Necromancy

MythicEmperor

Hello, all I know this concept has been in circulation for a while, but I have decided to necro it. Now that I got that pun out of the way, I would like to first explain my reasoning. In the Elder Scrolls game series, the ability to play the bad guy is essential. In Morrowind, you can kill Vivec. In Oblivion, you can conjure Daedra, even thought Mehrunes Dagon is the main antagonist. In Skyrim, you can ride Dragons. Why can't you be a necromancer because Mannimarco is also one? This argument against the class or skill line's implementation is old and quite frankly makes little sense.

Keep in mind that this class will be incomplete to begin with, but will be worked on more as I obtain time and suggestions!

Now then, there are two main schools of thought in regard to necromancy. I will speak on both issues, as I feel that both could be effectively implemented. The first is a new class.This would be a breath of fresh air for the game as many have grown tired of the current classes. I understand that many wish for the current classes to be balanced first, but lets be honest: that will never happen. The classes will change and have their ups and down, but they will never be perfect. It is best to accept that now. Anyways, in my personal opinion these would be the best skill trees for a necromancer class:

1. Mastery of Death (Keep in mind these tree names are obviously not permanent, feel free to suggest better names)
The main point of this tree is obviously necromancy itself. This is also the reason that many argue that an entire class is not necessary, but the other trees can offer a lot to make other styles more accessible. I will also not be including any numbers in order to avoid comments about it being OP.
Utimate:
Conjure Flesh Atronach
a. This morph could make it do something cool like make it explode into a bunch of zombies when it dies
b. This morph would completely change the ultimate into an ability called "Legion of the Dead" which gives you an entourage of undead minions. 6 or 7 should be enough. They will be low damage individually, but if all of them attack one target it could be devastating. Perhaps each attack they do will take away a tiny bit of ultimate until you are all out. Nothing near sorc's overload as these minions do small bits of damage separately.

1. Conjure Skeleton- This should be the baseline summon for the class. It should be relatively weak, but the morphs will provide utility.
a. Conjure Skeletal Archer- This is will provide some nice range, especially for stamancers
b. Conjure Skeletal Warden- This would be great for solo builds or vMA as a tank for any glass cannon builds, which is basically what magancers should be

2. Life Link- Mastery over death also greatly helps with one's longevity. I think that at least a single self heal within the class is warranted, and it should be a burst heal imho. This should be the necro's main source of bulkiness in battle. I think that a unique spin for this heal is that if you have a minion out, half of it will go to that, keeping with the glass cannon theme. If not, it has the full amount (which should be pretty high).
a. If you have a minion out, half of the heal will go to that, keeping with the glass cannon theme. If not, you heal the normal amount.
b. The heal goes entirely to the minion? Idk, feel free to make suggestions for anything you think could be better!

3. Conjure Zombie- This would be the main DPS pet. It would basically act as the coolest DOT in the game.
a. This morph would increase the damage of the zombie, but make it not a toggle (I think that necromancers would be a good class for some nice drawbacks)
b. This morph would give the zombie some disease DOT

5. I would imagine some sort of minion buff would go here.

2. Pestilence (or a name to that effect, this will be a disease dot line)
Please note that I have not had as much time to think out the other 2 skill lines, so I will take any ideas I can get, giving credit of course
Ultimate:
Aura of Death
This ultimate will provide the necromancer with some nice AOE damage

1. Decay's Touch- Necromancer's main dps spammable, there will be another spammable that is utility focused upcoming when I finish working out the final, frosty tree

2. Dark Blight- This will be the class's main dot, giving it sustainable damage
a. Dread Hex- This morph will make it absorb health
b. Malediction- This will absorb magicka, providing sustain to builds specced for damage

3. Blasphemy- This ability will be unique in that it increases your magicka regeneration, parallel to the sorcery given by other skills in the game
a. A morph would obviously give you stamina regen instead
b. Perhaps this morph could offer minor/major sorcery as well, or something to that effect. Maybe it could give a chance of increasing your raw spell damage. not much, granted, but still something unique

4. I am still coming up with ideas for this skill tree, forgive me xD

Chill of Death
This will be a tanking/ dps line, which should synergize well with ZOS's changes to frost staves.

