Easy Mode Mag Sorc PVE build

xynode

New easy mode pve build for mag sorc. High single target, high aoe and incredible easy rotations for max damage while having pretty much unlimited resources!
A few have messed in the past with lightning damage etc but this is a full setup focusing FULLY on that making it incredibley powerful and efficient. A break from the meta.This works in trials, dungeons, maelstrom and just about everything you throw at it, group OR solo!
I hope you guys like it.

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_33XIPI9tk

Martol

nice build, it would be cool to see a selfbuffed dps test to see what this can pull for sure!

MartinDeShade

Why don't people put at least something written. You could have at least named your sets.

Tremors

This build man its pretty decent for Pre-One Tam. Used to run this before Illambris came out. You can see a much improved version of this since one tam dropped in my sig. I guess my only issue is, you make a build that can be played from 28m away and you add rearming trap? Why would you play at melee range if you're not on a melee build. Also not taking advantage of the class minor prophecy buff for other members of your group (unless there's another sorc). I guess more appropriate for solo or casual play? @hedna123b14_ESO

iam_slickone

I watched your video earlier today, at first i was kinda surprised at the limited amount of skills you are running but after watching it it makes sense. Seems like a really easy way to play, i wanna give it a try. My problem is i dont have VMA weapons and no IA lighting staff

hedna123b14_ESO

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

This build man its pretty decent for Pre-One Tam. Used to run this before Illambris came out. You can see a much improved version of this since one tam dropped in my sig. I guess my only issue is, you make a build that can be played from 28m away and you add rearming trap? Why would you play at melee range if you're not on a melee build. Also not taking advantage of the class minor prophecy buff for other members of your group (unless there's another sorc). I guess more appropriate for solo or casual play? @hedna123b14_ESO

This looks like a lesser version of the build I was running 3 DLC's ago. If he were to add Curse it would be exactly that build. It tops out at 40k on first and second boss of vMoL and at 33k on rakkat. 50k's are not possible with this build, so it is unfortunately subpar which is why I took it off my guide 2 DLC ago and swapped to a flame staff build. It is wonderful for solo play/vMA and I have even seen PvP applications of it, but it has no place in high end trial groups, because of the low dps and the low utility, since vulnerability is already provided by the healer (or lightning damage in the next update).

xynode

Martol wrote: »

nice build, it would be cool to see a selfbuffed dps test to see what this can pull for sure!

Thank you! check the link in the description of the video, jack from our trial team used it (before the aether and kena set up, 2x maelstrom staves) by his admition he could have still knocked off a couple secs:)

xynode

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

This build man its pretty decent for Pre-One Tam. Used to run this before Illambris came out. You can see a much improved version of this since one tam dropped in my sig. I guess my only issue is, you make a build that can be played from 28m away and you add rearming trap? Why would you play at melee range if you're not on a melee build. Also not taking advantage of the class minor prophecy buff for other members of your group (unless there's another sorc). I guess more appropriate for solo or casual play? @hedna123b14_ESO

I did note in the video that you use beast traps for close quarters, close adds but if you are not ina stack up situations then you can switch it out for boundless or whatever else (even the curse if you like). Also if you play at 28m you are not reaching with your wall of elements.

xynode

iam_slickone wrote: »

I watched your video earlier today, at first i was kinda surprised at the limited amount of skills you are running but after watching it it makes sense. Seems like a really easy way to play, i wanna give it a try. My problem is i dont have VMA weapons and no IA lighting staff

Thank you I am glad you took the time to watch it fully, as clearly some others have done exactly as i noted in the begining( not watched it all and complained lol).

I hope you like how this plays and don't worry, the VMA is a BIG part of the build however you can complete vma with this setup without it while farming it. The damage will be a fair bit less but it will still work for solo play and dungeons until you get it

Masel

iam_slickone wrote: »

I watched your video earlier today, at first i was kinda surprised at the limited amount of skills you are running but after watching it it makes sense. Seems like a really easy way to play, i wanna give it a try. My problem is i dont have VMA weapons and no IA lighting staff

If you want a build that centers around vMA and uses this strategy, you can give mine a go: it does less single target damage, but is more forgiving and doesn't necessarily require vMA weapons:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3536396#Comment_3536396

xynode

Masel92 wrote: »

show previous quotes

iam_slickone wrote: »

I watched your video earlier today, at first i was kinda surprised at the limited amount of skills you are running but after watching it it makes sense. Seems like a really easy way to play, i wanna give it a try. My problem is i dont have VMA weapons and no IA lighting staff

If you want a build that centers around vMA and uses this strategy, you can give mine a go: it does less single target damage, but is more forgiving and doesn't necessarily require vMA weapons:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3536396#Comment_3536396

Elegant and aether! very nice old school set up, used to love maelstrom with that, fun in pvp too. Less damage overall yes but the heavy attacks are awesome! nice one !

