An Open Letter to ZOS: Just Remove Crit From Pve and Pvp

Bisenberger96

So I've been thinking, if the removal of critting proc sets is such a huge problem in the dev's eyes, but players don't think it will help, why not just scrap crit altogether since it seems to be such a big issue? Not only would this remove burst from pvp, it would also help players understand that max spell/weapon damage and max resources are just as important to a build as crit is. For example, having more max resources allows you to use more skills, so sustain isn't that big of an issue. Lastly, I've completed several dolmens, done a speed run and no death of fungal grotto 1, and almost have finished Cadwell's Silver with a nightblade build that has nothing specced into crit chance or damage. I haven't noticed any issues performance-wise, and I think the devs would be wise to evolve their plan to not allow proc sets to crit into simply removing crit from the game. Let me know what you guys think!

P.S. If you guys have anything to ask pertaining to end game pve , hmu.

ArchMikem

I wouldn't mind this. In fact It'd help me focus on different builds if I didn't have to worry about my Crit Chance since all of my characters pretty much rely on Critical Hits most of the time.. If my characters don't have a Crit Chance above 60% I start to freak out.

Riga_Mortis

Bisenberger96 wrote: »

So I've been thinking, if the removal of critting proc sets is such a huge problem in the dev's eyes, but players don't think it will help, why not just scrap crit altogether since it seems to be such a big issue? Not only would this remove burst from pvp, it would also help players understand that max spell/weapon damage and max resources are just as important to a build as crit is. For example, having more max resources allows you to use more skills, so sustain isn't that big of an issue. Lastly, I've completed several dolmens, done a speed run and no death of fungal grotto 1, and almost have finished Cadwell's Silver with a nightblade build that has nothing specced into crit chance or damage. I haven't noticed any issues performance-wise, and I think the devs would be wise to evolve their plan to not allow proc sets to crit into simply removing crit from the game. Let me know what you guys think!

P.S. If you guys have anything to ask pertaining to end game pve , hmu.

Really hope this is a joke thread OP.

Wollust

That would be a b*tch to balance. Crit is an essential part of the game.

ArchMikem

Wollust wrote: »

That would be a b*tch to balance. Crit is an essential part of the game.

To be fair though, why do you think that is? Because it's the only way to actually do good damage. Take Critical Hits away and people wouldn't know what to do, it'd actually be funny.

Flak

No.

DPShiro

This has to be a troll/joke thread.

Bisenberger96

Flak wrote: »

No.

I respect that you have an opinion, but can you please state why you think this?

Flaminir

Crit is fundamentally built into the core of SO many game systems... Armour, weapons, alchemy, champion system, world event buffs, skill mechanics, racial passives, etc etc etc...

Regardless of any opinions on Crit, its built so deeply into the game removing it would be near impossible.

As such its here to stay so there's very little point in debating it tbh.

derpmander

They would have to entirely scrap sets like Night Mother's Gaze which 100% relies on crit to even function in general.

IcyDeadPeople

And then who will shed a tear for all those people with the word "crit" in their character names?

KleanZlate

Wait a moment! Crit is mainly a problem in PvP, right? Why don't we just scrap PvP altogether then?! Problem gone!!

Kuroinu

Removing critical hits altogether would cause other problems with certain Skills and Item Set bonuses. Perhaps a better solution to what you want would be to reduce the amount of bonus damage a critical hit deals, instead of removing it entirely.

Master_Fluff

No thanks. I'm too impressed and awestruck by my bowkittys 85% crit to want it removed. My life wouldn't be complete without it.

WuffyCerulei

Removing crit altogether would create a serious issue, as many skills and passives revolve around crit, as well as various sets and a crucial item trait. Bosses in dungeons and trials would also take much longer to kill and would need absolute serious reworking.

ku5h

KleanZlate wrote: »

Wait a moment! Crit is mainly a problem in PvP, right? Why don't we just scrap PvP altogether then?! Problem gone!!