This class is still a major wip, and I will add more things to it as soon as I get the chance. I cannot wait to hear your suggestions! Also, forgive me if there are any typos, I am in a bit of a rush.

Yo_Donno

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I understand that many wish for the current classes to be balanced first, but lets be honest: that will never happen. The classes will change and have their ups and down, but they will never be perfect. It is best to accept that now.

Finally someone said it.

derpmander

As long as the pets/summons do not:

• Steal SPC buffs from other players.
• Steal Aggro off the Tank.
• Stay in red like PUGs.

We gucci.

S1ipperyJim

Most of your 'necromancer' skills are actually conjuration magic which is not the same thing at all. I don't know if you've ever played Warframe but the Nekros skill which raises the shades of dead enemies to fight for you would be more in line with a necromancer class.

LegacyDM

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Why can't you be a necromancer because Mannimarco is also one? This argument against the class or skill line's implementation is old and quite frankly makes little sense.

No you can't be a necro because Zos can't implement new classes. They can't even balance the ones they have. The fact they introduced passive skill lines in tg and assassins guild is a clear indicator they either don't have the resources to add new classes/skills or they are too nervous to do it.maybe they will add new classes in a few years when they runout of ideas and need a cash grab. But until then, enjoy the ones you have because it's gonna be a while.

LordGavus

The best way I've seen to implement necromancy is to have the skill line under world skills. Then everybody can have it reducing balance issues.
In terms of lore issues, you would have to complete a quest to unlock the skills which would also explain why you are allowed (reluctantly) to use them.

I'd love to see necromancy brought in, but I'm not holding my breath.

MythicEmperor

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Most of your 'necromancer' skills are actually conjuration magic which is not the same thing at all. I don't know if you've ever played Warframe but the Nekros skill which raises the shades of dead enemies to fight for you would be more in line with a necromancer class.

That sounds very interesting! As I stated, this is a heavy WIP. Any suggestions will be very helpful.

Narvuntien

Well if Vvandenfel is coming up.. The Telvanni are known necromancers...not accoicated with the worm cult. Easily slide that into the game.

Necromancy is just another tool

I would like to be able to use it.

Katahdin

Has there ever been a necromancer class or skills in any of the other ES games?

Honest question, because I honestly dont know. I never played the other games.

lihentian

i want stuff like corpse explosion, bone armor, also for the summon it should stick with undead. such as spirit or zombie..etc and you should be able to summon more then one.

Also there should be a passive that random summon zombie when a living is slaying..(with upper limit)

MythicEmperor

Katahdin wrote: »

Has there ever been a necromancer class or skills in any of the other ES games?

Honest question, because I honestly dont know. I never played the other games.

There have been necromancy based skills, yes. In Skyrim, for example, I always kept two undead thralls.

MythicEmperor

lihentian wrote: »

i want stuff like corpse explosion, bone armor, also for the summon it should stick with undead. such as spirit or zombie..etc and you should be able to summon more then one.

Also there should be a passive that random summon zombie when a living is slaying..(with upper limit)

Flesh atronachs are about as undead as you can get

TheShadowScout

I'll say the same I always say when this comes up...

I dislike the idea of them just adding new classes, due to the vexation potential at this point in the game - it would be great for newbie players, but very annoying for old hands who already made 12 characters (and spent a lot of time levelling them through all the content), and who may be thinking "Aaarghhh, why in oblivions name has this class not been around back when I made that character, it would have been sooo much better for my backstory..."

But I really would love to see them breathe some new life into the class system to get everyone all excited again... just done in a way that allows -everyone- to benefit equally, both new players who just started their very first character, and players who have been in ESO since launch... by allowing everyone to "refit" new classy-ness to the existing characters.

Something... along the lines of my old class morph idea, maybe: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/240186/class-morph-idea/p1
(and yes, there is necromancy in there as well as everything else I could think of)

Mwnci

I've taken a mix of what you have and came up with the follow two skill lines.
Feel free to chop and change as you like.

Note: Haven't gone into any real depth here, simply used my imagination.