Tremors

xynode wrote: »

show previous quotes

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

This build man its pretty decent for Pre-One Tam. Used to run this before Illambris came out. You can see a much improved version of this since one tam dropped in my sig. I guess my only issue is, you make a build that can be played from 28m away and you add rearming trap? Why would you play at melee range if you're not on a melee build. Also not taking advantage of the class minor prophecy buff for other members of your group (unless there's another sorc). I guess more appropriate for solo or casual play? @hedna123b14_ESO

I did note in the video that you use beast traps for close quarters, close adds but if you are not ina stack up situations then you can switch it out for boundless or whatever else (even the curse if you like). Also if you play at 28m you are not reaching with your wall of elements.

xynode wrote: »

show previous quotes

iam_slickone wrote: »

I watched your video earlier today, at first i was kinda surprised at the limited amount of skills you are running but after watching it it makes sense. Seems like a really easy way to play, i wanna give it a try. My problem is i dont have VMA weapons and no IA lighting staff

Thank you I am glad you took the time to watch it fully, as clearly some others have done exactly as i noted in the begining( not watched it all and complained lol).

I hope you like how this plays and don't worry, the VMA is a BIG part of the build however you can complete vma with this setup without it while farming it. The damage will be a fair bit less but it will still work for solo play and dungeons until you get it

Yeah I didn't watch all 33mins of a video that I could have read in 5mins if it was typed, so I flicked through to gear, rotation and CP.

Like I said, this build is fine but not built for end game group content. When taking a non meta approach to end game content, there needs to be a reason to run the build for the group, more than just for yourself. It also needs to perform on par or if not on par individually, it needs to have a reason for slightly under-performing, which in turn may help the group perform more efficiently. If you did a few searches on non spammable and heavy attack builds before posting this, you would have seen there have been a few hovering around for a while.

A more appropriate title would be - Easy Mode vMA/Solo/Dungeon Sorc.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

This post is to let you know that we've felt it necessary to remove some posts from the thread. For further posts on the thread please be sure to remain civil with one another to avoid anyone being pinned for flaming, which is against the Forum Rules.

Thank you for understanding.

xynode

Build update for those of you that liked the build, this is now up to date with the homestead patch. Thanks for watcing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXg9nw33H3E

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

Molydeus

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

I use lightning blockade as a magsorc because at a minimum 50% of my dps comes from aoe, which is buffed by lightning. Are you saying fire blockade is better?

Masel

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

In our raidgroup, the additional lightning blockade from another DD has always contributed more to the group than it took. Most Bossfights include a decent amount of movement, and healers will never keep up the blockades 100% on their own (Twin fights on both bosses, Rakkhat while catching meteors, Valariel in Add phase, Mage in vAA HM on Minimages & Bosses etc.) with three lightning blockades going and two channeled heavy attacks per ten seconds in the rotation,that is an uptime loss of 0.67 seconds out of ten seconds (so a 0.67% Group dps loss) , which is definitely countered by the additional AoE in trash fights and the faster dying adds, especially in Hardmode trials. I know that we might have different opinions on this matter @Oreyn_Bearclaw, but it can definitely have advantages to run one of those builds:)

EDIT: I forgot to say that I usually aim at adds that are near to the boss with the build when adds are there and only apply single target dots on the boss itself. The boss will take more damage than the add and it doesn't take away off balance on the boss

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Masel92 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

