2.7.2 Stamplar changes, and the state of the class after them

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So with this set of patch notes, stamplars saw a few beneficial changes to help the in PvP. Apparently the cost of binding javelin and biting jabs has been (bugged since launch?), and as such was hurting stamplar sustain. Both of these were modified to reduce cost by 20% each. While this might help with sustain, only testing will be able to confirm this.

Biting jabs was made undodgeable. While this change is appreciated, unfortunately it is the nature of the skill that causes it to underperform. Hitting a moving target with jabs is VERY hard. You need to keep your reticle directly on them for the entire channel in order to do damage. In addition to this, the ability snares on the FINAL hit and does additional damage on the FINAL hit. That hit hardly lands when you've already spent one second attempting to track a moving target with your reticle! I'd propose the ability be made similar to beam, being targeted but able to be broken by turning away. We will see how the skill performs on the PTS though, as only that will tell whether it performs on par with other spammable stam DPS skills.

The change to backlash is something that will have to undergo extensive testing before anyone can speak on it. The cyrodil changes are interesting, to say the least. I don't know enough about the particular skill to speak on it's effectiveness post PTS, but I'm sure that will be addressed by people more versed than I.

So, unless the backlash change is huge and adds a TON of dps to stamplar rotations, Stamplars are still going to be in the same sorry state they were in prior to the patch, pertaining specifically to PVE.

I'd propose that some form of stamina class morph be added so that stamplars have another useful skill to add into their rotation. This could be something that buffs damage, provides a unique (more powerful than MINOR BREACH) debuff or utility, or brings a new way of sustain to stamplar play. Any feedback on this suggestion would be appreicated! I would love to hear how the other stamplars feel about these changes, and what the community thinks can be done to improve the subclass further so that it does not continue to be regarded as the worst class.

DragonBound

Liam12548 wrote: »

So with this set of patch notes, stamplars saw a few beneficial changes to help the in PvP. Apparently the cost of binding javelin and biting jabs has been (bugged since launch?), and as such was hurting stamplar sustain. Both of these were modified to reduce cost by 20% each. While this might help with sustain, only testing will be able to confirm this.

Biting jabs was made undodgeable. While this change is appreciated, unfortunately it is the nature of the skill that causes it to underperform. Hitting a moving target with jabs is VERY hard. You need to keep your reticle directly on them for the entire channel in order to do damage. In addition to this, the ability snares on the FINAL hit and does additional damage on the FINAL hit. That hit hardly lands when you've already spent one second attempting to track a moving target with your reticle! I'd propose the ability be made similar to beam, being targeted but able to be broken by turning away. We will see how the skill performs on the PTS though, as only that will tell whether it performs on par with other spammable stam DPS skills.

The change to backlash is something that will have to undergo extensive testing before anyone can speak on it. The cyrodil changes are interesting, to say the least. I don't know enough about the particular skill to speak on it's effectiveness post PTS, but I'm sure that will be addressed by people more versed than I.

So, unless the backlash change is huge and adds a TON of dps to stamplar rotations, Stamplars are still going to be in the same sorry state they were in prior to the patch, pertaining specifically to PVE.

I'd propose that some form of stamina class morph be added so that stamplars have another useful skill to add into their rotation. This could be something that buffs damage, provides a unique (more powerful than MINOR BREACH) debuff or utility, or brings a new way of sustain to stamplar play. Any feedback on this suggestion would be appreicated! I would love to hear how the other stamplars feel about these changes, and what the community thinks can be done to improve the subclass further so that it does not continue to be regarded as the worst class.

You did not list all the changes here also they updated this one in the notes, Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

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CosmicSoul wrote: »

You did not list all the changes here also they updated this one in the notes, Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

I didn't list it because it is completely irrelevant to pve and pvp. It does nothing by way of stamplar dps as far as I can tell, and does not provide any utility that outperforms dbos or fdb. If they had changed empowering instead that would be another story. I do not think anyone will use this morph over dawn breaker.