Lich - Ranged DPS, staff focus, summoning/DoT build with a few light heals

• Ability 1: Raise Zombie - Raise a zombie from the grave to assist you in battle.
  • Morph 1: Infected - Infect your zombie with a virus that causes DoT. Use this ability to kill your zombie and spread the infection to surrounding enemies, causes Raise Zombie CD.
  • Morph 2: Explosive - Causes your zombie to explode when defeated, or when cast again, causing moderate damage in a large area, stunning up to N targets, causes Raise Zombie CD.
• Ability 2: Life Link - Steal the life of the target, healing you for n%.
  • Morph 1: Brotherhood - Ciphon the life of your target into your zombie, healing it for n%. If no zombie is present, Brotherhood heals you instead.
  • Morph 2: Sacrifice - Takes the life of your zombie, instantly killing it to heal you back to full health. ( Has long cast time, causes CD on Raise Zombie, cannot be cast within n seconds of each other )
• Ability 3: Ghost Legion - Summons a horde of ghosts to attack random targets for N seconds. Targets are hit with Fear, causing them to cower in terror, unable to attack or move for N seconds.
  • Morph 1: Spectre - Summons a single powerful spectre to fight for you for N seconds. The spectre acts as a secondary pet whilst it is active.
  • Morph 2: Triumvirate - Summon three powerful ghosts to attack your target, the three ghosts are: Ghost of the Hunter ( archer ), Ghost of the Fighter ( warrior ), Ghost of the Mage ( caster ).
• Ability 4: Necrotic Plague - Infect a single target with a deadly virus, causing damage over time.
  • Morph 1: Blood Plague - Decreases DoT, but causes the plague to spread when a target is hit ( works well with Explosive Zombie ),
  • Morph 2: Life Plague - Each tick of necrotic plague heals you for n% of the damage caused ( single target only )
• Ability 5: Phylactery - Gather the blood essence of a target, weakening them against your attacks.
  • Morph 1: Lich - Removes the debuff and stores your blood essence instead of the target's, weakening you slightly against their attacks, however, if you die with your phylactery , you drop it and are brought back to life with half health/stam/magicka.
  • Morph 2: Summon - Cast once to store the targets blood essence for 1 hour. Cast again to summon the ghostly essence of your target to fight for you for N seconds. Summoning the target uses up the phylactery. Good if your Zombie is on CD.
• ( Thought: Be able to use Phylactery - Lich or Summon on a player? For example, on a tank? )
• Ultimate : Summon Flesh Atronach - Summon a Flesh Atronach to do your bidding
  • Morph 1: Rigor Mortis - Hardens your Flesh Atronach's skin, decreasing his damage but granting him increased health and taunt abilities ( fixed "tanking" option if you're overwhelmed or fighting a difficult target )
  • Morph 2: Decay - Causes your Flesh Atronach to apply Decay with each hit (but not within N seconds) to a single target, Decay is a stacking debuff that causes Necrotic Plague to tick faster for the same damage. ( Great for boss fights )

Revenant - Ranged Utility DPS. Utilises magic that harnesses the power of souls. Focused around a debuff called Broken Soul. Focus is to aid allies.

