HATS AND HAIR

SanderBuraas

Currently, headwear such as hats and hoods remove the hair of our characters. This is detrimental in many ways, especially if you wish to recreate a character from another game. Allow me to demonstrate the issue and suggest a solution.



The two first screenshots show how hats currently work. The bangs of my character suddenly disappear when she puts on a hood. In the screenshots below, I did a quick edit to show how it should be. The hood is worn and the hair remains.

I do not believe this is difficult to implement. For instance, it could be coded so that headwear overwrites the hair model and texture. Though, the longer hairstyles would have to be manually edited so that they do not stick out of hats. Therefore, the art and animation department should take on the HH project (hats and hair), and manually adjust how all the hairstyles work with hats.

Kuroinu

I'm surprised that the images you edited aren't the current way this is implemented. The lack of attention to detail on little things like this irks me more than a major bug, lol. All the little irksome problems build up though... :x

menedhyn

Seems like the lighting isn't quite right either. If the hood is material, why is the side of the neck lit in that way? I'm all for this because lack of attention to detail bothers me more than it probably should.

SanderBuraas

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

I'm surprised that the images you edited aren't the current way this is implemented. The lack of attention to detail on little things like this irks me more than a major bug, lol. All the little irksome problems build up though... :x

@Riko_Futatabi

Hair is actually very important

Kuroinu

Smepic wrote: »

Hair is actually very important

Agent 47 does not approve.


I do though!

SanderBuraas

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Hair is actually very important

Agent 47 does not approve.


I do though!

@Riko_Futatabi

Haha, I just meant that it doesn't make sense to lose your hair when you put on a hat

Pandorii

There's one hat in the game that shows hair. It's a crown exclusive of course, and even that is pretty inadequate because it has like 4 templates of hairs and matches yours to whichever of those 4 it fits closely to.

My logic, if they have the coding for that, they should do it for all, even if it's half baked. Maybe they're experimenting with the code though and don't want to commit until they nail it down.

SanderBuraas

Pandorii wrote: »

There's one hat in the game that shows hair. It's a crown exclusive of course, and even that is pretty inadequate because it has like 4 templates of hairs and matches yours to whichever of those 4 it fits closely to.

My logic, if they have the coding for that, they should do it for all, even if it's half baked. Maybe they're experimenting with the code though and don't want to commit until they nail it down.

@Pandorii

Which hat do you mean?

Pandorii

Feathered Bycoket Cap. From the storm atro crates.

itehache

Yup, and this is the reason why I do not wear any hats. I really hope they take a look into this and fix it some day, I know there are worse issues but little details are important too.

svartorn

Already established ZOS cares more about profit than implementing stuff properly.

SanderBuraas

itehache wrote: »

Yup, and this is the reason why I do not wear any hats. I really hope they take a look into this and fix it some day, I know there are worse issues but little details are important too.

@itehache

I plan on using a jester hat that was datamined to arrive in the crown store, but not so much if it makes me bald.

Shader_Shibes

It not only removes them, but sometimes, my Khajiit specifically, it changes the hair style. On my Khajiit she has the Geyser hair-do thing, put a hat on and somehow she gets long dreaded pony tail.

Tabbycat

My guess is hats and hair occupy the same "slot" on the skeleton.

itehache

Smepic wrote: »

itehache wrote: »

Yup, and this is the reason why I do not wear any hats. I really hope they take a look into this and fix it some day, I know there are worse issues but little details are important too.

@itehache

I plan on using a jester hat that was datamined to arrive in the crown store, but not so much if it makes me bald.

I have some hats that were given as rewards in festivals and quests, but when I try them on I just don't like how my character looks like. Same with armor helmets! I currently have my main with "helmet hidden", because she is wearing Selene's -.- and my alt is wearing the skinchanger heavy helmet which looks cool and would cover her hair anyway because of the design.

SanderBuraas

Tabbycat wrote: »

My guess is hats and hair occupy the same "slot" on the skeleton.

@Tabbycat

Perhaps, but they can introduce another slot or layer that appears when "Hairstyle1" and "Hat4" are worn simultanously – "Hairstyle1Fringe" for instance.

