Guys, stop comparing shield vs. staff blocking capabilities.

DorianDragonRaze

Yes, it's about the ice staff. We may not like some balance changes and annoying situations in group dungeons that could be caused by the ice staff changes, but if you say "staves can't block as good as shields" - well, it's not an argument, because (hey!) it's a magical world, and you can consider it as a block that uses ice magic energy to create mitigating invisible formation in the air.
It is not less believable than a sorcerer using stamina to cast spells.
I mean, really.

Majic

Never!

You can take my shield vs staff blocking capability comparisons when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.

Tabbycat

I do believe that Harry Dresden (book series) blocked some nasty spells with an enchanted bracelet of all things. He also used a staff but I think he was casting spells with it and not blocking things. (Forzare!) Anywho... I'm not beyond believing that a staff could block as well as a shield in a magical universe.

Rohamad_Ali

Mx13

They should change the ice staff blocking animation to something like this:

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali wins today's internet.

Myyth

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali wins today's internet.

Yes they next have to include a passive block ability with bracers! Magic bracelets!

scorpiodog

DorianDragonRaze wrote: »

Yes, it's about the ice staff. We may not like some balance changes and annoying situations in group dungeons that could be caused by the ice staff changes, but if you say "staves can't block as good as shields" - well, it's not an argument, because (hey!) it's a magical world, and you can consider it as a block that uses ice magic energy to create mitigating invisible formation in the air.
It is not less believable than a sorcerer using stamina to cast spells.
I mean, really.

I play Fantasy games with Magic because I want them to be realistic and adhere to the laws of physics, lol.

paulsimonps

I never even considered the thematic view of the comparison, obviously magic spells and staffs can block stuff in all manner of ways.. The game play mechanics however is more interesting to compare. And I think its funny how people are thinking that prema block is now a thing cause of the minor magickasteal+frost staff tanking. Perma blocking is a thing right now with sword and board tanking. Lowest possible block cost is 88 for S&B and constitution gives 930 stamina and magicka with 5 heavy and even more with 7. 930 every 4s is 8 half seconds and block can only drain resources every 0.5s at most. So 930/8=116 and 116>88 aka you will gain resources from blocking with lowest cost, even more so if you go Black Rose which will come in sturdy and jewelry next update. So perma blocking. Lowest possible cost for FS is 207 and you can get 400mag/s with magickasteal which is 200/0.5s so even just a 1 heavy will give enough constitution.

But I also think taunting with Frost staff is gonna be a PitA cause you would have to use the undaunted taunt cause heavy attack taunting is a joke, takes to damn long. And if you use the magicka morhp of the taunt it will drain your magicka too much and if you do stamina then well... Going Max magicka+stamina recovery.... I don't see it. Sure the opposite is true for current Tanking, Max Stamina+magicka recovery, but that is cause there are tons of magicka ways of getting back stamina, but not wise verse, only thing there is is the Sorcs Dark Deal which drops block.

You can also block more damage with the Sword and Board, a Shield, no matter the trait will give more resistance than a staff could, plus the Absorb Magic skill of course. Now sure the Sword and Board passives and the Frost Staff Passive has the same amount of mitigation but everything else will give Sword and Board the edge.

There is of course its use in PvP as a way to block in a different manner than before, and I can see that to an extent, Desert Rose+Black Rose Max Magicka Heavy Armor PvPers might be really hard to kill and deliver damage. So will be fun to see that. But for PvE, I still say MEH.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

paulsimonps wrote: »

I never even considered the thematic view of the comparison, obviously magic spells and staffs can block stuff in all manner of ways.. The game play mechanics however is more interesting to compare. And I think its funny how people are thinking that prema block is now a thing cause of the minor magickasteal+frost staff tanking. Perma blocking is a thing right now with sword and board tanking. Lowest possible block cost is 88 for S&B and constitution gives 930 stamina and magicka with 5 heavy and even more with 7. 930 every 4s is 8 half seconds and block can only drain resources every 0.5s at most. So 930/8=116 and 116>88 aka you will gain resources from blocking with lowest cost, even more so if you go Black Rose which will come in sturdy and jewelry next update. So perma blocking. Lowest possible cost for FS is 207 and you can get 400mag/s with magickasteal which is 200/0.5s so even just a 1 heavy will give enough constitution.

But I also think taunting with Frost staff is gonna be a PitA cause you would have to use the undaunted taunt cause heavy attack taunting is a joke, takes to damn long. And if you use the magicka morhp of the taunt it will drain your magicka too much and if you do stamina then well... Going Max magicka+stamina recovery.... I don't see it. Sure the opposite is true for current Tanking, Max Stamina+magicka recovery, but that is cause there are tons of magicka ways of getting back stamina, but not wise verse, only thing there is is the Sorcs Dark Deal which drops block.

You can also block more damage with the Sword and Board, a Shield, no matter the trait will give more resistance than a staff could, plus the Absorb Magic skill of course. Now sure the Sword and Board passives and the Frost Staff Passive has the same amount of mitigation but everything else will give Sword and Board the edge.

There is of course its use in PvP as a way to block in a different manner than before, and I can see that to an extent, Desert Rose+Black Rose Max Magicka Heavy Armor PvPers might be really hard to kill and deliver damage. So will be fun to see that. But for PvE, I still say MEH.

Paul, it gets me all warm and fuzzy when you talk dirty with math.

paulsimonps

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I never even considered the thematic view of the comparison, obviously magic spells and staffs can block stuff in all manner of ways.. The game play mechanics however is more interesting to compare. And I think its funny how people are thinking that prema block is now a thing cause of the minor magickasteal+frost staff tanking. Perma blocking is a thing right now with sword and board tanking. Lowest possible block cost is 88 for S&B and constitution gives 930 stamina and magicka with 5 heavy and even more with 7. 930 every 4s is 8 half seconds and block can only drain resources every 0.5s at most. So 930/8=116 and 116>88 aka you will gain resources from blocking with lowest cost, even more so if you go Black Rose which will come in sturdy and jewelry next update. So perma blocking. Lowest possible cost for FS is 207 and you can get 400mag/s with magickasteal which is 200/0.5s so even just a 1 heavy will give enough constitution.