• Ability 1: Broken Soul - For N seconds, the target is weakened against magical and physical attacks, also increases the damage dealt by Ravage, Mend, Rend, Shatter, and Reverbate.
  • Morph 1: Shackled Soul - Removes countdown of Broken Soul and makes it stackable, each stack increases the weakened state of the target. Removes buff to Ravage, Mend, Rend, Shatter and Reverberate.
  • Morph 2: Wailing Soul - Broken Soul is AoE, duration is shortend.
• Ability 1: Ravage - Ravages the targets soul, causing devasting DoT.
  • Morph 1: Rend - Ravage becomes an instant cast damage attack than Rends the targets soul. Chance to proc
  • Morph 2: Mend - Burst Soul + heals you for N% of the damage caused.
• Ability 3: Scatter - Scatters the targets soul for N seconds, stunning them for the duration. Any interaction breaks Scatter.
  • Morph 1: Shatter - Shatters the target for N seconds dealing high DoT.
  • Morph 2: Seal Link - Seals the target, and it's linked soul for N Seconds, stunning them both. Each linked soul halves the stun duration. ( Becareful using this with Mass Soul Link )
• Ability 4: Soul Link - Link a targets soul to another, causing all damage, debuffs, stuns etc to be shared equally. Lasts N seconds.
  • Morph 1: Reverberate - Death of a linked soul causes a reverberation, causing the surviving targets soul to explode. Stuns and causes minor damage with small-AoE.
  • Morph 2: Mass Soul Link - AoE that links up to 5 target souls together, link souls take half damage from attacks to the primary soul. Lasts N seconds. ( stuns/debuffs no longer shared )
• Ability 5: Mirror - Create a doppelganger that will harrass the target for as long as the target is alive, or until the doppelganger is killed. ( Play tip: Soul Link the doppelganger to the target. )
  • Morph 1: Mirror Link - Create a doppelganger with Soul Link already applied
  • Morph 2: Countdown - Create a timed doppelganger that explodes, causing AoE damage and applying Burst Soul to the target.
• Ultimate : Soul Well - Creates a Well of Souls at the target location. Allies inside the Well's radius receive a boost to their healing received, and can activate Well Link. When Well Link is activated, killing enemies will replenish the Well of Souls, keeping it active for longer.
  • Morph 1: Soul Wind - Creates an AoE wind of souls at the target location. Targets caught in the wind are affected with Broken Soul (or Shackled, each tick adds another Shackled Soul), are ravaged by the winds destructive power and pushed away from the location.
  • Morph 2: Soul Vortex - Creates a vortex at the target location, drawing the souls of the dead from the area. Enemies caught in the vortex are pulled towards it, assailed by the souls of the dead as they do so.

Haven't though of any passives as yet.

CardboardedBox

I would love if there was a passive that allowed you to buff out your undead followers by giving them armor or something so they last longer. And when they do die (......again, ha), you can just loot the armor back from them.

MythicEmperor

Mwnci wrote: »

I've taken a mix of what you have and came up with the follow two skill lines.
Feel free to chop and change as you like.

Note: Haven't gone into any real depth here, simply used my imagination.

Lich - Ranged DPS, staff focus, summoning/DoT build with a few light heals

• Ability 1: Raise Zombie - Raise a zombie from the grave to assist you in battle.
  • Morph 1: Infected - Infect your zombie with a virus that causes DoT. Use this ability to kill your zombie and spread the infection to surrounding enemies, causes Raise Zombie CD.
  • Morph 2: Explosive - Causes your zombie to explode when defeated, or when cast again, causing moderate damage in a large area, stunning up to N targets, causes Raise Zombie CD.
• Ability 2: Life Link - Steal the life of the target, healing you for n%.
  • Morph 1: Brotherhood - Ciphon the life of your target into your zombie, healing it for n%. If no zombie is present, Brotherhood heals you instead.
  • Morph 2: Sacrifice - Takes the life of your zombie, instantly killing it to heal you back to full health. ( Has long cast time, causes CD on Raise Zombie, cannot be cast within n seconds of each other )
• Ability 3: Ghost Legion - Summons a horde of ghosts to attack random targets for N seconds. Targets are hit with Fear, causing them to cower in terror, unable to attack or move for N seconds.
  • Morph 1: Spectre - Summons a single powerful spectre to fight for you for N seconds. The spectre acts as a secondary pet whilst it is active.
  • Morph 2: Triumvirate - Summon three powerful ghosts to attack your target, the three ghosts are: Ghost of the Hunter ( archer ), Ghost of the Fighter ( warrior ), Ghost of the Mage ( caster ).
• Ability 4: Necrotic Plague - Infect a single target with a deadly virus, causing damage over time.
  • Morph 1: Blood Plague - Decreases DoT, but causes the plague to spread when a target is hit ( works well with Explosive Zombie ),
  • Morph 2: Life Plague - Each tick of necrotic plague heals you for n% of the damage caused ( single target only )
• Ability 5: Phylactery - Gather the blood essence of a target, weakening them against your attacks.
  • Morph 1: Lich - Removes the debuff and stores your blood essence instead of the target's, weakening you slightly against their attacks, however, if you die with your phylactery , you drop it and are brought back to life with half health/stam/magicka.
  • Morph 2: Summon - Cast once to store the targets blood essence for 1 hour. Cast again to summon the ghostly essence of your target to fight for you for N seconds. Summoning the target uses up the phylactery. Good if your Zombie is on CD.
• ( Thought: Be able to use Phylactery - Lich or Summon on a player? For example, on a tank? )
• Ultimate : Summon Flesh Atronach - Summon a Flesh Atronach to do your bidding
  • Morph 1: Rigor Mortis - Hardens your Flesh Atronach's skin, decreasing his damage but granting him increased health and taunt abilities ( fixed "tanking" option if you're overwhelmed or fighting a difficult target )
  • Morph 2: Decay - Causes your Flesh Atronach to apply Decay with each hit (but not within N seconds) to a single target, Decay is a stacking debuff that causes Necrotic Plague to tick faster for the same damage. ( Great for boss fights )