MissBizz

Hats making me go bald (or use whatever pre-attached wig the hat has) is the reason I don't like hats.

SanderBuraas

MissBizz wrote: »

Hats making me go bald (or use whatever pre-attached wig the hat has) is the reason I don't like hats.

@MissBizz

I agree. It is just as strange when your hair changes upon hat usage.

Elara_Northwind

I don't wear hats for this reason

Mettaricana

My biggest ignored issue is breton corset riding outfit and the tattoos glitch out on humans

DMuehlhausen

itehache wrote: »

Yup, and this is the reason why I do not wear any hats. I really hope they take a look into this and fix it some day, I know there are worse issues but little details are important too.

Nothing is there to fix it. Look at essentially every other MMO, or even a lot of single player games out there. When you put on a hat or helmet it becomes what shows on your head so it removes everything. Making the hair show is just more strain on a video card so developers don't show it to make the game run smoother.

SanderBuraas

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

itehache wrote: »

Yup, and this is the reason why I do not wear any hats. I really hope they take a look into this and fix it some day, I know there are worse issues but little details are important too.

Nothing is there to fix it. Look at essentially every other MMO, or even a lot of single player games out there. When you put on a hat or helmet it becomes what shows on your head so it removes everything. Making the hair show is just more strain on a video card so developers don't show it to make the game run smoother.

@DMuehlhausen

Beware, the fringe will crash your game. Hair has minimal impact on game performance.

Mwnci

There are two options to go down:

1) OP's suggestion. Duplicating every head piece for each hair style so as to create a stylish and effective look. E.g.: OP's character has bangs, mine does not. Therefore, two head pieces are required for that one hair style. One showing the bangs, one without bangs. Simply overlaying a head item ( such as OP's hood ) can cause unnecessary, and ugly, clipping so duplication is necessary ( unless I'm missing some new technology developers can use, I don't work in game development ).

For example, ZeniMax creates 100 new hair styles. They also have 100 different types of hoods. In order for OP's suggestion to be realised, ZeniMax would have to create 100 hood adaptations for each hair style. That's 10,000 new hoods.

Pro's: Looks good. More variety.
Con's: More work. More cost. More time. Unnecessary duplication.

2) Current implementation.

Pro's: Looks good. Less work. Less cost. Less time.
Con's: Doesn't look as good as option 1.

Development time and resources are finite.

I'm not against OP's suggestion, I'd prefer it to be honest, however I am merely highlighting the amount work likely necessary to make it happen.

tonemd

Pandorii wrote: »

There's one hat in the game that shows hair. It's a crown exclusive of course, and even that is pretty inadequate because it has like 4 templates of hairs and matches yours to whichever of those 4 it fits closely to.

My logic, if they have the coding for that, they should do it for all, even if it's half baked. Maybe they're experimenting with the code though and don't want to commit until they nail it down.

Hmm. Even if they designed all hats with predesignated hair i think it would be better than the bald bandit looks we currently get.

As long as the hair is separately colorable.

SanderBuraas

Mwnci wrote: »

There are two options to go down:

1) OP's suggestion. Duplicating every head piece for each hair style so as to create a stylish and effective look. E.g.: OP's character has bangs, mine does not. Therefore, two head pieces are required for that one hair style. One showing the bangs, one without bangs. Simply overlaying a head item ( such as OP's hood ) can cause unnecessary, and ugly, clipping so duplication is necessary ( unless I'm missing some new technology developers can use, I don't work in game development ).

For example, ZeniMax creates 100 new hair styles. They also have 100 different types of hoods. In order for OP's suggestion to be realised, ZeniMax would have to create 100 hood adaptations for each hair style. That's 10,000 new hoods.

Pro's: Looks good. More variety.
Con's: More work. More cost. More time. Unnecessary duplication.

2) Current implementation.

Pro's: Looks good. Less work. Less cost. Less time.
Con's: Doesn't look as good as option 1.

Development time and resources are finite.

