PVP & Veteran Dungeons for the not very skilled

GrimMauKin

I've been playing on and off (casually) since the beginning and have been quite happy playing PVE. I've also only played a single character (a Nightblade which is neither PvE or PvP focussed or built) but I'd quite like to get into a bit of PVP. I'm nearly 50 and my reactions aren't what they were and I'm rather struggling to cope with the noticeable ramp up in speed between PvE and PvP (I'm usually dead in seconds, sometimes because I've ended up in the map screen or inventory etc. whilst getting in a flap); after the event I usually know what I'd like to have tried had I survived long enough I also haven't the time or inclination to make a detailed study of builds or skills and have ended up building the character I wanted to play, rather that one that's optimised (after several years I've finally had to admit that a hybrid really doesn't cut it and am starting to move towards stamina). I know that practice is really the only way to improve and duelling seems a good was to practice but I don't offer much sport and tend not to get asked a second time. Are there any guilds for oldies where people might be a might more patient?

I also wouldn't mind trying out some veteran dungeons but I've noticed a fair amount of hostility on the boards directed towards players to don't perform 100% (some even questioning players' entitlement to join groups); should I accept that I'm just going to annoy people and just give this up as a lost cause?

lehran

Can't comment much about PvP since I'm only beginning to get into it myself (finally got the gear I want to use for it). It sounds like you need to work a bit more on situational awareness though if you're frequently in inventory/map screen when getting attacked unless you meant that more of a "I press random buttons and pop open inventory because I'm flustered" in which case you need to work a bit more on keeping your composure under pressure.

For vet dungeons, figure out what role you are, and start with the easy ones (the dungeons in the initial zones like Banished Cells I or Fungal Grotto I). If you can handle the DLC dungeons on normal, you're more than equipped to handle these on vet. Get halfway-decent gear (getting everything up to purple is quite cheap) and figure out your attributes/skills before going in. You don't need to go for BiS right away, but at least go for halfway-decent crafted sets instead of just wearing arbitrary stuff. Look up builds online if you have no idea what you're doing and customize them to your playstyle.

ZOS_JohanaB

We've moved this thread to Dungeons, Trials & Arenas

SolarCat02

I stink at PvP, but I can recommend finding a group to run with, and you will want some form of interrupt/stun/crowd control on your bar. That's the extent of my knowledge there.

For veteran dungeons, for starting I would actually recommend Wayrest Sewers II, Banished Cells II, City of Ash I, Vaults of Madness, and if you have a good handle on the mechanics also add Spindleclutch II. These are the easier ones, and a good starting point. Make sure you perform the role you picked in the finder and you should be fine.

GrimMauKin

I probably just need to keep persevering; I get a bit disheartened seeing some of the amazing achievements better players pull off.

Danksta

Some random PvP tips:

The armor trait impenetrable is great for survivability. Sharpened trait for weapons outperforms all others by a pretty wide margin.

Don't get too high or low, be even-keeled. Once you get to the point where you can kill players your natural reaction will be to get pumped up. That adrenaline will only hurt your cause to kill more.

Having a way to stun an enemy is essential. Once you stun an enemy you'll notice swirling lines at there feet that signifies that they have stun immunity that lasts 6 seconds. If they don't have the immunity, stun them. You do this to drain their stamina to the point they can't break the stun and you can burst them down, or as a defensive tactic to relieve the pressure they are applying on you.

When I first started in Cyrodiil I would just follow around a large group and as I got more comfortable I slowly started getting further away to the point I was just going solo. When I did this I started dying a lot again, but it ultimately made me a better player. Even now when I come up with a new build, even if it's meant for group play I like to run it solo at first. It makes me self-reliant an when you get back to group play you're that much more of a threat.

GrimMauKin

Thanks for the thoughts; perhaps I just need to accept that I'm never going to be a great player and just focus on having fun (hopefully I can find some groups that'll be supportive rather than just kicking to out).

Good kit and plenty of practice/perseverance can only help.

