Why do they keep nerfing classes, skills, and gear?

olivesforge

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

There's no new real content for ages, new sets/scaled ones took charge and the damage potential in PVE is so ridiculous that organized groups can literally ignore most, if not all mechanics in an environment where even trash mobs have nearly the same health as dungeon bosses.

The solution was to bring new content, but instead they chose to "balance" skills only for PVE. PVP demands still suffering from lack of meaningful balance changes imo.

There's a few good reasons for nerfs that people have pointed out - PvP'ers are right about some PvE content being super easy and the stupidity of having soloable pledges, and PvE'rs just have to say the word "Radiant" to point out a case in which PvP whining led to a nerf as well.

Of the reasons nerfs have become necessary, though... there is one which is absolutely, totally, completely and hilariously non-existent, and that is... the lack of new content. People who gripe about how ESO hasn't received enough new content have clearly never played any of its competitors. ESO has received major DLCs at the rate of semiannually to quarterly. Its major competitors have received them biannually at best, with the notable exception of the other major title to have an incredibly troubled launch - Star Trek Online.

It would be right to blame the Russians, aliens and the Skooma Cat before blaming a lack of content for the current balance issues.

ColoursYouHave

J2JMC wrote: »

Where was everybody complaining about the power creep when the CP system first came out or when ZOS blatantly said they knew the system was broken but didn't think it would ve a problem so soon?

Right here on the forums voicing their displeasure towards the CP system...

But yeah, the CP system is one of the largest culprits here, and ZOS really didn't think it through too well. Usually, when developers deal with power creep, it is somewhat inadvertent; an unforeseen consequence of other changes. The CP system, on the other hand, is direct, intentional power creep that they decided to add into the game, and now they spend all their resources trying to combat that power creep. ZOS pretty much intentionally created a problem that other developers are actively trying to avoid.

I'd also add that the removal of softcaps was a prerequisite for the CP system introducing so much power creep into the game. Remove CP and bring back softcaps and these high-burst high-sustain mega-tank builds don't exist anymore.

Mojmir

zo $ implemented a bad system with champion points,and we get to suffer for it.

DragonBound

justin.a.hairb14_ESO wrote: »

I play ESO and all mmo's for that matter for the PVE dungeons, raids, and item drops. In ESO it seems that they are so worried about balancing PVP that they on the other hand are destroying things for people who play for PVE. Why can't they make all nerfs to classes, skills, and gear only take effect when you zone into cyrodill so they can stop ruining the PVE side of the game. Seems like all they care about is endgame PVP and if they ruin the PVE in the process then oh well. What I and most PVE players want is constant updates with more powerful gear, skills, harder dungeons, and raids (trials). I like running raids to get better and better gear so I move on to even harder stuff. I fell like after playing this game from launch my character isn't growing stronger anymore because all they do is nerf making me weaker. Due to this I may be forced to sign up for FFXIV A Realm Reborn because they actually care about End Game raiding and making an awesome tier based raiding and dungeon experience for PVE players to enjoy. I feel abandoned in the cold as a PVE player in ESO and PVE just is not what it could or should be due to them only seeming to care about PVP endgame..

Just wait and see, they already announced some fixes after the nerf patch notes, so they are listening wait until the notes till tomorrow before we say the sky is falling just saying.

Thealteregoroman

WHY CAN'T YALL SEE IT?!?!?!?! IT's cause SPELLCRAFTING IS COMING.



Its so obvi.

Agalloch

This is the first MMO where I see devs nerfing players . They are nerfing the players because we dont have new content since august 20116. It is a very bad choice.

I am sure not many people can solo vet dungeons...

But I am sure nerfing the players is a cheap idea ...very cheap...

They could add a new tier to the existing content ( elite dungeons for example) instead...

This nerfs affecting the pve are the worst decision to ESO the devs ever made.

A MMO is all about progression...and ESO must provide it in both ways , vertical and horizontal..

Many players are powerful because they are more skilled than the new ones..they have many hours in the game ..spent to achieve best rotation..and best game play. If ZOS nerf them...what will be the difference between the vets and newcomers?

This is not communism ZOS ...Not all the people are the same..The real life is all about learning and hierarchy, to become better than the others..or help others to become better. The same mechanism is also in all the MMOs I played since 1996 .


I don't want ESO to become a Call Of Duty with Housing simulator and Casino games. Or a fashion simulator like Guild Wars 2 ( anyway GW2 have lots of things that I 'd like to see like the achievement rewards or the guild system)

I dont want ESO to fall down because the devs's bad decisions.

Yes , you want to balance things. You could separate pvp and pve even more .

This is all that must be do. Take decisions for pvp besides of PVE . Let the PVE as it is...and quickly add new content or implement a new tier of difficulty to the dungeons.

Also improve your tutorial by adding tips about how to make a build , how to make rotations..

Show the players more about your game ...Explain the game mechanics to better understand why a set is better than the other ..