DragonBound

Liam12548 wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

You did not list all the changes here also they updated this one in the notes, Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

I didn't list it because it is completely irrelevant to pve and pvp. It does nothing by way of stamplar dps as far as I can tell, and does not provide any utility that outperforms dbos or fdb. If they had changed empowering instead that would be another story. I do not think anyone will use this morph over dawn breaker.

Considering its based off your physical dps it will be viable for stamina builds to use, no one has tested it yet so you cannot know that lol.

Khaos_Bane

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

So with this set of patch notes, stamplars saw a few beneficial changes to help the in PvP. Apparently the cost of binding javelin and biting jabs has been (bugged since launch?), and as such was hurting stamplar sustain. Both of these were modified to reduce cost by 20% each. While this might help with sustain, only testing will be able to confirm this.

Biting jabs was made undodgeable. While this change is appreciated, unfortunately it is the nature of the skill that causes it to underperform. Hitting a moving target with jabs is VERY hard. You need to keep your reticle directly on them for the entire channel in order to do damage. In addition to this, the ability snares on the FINAL hit and does additional damage on the FINAL hit. That hit hardly lands when you've already spent one second attempting to track a moving target with your reticle! I'd propose the ability be made similar to beam, being targeted but able to be broken by turning away. We will see how the skill performs on the PTS though, as only that will tell whether it performs on par with other spammable stam DPS skills.

The change to backlash is something that will have to undergo extensive testing before anyone can speak on it. The cyrodil changes are interesting, to say the least. I don't know enough about the particular skill to speak on it's effectiveness post PTS, but I'm sure that will be addressed by people more versed than I.

So, unless the backlash change is huge and adds a TON of dps to stamplar rotations, Stamplars are still going to be in the same sorry state they were in prior to the patch, pertaining specifically to PVE.

I'd propose that some form of stamina class morph be added so that stamplars have another useful skill to add into their rotation. This could be something that buffs damage, provides a unique (more powerful than MINOR BREACH) debuff or utility, or brings a new way of sustain to stamplar play. Any feedback on this suggestion would be appreicated! I would love to hear how the other stamplars feel about these changes, and what the community thinks can be done to improve the subclass further so that it does not continue to be regarded as the worst class.

You did not list all the changes here also they updated this one in the notes, Crescent Sweep (Radial Sweep morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

Because it offers nothing over dawn breaker, derp.

alext89

The weakest Class. Someone have to be the weakest Class. And it isnt by miles the worst. These changes Sound really good, and if u build your Way arround knock downs and snares, i Think stampler Can be really deadly now. Give it more damage, and it would be too much, in my opinion. However i agree on the surstain part, maybe let repentens, give more stamina. Would also raise the skill cap, and make it more unique.

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CosmicSoul wrote: »

Considering its based off your physical dps it will be viable for stamina builds to use, no one has tested it yet so you cannot know that lol.

I didn't make this thread to argue, just to converse critically.

You're right. Until it is tested, no one will know for sure whether or not it will be viable.

HOWEVER, as the skill stands currently in comparison to dawnbreaker, there is no justification in using it over dawnbreaker. I'm not sure of some of the finer points, like crescent procing burning light, but with the passive WD bonus from dawnbreaker as well as the CC and superior damage/DoT, I do not think it will be used.

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alext89 wrote: »

The weakest Class. Someone have to be the weakest Class. And it isnt by miles the worst. These changes Sound really good, and if u build your Way arround knock downs and snares, i Think stampler Can be really deadly now. Give it more damage, and it would be too much, in my opinion. However i agree on the surstain part, maybe let repentens, give more stamina. Would also raise the skill cap, and make it more unique.

Not really sure what points you are making here, as you did not provide context to back any of them.

Stamplars do currently parse lower than most other stam classes, and they do NOT have any unique utility or buff to make up for it.

Repentance does give stamina, but is very situational and difficult to use.

Somebody does have to be the weakest class. But the weakest class shouldn't be so far below others that it is unused and shunned from raid groups entirely.