Syrani

I am also an older gamer. My first "PC" was a Tandy TRS80 circa 1983. I know that situational awareness can be tough for us older people, but it is something that can be practiced. Also, I am not sure if you are on PC or not, but if you are, are you using a mouse and keyboard? If you are, you may find it easier to use something like this Razer Tartarus.

http://www.razerzone.com/store/razer-tartarus-chroma

That thing is awesome, and puts all of your attacks at your finger tips - literally. No more hunting and pecking over a keyboard - you just have to practice with it a little and it will become muscle memory. Use that in conjunction with a gaming mouse, and it will help your reaction time immensely.

Finding a patient group is definitely a good idea, and I hope you find one. Playing games, for me, is a way to keep my mind and reactions sharp.

Good luck!

GrimMauKin

Thanks, it's nice to know that I'm not alone. Our first computer was a good old ZX81 (with a full 1k of memory) from around the same time. I'm currently playing on PC via an XBox One controller (which I like); I've added a ChatPad to it too. I do have a Logitech G13 but being left handed it's not ideal but it might be work trying it along with the mouse.

Thanks again for the tips. Spending some time in Cyrodiil and the Imperial City might get me thinking slight faster (I'm starting to feel like my Grandparents must have when we tried to teach them Pong!).

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Danksta wrote: »

Some random PvP tips:

The armor trait impenetrable is great for survivability. Sharpened trait for weapons outperforms all others by a pretty wide margin.

Don't get too high or low, be even-keeled. Once you get to the point where you can kill players your natural reaction will be to get pumped up. That adrenaline will only hurt your cause to kill more.

Having a way to stun an enemy is essential. Once you stun an enemy you'll notice swirling lines at there feet that signifies that they have stun immunity that lasts 6 seconds. If they don't have the immunity, stun them. You do this to drain their stamina to the point they can't break the stun and you can burst them down, or as a defensive tactic to relieve the pressure they are applying on you.

When I first started in Cyrodiil I would just follow around a large group and as I got more comfortable I slowly started getting further away to the point I was just going solo. When I did this I started dying a lot again, but it ultimately made me a better player. Even now when I come up with a new build, even if it's meant for group play I like to run it solo at first. It makes me self-reliant an when you get back to group play you're that much more of a threat.

Good advice from @Danksta as usual. I'm not an impen guy but it is great for people starting out. Also, personally, I think it's most important to be able to avoid CC even moreso than casting it. Immovable potions are your best friend in Cyrodiil.

Other stuff ...

- PVP is about pressure in many cases. You need to be relentless in a fight so your opponents are spending all their resources on defense. For stam builds this is often achieved by hammering them with heavy attacks, but even squishy players can attack relentlessly. If you have a staff, try holding down attack at all times in combat. You won't be able to animation cancel but you will be hitting someone 100% of the time. This is a great way to earn kills.
- Conversely learn how to animation cancel. You don't need to be a 5 moves in 2 seconds person but even learning to block cancel an attack can save you in cases where you're all of a sudden casting a Soul Assault and notice you have 17% health.
- Keep your head on a swivel.
- Also, and most important, if it looks like a trap, it is a trap. And if it doesn't look like a trap, it's definitely a trap.

FriedEggSandwich

Another bit of random pvp advice if you think you're slow; make one of your skill slots on either bar a "panic button". Mine is left ctrl on the keyboard even though I use a razer naga. I have ctrl bound to skill slot 5 and there I keep streak on bar 1 and hardened ward on bar 2. So no matter what bar I'm on hitting left ctrl will either cast a ward or streak me forward. Not sure what your equivalent "panic" skills would be on NB.

Also to get used to knowing what bar you're on at a glance by learning it's colour. For example as a sorc with destro on front bar and resto on back bar, my front bar is mostly purple/blue and my back bar has a yellow bit in it. This is useful if both your weapon types look similar.