Improve your gear comparison ..to be better understood by the players .

We need better tips, more numbers..more information about what we do in the game .

There are many new players that could be more skilled than the vets also.. This is all about how they play the game.

I finished many vet dungeons with players with low cp. Sometimes many of the new players know "the things better" because they use addons. I often meet vet players 600-800+ that play miserably because they dont have a clue about mechanics, numbers ...not using any addons.
The real problem is caused by the devs because not every player try to understand the mechanics of the game. If they were explained already in the game ..things could be better . There are also many elitist players who play on console.

They dont have access to addons. They become elitist because they make research, read websites, learn the game, practice rotations a lot. ...This consume alot of time and passion. Respect for them. But not everyone are doing the same...That's why we see lots of post on the forums about how bad experience is to do dungeons.

The real gap is between the players who understand and know how to play the game and the others ..This is the REAL gap.


We need a togglable option in the game between vanilla and MMO style ( with many infos the players need).

This "nerf" we need...:) More MMO features ( toggleable of course).

We dont need nerfs for PVE .







English is not my native language.

justin.a.hairb14_ESO

Obviously the thing should be to not nerf gear or players, but make new harder Trials/Dungeons.

ESO is good at making updates that further extend the rinse and repeat of current content without ever really creating new content. An example of this was Vet ranks and Champion points up to 160. End gear goes from Champion point 1 to champion point 160 at a max. That in itself isn't the issue. The issue is they never released new gear for all those levels from 1 to 160 like other MMOS do. A Champion 1 can be wearing the exact same item he got from the very same zone/mob as a champion 160, but the only difference is one is a more powerful version of the same item. By doing this they can rinse and repeat the same zones and items with no need to create new gear, zones, and monsters to slay. So their new updates aren't really new at all, they are just creating a grind to already created content. This is an absolute trash, but very inexpensive way to prolong their game with little over head in development costs.

Games like WOW, Everquest 1 & 2. Star Wars the Old Republic to name just a few do things quite differently. They typically release a brand new expansion every year. The expansions generally have 6 to 8 new dungeons, 6 to 8 new raids, 6 to 8 new outside zones, a few new cities in the mix, a new playable class, hundreds of new items, gear drops, monster, and a new race. They then charge you generally 29.99 to 39.99 for the expansion. The free updates/patches through out the year generally include an occasional dungeon addition or raid as well. The point being other games release content that actually brings a brand new whole continent to explore with *** tons of new dungeons, raids, monsters, towns, new class, new starting areas, new race, tons of new gear, quests, and abilities/skills for everyone thus making their characters even more powerful so they can do the released harder content.

ESO does not do their game justice by continuing to rinse and repeat everything while never creating anything truly new for us to enjoy. This is why I am looking at going back to Everquest or some other mmo and I am done with Elder Scrolls.

Everquest has like 23 expansions, the game was released in 1999, the latest expansion released recently has so much new content it is overwhelming and will keep you busy for the rest of the year probably. The best part is it is all on a brand new continent where every town, zone, dungeon, raid, monster, quest is brand new never before seen stuff. If ESO started doing things like this I would't have a problem with their game.

A CHAMPION 1 SHOULD NOT be running the same zones as a CHAMPION 160! 160 should be running completely different harder zones with completely different and more powerful gear!

AlexTech0x

There is one reason for that: they still have the dream of a game in which global changes can balance the difference between PvP and PvE together. That goal is impossible and with it they assure themselves a need to work.
If things would be separated from each other, they wouldn't need massive nerfs like in this patch.

timidobserver

Because they didn't call the person that originally implemented soft caps and ask him/her why they did it.

hmsdragonfly

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

This is the first MMO where I see devs nerfing players . They are nerfing the players because we dont have new content since august 20116. It is a very bad choice.

I am sure not many people can solo vet dungeons...

But I am sure nerfing the players is a cheap idea ...very cheap...

They could add a new tier to the existing content ( elite dungeons for example) instead...

This nerfs affecting the pve are the worst decision to ESO the devs ever made.

A MMO is all about progression...and ESO must provide it in both ways , vertical and horizontal..

Many players are powerful because they are more skilled than the new ones..they have many hours in the game ..spent to achieve best rotation..and best game play. If ZOS nerf them...what will be the difference between the vets and newcomers?

This is not communism ZOS ...Not all the people are the same..The real life is all about learning and hierarchy, to become better than the others..or help others to become better. The same mechanism is also in all the MMOs I played since 1996 .


I don't want ESO to become a Call Of Duty with Housing simulator and Casino games. Or a fashion simulator like Guild Wars 2 ( anyway GW2 have lots of things that I 'd like to see like the achievement rewards or the guild system)

I dont want ESO to fall down because the devs's bad decisions.

Yes , you want to balance things. You could separate pvp and pve even more .

This is all that must be do. Take decisions for pvp besides of PVE . Let the PVE as it is...and quickly add new content or implement a new tier of difficulty to the dungeons.