In our raidgroup, the additional lightning blockade from another DD has always contributed more to the group than it took. Most Bossfights include a decent amount of movement, and healers will never keep up the blockades 100% on their own (Twin fights on both bosses, Rakkhat while catching meteors, Valariel in Add phase, Mage in vAA HM on Minimages & Bosses etc.) with three lightning blockades going and two channeled heavy attacks per ten seconds in the rotation,that is an uptime loss of 0.67 seconds out of ten seconds (so a 0.67% Group dps loss) , which is definitely countered by the additional AoE in trash fights and the faster dying adds, especially in Hardmode trials. I know that we might have different opinions on this matter @Oreyn_Bearclaw, but it can definitely have advantages to run one of those builds:)

EDIT: I forgot to say that I usually aim at adds that are near to the boss with the build when adds are there and only apply single target dots on the boss itself. The boss will take more damage than the add and it doesn't take away off balance on the boss

@Masel92

I dont disagree that it very well might make sense to have one sorc doing this, but I dont think you want multiple doing it. There is a lot of talk lately that sorcs are OP or that its easy mode, and I think the lighting staff builds are playing into that hype. True, for most four man stuff, I could teach monkey to pull decent DPS for most content with a heavy attack build, but that is far removed from what the truly elite sorcs do in a trial.

Running a proper sorc build that is actually pulling 50k single target is by no means easy. I think its certainly worth discussing the pitfalls of stacking 8 of these heavy attack builds in a raid. Also, adds have become an after thought in VMOL. What most groups actually care about is not fight DPS, but single target DPS on the boss. For example, I can get a higher parse with a lighting staff on the first boss in VMOL, but my single target DPS is actually much lower when compared to a fire staff.

Also, your Sorc VMA build is the best thing since sliced bread. Haha.

Masel

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

show previous quotes

Masel92 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

In our raidgroup, the additional lightning blockade from another DD has always contributed more to the group than it took. Most Bossfights include a decent amount of movement, and healers will never keep up the blockades 100% on their own (Twin fights on both bosses, Rakkhat while catching meteors, Valariel in Add phase, Mage in vAA HM on Minimages & Bosses etc.) with three lightning blockades going and two channeled heavy attacks per ten seconds in the rotation,that is an uptime loss of 0.67 seconds out of ten seconds (so a 0.67% Group dps loss) , which is definitely countered by the additional AoE in trash fights and the faster dying adds, especially in Hardmode trials. I know that we might have different opinions on this matter @Oreyn_Bearclaw, but it can definitely have advantages to run one of those builds:)

EDIT: I forgot to say that I usually aim at adds that are near to the boss with the build when adds are there and only apply single target dots on the boss itself. The boss will take more damage than the add and it doesn't take away off balance on the boss

@Masel92

I dont disagree that it very well might make sense to have one sorc doing this, but I dont think you want multiple doing it. There is a lot of talk lately that sorcs are OP or that its easy mode, and I think the lighting staff builds are playing into that hype. True, for most four man stuff, I could teach monkey to pull decent DPS for most content with a heavy attack build, but that is far removed from what the truly elite sorcs do in a trial.

Running a proper sorc build that is actually pulling 50k single target is by no means easy. I think its certainly worth discussing the pitfalls of stacking 8 of these heavy attack builds in a raid. Also, adds have become an after thought in VMOL. What most groups actually care about is not fight DPS, but single target DPS on the boss. For example, I can get a higher parse with a lighting staff on the first boss in VMOL, but my single target DPS is actually much lower when compared to a fire staff.

Also, your Sorc VMA build is the best thing since sliced bread. Haha.

Yeah I only meant one (two at max) of those builds in the raid, and I only use it on the DK because it just puts out more damage and can provide utility.

I just wanted to indicate that the taking off of the off-balance effect (a lot of off in there) is not as great as Nos' tried to tell me yesterday in another thread. He said that those builds are very bad for trials and that is definetely not the case, you just have to use it right. The vMA lightning staff is simply the best AoE tool that you can have (for free), and even if one of the groups dds sacrifices 3-4k dps on single target, so be it as long as it speeds up trash fights.

I wouldn't use it on a magsorc, but on a DK it has been really amazing for me and others.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Molydeus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

I use lightning blockade as a magsorc because at a minimum 50% of my dps comes from aoe, which is buffed by lightning. Are you saying fire blockade is better?