Also learn the audio cues of combat. Listen out for the "combat drums", this can alert you to a nearby fight or even help you know when you've been targeted from stealth. Also the sound of a cloacking NB, or the sound of snipe in flight, or even the sound of dark flare in flight. Sound can give you prior warning of many things in pvp and reacting appropriately to them will help you live.

Danksta

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Some random PvP tips:

The armor trait impenetrable is great for survivability. Sharpened trait for weapons outperforms all others by a pretty wide margin.

Don't get too high or low, be even-keeled. Once you get to the point where you can kill players your natural reaction will be to get pumped up. That adrenaline will only hurt your cause to kill more.

Having a way to stun an enemy is essential. Once you stun an enemy you'll notice swirling lines at there feet that signifies that they have stun immunity that lasts 6 seconds. If they don't have the immunity, stun them. You do this to drain their stamina to the point they can't break the stun and you can burst them down, or as a defensive tactic to relieve the pressure they are applying on you.

When I first started in Cyrodiil I would just follow around a large group and as I got more comfortable I slowly started getting further away to the point I was just going solo. When I did this I started dying a lot again, but it ultimately made me a better player. Even now when I come up with a new build, even if it's meant for group play I like to run it solo at first. It makes me self-reliant an when you get back to group play you're that much more of a threat.

Good advice from @Danksta as usual. I'm not an impen guy but it is great for people starting out. Also, personally, I think it's most important to be able to avoid CC even moreso than casting it. Immovable potions are your best friend in Cyrodiil.

Other stuff ...

- PVP is about pressure in many cases. You need to be relentless in a fight so your opponents are spending all their resources on defense. For stam builds this is often achieved by hammering them with heavy attacks, but even squishy players can attack relentlessly. If you have a staff, try holding down attack at all times in combat. You won't be able to animation cancel but you will be hitting someone 100% of the time. This is a great way to earn kills.
- Conversely learn how to animation cancel. You don't need to be a 5 moves in 2 seconds person but even learning to block cancel an attack can save you in cases where you're all of a sudden casting a Soul Assault and notice you have 17% health.
- Keep your head on a swivel.
- Also, and most important, if it looks like a trap, it is a trap. And if it doesn't look like a trap, it's definitely a trap.

How did I forget immovable potions!? I'm pretty sure most of my characters I PvP with are addicted to them. They can get a bit spendy, but you can buy a cheaper, non-crafted version for AP from siege vendors.

I will also add that on top of learning to animation cancel, learn which skills can be block casted. That's right, some skills can be cast while blocking. Block casting makes my magic Templar incredibly hard to gank even in mostly light armor.

Also, thanks for the kind words @THEDKEXPERIENCE.

GrimMauKin

Well currently I still can't get through the Spiral Shadows on nVMA! (I've come pretty close but no cigar). Oh well.

Kode

Hi Grim,

On the pvp front my best advice is to find a very vanilla build from a reputable player and start there. I say vanilla because I encourage you to stay away from gimmick, niche and exploit builds for now. Not everyone should create their own builds, it takes some knowledge of the mechanics and even if it interests you, I still suggest playing a handful of builds that aren't your own to learn the mechanics that are working for others.

I would also suggest going with something a little on the defensive side at first. While this might mean you can't win certain fights against strong builds or veteran players, it will mean you survive long enough to start learning. It will also give you an opportunity to beat down some of the less skilled burst players who can't fight after their initial gank.

As far as dungeons go, once again, find a vanilla build and start with non-vet, then move to the easiest vet dungeons, and go from their. Improve your build and your skills as you go and in no time at all you will be looking good. As for elite players, they have all been where you are. Some of them have bad attitudes, don't let it get to you. Join groups, explain that you don't know the dungeon. If they don't want you, keep your head up and find another group. If you don't have an active PvE guild, try to find one. That is probably the best place to begin.

One more thing on pvp... and some folks already covered this. As I said, find a reputable build (something up to date) and use it to the letter. When it calls for impenetrable, use impenetrable, don't assume you know better until you do. It is a critical mechanic that you need in PvP.
Also, read what Danksta said about CC, it is critical to good pvp.