Also improve your tutorial by adding tips about how to make a build , how to make rotations..

Show the players more about your game ...Explain the game mechanics to better understand why a set is better than the other ..

Improve your gear comparison ..to be better understood by the players .

We need better tips, more numbers..more information about what we do in the game .

There are many new players that could be more skilled than the vets also.. This is all about how they play the game.

I finished many vet dungeons with players with low cp. Sometimes many of the new players know "the things better" because they use addons. I often meet vet players 600-800+ that play miserably because they dont have a clue about mechanics, numbers ...not using any addons.
The real problem is caused by the devs because not every player try to understand the mechanics of the game. If they were explained already in the game ..things could be better . There are also many elitist players who play on console.

They dont have access to addons. They become elitist because they make research, read websites, learn the game, practice rotations a lot. ...This consume alot of time and passion. Respect for them. But not everyone are doing the same...That's why we see lots of post on the forums about how bad experience is to do dungeons.

The real gap is between the players who understand and know how to play the game and the others ..This is the REAL gap.


We need a togglable option in the game between vanilla and MMO style ( with many infos the players need).

This "nerf" we need...:) More MMO features ( toggleable of course).

We dont need nerfs for PVE .







English is not my native language.

Did you just blame the lack of new content? ESO receives new content twice a year, or even 4 times a year, look at other MMOs, tell me which one has more content drops than ESO?

The nerf is needed, for the better of the game. ESO will die, if CP561 people with decent builds can continue to solo vet dungeons with raw damage. You are saying, give players harder content that makes their raw damage obsolete, then give them better gear that will provide them even more raw damage? (because clearly if harder content offers gear of the same effectiveness, people will just burn throw much easier content lol). Do you want to turn ESO into a freaking endless grindfest? The grind is already bad, what are you thinking? That's the worst game design i have ever heard of, seriously. Trials or harder content in general are supposed to be harder in term of mechanics, so that only mechanically skilled players can do, not just "moar health moar health" to satisfy the freaking OP raw damage that people produce.

CP needs nerf. It's the truth.

hmsdragonfly

justin.a.hairb14_ESO wrote: »

Obviously the thing should be to not nerf gear or players, but make new harder Trials/Dungeons.

ESO is good at making updates that further extend the rinse and repeat of current content without ever really creating new content. An example of this was Vet ranks and Champion points up to 160. End gear goes from Champion point 1 to champion point 160 at a max. That in itself isn't the issue. The issue is they never released new gear for all those levels from 1 to 160 like other MMOS do. A Champion 1 can be wearing the exact same item he got from the very same zone/mob as a champion 160, but the only difference is one is a more powerful version of the same item. By doing this they can rinse and repeat the same zones and items with no need to create new gear, zones, and monsters to slay. So their new updates aren't really new at all, they are just creating a grind to already created content. This is an absolute trash, but very inexpensive way to prolong their game with little over head in development costs.

Games like WOW, Everquest 1 & 2. Star Wars the Old Republic to name just a few do things quite differently. They typically release a brand new expansion every year. The expansions generally have 6 to 8 new dungeons, 6 to 8 new raids, 6 to 8 new outside zones, a few new cities in the mix, a new playable class, hundreds of new items, gear drops, monster, and a new race. They then charge you generally 29.99 to 39.99 for the expansion. The free updates/patches through out the year generally include an occasional dungeon addition or raid as well. The point being other games release content that actually brings a brand new whole continent to explore with *** tons of new dungeons, raids, monsters, towns, new class, new starting areas, new race, tons of new gear, quests, and abilities/skills for everyone thus making their characters even more powerful so they can do the released harder content.

ESO does not do their game justice by continuing to rinse and repeat everything while never creating anything truly new for us to enjoy. This is why I am looking at going back to Everquest or some other mmo and I am done with Elder Scrolls.

Everquest has like 23 expansions, the game was released in 1999, the latest expansion released recently has so much new content it is overwhelming and will keep you busy for the rest of the year probably. The best part is it is all on a brand new continent where every town, zone, dungeon, raid, monster, quest is brand new never before seen stuff. If ESO started doing things like this I would't have a problem with their game.

A CHAMPION 1 SHOULD NOT be running the same zones as a CHAMPION 160! 160 should be running completely different harder zones with completely different and more powerful gear!

Imperial City? Orsinium? Thieves Guild? Dark Brotherhood? No new content? Come on!

"A CHAMPION 1 SHOULD NOT be running the same zones as a CHAMPION 160"
-> This is an Elder Scrolls game, a true Elder Scrolls game, not your typical generic MMO. "You can do anything you want, wherever you want, whenever you want", a freaking level 1 should be able to play with his CP561 friend. You are suggesting to trade the soul of the game - what makes the game actually good - to Molag Bal, to satisfy your personal need of a generic WOW's MMO clone. You can still play WoW, you know. It's not like the game is dead or something.