No, crit is not a problem in PvP. Proc set stacking is problem, but the way ZoS went about solving that problem with removing crit from them, now makes ppl think crits are the problem. Crits are not the problem and they will never be removed, ffs crit is fundamental stat of any RPG game.

nordsavage

The crit is a myth.

Dracindo

Remove Crit? Sure, do you want to remove the Nightblade class as well?

Bryanonymous

Bisenberger96 wrote: »

So I've been thinking, if the removal of critting proc sets is such a huge problem in the dev's eyes, but players don't think it will help, why not just scrap crit altogether since it seems to be such a big issue? Not only would this remove burst from pvp, it would also help players understand that max spell/weapon damage and max resources are just as important to a build as crit is. For example, having more max resources allows you to use more skills, so sustain isn't that big of an issue. Lastly, I've completed several dolmens, done a speed run and no death of fungal grotto 1, and almost have finished Cadwell's Silver with a nightblade build that has nothing specced into crit chance or damage. I haven't noticed any issues performance-wise, and I think the devs would be wise to evolve their plan to not allow proc sets to crit into simply removing crit from the game. Let me know what you guys think!

P.S. If you guys have anything to ask pertaining to end game pve , hmu.

People complaining about procs might as well recognize that critical is random chance as well and one of the core mechanics of the game. Might as well just remove RNG completely so all the number crunchers out there can just send their level 100 Charizards out to hit with exactly the amount that they calculated in advance... And after you remove RNG, add in 95 more ability slots to the ability bar, in game macros, UI timers (which won't even matter)... Hell, make the character control themselves as well, while we just sit back and watch. The longer you watch, the more you win.

Ah, sarcasm... it's how to insult people without making it too obvious that you are insulting them. Though to be fair, I use a new add on called Action Duration Reminder, and wow does it make magic sorc aoe so much easier to manage. My main point though is that ESO is designed to be a game of cards. You build your deck, you shuffle up and play. Some people have gained better cards in their deck through character progression, however there is no such thing as absolute fair skill in a game where one player can have better stats than another. There is only an element of randomness that you would see from a card game that might give a lower hand a chance to come out ahead, as well as the skill to play your cards correctly no matter what you are dealt.

You want a game of fair skill? Play something where you can't obtain better stats than your opponent. This game is built around RNG. Think of the players who win the Texas Hold'em championships a lot. All of them will tell you that no matter how well you play your cards, sometimes you just get beat. That's the way cards work. This is not a game of fair fights, so just drop that idea and accept it for what it is.... A game of cards. Build your deck, shuffle up and deal.

JR_Returns

ArchMikem wrote: »

If my characters don't have a Crit Chance above 60% I start to freak out.

I build for damage and my crit is about 25%. I'm happy with my builds and they do good damage.
So @ArchMikem have to different play styles. That's fine as long as we are happy.

You need to find out how to build a character that you are happy with and you do that by exploring all the options that are available to you.

This thread and like lots of others like it in the forums is about limiting they way people can play the game. Or to be more precise players trying to win by limiting their opponents options/abilities.

Izaki

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Nerf "open letters".

You didn't buy add space in a local newspaper. You just made a forum post.

Derra

I don´t think critical hits should be taken away entirely - especially with crit dependant mechanics already in the game.

I do think the critdmg modifier in eso is too high making critical hits too important (and defence against them aswell).

SickDuck

Lets close this open letter and never open again.

fred4

Bisenberger96 wrote: »

Lastly, I've completed several dolmens, done a speed run and no death of fungal grotto 1, and almost have finished Cadwell's Silver with a nightblade build that has nothing specced into crit chance or damage.

Hahahahahahahahaha! You may have a point, but when it comes to your reasoning, OH MY GOD! That is low-end content!!! Dolmens and Cadwell's Silver are ridiculously low-end and even Fungal Grotto 1 is. I hope you at least meant you soloed Fungal 1 Veteran mode with no death, but even that is no big achievement in the grand scheme that is ESO. You are a relative newcomer, and that's fine, but you just don't know what you're talking about.

