number of total stats either directly or through the method described in the OP.

If the designers want "hybrid" builds to be useful in ESO, that should be addressed at a rule level. For example, by reintroducing soft caps.

I put hybrid in quotations because I get the feeling not everyone is talking about the same thing. I don't really see gameplay value in a build designed to damage opponents with both stamina and magicka attacks.

With that said, I have frequently used Magicka damage builds that facilitate the use of stamina utility with stam regen and/or larger than normal stam pools. I have done the reverse with Stam damage builds. Is that not hybrid? If so, hybrids do have a lot of value.

Furthermore, friends and guildmates have designed interesting low-damage utility builds that make frequent use of both Stamina and Magicka utility and heals. Are these not hybrids? I would call them so. They are difference makers in competitive PVP groups. So, here too, hybrids are effective.

I think the means of achieving these builds require fair compromises.

LadyNalcarya

caperon wrote: »

Remove damage scalling from resources. BOOOOM problem solved.

BOOM its not. There's also
1)crit value
2)cps
3)regen and cost reduction, after all.

usmcjdking

There are some unimaginative minds in here.

Hybrids are not unplayable.

LadyNalcarya

usmcjdking wrote: »

There are some unimaginative minds in here.

Hybrids are not unplayable.

Thats actually pretty low considering that Maw doesnt have lightning resists and that you were fully buffed.

usmcjdking

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

There are some unimaginative minds in here.

Hybrids are not unplayable.

Thats actually pretty low considering that Maw doesnt have lightning resists and that you were fully buffed.

By all means post yours.

caperon

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Remove damage scalling from resources. BOOOOM problem solved.

BOOM its not. There's also
1)crit value
2)cps
3)regen and cost reduction, after all.

First of all, my coments on hybrids is for PVP, the only hybrids that have interest for me in pve are tanks.

I admit Im biased because i only PVP in Azura, where you avoid 1 the biggest problem with hybrids, CP allocation (until we have like 1000CP, then hybrids can go back to trueflame xD). In this conditions, the removing of damage scalling from resources would make my build (pelinal + trainee focused on stamina) mostly on par with others. Being in PVP, crit is not that important and regen is the trade you do for using 2 pools of resources.

Another thing that would help hybrids is softcaps, but i don't see that hapening.

usmcjdking

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Remove damage scalling from resources. BOOOOM problem solved.

BOOM its not. There's also
1)crit value
2)cps
3)regen and cost reduction, after all.

1) I suggested in my thread Pelinal's equalize crit chance as well. This actually won't change the need to have both a source of Major Prophecy and Major Savagery, but it does allow us to use 5PC sets to include something like Scathing Mage

2) CPs are also addressed in my post. Hybrid will only begin to outscale straight builds post 900cp when the only useful DPS star for straight builds will be the light/heavy attack stars (for a majority of builds).

3) A hybrids regen will be naturally high, anyways. 5pc Pelnials gives two lines of glorious regen that gives us quite a bit. Hell my parse shows I gained more stamina per second than I consumed.

My offstat (magicka if you're in medium, stamina if you're in light) is relatively higher, but otherwise pretty low. Potions and ele drain can easily make up for that. That's a 2 min parse in medium armor with no ele drain and relying entirely on spell power pots for magicka sustain and while I had a few issues due to Daedric Prey, nothing that I would consider build breaking.

Doctordarkspawn

The list of things to make viable:

Hybrids

Pure Bow DPS without specific gear drops

Twohander DPS without the same

Healtanks beyond saptanks and mostly-block BOL spamming Templars. (Or tanks with a active rotation in general.)

Faulgor

usmcjdking wrote: »

There are some unimaginative minds in here.

Hybrids are not unplayable.

I suppose a similar build could work for DKs?

usmcjdking

Faulgor wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

There are some unimaginative minds in here.

Hybrids are not unplayable.

I suppose a similar build could work for DKs?

Yes! All classes!

