An Open Letter to ZOS: Just Remove Crit From Pve and Pvp

Hans4n6

fred4 wrote: »

Bisenberger96 wrote: »

Lastly, I've completed several dolmens, done a speed run and no death of fungal grotto 1, and almost have finished Cadwell's Silver with a nightblade build that has nothing specced into crit chance or damage.

Hahahahahahahahaha! You may have a point, but when it comes to your reasoning, OH MY GOD! That is low-end content!!! Dolmens and Cadwell's Silver are ridiculously low-end and even Fungal Grotto 1 is. I hope you at least meant you soloed Fungal 1 Veteran mode with no death, but even that is no big achievement in the grand scheme that is ESO. You are a relative newcomer, and that's fine, but you just don't know what you're talking about.

I haven't noticed any issues performance-wise

Well, yeah, no surprise. You're not playing the high-end content. You're not doing the veteran trials nor veteran arenas, not even the DLC veteran dungeons, by your examples.

P.S. If you guys have anything to ask pertaining to end game pve , hmu.

Errr, nope.

Bisen is not only a great player but has been completing vmol on the regular for many many months. Not to mention I'm pretty positive he is one of few players with a vmol hm clear.

fred4

Hans4n6 wrote: »

Bisen is not only a great player but has been completing vmol on the regular for many many months. Not to mention I'm pretty positive he is one of few players with a vmol hm clear.

But, if that is true, then he is trolling by mentioning dolmens and Cadwell's Silver. Actually the original post must just be a joke and Bisen is laughing at all of us who responded earnestly.

Dawnblade

Crit isn't a problem by itself - though the levels of crit obtainable, and the ability to stack crits with set procs and abilities, especially by CP capped characters, may be a problem.

The solution then isn't to remove crit altogether, it would be to make changes that make it more difficult to reach higher levels of crit, place soft / hard caps on crit, increase diminishing returns on crit, and / or force much harder trade offs in reaching high levels of crit.

idk

fred4 wrote: »

Hans4n6 wrote: »

Bisen is not only a great player but has been completing vmol on the regular for many many months. Not to mention I'm pretty positive he is one of few players with a vmol hm clear.

But, if that is true, then he is trolling by mentioning dolmens and Cadwell's Silver. Actually the original post must just be a joke and Bisen is laughing at all of us who responded earnestly.

Or Bisen is modest. But the Hans dude speaks the truth about Bisen.

Viscous119

I'm new to the game myself, but Iv'e been playing MMOs for awhile and understand the value of crit. There is no way, as a new player in ESO, I would ever suggest to remove such an important fight mechanic. That would be plain ignorance to even imply such a thing. Only after one reaches lvl 50 and get CPs high enough can you really know how crit works in the BIG picture. This has to be a troll thread, or the dumbest thing I've heard in the new year lol. Thanks for the comedy

NewBlacksmurf

Heck NO.

The only issue is that the devs continue to try and keep PvE and PvP under the same skill effects.

Change that and all is resolved and in terms of sets, the bonus would adjust while in a campaign.

its really that simple

Akimbro

Bisenberger96 wrote: »

So I've been thinking, if the removal of critting proc sets is such a huge problem in the dev's eyes, but players don't think it will help, why not just scrap crit altogether since it seems to be such a big issue? Not only would this remove burst from pvp, it would also help players understand that max spell/weapon damage and max resources are just as important to a build as crit is. For example, having more max resources allows you to use more skills, so sustain isn't that big of an issue. Lastly, I've completed several dolmens, done a speed run and no death of fungal grotto 1, and almost have finished Cadwell's Silver with a nightblade build that has nothing specced into crit chance or damage. I haven't noticed any issues performance-wise, and I think the devs would be wise to evolve their plan to not allow proc sets to crit into simply removing crit from the game. Let me know what you guys think!

P.S. If you guys have anything to ask pertaining to end game pve , hmu.

Yes please just remove crit from the game. It will make theorycrafting much easier and we can just stack our stats into a max stat / damage. More resources means healers can run what they want to, without having to use ele drain / siphon / orbs and resource management skills. Healers can then even run dps skills instead. 3k healer dps > crit chance in the game. Don't need a math genius to prove that.

BlazingDynamo

Just remove crit? Lol this is an mmo removing crit from a game this scale would badly damage it. If anything Zos needs to be adding not removing.