I haven't noticed any issues performance-wise

Well, yeah, no surprise. You're not playing the high-end content. You're not doing the veteran trials nor veteran arenas, not even the DLC veteran dungeons, by your examples.

P.S. If you guys have anything to ask pertaining to end game pve , hmu.

Errr, nope.

Bam_Bam

ArchMikem wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

That would be a b*tch to balance. Crit is an essential part of the game.

To be fair though, why do you think that is? Because it's the only way to actually do good damage. Take Critical Hits away and people wouldn't know what to do, it'd actually be funny.

No> It would be ***...

fred4

Have I fallen for a troll?

On a serious note I think ANY RNG is the enemy of skill, and that includes crit. However I don't design computer games. Maybe it would turn out rather boring if there wasn't some RNG to spice things up.

VarilRau

fred4 wrote: »

Have I fallen for a troll?

On a serious note I personally think ANY RNG is the enemy of skill, and that includes crit. However I don't design computer games. Maybe it would turn out rather boring if there wasn't some RNG to spice things up.

Crits, or anything with a %-chance is not random. Percents are just advanced mathematics. Well, not really advanced, the longer the fight goes on the more you should approach the crit % with the amounts of crits. PVE endgame has long battles thanks to the bosses high health pools. Without crit it will just take longer to kill them.

PVP being broken mainly has nothing to do with the crit change, your wearing impen anyway so likely nothing will crit. The problem is when people have 3 sets that have a proc effect that hit for 13k by tooltip. Todays meta is to have those sets and rng to hit someone for 39k in a second.

Woeler

Open letter. 5 sentences.

Shadowasrial

I think this is a terrible idea. It would limit the diversity of builds. Crit has always been a thing in mmos especially with rogue classes. Also the game has ways to mitigate crit. If you weren't around before everyone ran impen in pvp you would have quit the game with how much harder us nightblades hit you from stealth. Crit damage is supposed to hit hard. And I have fought plenty of people who can survive a ganker. I'm a nightblade and more than half the people who try to gank me die. So if I'm not getting 1-3 shot then you have nothing to complain about. Every build has its weakness. The problem is everyone running the same builds so everyone has the same weakness. If people made their own builds instead of making carbon copies of cookie cutter builds then the game would be more diverse. Build to resist crit and you'll survive crit. Build to resist magic and you'll survive magic it's not rocket science

fred4

VarilRau wrote: »

Crits, or anything with a %-chance is not random.

I can assure you there is a random number generator, which determines when crits happen. Sometimes there are multiple crits in a row. Randomly. Sometimes the sorc implosion passive kicks in on top of that and, whoops, you're dead from 60% health. But of course I'm thinking of PvP. Over a long boss fight, I agree, it's just more damage.

Have a look at this old video, made before the current proliferation of proc sets. At 21:40 Sypher suddenly nukes Deltia due to a succession of crits. Listen to Deltia's reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7o1x5yPuos

your wearing impen anyway so likely nothing will crit.

This is incorrect. Impen does not prevent crits, it reduces the amount of extra damage from crits. Your standard crit modifier is 1.5, for an extra 50% damage. Impen can only mitigate that 50%, at which point it is capped. About 3300 of crit resistance is needed for this, but there are two problems:

(1) You're giving up other stats to get that much crit resistance and few people do that. 2000 crit resistance is more typical among PvPers.

(2) The most effective opponents I've faced in duels have had high crit. Some of them have a 2.0 crit modifier along with 70% crit chance, and it's devastating. Your 2k impen brings that down to maybe 1.7, so their crits still hit incredibly hard. This is a little under the radar, since there is a school of thought which says crit is mitigated and ineffective in PvP. It's simply not the case. Moreover, with proc sets, crit chance and damage is one of the few ways to make those more effective.

This is not to take away from your argument that coincident procs are a problem. They are. My point is only that crits are important in PvP and suffer, if perhaps on a less egregious scale, from the same issue, as so clearly illustrated by Sypher and Deltia's video.