Is black rose the root of heavy armour power?

STEVIL

Edziu wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

can you explain me why I dont see anyone other than sneakynb gangers in medium and shieldstacking sorcs with cloaking magnb's in light? only those that I wrote are able to wear non heavy armor and also just nb's also wearing heaavy armor if they are independet to stealth.

Because that is the last armor type left?

I think you just asked why you don't see anyone other than the people wearing Medium armor and those that wear light armor, not in heavy armor. That question makes no sense.

I asked why I dont see medium, light armor on anyone who isnt nb or mag sorc

light armor is only for shieldstackers or cloaking nb, if not cloak then also mag nb wont use this crappy armor, medium armor is viable only for gangers to just mobility in stealth, thats all


now to compare, I talked some with my friend, he is stam dk, 30k health, heavy armored cap resists, 35k max stamina and 2.5k wepaon dmg buffed, 11.5k tooltip on dizzying swing

me, ganger, 3.5k weapon dmg buffed, 30k max stam, medium armor, 17k health and 13k dizzying swing tooltip and 11k-12k resists

now tell me what is balance here? while he have over 2x more resist than me, 2x more health than me + healing buff from armor, he have less wepaon dmg and not much more max stamina he have just less tooltip on his skill which will hit me similiar hard or harder me because of my lack of resists than I hitting him with cap ressists with same skill.

I will need to hit him 4-6+- times to kill him if he wont hea as glass cannon max burst build while he on tankly build will need only 2-3 hits to rekt me

this is difference in damage between heavy armored players in pvp and medium/light armor in pvp

to additional in heavy armor you have much much bigger survivability+ sustain ofc because you will dont have only 1 stat on high regen, you will have nice stat return into both which will incude to this you will have more resources to buffs/debuffs.
It is especially on mag build good because of additional stamina return for CC, dodge etc, on stmaina build you will have more magica to better sustain using class utility skills

Am i missing something or did you just ignore and leave out most of the medium armor passives?

You did not include crit chance.
You did not include stamina costs
You did not include roll-dodge costs.

How many times does the other guy have to swing before he gets 2-3 hits if you are dodging more than he is and doing it well?

How many extra crits do you land?

Do you play to your strengths or do you try and do what heavy armor is good at while wearing medium armor?

i wont by any means try and argue that hvy and medium are perfectly balanced etc etc... but i will say that you should choose the armor to match the playstyle and the playstyle to match the armor and any time you forget this is gonna hurt.

if your play is gonna center on the things hvy armor helps, wear hvy armor.

miteba

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

hassubhai wrote: »

So what HA would you run if black rose got removed from the game? Be honest lol.

Rattlecage, for magicka users, has lot of fans too
Reactive armor

Black Rose obviously it is a great set ... but even before it was released i remember perfectly the difference between going for Cyro with a Light armor or any Heavy armor set...
I played with may magicka templar with light armor and would love to go to Cyro with some but it wasnt just feasible on a competitive basis ... so i struggled for some time until i eventually had to adapt to Heavy armor :'( If you played in a group, light armor was ok but at solo i had few chances versus a good experienced and competitive player

Anyway i admit that nowdays the gap between light armor and heavy armor, in PVP, is even greater... and that is not because of black rose... but because a lot of unbalance decisions where procs or armor are the common culprits, but it is much more complex thant that

Enslaved

Source of Heavy Armor power is not any set but passive called Constitution. Also, as with all other things, when you add CP to the Heavy Armor, it becomes op af.

hassubhai

raasdal wrote: »

I think BR will still be the most used HA set for PvP. Since it is a PvP set, that is fine by me.

But no. The HA meta and HA being OP, never had anything to do with BR. But people will always point to the most visible object, when they do not really know what is going on. Therefore people blame BR, instead of HA in general. BR is not overpowered. HA is.

So what HA would you run if black rose got removed from the game? Be honest lol.

miteba wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

So what HA would you run if black rose got removed from the game? Be honest lol.