Revenant - Ranged Utility DPS. Utilises magic that harnesses the power of souls. Focused around a debuff called Broken Soul. Focus is to aid allies.

• Ability 1: Broken Soul - For N seconds, the target is weakened against magical and physical attacks, also increases the damage dealt by Ravage, Mend, Rend, Shatter, and Reverbate.
  • Morph 1: Shackled Soul - Removes countdown of Broken Soul and makes it stackable, each stack increases the weakened state of the target. Removes buff to Ravage, Mend, Rend, Shatter and Reverberate.
  • Morph 2: Wailing Soul - Broken Soul is AoE, duration is shortend.
• Ability 1: Ravage - Ravages the targets soul, causing devasting DoT.
  • Morph 1: Rend - Ravage becomes an instant cast damage attack than Rends the targets soul. Chance to proc
  • Morph 2: Mend - Burst Soul + heals you for N% of the damage caused.
• Ability 3: Scatter - Scatters the targets soul for N seconds, stunning them for the duration. Any interaction breaks Scatter.
  • Morph 1: Shatter - Shatters the target for N seconds dealing high DoT.
  • Morph 2: Seal Link - Seals the target, and it's linked soul for N Seconds, stunning them both. Each linked soul halves the stun duration. ( Becareful using this with Mass Soul Link )
• Ability 4: Soul Link - Link a targets soul to another, causing all damage, debuffs, stuns etc to be shared equally. Lasts N seconds.
  • Morph 1: Reverberate - Death of a linked soul causes a reverberation, causing the surviving targets soul to explode. Stuns and causes minor damage with small-AoE.
  • Morph 2: Mass Soul Link - AoE that links up to 5 target souls together, link souls take half damage from attacks to the primary soul. Lasts N seconds. ( stuns/debuffs no longer shared )
• Ability 5: Mirror - Create a doppelganger that will harrass the target for as long as the target is alive, or until the doppelganger is killed. ( Play tip: Soul Link the doppelganger to the target. )
  • Morph 1: Mirror Link - Create a doppelganger with Soul Link already applied
  • Morph 2: Countdown - Create a timed doppelganger that explodes, causing AoE damage and applying Burst Soul to the target.
• Ultimate : Soul Well - Creates a Well of Souls at the target location. Allies inside the Well's radius receive a boost to their healing received, and can activate Well Link. When Well Link is activated, killing enemies will replenish the Well of Souls, keeping it active for longer.
  • Morph 1: Soul Wind - Creates an AoE wind of souls at the target location. Targets caught in the wind are affected with Broken Soul (or Shackled, each tick adds another Shackled Soul), are ravaged by the winds destructive power and pushed away from the location.
  • Morph 2: Soul Vortex - Creates a vortex at the target location, drawing the souls of the dead from the area. Enemies caught in the vortex are pulled towards it, assailed by the souls of the dead as they do so.

Haven't though of any passives as yet.

This is all very good, I will try to incorporate things from here into the OP!