Some haters will say "lol 36k", but 36k buffed is no small feat when both your resource pools are sub 30k and your buffed crit values are ~50%. Not only that, but 36k even buffed is enough to get through any dungeon, VDSA and any veteran craglorn trial and pull your own weight. Anyone telling you any different is full of it.

If you are interested you can PM me or send me an ingame tell/mail @usmcjdking and we can throw a build together. Bear in mind that hybrids have an incredibly unfriendly skill cap and gear requirement, but if its a hope of yours to run an effective hybrid it can be done.

Or, for the haters, you are more than welcome to duel my hybrid at anytime. I offer free trips to the dumpster at all times of the day.

LadyNalcarya

usmcjdking wrote: »

By all means post yours.

Post Bloodspawn parse first. Or, even better, a vet trial parse. Maw of the Infernal have never been a dps benchmark, especially not for sorcs, especially not for sorcs with BiS weapons and very high uptime of raid buffs.

nordsavage

Funny that you think hybrid play is dead only now. They killed that back on 1.5.

Tannus15

caperon wrote: »

Remove damage scalling from resources. BOOOOM problem solved.

This is the biggest problem with hybrid builds.
There is no getting around the dps loss from splitting attributes.

You can do whatever you want with gear and skills but you'll always be better off with a single main stat until damage scaling from resources is removed.

usmcjdking

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

By all means post yours.

Post Bloodspawn parse first. Or, even better, a vet trial parse. Maw of the Infernal have never been a dps benchmark, especially not for sorcs, especially not for sorcs with BiS weapons and very high uptime of raid buffs.

Sounds like a great idea.

Why don't you show me how and post your hybrid deeps parse?

LadyNalcarya

usmcjdking wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

By all means post yours.

Post Bloodspawn parse first. Or, even better, a vet trial parse. Maw of the Infernal have never been a dps benchmark, especially not for sorcs, especially not for sorcs with BiS weapons and very high uptime of raid buffs.

Sounds like a great idea.

Why don't you show me how and post your hybrid deeps parse?

Cause Im a non-hybrid healer :P But I see what sorcs (both mag and stam) can do with top notch gear and buffs so...
No, for average standarts 36k on deadroth is cool and all.. But for a stamsorc vMA dual wield build its not that high. Everything is relative.

usmcjdking

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

By all means post yours.

Post Bloodspawn parse first. Or, even better, a vet trial parse. Maw of the Infernal have never been a dps benchmark, especially not for sorcs, especially not for sorcs with BiS weapons and very high uptime of raid buffs.

Sounds like a great idea.

Why don't you show me how and post your hybrid deeps parse?

Cause Im a non-hybrid healer :P But I see what sorcs (both mag and stam) can do with top notch gear and buffs so...
No, for average standarts 36k on deadroth is cool and all.. But for a stamsorc vMA dual wield build its not that high. Everything is relative.

I don't understand what your point is other than being "36k is bad and you should feel bad for posting it".

Well, I don't. So unless there is some hybrid build out there doing well above what I posted, then I don't see why your argument has any merit.

Hybrid doesn't compete with straight builds is what you mean perhaps? Well color me surprised. At no point did I infer, state or even go so far as to latently suggest such. But a 36k parse is great for a 3-beer-in build that you can call your own. You know how many hybrid DPS I see out there doing pledges or Craglorn trials?

Me, myself and I. And I would hope and encourage more people to explore the monstrous possibilities and combinations hybrids offer. But then you have people like yourself who will pollute a thread and attempt to dissuade anyone from doing such. You have offered no information, no legitimate advice, no build critique as to the state of hybrids in this thread.

So, in the meantime post your own parse or please let people who like to try stuff out discuss it amongst ourselves without your unwanted interference. Perhaps if you would have just simply asked me to post a Bloodspawn parse I would in a reasonable amount of time. But not here in this thread and most certainly not with your attitude.

Good day to you sir.