@Molydeus
Well, are you front barring your blockade? Most sorcs do not do that. For the meta build, blockade makes much more sense as a back bar skill from a rotation standpoint. Therefore, the staff you use on your back bar is not relevant to the analysis of AOE vs single target DPS when deciding between lightning and fire. The destro passives apply from the bar you are on, not the bar you cast the skills from. Also remember that even if more than half of your total damage is AOE, that doesnt necessarily mean that more than half of your Damage on the boss is from AOE skills, and that is what you want to optimize. A 55k parse with 35k DPS on the boss is NOT as good as a 50k parse with 40k DPS on the boss. Your weave, Frags, Force pulse, and Execute are all going to hit harder with fire.

For single target DPS in a group setting, fire blockade is better DPS. This is assuming you are getting the lightning blockade from your healers. On a self buffed target skeleton or solo in places like VMA, you will get more DPS from lighting, because its the only way you are getting the off balance to benefit from the 10% exploiter passive.

Again, these heavy attack builds have their place, but they are not optimal for pure single target DPS on boss fights, which is what any group cares about that is pushing score. Most sorcs back bar a fire staff, and swap between fire (bosses) and lighting (trash) throughout the trial. In four man staff, I dont both with a fire staff as stuff dies to fast anyway. Much easier to just melt everything with a lighting staff. On fights that matter, like trying to skip lunar on Rakkhat HM, the only metric that matters is DPS on the boss himself. For that, fire front bar is absolutely better.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Masel92 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

In our raidgroup, the additional lightning blockade from another DD has always contributed more to the group than it took. Most Bossfights include a decent amount of movement, and healers will never keep up the blockades 100% on their own (Twin fights on both bosses, Rakkhat while catching meteors, Valariel in Add phase, Mage in vAA HM on Minimages & Bosses etc.) with three lightning blockades going and two channeled heavy attacks per ten seconds in the rotation,that is an uptime loss of 0.67 seconds out of ten seconds (so a 0.67% Group dps loss) , which is definitely countered by the additional AoE in trash fights and the faster dying adds, especially in Hardmode trials. I know that we might have different opinions on this matter @Oreyn_Bearclaw, but it can definitely have advantages to run one of those builds:)

EDIT: I forgot to say that I usually aim at adds that are near to the boss with the build when adds are there and only apply single target dots on the boss itself. The boss will take more damage than the add and it doesn't take away off balance on the boss

@Masel92

I dont disagree that it very well might make sense to have one sorc doing this, but I dont think you want multiple doing it. There is a lot of talk lately that sorcs are OP or that its easy mode, and I think the lighting staff builds are playing into that hype. True, for most four man stuff, I could teach monkey to pull decent DPS for most content with a heavy attack build, but that is far removed from what the truly elite sorcs do in a trial.

Running a proper sorc build that is actually pulling 50k single target is by no means easy. I think its certainly worth discussing the pitfalls of stacking 8 of these heavy attack builds in a raid. Also, adds have become an after thought in VMOL. What most groups actually care about is not fight DPS, but single target DPS on the boss. For example, I can get a higher parse with a lighting staff on the first boss in VMOL, but my single target DPS is actually much lower when compared to a fire staff.

Also, your Sorc VMA build is the best thing since sliced bread. Haha.

Yeah I only meant one (two at max) of those builds in the raid, and I only use it on the DK because it just puts out more damage and can provide utility.

I just wanted to indicate that the taking off of the off-balance effect (a lot of off in there) is not as great as Nos' tried to tell me yesterday in another thread. He said that those builds are very bad for trials and that is definetely not the case, you just have to use it right. The vMA lightning staff is simply the best AoE tool that you can have (for free), and even if one of the groups dds sacrifices 3-4k dps on single target, so be it as long as it speeds up trash fights.

I wouldn't use it on a magsorc, but on a DK it has been really amazing for me and others.

We actually did a fair amount of target dummy testing with this. I wont call our findings conclusive, but both flame lash and heavys do absolutely consume it. That I dont think anyone is debating. The question becomes, how fast does it reapply. Our testing indicated that it actually does happen pretty fast, but it can certainly cause other members to miss at least one Global of exploiter.

As for lighting for AOE, I support that 100% in trash. For bosses, The best DKs and Sorcs are both going double fire. You shouldnt need to channel a lightning staff on any boss fight I am aware of. It can absolutely pad your parse, but your Single Target will suffer.

Edit: In raids, I use alpha gear to swap my front bar from fire (bosses) to Lightning (trash) on Sorc, and most DKs are doing the same thing, just with their back bar.