MythicEmperor

CardboardedBox wrote: »

I would love if there was a passive that allowed you to buff out your undead followers by giving them armor or something so they last longer. And when they do die (......again, ha), you can just loot the armor back from them.

This sounds very cool, it would certainly give the passives a feel akin to that of the Skyrim perks

starkerealm

Katahdin wrote: »

Has there ever been a necromancer class or skills in any of the other ES games?

Honest question, because I honestly dont know. I never played the other games.

Class? No. Daggerfall had a necromancy skill, though most of the spells got rolled into Conjuration with Morrowind. That said, Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion did let you create your own classes, and name them whatever you wanted. However, there were no premade necromancer classes.

Izariel

I believe Mannimarco was a necromancer wasn't he? Necromancers are definitely part of Elder Scrolls Lore so that is not a problem. I mean, one of the cinematics shows a massive undead army being raised to attack Cyrodil.

I would support a brand new class for this because there is a lot of depth available for a class like this. A conjuration line for minions, a casting line for dps, and a curse/support line for buffs and or heals based on life leech etc.

I would love it.

Anhedonie

I remember some dev saying stuff like "necromancers are the bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them" or something along the lines.

Mwnci

Anhedonie wrote: »

I remember some dev saying stuff like "necromancers are the bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them" or something along the lines.

And yet we can capture the souls of our enemies to power our weapons, keep our armour enchanted, or even to bring ourselves and our allies back from the dead.

So that dev can shove off with that line of thinking.

starkerealm

Mwnci wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

I remember some dev saying stuff like "necromancers are the bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them" or something along the lines.

And yet we can capture the souls of our enemies to power our weapons, keeping our armour enchanted, or even to bring ourselves and our allies back from the dead.

So that dev can shove off with that line of thinking.

There's a difference between being evil, and being a card carrying supervillian. We're allowed to be the former, not the latter.

MythicEmperor

Anhedonie wrote: »

I remember some dev saying stuff like "necromancers are the bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them" or something along the lines.

Any Elder Scrolls game allows you to sympathize with the baddies. As stated in my OP, in Oblivion, your main enemy is a Daedric Prince, yet you can summon Daedra. In Morrowind, you can summon daedra and undead. In Skyrim, you can wield the powers of dragons (the game's main baddies) as the last Dovahkiin. You can even join the Dark Brotherhood in ESO. You can't tell me that they are "good". That brings another problem. What is morally good in TES? Is necromancy inherently evil? Yes, it is generally used for nefarious goals, but I believe that the pure act of manipulating the matter of creatures who once lived is not evil in itself. From this understanding, a good-aligned necromancer is possible.

MythicEmperor

Izariel wrote: »

I believe Mannimarco was a necromancer wasn't he? Necromancers are definitely part of Elder Scrolls Lore so that is not a problem. I mean, one of the cinematics shows a massive undead army being raised to attack Cyrodil.

I would support a brand new class for this because there is a lot of depth available for a class like this. A conjuration line for minions, a casting line for dps, and a curse/support line for buffs and or heals based on life leech etc.

I would love it.

He is, and yes, necromancers have been a part of TES since the beginning.

idk

@MythicEmperor

Considering how sorc pet builds are not her strong I doubt a necro summon build would be worth the time.

With summons one loses control of their deeps. Lose control and dps drops.

MythicEmperor

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@MythicEmperor

Considering how sorc pet builds are not her strong I doubt a necro summon build would be worth the time.

With summons one loses control of their deeps. Lose control and dps drops.

Very true, but hopefully, by the time it is added, pets may finally be sorted out. If not, I am sure that the undead minions will function differently, so maybe they will not share the same problems.

Mwnci

starkerealm wrote: »

Mwnci wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

I remember some dev saying stuff like "necromancers are the bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them" or something along the lines.

And yet we can capture the souls of our enemies to power our weapons, keeping our armour enchanted, or even to bring ourselves and our allies back from the dead.

So that dev can shove off with that line of thinking.

There's a difference between being evil, and being a card carrying supervillian. We're allowed to be the former, not the latter.

