[PvP Group Guide] How to lead a small raid: the basics, with video

Thraben · January 2017

Hi!

As I am interested in improving PvP without using OP builds and class combinations (at the moment: stacking vampire templars with destro ulti), I have decided to share some basics with people who consider leading a group themself.

1. Basic skills:
Every raid must have a group sprint buff and an Alliance purge skill. Both are the bare minimum EVERY group must have. Everything else, even real healers, is not required. (Though of course it doesn´t hurt) Healing skills, however, ARE required, even if some players consider themself above using e.g. Vigor.

2. Basic tactics
In Cyrodiil there are 3 basic small raid tactics on open field (ambush and real sieges should be treated separately):

a) If you have an elite group of vampire magicka players who spam AoE damage and heals, the general tactic is to run from one cover to the next, like in a shooter, killing everything in your path without getting slowed or cornered.

b) If you just let your comrades fight as they wish (without skill and class restrictions), it is better to use the so called Oblique Order. This simply means that you commit your strongest forces (your raid) fully on one flank to make a breakthrough, while the weak wing (randoms) keep the enemy busy. This leads to the encirclement and destruction of zergs far greater than yours, even, if they ARE using OP builds. Be careful, however: NOTHING may outflank you, or you are dead and cut off. If you can, use natural and non-natural borders both to trap the enemy and to avoid being ouflanked yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ekdr1Esa8

c) direct flank attack: If the enemy is forming a thin, long line (like in sieges), it is better to use the Oblique Order without an encirclement: As the video demonstrates, you can roll up the flank against heavy odds, because you always have a so called local superiority of forces: Only a small part of the enemy zerg can fire upon you, but your whole group can concentrate fire on the small part of the enemy line which is directed at you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hceYB5jjXuQ

Dillpat · January 2017

nice work, this will help a lot of people out there and i certainly picked up a few things i can use :P

Thraben · January 2017

PART 2: defeating a Proxi group

The greatest threat for a beginner´s group in Cyrodiil are hands down the aforementioned (under point a) Proxy groups (I avoid the word "zerg" because a zerg is a huge mass of unorganized players, and they are quite the opposite) or "Bomb groups". They typically consist of magicka vampires and will sychronize Proximity Detonation, Sap Essence, and Destro Ulti.

If you don´t know how they fight you will get farmed and farmed again, like this (this one is certainly one of the best groups I know):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQcTTe6uXR8

So here is how to fight bomb groups:

1) Identify them. Often, the fps rate goes down when they are near; also, they run in a VERY disciplined manner; also, they have a yellow (alliance purge) and blue glowing around them. Also, they are incredibly FAST.

2) Consider leaving them alone: they typically farm AP without any intention to change the campaign´s balance of power: Does it really hurt you to allow them to farm? Maybe they are even doing you a favor by closing choke points in Bleakers, Nikel, or Sejanus/ Alessia bridge, or they are even useful when you are besieged by another faction?

3) Don´t fight them from the front (their front dps is larger than yours). Don´t fight them on tight spaces (their AoE is also greater then yours)

4) Surprise them and bomb them yourself - my group typically disguises itself as an unorganized and undisciplined part of a zerg so Bomb groups won´t flee from us when they see us.

5) Since they errect a "15m death and Lag zone" round them, FORBID anyone the melee who can´t stand it.

6) Don´t try to zerg them. They actually get stronger the more enemy players are around them. In the Video you can see how I command the inexperienced players to wait outside of the actual action, because they would have been a burden. The second fight itself is decided by actually very few players. (i think 4 of us and 2 randoms)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSHuAW1WZ2Y

7) DO NOT use Dots, dear archers.

8) Synchronize not only your Ultis, but also your Crowd Control so they don´t get easy immunity.

9) Counterattack is your friend. Split up in a half-circular formation when they attack, and withdraw when they try to bomb you, and then kill them when they are withdrawing themself.