Rattlecage, for magicka users, has lot of fans too
Reactive armor

Black Rose obviously it is a great set ... but even before it was released i remember perfectly the difference between going for Cyro with a Light armor or any Heavy armor set...
I played with may magicka templar with light armor and would love to go to Cyro with some but it wasnt just feasible on a competitive basis ... so i struggled for some time until i eventually had to adapt to Heavy armor :'( If you played in a group, light armor was ok but at solo i had few chances versus a good experienced and competitive player

Anyway i admit that nowdays the gap between light armor and heavy armor, in PVP, is even greater... and that is not because of black rose... but because a lot of unbalance decisions where procs or armor are the common culprits, but it is much more complex thant that

Im referring to stamina users what would blackrose be replace for on a stamina pvp build, something you would honestly run if black rose no longer existed

Edziu

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

can you explain me why I dont see anyone other than sneakynb gangers in medium and shieldstacking sorcs with cloaking magnb's in light? only those that I wrote are able to wear non heavy armor and also just nb's also wearing heaavy armor if they are independet to stealth.

Because that is the last armor type left?

I think you just asked why you don't see anyone other than the people wearing Medium armor and those that wear light armor, not in heavy armor. That question makes no sense.

I asked why I dont see medium, light armor on anyone who isnt nb or mag sorc

light armor is only for shieldstackers or cloaking nb, if not cloak then also mag nb wont use this crappy armor, medium armor is viable only for gangers to just mobility in stealth, thats all


now to compare, I talked some with my friend, he is stam dk, 30k health, heavy armored cap resists, 35k max stamina and 2.5k wepaon dmg buffed, 11.5k tooltip on dizzying swing

me, ganger, 3.5k weapon dmg buffed, 30k max stam, medium armor, 17k health and 13k dizzying swing tooltip and 11k-12k resists

now tell me what is balance here? while he have over 2x more resist than me, 2x more health than me + healing buff from armor, he have less wepaon dmg and not much more max stamina he have just less tooltip on his skill which will hit me similiar hard or harder me because of my lack of resists than I hitting him with cap ressists with same skill.

I will need to hit him 4-6+- times to kill him if he wont hea as glass cannon max burst build while he on tankly build will need only 2-3 hits to rekt me

this is difference in damage between heavy armored players in pvp and medium/light armor in pvp

to additional in heavy armor you have much much bigger survivability+ sustain ofc because you will dont have only 1 stat on high regen, you will have nice stat return into both which will incude to this you will have more resources to buffs/debuffs.
It is especially on mag build good because of additional stamina return for CC, dodge etc, on stmaina build you will have more magica to better sustain using class utility skills

@Edziu what is your crit%. And your mundus. You can use shadow, further modifying crit dmg. Most heavy run thief to mod heals because heals crit too, or warrior to make base heals base higher. Also cp allocation into healing in the blue cp tree because heavy has to absorb dmg instead of dodgerolling. BALANCE. you can go all day on how each are so close but its apples and oranges comparisons.

50-55% crit chance and shadow mundus

STEVIL wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

can you explain me why I dont see anyone other than sneakynb gangers in medium and shieldstacking sorcs with cloaking magnb's in light? only those that I wrote are able to wear non heavy armor and also just nb's also wearing heaavy armor if they are independet to stealth.

Because that is the last armor type left?

I think you just asked why you don't see anyone other than the people wearing Medium armor and those that wear light armor, not in heavy armor. That question makes no sense.

I asked why I dont see medium, light armor on anyone who isnt nb or mag sorc

light armor is only for shieldstackers or cloaking nb, if not cloak then also mag nb wont use this crappy armor, medium armor is viable only for gangers to just mobility in stealth, thats all


now to compare, I talked some with my friend, he is stam dk, 30k health, heavy armored cap resists, 35k max stamina and 2.5k wepaon dmg buffed, 11.5k tooltip on dizzying swing

me, ganger, 3.5k weapon dmg buffed, 30k max stam, medium armor, 17k health and 13k dizzying swing tooltip and 11k-12k resists

now tell me what is balance here? while he have over 2x more resist than me, 2x more health than me + healing buff from armor, he have less wepaon dmg and not much more max stamina he have just less tooltip on his skill which will hit me similiar hard or harder me because of my lack of resists than I hitting him with cap ressists with same skill.

I will need to hit him 4-6+- times to kill him if he wont hea as glass cannon max burst build while he on tankly build will need only 2-3 hits to rekt me

this is difference in damage between heavy armored players in pvp and medium/light armor in pvp

to additional in heavy armor you have much much bigger survivability+ sustain ofc because you will dont have only 1 stat on high regen, you will have nice stat return into both which will incude to this you will have more resources to buffs/debuffs.
It is especially on mag build good because of additional stamina return for CC, dodge etc, on stmaina build you will have more magica to better sustain using class utility skills

Am i missing something or did you just ignore and leave out most of the medium armor passives?

