Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »I'd like to choose option 3 until I read 'was never the reason for heavy armour being OP'.
So basically you're saying heavy armour is, in any regards, OP?
My good sir, heavy armour is never OP in the first place. To me, it's very balanced as it is and ZOS, to my surprise, actually did a really good job balancing heavy armour. The resistance offered is not substantial by any means. Constitution passive only works every 4 seconds and in fights, it will never be good enough as a substitute to resource regens. Med and light armour passives offer way more sustainable regen and those resources are what's actually keeping any player alive.
Why do you think magclasses always wear robes and stamclasses wear jacks? Simple, to have high regen in their respective resources for healing/defensive shields and dodge roll and/or vigour.
Heavy armour does not provide any substantial sustain. Black Rose only amplifies it by 40% and that is by no means a lot as according to some people. If you actually look at the regen bonus from constitution in conjunction with said set, they only increase the 4-sec regen by little amounts. It'll only become borderline moderate and a lot when you wear 7 pieces of heavy armour but who actually wears full-7 pieces in topline PvP anyways? To add to that, your base regen is already very low if you wear 7 pieces of heavy armour.
For PvE, heavy armour is not imposing on anyone.
That said, I don't see how heavy armour and Black Rose are the 'new meta' as purported by complainers and the likes of the same league.
leepalmer95 wrote: »Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »I'd like to choose option 3 until I read 'was never the reason for heavy armour being OP'.
So basically you're saying heavy armour is, in any regards, OP?
My good sir, heavy armour is never OP in the first place. To me, it's very balanced as it is and ZOS, to my surprise, actually did a really good job balancing heavy armour. The resistance offered is not substantial by any means. Constitution passive only works every 4 seconds and in fights, it will never be good enough as a substitute to resource regens. Med and light armour passives offer way more sustainable regen and those resources are what's actually keeping any player alive.
Why do you think magclasses always wear robes and stamclasses wear jacks? Simple, to have high regen in their respective resources for healing/defensive shields and dodge roll and/or vigour.
Heavy armour does not provide any substantial sustain. Black Rose only amplifies it by 40% and that is by no means a lot as according to some people. If you actually look at the regen bonus from constitution in conjunction with said set, they only increase the 4-sec regen by little amounts. It'll only become borderline moderate and a lot when you wear 7 pieces of heavy armour but who actually wears full-7 pieces in topline PvP anyways? To add to that, your base regen is already very low if you wear 7 pieces of heavy armour.
For PvE, heavy armour is not imposing on anyone.
That said, I don't see how heavy armour and Black Rose are the 'new meta' as purported by complainers and the likes of the same league.
Tell that to my heavy armor 600 regen stam sorc.
leepalmer95 wrote: »Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »I'd like to choose option 3 until I read 'was never the reason for heavy armour being OP'.
So basically you're saying heavy armour is, in any regards, OP?
My good sir, heavy armour is never OP in the first place. To me, it's very balanced as it is and ZOS, to my surprise, actually did a really good job balancing heavy armour. The resistance offered is not substantial by any means. Constitution passive only works every 4 seconds and in fights, it will never be good enough as a substitute to resource regens. Med and light armour passives offer way more sustainable regen and those resources are what's actually keeping any player alive.
Why do you think magclasses always wear robes and stamclasses wear jacks? Simple, to have high regen in their respective resources for healing/defensive shields and dodge roll and/or vigour.
Heavy armour does not provide any substantial sustain. Black Rose only amplifies it by 40% and that is by no means a lot as according to some people. If you actually look at the regen bonus from constitution in conjunction with said set, they only increase the 4-sec regen by little amounts. It'll only become borderline moderate and a lot when you wear 7 pieces of heavy armour but who actually wears full-7 pieces in topline PvP anyways? To add to that, your base regen is already very low if you wear 7 pieces of heavy armour.
For PvE, heavy armour is not imposing on anyone.
That said, I don't see how heavy armour and Black Rose are the 'new meta' as purported by complainers and the likes of the same league.
Tell that to my heavy armor 600 regen stam sorc.
@leepalmer95 You and i both know that is an issue with Dark Deal, not HA
Because that is the last armor type left?
can you explain me why I dont see anyone other than sneakynb gangers in medium and shieldstacking sorcs with cloaking magnb's in light? only those that I wrote are able to wear non heavy armor and also just nb's also wearing heaavy armor if they are independet to stealth.
Regen is not the only thing that medium armor gives... Are we forgetting that the much complained about 1 shot sneaky builds that there was an entire mod built to counter is a medium armor build? Shield stacking, healing bombing, all these builds are non heavy armor builds. Medium armor and light armor have their place they simply do not do the same thing as heavy.you say heavy armor is balanced...so what about medium and light armors? ofc these armors giving you some more regens but only to 1 stat while heavy armor giving you both mag ans stam in fight.