10) Look for camps. Those groups have ALWAYS a camp nearby.. so burn it in advance.

And, of course, don´t underestimate them. Everyone in their group is typically a far more specialized and experienced PvP player than you have. There is no shame in not fighting them.

Lashiing · January 2017

yes thank you
please engage all bomb groups and chase when they retreat

Thraben · May 2017

Part 3: Tower Parties

One of the base tactics of AP farming tryharders is to lure noobs into tight spaces, preferably a ressource tower or a gate/ bridge. Here is how to cope with them.

There are three types of Tower Parties:

1) first level
2) middle level
3) roof level.

First and roof level are the prefered ground for proxy groups while the medium level favors stamina groups (typically cheesy stamsorcs). Level 1 and 3 therefore call for the same tactics.

1)+3)
a) The enemy is concentrated on tight spaces, let 3 people bombard them with a coordinated ballistae (case 1) or (cold) stone trebuché strike.

b) Make sure that there at least 2 people in your group using Purge, and get behind the ballistae. When charging in, concentrate on one side, and drop both a negate and a siege shield. The first Templar heal ulti should come early, because your first Negate will be overwritten by the enemy´s. The stairs are the prefered healing Templar´s position.

c) No squishy class must be allowed to join the rush, as his death will kill you all through the enemy´s Vicious Death Set. Squishys belong at the siege engines.

d) As you will be negated at some point, make sure you use "stored" damage skills like Eye of the Storm, Permafrost, and proximity Detonation, that go off even in the case of a Negate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjHTWpb1Joc

e) When very good Proxy groups prepare a ground floor Tower Party, it is a double trap: They will either rush you in the counter attack, or jump from the tower to attack you from behind. Take preparations.

2) Stamina Vampires running in circles to prevent line-of-sight are a nuissance not worth dealing with. If you must, attack them from both sides, with the true DDs coming from behind while more sturdy mates attack them first and face their usual Dawnbreaker.

maddiniiLuna · June 2017

This is more Tipps and less Guide. No offence, but from the Title i would have expected something like telling the people how to actually form a group and make them follow your command. I expected to read things like "Spam the crap out of the group chat so everyone can see it", which usually works perfectly fine for me.

crusnik91 · June 2017

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

This is more Tipps and less Guide. No offence, but from the Title i would have expected something like telling the people how to actually form a group and make them follow your command. I expected to read things like "Spam the crap out of the group chat so everyone can see it", which usually works perfectly fine for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-p8wffVy60
Just gonna leave this here. Might help you out!

Thraben · June 2017

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

This is more Tipps and less Guide. No offence, but from the Title i would have expected something like telling the people how to actually form a group and make them follow your command. I expected to read things like "Spam the crap out of the group chat so everyone can see it", which usually works perfectly fine for me.

Well, it is about a small RAID. A raid has per definition neither the problems nor the limits of a PUG. PUGs typically are even unable to fullfill the very first conditions described above: reliable defensive manoevre, and purge.

You simply cannot expect from a PUG to do anything more than zerging, meatshielding, and taking keeps while suffering terrible losses.

That being said, one answer to your question is following:

1) You can´t rely on PUG players so you must play the support role yourself. I strongly suggest a MagSorc who personally purges and heals.
(alternatively, you can build a pug zerg around your voice chat based core troop of friends who share the support roles like purging, speed buff, and healing)

2) Make clear to everyone that there will be no healing for those not close to the crown. Visualize it with the skill "healing springs".

3) Most importantly, never forget what the PUG players want: AP and nice victories. The more AP you earn the more kills your group scores, the more respect and loyality can you expect. So don´t start your evening with 4 useless attempts to take a keep. Start it with AP and easy kills.

4) Ruthlessly kick anyone from the group who ignores you warning not to zerg elsewhere while you fight at another location

5) Identify organized groups and avoid the strong ones. There is nothing more demoralizing than to die multiple times against a handful well organized players. PICK YOUR FIGHTS!