You did not include crit chance.
You did not include stamina costs
You did not include roll-dodge costs.

How many times does the other guy have to swing before he gets 2-3 hits if you are dodging more than he is and doing it well?

How many extra crits do you land?

Do you play to your strengths or do you try and do what heavy armor is good at while wearing medium armor?

i wont by any means try and argue that hvy and medium are perfectly balanced etc etc... but i will say that you should choose the armor to match the playstyle and the playstyle to match the armor and any time you forget this is gonna hurt.

if your play is gonna center on the things hvy armor helps, wear hvy armor.

so, maybe I have more crits, I can hit him more times for 6k-7k with crit, but he while have 2x more health than me he have also vigor ticks for 1.5k without crit to 3k+ with crits or and better if he will use lingering potion
I in mediuma dn without major mending have almos 2k crit ticks with almost 1k noncrit ticks
while he is hitting me for 3-4k without crits he can easily force me to go on defensive and I need some time to heal it while he will heal ma damae instantly if he farce me to stop dps him

I cant rolldodge forever, max 3 dodge in row and next will just burn rest my stamina while he can block almost every my attack and just use heavy attacks on me to restore huge amount if stamina while Im forced to stop attack him

by constitution passive + as I wrote huge resource return from heavy attacks stamina cost is much less important for him on mostly skills

Emencie

Edziu wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

can you explain me why I dont see anyone other than sneakynb gangers in medium and shieldstacking sorcs with cloaking magnb's in light? only those that I wrote are able to wear non heavy armor and also just nb's also wearing heaavy armor if they are independet to stealth.

Because that is the last armor type left?

I think you just asked why you don't see anyone other than the people wearing Medium armor and those that wear light armor, not in heavy armor. That question makes no sense.

I asked why I dont see medium, light armor on anyone who isnt nb or mag sorc

light armor is only for shieldstackers or cloaking nb, if not cloak then also mag nb wont use this crappy armor, medium armor is viable only for gangers to just mobility in stealth, thats all


now to compare, I talked some with my friend, he is stam dk, 30k health, heavy armored cap resists, 35k max stamina and 2.5k wepaon dmg buffed, 11.5k tooltip on dizzying swing

me, ganger, 3.5k weapon dmg buffed, 30k max stam, medium armor, 17k health and 13k dizzying swing tooltip and 11k-12k resists

now tell me what is balance here? while he have over 2x more resist than me, 2x more health than me + healing buff from armor, he have less wepaon dmg and not much more max stamina he have just less tooltip on his skill which will hit me similiar hard or harder me because of my lack of resists than I hitting him with cap ressists with same skill.

I will need to hit him 4-6+- times to kill him if he wont hea as glass cannon max burst build while he on tankly build will need only 2-3 hits to rekt me

this is difference in damage between heavy armored players in pvp and medium/light armor in pvp

to additional in heavy armor you have much much bigger survivability+ sustain ofc because you will dont have only 1 stat on high regen, you will have nice stat return into both which will incude to this you will have more resources to buffs/debuffs.
It is especially on mag build good because of additional stamina return for CC, dodge etc, on stmaina build you will have more magica to better sustain using class utility skills

@Edziu what is your crit%. And your mundus. You can use shadow, further modifying crit dmg. Most heavy run thief to mod heals because heals crit too, or warrior to make base heals base higher. Also cp allocation into healing in the blue cp tree because heavy has to absorb dmg instead of dodgerolling. BALANCE. you can go all day on how each are so close but its apples and oranges comparisons.

50-55% crit chance and shadow mundus

STEVIL wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

can you explain me why I dont see anyone other than sneakynb gangers in medium and shieldstacking sorcs with cloaking magnb's in light? only those that I wrote are able to wear non heavy armor and also just nb's also wearing heaavy armor if they are independet to stealth.

Because that is the last armor type left?

I think you just asked why you don't see anyone other than the people wearing Medium armor and those that wear light armor, not in heavy armor. That question makes no sense.