Akimbro

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Just remove crit? Lol this is an mmo removing crit from a game this scale would badly damage it. If anything Zos needs to be adding not removing.

Do you even PVP? Removing crit would reduce the burst and finally fix the game. It's all about balance.

dday3six

Akimbro wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Just remove crit? Lol this is an mmo removing crit from a game this scale would badly damage it. If anything Zos needs to be adding not removing.

Do you even PVP? Removing crit would reduce the burst and finally fix the game. It's all about balance.

Or ZOS could remove PVP which seems like a lot less work than undoing and reworking everything centered around crit.

Frankly learn to math. Burst could still tear through players with or without crit. Most players run impen in PVP anyhow, and those who don't crit overkills them.

DHale

Why exactly would we do this nothing wrong with it at all? Good players adapt.

waitwhat

I say this as a 14k health khajiit stamblade with ~80% crit chance on both bars wielding bow/bow: Take crit away and all I'll have left is proc sets or questing in Auridon.

Removing crit will not solve any issues--broadly defined--with burst damage in PvP. Absent proc sets, significant crit burst damage requires a decent amount of thought, investment, and finesse in Cyrodiil. You have one of two mundus to choose from (thief or shadow), both your five-piece sets have to provide weapon crit bonuses at the 2nd and 4th piece threshold, you need to attach completely from stealth (eye indicator not open at all), you have to choose the Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak, and you have to sacrifice survivability with seven--not five--pieces of medium armor.

By contrast, removing crit entirely will only encourage more proc set stacking, as the removal of the crit/impen mechanic will force crit builds into max base damage and penetration. If I can't get snipe to hit you for 21k from stealth, then I'm really going to need Vicecanon of Venom/Valkyn Skoria/Sheer Venom/Viper's to make up for the loss (since Viper's procs off Poison Injection now lol. Tru fax.).

The interplay of crit and impen is keeping a healthy dose of skill-based gameplay alive in Cyrodiil, and it forces builds based on crit to make some tough choices about survivability and situational flexibility in Cyrodiil.

This thread may be a joke, but the point it makes about that proc set crit "nerf" isn't. Sucks for the PvE players though. At least they can take consolation in the fact that the removal of proc crit isn't what any PvP'ers wanted.

Acrolas

The best solution is probably to create individual Attributes and Champions Points for PVE and PVP.

The Attributes and CP for PVP would have soft caps. PVP CP would add a 10% bonus to a stat with 100 points invested instead of 25%. Attributes would have a few more categories to add points to.

The Attributes and CP for PVE would not have caps. Then you can have a PVE setup built around a specific role, but PVP would have a more balanced baseline. Because you're a soldier in PVP. Not a superstar.

DaveMoeDee

fred4 wrote: »

Have I fallen for a troll?

On a serious note I think ANY RNG is the enemy of skill, and that includes crit. However I don't design computer games. Maybe it would turn out rather boring if there wasn't some RNG to spice things up.

I'm not sure I agree. Randomness requires you to adjust to unsure outcomes. You have to prepare for non-deterministic outcomes. There is a lot of added skill in that. Just don't get carried away with the RNG, which might be the case with too many proc sets. It is definitely excessive if one-shot crits are a common thing.

fred4

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

On a serious note I think ANY RNG is the enemy of skill, and that includes crit. However I don't design computer games. Maybe it would turn out rather boring if there wasn't some RNG to spice things up.

I'm not sure I agree. Randomness requires you to adjust to unsure outcomes. You have to prepare for non-deterministic outcomes. There is a lot of added skill in that. Just don't get carried away with the RNG, which might be the case with too many proc sets. It is definitely excessive if one-shot crits are a common thing.

I was thinking of PvP when I wrote that. NPCs don't crit on you. If an attack critted when your aim is better, that would involve skill. But crits are random and this results in cases where, as Deltia in the video, you have taken all reasonable precautions, yet you get a randomly decided outcome. Neither very satisfying for the attacker, nor fair to the victim. It's the players that bring unpredictability to the game. Shouldn't that be enough?

theher0not

Only if khajiits should get a good replacement for Carnige.

Teridaxus

I guess having everyone running imp in pvp since always or how its even possible to reach +100% crit chance are totally not symptomes that crits in eso needs be looked at, even if op went too far by proposing to remove them.

jaye63

To OP:
So what you're saying is that you want the PvP battles to last for hours?