Xsorus

Its not a choice between Dawnbreaker and Crescent (I'll probably use Crescent) its a choice between it a Shield Wall in my opinion.

Gotta Figure out if the Power Light Change will replace my Heroic strike in the build....

leepalmer95

TL;DR stop trying to be broken stam sorc and running aorund in heavy and 600 regen.

Use medium + regen like you was intended to do.

Jabs is a nice skill, cost reduction + undodgeable will help.

Crescent sweep hits harder than dawnbreaker for a cheaper cost.

Jav is faster as well as cheaper, not bad for a class cc. Dw stamplars are a thing.

DragonBound

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TL;DR stop trying to be broken stam sorc and running aorund in heavy and 600 regen.

Use medium + regen like you was intended to do.

Jabs is a nice skill, cost reduction + undodgeable will help.

Crescent sweep hits harder than dawnbreaker for a cheaper cost.

Jav is faster as well as cheaper, not bad for a class cc. Dw stamplars are a thing.

Yep it is what I was thinking that cs will hit harder for a cheaper cost anyways.

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CosmicSoul wrote: »

Yep it is what I was thinking that cs will hit harder for a cheaper cost anyways.

It still has no CC, no passive WD bonus like FDB or DBOS, and only hits as hard as DBOS in the frontal cone.

I have a feeling it will JUST BARELY out DPS dawnbreaker in PvE (if that), and that in PVP it will be completely unused because people would rather have the CC and WD.

SnubbS

Stamplar>StamDK. (pvp)

Subversus

SnubbS wrote: »

Stamplar>StamDK. (pvp)

Not even debatable, purge on stamplars is insanely op lol

DragonBound

Liam12548 wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Yep it is what I was thinking that cs will hit harder for a cheaper cost anyways.

It still has no CC, no passive WD bonus like FDB or DBOS, and only hits as hard as DBOS in the frontal cone.

I have a feeling it will JUST BARELY out DPS dawnbreaker in PvE (if that), and that in PVP it will be completely unused because people would rather have the CC and WD.

And why does an ultimate need a cc? If anything we need a cc in our regular abilities, and honestly we need to see how our throwing one does first even thought it is single target, it seems to me you do not want this ultimate to be viable for some reason.

leepalmer95

SnubbS wrote: »

Stamplar>StamDK. (pvp)

Stam dk better sustain + better heals + dots.

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CosmicSoul wrote: »

And why does an ultimate need a cc? If anything we need a cc in our regular abilities, and honestly we need to see how our throwing one does first even thought it is single target, it seems to me you do not want this ultimate to be viable for some reason.

I never said it neended a cc, and I don't believe it should have a cc. I don't know why you are under 5he impression that I don't want Cresent to be a good skill.. but since you've referred to binding javelin as "the throwing one" I'm going to assume you have no idea what you're talking about.

SnubbS

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Stamplar>StamDK. (pvp)

Stam dk better sustain + better heals + dots.

Templar gets what amounts to permanent Major mending & Minor vitality/Protection. Igneous is a really good skill, but the MM buff is not up 100% of the time. 38% for Stamplar vs 42% for StamDK -- and Stamplars get a bonus to their crit heals, and 1% extra weapon damage. You'll hardly notice a difference healing wise.

Venom Claw & Noxious are nice, but not having to run Dizzy Swing is nicer. Cost reduction & Extra CP are going to benefit the sustain. And as we know, Templars benefit the most in terms of damage from added CP due to double dipping. Stamplars have a (nearly) built-in Shadow mundus, and built in major savagery. You can actually run Serpent without feeling like you're sacrificing anything. If you play in small coordinated groups, with another player, or are just next to random people -- Stamplar out classes. Cleanse, Repentance, AoE Snare -- you're doing more damage than a StamDK, providing more group utility, having basically identical healing/tankiness, you get a spammable that now works -- and the only thing you have to sacrifice is a bit of sustain.