I asked why I dont see medium, light armor on anyone who isnt nb or mag sorc

light armor is only for shieldstackers or cloaking nb, if not cloak then also mag nb wont use this crappy armor, medium armor is viable only for gangers to just mobility in stealth, thats all


now to compare, I talked some with my friend, he is stam dk, 30k health, heavy armored cap resists, 35k max stamina and 2.5k wepaon dmg buffed, 11.5k tooltip on dizzying swing

me, ganger, 3.5k weapon dmg buffed, 30k max stam, medium armor, 17k health and 13k dizzying swing tooltip and 11k-12k resists

now tell me what is balance here? while he have over 2x more resist than me, 2x more health than me + healing buff from armor, he have less wepaon dmg and not much more max stamina he have just less tooltip on his skill which will hit me similiar hard or harder me because of my lack of resists than I hitting him with cap ressists with same skill.

I will need to hit him 4-6+- times to kill him if he wont hea as glass cannon max burst build while he on tankly build will need only 2-3 hits to rekt me

this is difference in damage between heavy armored players in pvp and medium/light armor in pvp

to additional in heavy armor you have much much bigger survivability+ sustain ofc because you will dont have only 1 stat on high regen, you will have nice stat return into both which will incude to this you will have more resources to buffs/debuffs.
It is especially on mag build good because of additional stamina return for CC, dodge etc, on stmaina build you will have more magica to better sustain using class utility skills

Am i missing something or did you just ignore and leave out most of the medium armor passives?

You did not include crit chance.
You did not include stamina costs
You did not include roll-dodge costs.

How many times does the other guy have to swing before he gets 2-3 hits if you are dodging more than he is and doing it well?

How many extra crits do you land?

Do you play to your strengths or do you try and do what heavy armor is good at while wearing medium armor?

i wont by any means try and argue that hvy and medium are perfectly balanced etc etc... but i will say that you should choose the armor to match the playstyle and the playstyle to match the armor and any time you forget this is gonna hurt.

if your play is gonna center on the things hvy armor helps, wear hvy armor.

so, maybe I have more crits, I can hit him more times for 6k-7k with crit, but he while have 2x more health than me he have also vigor ticks for 1.5k without crit to 3k+ with crits or and better if he will use lingering potion
I in mediuma dn without major mending have almos 2k crit ticks with almost 1k noncrit ticks
while he is hitting me for 3-4k without crits he can easily force me to go on defensive and I need some time to heal it while he will heal ma damae instantly if he farce me to stop dps him

I cant rolldodge forever, max 3 dodge in row and next will just burn rest my stamina while he can block almost every my attack and just use heavy attacks on me to restore huge amount if stamina while Im forced to stop attack him

by constitution passive + as I wrote huge resource return from heavy attacks stamina cost is much less important for him on mostly skills

You are forgetting your bonuses to sneak...

It sounds like you want medium armor and heavy armor to do the same exact thing, they don't. If you are going to stand toe to toe with someone in HA, refuse to use one of your traits, and not use your rolls to reset combat in your favor then you are using your medium armor wrong. And yea you are going to lose, but if you prepare your attacks correctly and dissengage when you can, you can tear 90% of HA users a new one.

Now I realise there are those immortal builds out there, but no one can solo kill them even other HA users, they are bettered ignored in this debate (and on the battlefield). Especially since their problem mostly comes from infinite blocking.

SnubbS

TequilaFire wrote: »

Don't even get me started on the dodge roll meta either.
Gonna be interesting to see the changes to shuffle.
I would never dream of using anything other than medium on my NB and stam sorc as that is what makes them tick.
On the other hand I built my Magplar as a paladin and have always run heavy since beta and had to sacrifice some damage for survivability in zergs and not being one shot as I refuse to run proc sets other than Skoria.

Skoria is OP as hell right now, it's just that it's been in the game so long people don't really care.

hassubhai wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I think BR will still be the most used HA set for PvP. Since it is a PvP set, that is fine by me.

But no. The HA meta and HA being OP, never had anything to do with BR. But people will always point to the most visible object, when they do not really know what is going on. Therefore people blame BR, instead of HA in general. BR is not overpowered. HA is.

So what HA would you run if black rose got removed from the game? Be honest lol.

7th Legion, Fury, or Truth.

MalakithAlamahdi

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

hassubhai wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I think BR will still be the most used HA set for PvP. Since it is a PvP set, that is fine by me.

