Nerf to Leeching Plate, Bahara's, Syvarra's, etc?

GrumpyDuckling

After reading that proc sets will no longer crit, does that mean that sets like Leeching Plate, Bahara's Curse, and Syvarra's Scales (sets which proc to do a small amount of damage over time) will also no longer crit?

Or is the nerf just to sets that damage enemies with a "single instance" of damage, like Viper, Velidreth, etc?

susmitds

Everything RIP Saptank.

GrumpyDuckling

susmitds wrote: »

Everything RIP Saptank.

Wow, I'm sure I'm really late with this reaction, but... removing crit from all proc sets seems like a horrible change to try to fix the problem with what appears to be a handful of proc sets.

redspecter23

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Everything RIP Saptank.

Wow, I'm sure I'm really late with this reaction, but... removing crit from all proc sets seems like a horrible change to try to fix the problem with what appears to be a handful of proc sets.

That seems to be the general feeling from the players. Now try to convince ZOS. They seem to be blind to this being an issue at all.

The_Saint

grothdarr and other monsterset (illambris) are dots so no single instance of damage and cant crit any more...
Also healerset like bogdan

Also
Overwhelming Surge
Destructive Mage
Vicious Death
Night Terror
Shadow of the Red Mountain
Sunderflame
and and and


what will be with bonus like shadow walker?
While you are Sneaking or invisible and are not moving, heal for 2150 Health and restore 2150 Stamina every 1 second.

For me also a proc

Lucky28

yeah, it's a terrible change that doesn't address the issue in the first place. terribly disappointing.

i'd prefer they leave proc sets alone for now and fix them right next update.

EldritchPenguin

Lucky28 wrote: »

yeah, it's a terrible change that doesn't address the issue in the first place. terribly disappointing.

i'd prefer they leave proc sets alone for now and fix them right next update.

It does address a different issue: the way they work on live, scaling off of crit and CP and ignoring Weapon/Spell Damage and Magicka/Stamina, is pretty nonsensical and shoehorns people into pure crit builds if they want to get the most out of their (almost always best in slot) monster sets. Alongside the changes to Major and Minor Force, it's pretty clear that the devs want to try to sway people away from raw crit builds and branch out to different kinds of ways of boosting our DPS.

Brrrofski

Good, baharas was super op. Sick and tired of people killing me with it!

Yeh, devs never though about it. Typical of their blanket nerf mentality. Why not just adjust sets which were overperforming?

Luckily I moved on from baharas last patch on my saptank. Sucks that sets like that and leeching are getting nerfed though. Absolutely idiotic if you ask me.

Lucky28

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

yeah, it's a terrible change that doesn't address the issue in the first place. terribly disappointing.

i'd prefer they leave proc sets alone for now and fix them right next update.

It does address a different issue: the way they work on live, scaling off of crit and CP and ignoring Weapon/Spell Damage and Magicka/Stamina, is pretty nonsensical and shoehorns people into pure crit builds if they want to get the most out of their (almost always best in slot) monster sets. Alongside the changes to Major and Minor Force, it's pretty clear that the devs want to try to sway people away from raw crit builds and branch out to different kinds of ways of boosting our DPS.

it's dumbing it down. stacking all into weapon/spell damage without having to balance weapon/spell damage, Regen, mitigation, crit chance and crit damage. it's simply aimed to make the game easier (which ZoS pretty much said) which is sad, the complexity ESO offered was why i played this game over others.

and it was just a lazy nerf to the very real problem of stacking proc sets.

OtarTheMad

I had two reactions to the news that proc sets can not longer crit. One was "what the @#$! were they thinking" due to the many sets that are now "bad" sets, maybe not useless but bad. The second reaction was "well how were they going to address it differently" I am not sure how ZOS could have handled proc sets any differently.

It might solve the issue of them being BIS for PvE which in turn is opening up the doors for different builds to shine but in PvP, where Impen is God, it does not do much to my knowledge.

EldritchPenguin

Lucky28 wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

yeah, it's a terrible change that doesn't address the issue in the first place. terribly disappointing.

i'd prefer they leave proc sets alone for now and fix them right next update.

It does address a different issue: the way they work on live, scaling off of crit and CP and ignoring Weapon/Spell Damage and Magicka/Stamina, is pretty nonsensical and shoehorns people into pure crit builds if they want to get the most out of their (almost always best in slot) monster sets. Alongside the changes to Major and Minor Force, it's pretty clear that the devs want to try to sway people away from raw crit builds and branch out to different kinds of ways of boosting our DPS.

it's dumbing it down. stacking all into weapon/spell damage without having to balance weapon/spell damage, Regen, mitigation, crit chance and crit damage. it's simply aimed to make the game easier (which ZoS pretty much said) which is sad, the complexity ESO offered was why i played this game over others.

and it was just a lazy nerf to the very real problem of stacking proc sets.

I can't say it's what I would have done, or that it was the best solution, but I think the sets using just our crit chance and CP was a bad mechanic. In all honesty, having them scale off of just CP doesn't sit very well with me, either. I'm mostly just trying to shine a positive light on this change.