Tremors

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

I've never understood this argument, off balance is consumed and automatically reapplied based on concussion + WoE.

So, concussion up-time maximum, WoE up-time maximum, will keep off balance up regardless of consumption? I believe this also applies to power lash. You can see the Off Balance appear, disappear and again reappear ready for another power lash.

hedna123b14_ESO

Oh God...is this

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

I've never understood this argument, off balance is consumed and automatically reapplied based on concussion + WoE.

So, concussion up-time maximum, WoE up-time maximum, will keep off balance up regardless of consumption? I believe this also applies to power lash. You can see the Off Balance appear, disappear and again reappear ready for another power lash.

This is actually incorrect. Even if off-balance is taken off for .5 of a sec this .5 of a second when constantly taken off adds up to a significant portion of the fight, losing the raid a ton of dps. especcially during damage spikes. which is why all heavy attack builds arre not viable for trials content this patch

Oreyn_Bearclaw

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

I've never understood this argument, off balance is consumed and automatically reapplied based on concussion + WoE.

So, concussion up-time maximum, WoE up-time maximum, will keep off balance up regardless of consumption? I believe this also applies to power lash. You can see the Off Balance appear, disappear and again reappear ready for another power lash.

Nos basically said it, but he is correct. Even if the down time is very small, chances are some of your DPS are going to miss the exploiter buff for a full global. This definitely adds up. Admittedly, I am not sure how big the problem is, but it's definitely a problem.

More importantly, Lightning staff builds are great for AOE DPS, but the single target is frankly not great. Certainly it is an easy way to pull 35k single target, which is appealing to a lot of people that have never been able to do that previously. Take that same rotation and add adds into the mix and you start seeing 40k plus. People get more excited. If you stop and look at your single target damage in you Combat Metrics, you realize that its all fluff. If you want to do things like skipping Lunar Phase on Rakkhat, your splash damage is irrelevant.

Some very cheap and easy math. Lets say a full heavy takes 2 seconds (think its a touch longer than that), and each time you are losing off balance for half a second. That means that 25% of the time, you have lost the buff. So if the group is getting a 10% damage buff with full uptime, now you are only getting a 7.5% buff (loss of 2.5%). In a raid pulling 400k DPS, you are talking about 10k DPS. Obviously that math is wildly over simplified, but it does illustrate a point.

Masel

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh God...is this

show previous quotes

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

I've never understood this argument, off balance is consumed and automatically reapplied based on concussion + WoE.

So, concussion up-time maximum, WoE up-time maximum, will keep off balance up regardless of consumption? I believe this also applies to power lash. You can see the Off Balance appear, disappear and again reappear ready for another power lash.

This is actually incorrect. Even if off-balance is taken off for .5 of a sec this .5 of a second when constantly taken off adds up to a significant portion of the fight, losing the raid a ton of dps. especcially during damage spikes. which is why all heavy attack builds arre not viable for trials content this patch

I think we just have a different opinion of what is viable and how large the effect of one dd running this really is, which is why the discussion will never lead to anything productive

hedna123b14_ESO

Masel92 wrote: »

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hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh God...is this

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

I've never understood this argument, off balance is consumed and automatically reapplied based on concussion + WoE.

So, concussion up-time maximum, WoE up-time maximum, will keep off balance up regardless of consumption? I believe this also applies to power lash. You can see the Off Balance appear, disappear and again reappear ready for another power lash.

This is actually incorrect. Even if off-balance is taken off for .5 of a sec this .5 of a second when constantly taken off adds up to a significant portion of the fight, losing the raid a ton of dps. especcially during damage spikes. which is why all heavy attack builds arre not viable for trials content this patch

I think we just have a different opinion of what is viable and how large the effect of one dd running this really is, which is why the discussion will never lead to anything productive

Opinion implies that its a matter of preference. What I am discussing are concrete facts, that were extensively tested in game and mathematically. If you disagree with me ask any top level guild if a heavy attack build would be acceptable in their runs.

NinthPrince64

@xynode is there any particular reason the front bar staff has to be Maelstrom? Would any sharpened lightning work? (I only have one lightning Maelstrom staff.)

xynode

NinthPrince64 wrote: »

@xynode is there any particular reason the front bar staff has to be Maelstrom? Would any sharpened lightning work? (I only have one lightning Maelstrom staff.)