But no. The HA meta and HA being OP, never had anything to do with BR. But people will always point to the most visible object, when they do not really know what is going on. Therefore people blame BR, instead of HA in general. BR is not overpowered. HA is.

So what HA would you run if black rose got removed from the game? Be honest lol.

Heavy alchemist, it's better already. Out of 7 heavy armor characters I have only one wears BR and you barely notice the difference.

Heavy armor is balanced, you forgot an option. Bais poll is bias.

AnviOfVai

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

As far as I know Blackrose has always been a great set for PVP but I have NEVER found it OP.

Its a fabulous tanking set, that's what its for, to be able to withstand more damage than others. YOU are a TANK your job is to take damage for the team. You distract the opponents so they attack you so that your team can take the opposition down with their attacks. I have never been able to deal much damage at all with the blackrose set on. So I guess my set has always been very balanced

technohic

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

I would say Black Rose and the resource regen in heavy is fine. I am completely OK with heavy being tanky and having resources. My problem would be more with sets giving damage and heals that do not account for lack of weapon/spell power so you can focus on tanking and let the sets do all the work.

Has nothing to do with heavy armor really. Its these damned set procs

RazorCaltrops

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

Black rose is a nice inventory filler in my bank now. My mag dk is happy with rattlecage, my stam dk loves fury, and my stam sorc liked bursting people with alchemist when he takes breaks from vma farm-botting.

Own

PTR changes have fixed black rose completely

The stat change lowers the damage ceiling and makes it usable for magicka. Balanced set. Heavy armor is a little insane rn.

gard

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Heavy armor does exactly what it's supposed to. People choosing it for survivability in pvp does not mean it's op.

The problem with heavy is that it isn't properly balanced with other armor weights. Heavy armor users do sacrifice a little bit of damage, as well as some sustain in their preferred resource pool, but that's nothing compared to everything they gain: they can sustain both resource pools, they are vastly more durable, they have more health, and they have insane healing power. If you aren't a ganker, then light or medium armor are just barely worth considering.

How does heavy (any set)

hassubhai wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I think BR will still be the most used HA set for PvP. Since it is a PvP set, that is fine by me.

But no. The HA meta and HA being OP, never had anything to do with BR. But people will always point to the most visible object, when they do not really know what is going on. Therefore people blame BR, instead of HA in general. BR is not overpowered. HA is.

So what HA would you run if black rose got removed from the game? Be honest lol.

Not everyone runs Black Rose. I don't.

People use the term OP way too loosely. Especially some youtubers.

Pretty much, when I hear "OP" now, I dismiss it as a whine about the latest thing that killed the person.

Everyone in this game has access to exactly the same races, skills, and equipment as everyone else. How much more balanced can you get?

Smart people figure out which combinations work best together. Clue: That's part of the game!
Smart people who also have the skill to put their build into effective use are what's OP. And that can't and shouldn't be programmed out of the game.

Brrrofski

Magica Templars currently aren't using black rose and are the class which seem to synergise best with heavy.

IcyDeadPeople

Black rose is still and issue and needs a nerf

It's currently a little too easy to have extremely high physical / spell resistance and still hit very hard, at least on heavy armor stamina build (haven't tried heavy armor magicka build yet).

Coming up with a build concept is more interesting when there are significant tradeoffs and you must make difficult choices. At launch, heavy armor provided less protection than light armor, a lot less damage and a lot less sustain, so it was not surprising very few people used it in PVP.

Eventually medium armor got buffed and later heavy armor. I started out wearing heavy armor on my first PTS character during the beta, so I'm glad it is more useful and protects a lot more than it used to.

However, there should be at least a bit more of a tradeoff when it comes to dps. Or perhaps medium and light should be doing even more damage (or more penetration, something), so it becomes a more interesting choice whether to go with heavy or not.

Overall, though, the balance has improved tremendously since launch! It is finally possible to make a rather viable character with any of the 4 classes and stamina or magicka, medium, light or heavy armor. It took a lot of patches to get to this level.
.

technohic

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Or perhaps medium and light should be doing even more damage (or more penetration, something), so it becomes a more interesting choice whether to go with heavy or not.
.

I am kind of surprised that as far as PvP goes, light gives more crit rating which is not as useful as raw damage yet gives no spell damage while heavy does.

Lord_Eomer

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

I do not understand why ppl have issue with heavy armor like black rose.