Personally, I would have rebalanced the overperforming ones, lower the overall damage values of almost all of them, and then made them draw from weapon/spell damage and Magicka/Stamina (whichever was higher on your particular setup), and added a 1 second GCD to all damage procs. That way, monster sets don't shoehorn us into crit builds, and it simultaneously makes it much less attractive to stack proc sets, because the damage of each individual proc would suffer for every new proc set added.

I think the most important thing, though, is that proc sets should always deal less damage than abilities, since they have no resource cost and operate independently of skill rotations.

I don't agree that this change dumbs it down, however. I think it'll make people think more than once about what sets to run, other than just saying "LOL Grothdarr" for pretty much everything. I also think that lowering the overall DPS of proc sets makes it harder to depend on them for damage, and places a greater emphasis on using abilities for damage instead.

DHale

I am glad they are nerfing proc sets then people will die to the ability I was going to do anyway and then they will go and complain about the other thing that killed them.

Calboy

This is single handedly the worst thing zos is doing in the coming update. Just because a handful of sets were capable of stacking high burst procs they nerf every single damn proc set in the game. Why not look at these certain sets individually and make some tweaks from there? For a start some sets have a really high chance to proc very high unavoidable damage (viper) while others have a really low chance to proc avoidable damage (nerien'eth)

It just does not make sense.

STEVIL

IMo this gets back to the basic oversimplification of the whole proc sets complaints meme.

go back and look you will find many complaints about how "no skill required" and "rng is bad" applied to these and those being highlighted as "the problem"... when really it was not so much that as to their net yield especially on some buids.

Ashen grip has been around a while and is a proc pure and simple.

to me the issue is what is allowed and what isn't.

1 - Should it be allowed that ANY character can be killed in a SAK (successful ambush kill0 and never get a shot off or a serious reaction chance?
If no: add a timer that says "for the first a-b second, no more than half your health can be lost". Done.
if yes: Continue to 2 and 3 and 4.

2 - Is it reasonable to expect that SAKs happen but only if the attacker is running a high offense low survival type of build (say a med/lht max dam type ganker build?
if no: revisit your answer to question 1 and take a look at 4
if yes: make all damage from any source have to take into account the character build and stats such as maxsta and maxspldam so hvy armor all health builds dont proc as much damage as those do in medium/lght but are more suvivable.

3 - is it reasonable that SAKs happen but only when the "victim" is equipped in more "vulnerable" type builds (likely cuz they wanted the offense gains and made the decision to trade off survivability)?
If no: revisit your answer to 1 and take a look at 4.
if yes: well obviously nerf burst or raise defensive baseline.

4 - is it reasonable that SAKs happen but ONLy when both 2 and 3 are in effect - a high damage optimized for offense but vulnerable attacks vs a similar high offense sacrificed survival victim?
if no: Really really really revisit your answer to #1.
if yes: some combo or tandem of 2-3 yes are likely.

The broad brush no-crit heal/dam procs does cut broadly and does touch the "requires no skill" or "rng is bad" type of complaints as to what people wanted in the game.

it may address some of the highest level of burst but might be insufficient to along finish the issue (as if it could be finished)

But more is yet to come.

idk

Brrrofski wrote: »

Good, baharas was super op. Sick and tired of people killing me with it!

Yeh, devs never though about it. Typical of their blanket nerf mentality. Why not just adjust sets which were overperforming?

Luckily I moved on from baharas last patch on my saptank. Sucks that sets like that and leeching are getting nerfed though. Absolutely idiotic if you ask me.

@Brrrofski

Those geared well for PvP will see little change in the damage they receive from proc sets since we minimize the bonus crit damage received anyhow.

It seems Zos sees many in a Cyrodiil not geared properly and as such they are making a change to help them but not the average avid PvPer.

Brrrofski

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Good, baharas was super op. Sick and tired of people killing me with it!

Yeh, devs never though about it. Typical of their blanket nerf mentality. Why not just adjust sets which were overperforming?

Luckily I moved on from baharas last patch on my saptank. Sucks that sets like that and leeching are getting nerfed though. Absolutely idiotic if you ask me.

@Brrrofski

Those geared well for PvP will see little change in the damage they receive from proc sets since we minimize the bonus crit damage received anyhow.

It seems Zos sees many in a Cyrodiil not geared properly and as such they are making a change to help them but not the average avid PvPer.

Yeh, I run minimum of 2k crit resist.

Every capable player in PvP runs at least 5 impen. Even sorcs wear impen.

ku5h

Placing a GCD (2-5sec) would solve only problem proc sets ever had and that is stacking them and procing them at the same time. Sure, some sets need some adjustment, like Tremorscale snare (who ever thought of 70% snare for 8 sec with 4 sec cooldown is a clown) and maybe tone down dmg from some sets like Veli, Viper, Widdowmaker, Selene....
What they did still dont address the main issue of procing up to 3 sets at the same time, but will ruin 80% of the sets that were in no way OP.
But thats ZoS i guess, they will rather make up laughable "balance" changes then listen to words of reason...