But I also think taunting with Frost staff is gonna be a PitA cause you would have to use the undaunted taunt cause heavy attack taunting is a joke, takes to damn long. And if you use the magicka morhp of the taunt it will drain your magicka too much and if you do stamina then well... Going Max magicka+stamina recovery.... I don't see it. Sure the opposite is true for current Tanking, Max Stamina+magicka recovery, but that is cause there are tons of magicka ways of getting back stamina, but not wise verse, only thing there is is the Sorcs Dark Deal which drops block.

You can also block more damage with the Sword and Board, a Shield, no matter the trait will give more resistance than a staff could, plus the Absorb Magic skill of course. Now sure the Sword and Board passives and the Frost Staff Passive has the same amount of mitigation but everything else will give Sword and Board the edge.

There is of course its use in PvP as a way to block in a different manner than before, and I can see that to an extent, Desert Rose+Black Rose Max Magicka Heavy Armor PvPers might be really hard to kill and deliver damage. So will be fun to see that. But for PvE, I still say MEH.

Paul, it gets me all warm and fuzzy when you talk dirty with math.

Anything for you Bear

bebynnag

paulsimonps wrote: »

I never even considered the thematic view of the comparison, obviously magic spells and staffs can block stuff in all manner of ways.. The game play mechanics however is more interesting to compare. And I think its funny how people are thinking that prema block is now a thing cause of the minor magickasteal+frost staff tanking. Perma blocking is a thing right now with sword and board tanking. Lowest possible block cost is 88 for S&B and constitution gives 930 stamina and magicka with 5 heavy and even more with 7. 930 every 4s is 8 half seconds and block can only drain resources every 0.5s at most. So 930/8=116 and 116>88 aka you will gain resources from blocking with lowest cost, even more so if you go Black Rose which will come in sturdy and jewelry next update. So perma blocking. Lowest possible cost for FS is 207 and you can get 400mag/s with magickasteal which is 200/0.5s so even just a 1 heavy will give enough constitution.

But I also think taunting with Frost staff is gonna be a PitA cause you would have to use the undaunted taunt cause heavy attack taunting is a joke, takes to damn long. And if you use the magicka morhp of the taunt it will drain your magicka too much and if you do stamina then well... Going Max magicka+stamina recovery.... I don't see it. Sure the opposite is true for current Tanking, Max Stamina+magicka recovery, but that is cause there are tons of magicka ways of getting back stamina, but not wise verse, only thing there is is the Sorcs Dark Deal which drops block.

You can also block more damage with the Sword and Board, a Shield, no matter the trait will give more resistance than a staff could, plus the Absorb Magic skill of course. Now sure the Sword and Board passives and the Frost Staff Passive has the same amount of mitigation but everything else will give Sword and Board the edge.

There is of course its use in PvP as a way to block in a different manner than before, and I can see that to an extent, Desert Rose+Black Rose Max Magicka Heavy Armor PvPers might be really hard to kill and deliver damage. So will be fun to see that. But for PvE, I still say MEH.

YES! ^this^

it is not the thought of blocking with an ice staf that has me ROFLing its mainly the taunt on the heavy attack and the loss of a slot along side all the points raise above!

stevepdodson_ESO888

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

you do know she is the voice of Azura in TES series

NightRyder36

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

you do know she is the voice of Azura in TES series

Mind

Blown

1mirg

NightRyder36 wrote: »

Mind

Blown

You'd be surprised how many big time actors voice acted for this game.

timidobserver

I would like to see them make it make more sense graphically though. Maybe some kind of ice barrier or something when you block with a ice staff.

Tryxus

I like the changes, gonna be a lot of fun

Except the Taunt on the Heavy Attack, that one has to be replaced with something useful for a defensive playstyle

Hand_Bacon

Its just silly.

https://youtu.be/GS_eZR68nGo

They could have at least made a melee staff line instead or maybe...I don't know, added some content.

acw37162

Tabbycat wrote: »

I do believe that Harry Dresden (book series) blocked some nasty spells with an enchanted bracelet of all things. He also used a staff but I think he was casting spells with it and not blocking things. (Forzare!) Anywho... I'm not beyond believing that a staff could block as well as a shield in a magical universe.

He also had an invisible woobie

DoccEff

It would be cool if the staff could get a new blocking animation then. Like not just holding it in two hands, but forming some ice-shield, standing there in you-shall-not-pass-position, or jedi-blocking incoming projectiles.

Still though, there will be no way to tank with only an icestaff, it's way too inferiour to S'n'B.

Rohamad_Ali

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

you do know she is the voice of Azura in TES series

Yes , she's also the owner of Zennimax's Wife .

STEVIL

DorianDragonRaze wrote: »

Yes, it's about the ice staff. We may not like some balance changes and annoying situations in group dungeons that could be caused by the ice staff changes, but if you say "staves can't block as good as shields" - well, it's not an argument, because (hey!) it's a magical world, and you can consider it as a block that uses ice magic energy to create mitigating invisible formation in the air.
It is not less believable than a sorcerer using stamina to cast spells.
I mean, really.

What are the real world specs on wooden and metal shields blocking vs "magic damage" or disease?

Now, a very interesting change would be to have ice staves block an additional 10% vs magic/elem damage and have physical shields block an additional 10% vs physical/poison/disease. to give them a little more differential.