I used it a lot and find still running out of resources its not OP!

If u have to nerf something then nerf Incapstating strike, ambus, proc sets, randiant destruction and Destro Ultimates!

Sneaky-Snurr

Aldenn wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tell that to my heavy armor 600 regen stam sorc.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tell that to my 600 regen stam dk.

@leepalmer95
Lmao. Then that means Sorc needs rebalancing and that has nothing to do with heavy armour passives. Your Sorc has class abilities and passives that can generate huge amounts of regens and that explains a lot why you only need 600 base regen in the first place.
As for your DK, you have GDB, Draw Essence, Battle Roar and Helping Hands for regen issues. Your one sentence statement is of no substance, mate.

If you take constitution + Black Rose for regen purposes (excluding your class passives and/or abilities), then it'll only increase your total regen to about 1400-1600. Take note that constitution works in every 4 second intervals and you MUST take damage in order for the passive to work. Total regen of up to 1600 for every 4 seconds isn't OP.
Makes sense?

@Edziu
As for your questions, I believe a lot of other posters who have responded to you here have mentioned some of what I had in mind.

Again,we're talking about PvP not PvE. Stam dk with GDB,Draw Essence? just lol. Go through PvP sometimes and you will feel the difference running squishy medium against an HA user. With HA i run 600 stam reg on my stam dk, that is even reliable on a non cp camp; HA is just crazy, you have burst,you are tanky also the sustain is just crazy due to heavy attacks stam restore, + if you are a redguard it's even more easy to sustain yourself. No, it's not a class issues, every stam class with heavy is just OP; BR is not OP there are set waaaaaaaaaay more reliable that that, people just don't understand it, it's a passives issue. Try out fury or alchemist in heavy, screw BR; passives need to be fixed definetely.

@Aldenn
First off, when did I say I was talking in PvE context? I was focusing on PvP if you actually take time to read my posts.

Secondly, you left out battle roar and helping hands passive for your stamDK. Never ever leave that out of context when you're boasting 'oh I only run 600 regen with heavy armour as a stamDK'. That basically means that your passives and bonuses from class abilities helped accumulate the majority of your regen. Also, it makes your argument look watered down and insignificant as you just proved to me and everyone else here that you get a bunch of regen from class passives/abilities alone.

Bottom line, heavy armour passives aren't the issue. It's the class passives and abilities that need to get looked at.

Hearts_Wake

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

Adapt and overcome.

Savos_Saren

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

So, I'd like to address this idea with a common theme from Batman:

If you have a powerful vigilante dressed like a bat (min/maxed glass cannons wearing proc sets) running around Gotham City (Cyrodiil)- it's going to invite opposition like a clowned freak (heavy armor wearers trying to maximize damage).


They both feed off each other. If you get one extreme... expect the other in opposition.

SlowMetabolism

Wrath passive, that is all.

Durham

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

Black Rose over rated imo..... stamina return should be obtained through heavy attacks... I do not use it and I'm a heavy user..

Durham

Black rose is fine and was never the reason for heavy armour being OP

Aldenn wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tell that to my heavy armor 600 regen stam sorc.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tell that to my 600 regen stam dk.

@leepalmer95
Lmao. Then that means Sorc needs rebalancing and that has nothing to do with heavy armour passives. Your Sorc has class abilities and passives that can generate huge amounts of regens and that explains a lot why you only need 600 base regen in the first place.
As for your DK, you have GDB, Draw Essence, Battle Roar and Helping Hands for regen issues. Your one sentence statement is of no substance, mate.

If you take constitution + Black Rose for regen purposes (excluding your class passives and/or abilities), then it'll only increase your total regen to about 1400-1600. Take note that constitution works in every 4 second intervals and you MUST take damage in order for the passive to work. Total regen of up to 1600 for every 4 seconds isn't OP.
Makes sense?

@Edziu
As for your questions, I believe a lot of other posters who have responded to you here have mentioned some of what I had in mind.

Again,we're talking about PvP not PvE. Stam dk with GDB,Draw Essence? just lol. Go through PvP sometimes and you will feel the difference running squishy medium against an HA user. With HA i run 600 stam reg on my stam dk, that is even reliable on a non cp camp; HA is just crazy, you have burst,you are tanky also the sustain is just crazy due to heavy attacks stam restore, + if you are a redguard it's even more easy to sustain yourself. No, it's not a class issues, every stam class with heavy is just OP; BR is not OP there are set waaaaaaaaaay more reliable that that, people just don't understand it, it's a passives issue. Try out fury or alchemist in heavy, screw BR; passives need to be fixed definetely.