This is flat out false, so I cannot explain it other than to say it is your imagination.if four you heavy armor is balance please explain me then why 80%+ of cyrodil population is running in heavy armor? not only as tank but to deal damage also
You have already listed the reasons, if you are not shield stacking, sneaking, healing, sniping, or otherwise performing the roles light and medium armor were made for then yes, you should be in heavy armor! This just makes sense... What? Do you think there should be a zero armor option?list me a few reasons why I should wear light or medium armor in open fight while I cant shieldstack and if I not rely on stealth
Because that is the last armor type left?
can you explain me why I dont see anyone other than sneakynb gangers in medium and shieldstacking sorcs with cloaking magnb's in light? only those that I wrote are able to wear non heavy armor and also just nb's also wearing heaavy armor if they are independet to stealth.
I think you just asked why you don't see anyone other than the people wearing Medium armor and those that wear light armor, not in heavy armor. That question makes no sense.
TBH, I don't notice a huge difference between:
Black Rose + some weapon damage jewelry vs.
7th Legion + some stamina recovery jewelry
in terms of sustain and damage. Some people really seem to hate it though, so I'll just shrug and use one of my other setups to do what feels pretty similar to me.
Evasion: Casting this ability and its morphs now requires that you wear 5 pieces of Medium Armor.
Because that is the last armor type left?
can you explain me why I dont see anyone other than sneakynb gangers in medium and shieldstacking sorcs with cloaking magnb's in light? only those that I wrote are able to wear non heavy armor and also just nb's also wearing heaavy armor if they are independet to stealth.
I think you just asked why you don't see anyone other than the people wearing Medium armor and those that wear light armor, not in heavy armor. That question makes no sense.
I asked why I dont see medium, light armor on anyone who isnt nb or mag sorc
light armor is only for shieldstackers or cloaking nb, if not cloak then also mag nb wont use this crappy armor, medium armor is viable only for gangers to just mobility in stealth, thats all
now to compare, I talked some with my friend, he is stam dk, 30k health, heavy armored cap resists, 35k max stamina and 2.5k wepaon dmg buffed, 11.5k tooltip on dizzying swing
me, ganger, 3.5k weapon dmg buffed, 30k max stam, medium armor, 17k health and 13k dizzying swing tooltip and 11k-12k resists
now tell me what is balance here? while he have over 2x more resist than me, 2x more health than me + healing buff from armor, he have less wepaon dmg and not much more max stamina he have just less tooltip on his skill which will hit me similiar hard or harder me because of my lack of resists than I hitting him with cap ressists with same skill.
I will need to hit him 4-6+- times to kill him if he wont hea as glass cannon max burst build while he on tankly build will need only 2-3 hits to rekt me
this is difference in damage between heavy armored players in pvp and medium/light armor in pvp
to additional in heavy armor you have much much bigger survivability+ sustain ofc because you will dont have only 1 stat on high regen, you will have nice stat return into both which will incude to this you will have more resources to buffs/debuffs.
It is especially on mag build good because of additional stamina return for CC, dodge etc, on stmaina build you will have more magica to better sustain using class utility skills
The problem with heavy is that it isn't properly balanced with other armor weights. Heavy armor users do sacrifice a little bit of damage, as well as some sustain in their preferred resource pool, but that's nothing compared to everything they gain: they can sustain both resource pools, they are vastly more durable, they have more health, and they have insane healing power. If you aren't a ganker, then light or medium armor are just barely worth considering.Heavy armor does exactly what it's supposed to. People choosing it for survivability in pvp does not mean it's op.
leepalmer95 wrote: »Tell that to my heavy armor 600 regen stam sorc.
@leepalmer95leepalmer95 wrote: »Tell that to my 600 regen stam dk.
I think BR will still be the most used HA set for PvP. Since it is a PvP set, that is fine by me.
But no. The HA meta and HA being OP, never had anything to do with BR. But people will always point to the most visible object, when they do not really know what is going on. Therefore people blame BR, instead of HA in general. BR is not overpowered. HA is.
Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Tell that to my heavy armor 600 regen stam sorc.@leepalmer95leepalmer95 wrote: »Tell that to my 600 regen stam dk.
Lmao. Then that means Sorc needs rebalancing and that has nothing to do with heavy armour passives. Your Sorc has class abilities and passives that can generate huge amounts of regens and that explains a lot why you only need 600 base regen in the first place.
As for your DK, you have GDB, Draw Essence, Battle Roar and Helping Hands for regen issues. Your one sentence statement is of no substance, mate.
If you take constitution + Black Rose for regen purposes (excluding your class passives and/or abilities), then it'll only increase your total regen to about 1400-1600. Take note that constitution works in every 4 second intervals and you MUST take damage in order for the passive to work. Total regen of up to 1600 for every 4 seconds isn't OP.
Makes sense?
@Edziu
As for your questions, I believe a lot of other posters who have responded to you here have mentioned some of what I had in mind.