I did reply to this in the thread on youtube, but there aremany ways to play with the setup. Generally the maelstrom weapon goes on the back and so does wall of elements. But if you have 2x good trait vma staves(sharpened on front) you can go with that, failing that yes of course you can use a crafted on the front for the spell damage and weapon glyph. I did update the build recently also with a note about some alternative sets.

Thank you for your question and best of luck and fun with the build:)

Oreyn_Bearclaw

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

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Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh God...is this

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

I've never understood this argument, off balance is consumed and automatically reapplied based on concussion + WoE.

So, concussion up-time maximum, WoE up-time maximum, will keep off balance up regardless of consumption? I believe this also applies to power lash. You can see the Off Balance appear, disappear and again reappear ready for another power lash.

This is actually incorrect. Even if off-balance is taken off for .5 of a sec this .5 of a second when constantly taken off adds up to a significant portion of the fight, losing the raid a ton of dps. especcially during damage spikes. which is why all heavy attack builds arre not viable for trials content this patch

I think we just have a different opinion of what is viable and how large the effect of one dd running this really is, which is why the discussion will never lead to anything productive

Opinion implies that its a matter of preference. What I am discussing are concrete facts, that were extensively tested in game and mathematically. If you disagree with me ask any top level guild if a heavy attack build would be acceptable in their runs.

Here is my pushback for what it's worth. First, I agree 100% that the math and testing say its a bad idea at the extreme end of things, and I think you are correct that you wont see any of these builds in Hodor or similiar guilds. Furthermore, I am generally on the side of the min/maxer.

That being said, there is huge gap between what is viable and what is acceptable in the best of the best guilds. There are a lot of groups out there where the average DPS is pulling less than 30k. In groups like that, I dont think there is any harm in these types of builds, as the benefits likely outweigh the drawbacks.

hedna123b14_ESO

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

show previous quotes

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh God...is this

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I am a big fan of the heavy attack build for new players, AOE and VMA. There is one huge disclaimer. This should NEVER be used in trial boss fights in a proper group pushing for score. Yes your parse might be pretty good, but you are hurting your group.

The current met has healers running lighting blockade, so DPS can benefit from the exploiter passive. The problem is that heavy attacks consume off balance, so you are hurting your group every time you channel an attack. Lighting blockade is important in the current meta, but it should be run by the healers. If you are trying for solo DPS, then it is actually better the fire blockade because you will personally benefit form the off balance time. In a group, fire wall is way more damage.

Now if you are in a pickup group and nobody is spec'ed into thaumaturge, then have at it.

I've never understood this argument, off balance is consumed and automatically reapplied based on concussion + WoE.

So, concussion up-time maximum, WoE up-time maximum, will keep off balance up regardless of consumption? I believe this also applies to power lash. You can see the Off Balance appear, disappear and again reappear ready for another power lash.

This is actually incorrect. Even if off-balance is taken off for .5 of a sec this .5 of a second when constantly taken off adds up to a significant portion of the fight, losing the raid a ton of dps. especcially during damage spikes. which is why all heavy attack builds arre not viable for trials content this patch

I think we just have a different opinion of what is viable and how large the effect of one dd running this really is, which is why the discussion will never lead to anything productive

Opinion implies that its a matter of preference. What I am discussing are concrete facts, that were extensively tested in game and mathematically. If you disagree with me ask any top level guild if a heavy attack build would be acceptable in their runs.

Here is my pushback for what it's worth. First, I agree 100% that the math and testing say its a bad idea at the extreme end of things, and I think you are correct that you wont see any of these builds in Hodor or similiar guilds. Furthermore, I am generally on the side of the min/maxer.

That being said, there is huge gap between what is viable and what is acceptable in the best of the best guilds. There are a lot of groups out there where the average DPS is pulling less than 30k. In groups like that, I dont think there is any harm in these types of builds, as the benefits likely outweigh the drawbacks.

Correct, however his implication was that a build such as that can compete with the meta and by compete I mean parse within 10k single target and that just isnt true...

Powerburrito20

I believe on your Homestead video update you said if the aether and TBS gear was not accessible, then you recommend 5x netch touch and 5x julianos. What about if twice born is accessible? do you recommend pairing it with 5x netch.?