Keep in mind HA heavy attacks just got reduced 50%.... also keep in mind the burst will and is still lower then the other two types....

Waffennacht

I

Durham wrote: »

Aldenn wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tell that to my heavy armor 600 regen stam sorc.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tell that to my 600 regen stam dk.

@leepalmer95
Lmao. Then that means Sorc needs rebalancing and that has nothing to do with heavy armour passives. Your Sorc has class abilities and passives that can generate huge amounts of regens and that explains a lot why you only need 600 base regen in the first place.
As for your DK, you have GDB, Draw Essence, Battle Roar and Helping Hands for regen issues. Your one sentence statement is of no substance, mate.

If you take constitution + Black Rose for regen purposes (excluding your class passives and/or abilities), then it'll only increase your total regen to about 1400-1600. Take note that constitution works in every 4 second intervals and you MUST take damage in order for the passive to work. Total regen of up to 1600 for every 4 seconds isn't OP.
Makes sense?

@Edziu
As for your questions, I believe a lot of other posters who have responded to you here have mentioned some of what I had in mind.

Again,we're talking about PvP not PvE. Stam dk with GDB,Draw Essence? just lol. Go through PvP sometimes and you will feel the difference running squishy medium against an HA user. With HA i run 600 stam reg on my stam dk, that is even reliable on a non cp camp; HA is just crazy, you have burst,you are tanky also the sustain is just crazy due to heavy attacks stam restore, + if you are a redguard it's even more easy to sustain yourself. No, it's not a class issues, every stam class with heavy is just OP; BR is not OP there are set waaaaaaaaaay more reliable that that, people just don't understand it, it's a passives issue. Try out fury or alchemist in heavy, screw BR; passives need to be fixed definetely.

Keep in mind HA heavy attacks just got reduced 50%.... also keep in mind the burst will and is still lower then the other two types....

Got reduced to 25% from 50%. So It's reduced by 25%. Still gives great return when combined with resto heavy.

I'll try BR once it gets updated to help magicka builds.

STEVIL

SnubbS wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Don't even get me started on the dodge roll meta either.
Gonna be interesting to see the changes to shuffle.
I would never dream of using anything other than medium on my NB and stam sorc as that is what makes them tick.
On the other hand I built my Magplar as a paladin and have always run heavy since beta and had to sacrifice some damage for survivability in zergs and not being one shot as I refuse to run proc sets other than Skoria.

Skoria is OP as hell right now, it's just that it's been in the game so long people don't really care.

hassubhai wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I think BR will still be the most used HA set for PvP. Since it is a PvP set, that is fine by me.

But no. The HA meta and HA being OP, never had anything to do with BR. But people will always point to the most visible object, when they do not really know what is going on. Therefore people blame BR, instead of HA in general. BR is not overpowered. HA is.

So what HA would you run if black rose got removed from the game? Be honest lol.

7th Legion, Fury, or Truth.

Big 7th legion fan myself,

STEVIL

Durham wrote: »

Black Rose over rated imo..... stamina return should be obtained through heavy attacks... I do not use it and I'm a heavy user..

yeah others have pointed out black rose plus offensive stuff is not that far off at all compared to more offensive sets with sustain or resource stuff. (stuff maybe as simple as jewel enchants.)

OOJIMMY

Edziu wrote: »

@Sneaky-Snurr in pve ofc heavy armor isnt for dps but its pve, we talking here about pvp, not pve

can you explain me why I dont see anyone other than sneakynb gangers in medium and shieldstacking sorcs with cloaking magnb's in light? only those that I wrote are able to wear non heavy armor and also just nb's also wearing heaavy armor if they are independet to stealth.

you say heavy armor is balanced...so what about medium and light armors? ofc these armors giving you some more regens but only to 1 stat while heavy armor giving you both mag ans stam in fight.

if four you heavy armor is balance please explain me then why 80%+ of cyrodil population is running in heavy armor? not only as tank but to deal damage also

list me a few reasons why I should wear light or medium armor in open fight while I cant shieldstack and if I not rely on stealth

I main a stamplar and I use 5 medium :P