Being a necromancer doesn't automatically mean you're a supervillian. It doesn't even mean you're evil. Morally bunkrupt, maybe, but not inherently evil.

Necromancy is simply a tool, good or evil is up to the user of the tool. - some wise Conjuration NPC at the Mage's College in Skyrim.

MythicEmperor

Mwnci wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mwnci wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

I remember some dev saying stuff like "necromancers are the bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them" or something along the lines.

And yet we can capture the souls of our enemies to power our weapons, keeping our armour enchanted, or even to bring ourselves and our allies back from the dead.

So that dev can shove off with that line of thinking.

There's a difference between being evil, and being a card carrying supervillian. We're allowed to be the former, not the latter.

Being a necromancer doesn't automatically mean you're a supervillian. It doesn't even mean you're evil. Morally bunkrupt, maybe, but not inherently evil.

Necromancy is simply a tool, good or evil is up to the user of the tool. - some wise Conjuration NPC at the Mage's College in Skyrim.

Precisely. Magical influence over death is not inherently different, morally speaking, from magical influence over anything else, such as elemental magic. Furthermore, do we call warriors evil because they wield blades that could be used for evil? Of course not. The individual has authority over his tool, much alike the necromancer.

Mwnci

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Mwnci wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Mwnci wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

I remember some dev saying stuff like "necromancers are the bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them" or something along the lines.

And yet we can capture the souls of our enemies to power our weapons, keeping our armour enchanted, or even to bring ourselves and our allies back from the dead.

So that dev can shove off with that line of thinking.

There's a difference between being evil, and being a card carrying supervillian. We're allowed to be the former, not the latter.

Being a necromancer doesn't automatically mean you're a supervillian. It doesn't even mean you're evil. Morally bunkrupt, maybe, but not inherently evil.

Necromancy is simply a tool, good or evil is up to the user of the tool. - some wise Conjuration NPC at the Mage's College in Skyrim.

Precisely. Magical influence over death is not inherently different, morally speaking, from magical influence over anything else, such as elemental magic. Furthermore, do we call warriors evil because they wield blades that could be used for evil? Of course not. The individual has authority over his tool, much alike the necromancer.

To further on this, how is the summoning of familiar, clannfear, twilight and other Daetric creatures any different from raising a zombie from the earth? Why is one considered evil and the other not?

Is it because one summons "demonic" ( and therefore inherently evil ) monsters from Oblivion which makes it "okay" and the other summons fellow humans from the grave, which is "not okay" / "violation of the natural order", i.e: man's hubris?

Or is it because there's a perception of evil intent in the use of necromancy because its wielders are largely evil and completely off their trollies?

Nyghthowler

When you rescue Tharn from the tower he has you create a Flesh Atronach for him and comments that he will 'Make a Necromancer of you, yet.'
I would say we have already started down the path, because we willingly used necromancy.

TheShadowScout

Anhedonie wrote: »

I remember some dev saying stuff like "necromancers are the bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them" or something along the lines.

Oh?
Like... thieves are bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them? No, wait...
Perhaps... assassins are bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them? No, wait...
Or... demon summoners are bad guys and you're not meant to be one of them? No, wait...
Maybe... vampires are bad guys... uhm...
...no, this isn't working!

Also, remember that quest in Grahtwood when you visit a certain altmer to help with some daedric problems and free a long dead priestess of azura? She looked pretty necromantic to me, and yet... kinda seemed a good gal, yes?

And as was mentioned, every character that made it though the castle of the worm has already dabbled a little in necromancy...

The point is, there is no more any lore reason against player necromancy as there is against player thievery, player vampirism, players taking assassination contracts or players summoning daedra. Yeah, necromancers -are- usually the enemy, you take them out by the cartload and stop their nefarious schemes all over tamriel...
...but noone really said that you cannot secretly learn their trade yourself. If only to "fight fire with fire". It is a classic tale, is it not?

That too is a reason I like my already mentioned class morph idea - more charqacter development, so you might start as run of the mill sorceror, but could in the course of your questing pick up necromancy, likely from reading spellbooks you took off the bodies of all the necromancers you have slain in your fight against the worm cult... hey, its not that implausible, right?