I'm not against OP's suggestion, I'd prefer it to be honest, however I am merely highlighting the amount work likely necessary to make it happen.

@Mwnci

The amount of work needed is less than you think. Firstly, there are hairstyles that have no fringe and those who would not be visible with a hat anyway. Creating a fringe would simply be copy pasting a section of the hair. If needed, there could be "Hairstyle1FringeHood" and "Hairstyle1FringeHelmet". The fringes are then checked for clipping and manually edited if there are any issues.

Zenimax have a team designated to art and animation. They would not be expected to finish it in a day.

Mwnci

Smepic wrote: »

Mwnci wrote: »

There are two options to go down:

1) OP's suggestion. Duplicating every head piece for each hair style so as to create a stylish and effective look. E.g.: OP's character has bangs, mine does not. Therefore, two head pieces are required for that one hair style. One showing the bangs, one without bangs. Simply overlaying a head item ( such as OP's hood ) can cause unnecessary, and ugly, clipping so duplication is necessary ( unless I'm missing some new technology developers can use, I don't work in game development ).

For example, ZeniMax creates 100 new hair styles. They also have 100 different types of hoods. In order for OP's suggestion to be realised, ZeniMax would have to create 100 hood adaptations for each hair style. That's 10,000 new hoods.

Pro's: Looks good. More variety.
Con's: More work. More cost. More time. Unnecessary duplication.

2) Current implementation.

Pro's: Looks good. Less work. Less cost. Less time.
Con's: Doesn't look as good as option 1.

Development time and resources are finite.

I'm not against OP's suggestion, I'd prefer it to be honest, however I am merely highlighting the amount work likely necessary to make it happen.

@Mwnci

> The amount of work needed is less than you think. Firstly, there are hairstyles that have no fringe and those who would not be visible with a hat anyway. Creating a fringe would simply be copy pasting a section of the hair. If needed, there could be "Hairstyle1FringeHood" and "Hairstyle1FringeHelmet". The fringes are then checked for clipping and manually edited if there are any issues.

>Zenimax have a team designated to art and animation. They would not be expected to finish it in a day.

> I'm not sure how much work is involved, but I suspect it's much more than copy/paste with some editing tweaks.

> I understand that, but that wasn't my point. What I was trying to convey could be summarised into my second last line: "Development time and resources are finite" - what this means is if it's cheaper, easier and faster that's the way it will likely be done.

SanderBuraas

Mwnci wrote: »

> I understand that, but that wasn't my point. What I was trying to convey could be summarised into my second last line: "Development time and resources are finite" - what this means is if it's cheaper, easier and faster that's the way it will likely be done.

@Mwnci

Yes, that is true, but I think it is an important detail that is worth the time and effort.

captainwolfos

I bought a new Covenant Lion circlet for my Covenant loyalist, as well as the Rider Hood, and found to my dismay that the circlet also gets hidden by the hood.

I am disappoint.

AlwaysOnFire

the elder scrolls community eagerly awaits the advancement of cyber hat technology

SanderBuraas

captainwolfos wrote: »

I bought a new Covenant Lion circlet for my Covenant loyalist, as well as the Rider Hood, and found to my dismay that the circlet also gets hidden by the hood.

I am disappoint.

@captainwolfos

There are more issues like that. For example, if you use a disguise and a crown store hairstyle at the same time, the hair will not show. I thought wigs were the perfect disguise.

captainwolfos

Smepic wrote: »

captainwolfos wrote: »

I bought a new Covenant Lion circlet for my Covenant loyalist, as well as the Rider Hood, and found to my dismay that the circlet also gets hidden by the hood.

I am disappoint.

@captainwolfos

There are more issues like that. For example, if you use a disguise and a crown store hairstyle at the same time, the hair will not show. I thought wigs were the perfect disguise.

I noticed that, too! I can't believe I forgot about that. One of my altmer is part of the Heritance, and putting the Heritance Disguise on after buying the Dominion locks for her was... disappointing.

I kind of wish I bought the Dominion scout costumes while they were available. Had I known back then they'd be dyeable, I probably would've got it for her instead of the disguise.