Can PVE-ers get a shortcut too?

VampiricByNature · December 2016

What's unfortunate is that most intense pve'ers also hate grinding undaunted, skyshards, and lorebooks. I don't know why on earth pvp'ers think that's what we enjoy in pve. I like to trial in this game and that's pretty much it. (Dungeons are easy. I quest sometimes but you could do that naked if you wanted with 0 skill points.)

Both pvp and pve'ers have to grind to get the skills they want. Pvp players just get to level 2 of those lines [support/assault] doing something they were going to do anyway. The distinction is tiny. We all suffer the grind.

Vaoh · December 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

Why can't PvPers and PvErs get along?

Because....... reasons.

I play both equally. Since about a month ago my PvP time has died down a lot, but still I see both sides POVs.

I don't think "getting along" will ever really happen tbh. Cyrodiil has created a very toxic environment this patch, and PvE can get kinda toxic as well if you aren't BiS.

Just the way it is

Skinzz · December 2016

Qbiken wrote: »

xskinzcity wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

The simple fact of the matter is that we spend more time Grinding undaunted, lorebooks & skyshards than PVE players do grinding to alliance war level 7.

Yup. It took me only 2 hours to get vigor for one of my alts. 98k ap is not a grind at all but here i am trying to get undaunted 9 for days now.

How do you get 98k AP in 2 hours?? Please teach me. Took me 2 days to get to alliance war rank 5 (not a lot of time but in comparison to you)

Well i needed vigor on my stam sorc so i ran around solo. My main is a grand overlord so i would say i have experience in pvp lol. It was pretty easy playing in a pop locked campaign cause our defensive ticks were usually 5-10k plus you gain more ap from solo kills. I think it actually took me 2.5 hours but you get my point.

Orikai · December 2016

People are acting like ZOS is giving away gear to PvPers for free. You still have to get the AP, and then you have a 1 in 3 chance of the set you want, and God help you if you're looking for a particular armor piece.

Sure, AP for PvPers comes from doing what they like to do. But so does Lich or BSW or a lot of other good sets for PvEers who run dungeons and trials.

And like a lot of people have pointed out, they already nerfed the AP required for Alliance skills.

Long story short, I think it's fair.

Shader_Shibes · December 2016

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

Lol. Try doing vma on Stam nb/dk/Templar without vigor, then come back and say that. Didn't mention Stam sorc, as they can run without vigor ^^

leepalmer95 · December 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

@Sigtric Funny you say that because most alliance skills are used MORE in PVE than in PVP.

Also, gear is required for PVP and theres more than enough sets available at the vendors to choose from so why the double standard of involving gear from OUT of Cyrodiil? Your point makes no sense.

What kind of drugs are you on? Every single skill from the alliance war trees are used in pvp and I see them all the time. Tell me the last time you used a siege bubble in a trial? Or revealing flare? How about proxy? And how much traveling do you need to do in a dungeon that requires rapids more than in cyrodiil?

In cyrodiil I see constant war horns when defending or invading a keep. I see barriers to save players from oils and other aoes. In pvp we just just about every skill AND passives.

We use rapids for speed runs in trials (particularly in vHRC).

Orikai wrote: »

People are acting like ZOS is giving away gear to PvPers for free. You still have to get the AP, and then you have a 1 in 3 chance of the set you want, and God help you if you're looking for a particular armor piece.

Sure, AP for PvPers comes from doing what they like to do. But so does Lich or BSW or a lot of other good sets for PvEers who run dungeons and trials.

And like a lot of people have pointed out, they already nerfed the AP required for Alliance skills.

Long story short, I think it's fair.

i was doing the maths on these bags... they are such a bad use of AP.

In pve you go to certain bosses to get the piece you want? For example world or public dungeon bosses for weapons.
A 5k ap bag is has far worse odd's than killing a boss and is going to be gained far slower than just waiting for the 5min cooldown to .

You have 12 weps + shield. So 13 'weapons' with 3 different sets and 8 traits (can't get nirn) 9 for a shield.

12 x 8 + 9 = 297

You have 7 armor pieces with 8 traits each (can't get nirn) 3 sets.

7 x 8 x 3 = 168

3 jewellery pieces, 3 different kinds with 3 different sets

3 x 3 x 3 = 27

297 + 168 + 27 = 660

You have a 1 in 660 chance of getting your desired item in your desired trait.

At 5k ap a pop thats roughly 3.3m ap on average to get what item you want.

I think the maths is right anyway.

DannyLV702 · December 2016

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

Lol. Try doing vma on Stam nb/dk/Templar without vigor, then come back and say that. Didn't mention Stam sorc, as they can run without vigor ^^

That's ONE ability that can be acquired in a few hours.

DannyLV702 · December 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

@Sigtric Funny you say that because most alliance skills are used MORE in PVE than in PVP.

Also, gear is required for PVP and theres more than enough sets available at the vendors to choose from so why the double standard of involving gear from OUT of Cyrodiil? Your point makes no sense.

What kind of drugs are you on? Every single skill from the alliance war trees are used in pvp and I see them all the time. Tell me the last time you used a siege bubble in a trial? Or revealing flare? How about proxy? And how much traveling do you need to do in a dungeon that requires rapids more than in cyrodiil?

In cyrodiil I see constant war horns when defending or invading a keep. I see barriers to save players from oils and other aoes. In pvp we just just about every skill AND passives.

We use rapids for speed runs in trials (particularly in vHRC). Also rapids are extremely helpful during AA trial to avoid getting entrapped by the frost in the frozen room after you defeat a horde of Flame Atronachs.

You don't even have to pvp to get rapids....it's given to everyone just for queuing in to cyrodiil. And yes I'm aware it's used in trials. My point still stands against his tho

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · December 2016

Zedrian wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

7 of the 10 alliance war skills are widely used in PVE and some of these skills are necessary in end game trial content.

Not really you can run without them you just don't cause skill designed for mass Warfare helps trails greatly

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

I mainly pvp but I heavily disagree with you. Ask anyone who's tried doing vet maelstrom arena without vigor, especially on a NB or dk and they will confirm that it's aweful. In trial groups, aggressive warhorn is an ESSENTIAL skill to have up at all times because it increases your critical damage and the groups by like 30%. Since crit = win in pve, it is VERY important. Barrier I'm not too sure if it's necessarily NEEDED, but probably more of a fluff skill to get past heavy AOE fights, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You can use the the restro ult for this now you don't get the bonus to your pool size but to say you can't play without it is weak.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

Vigor only stamina based heal though. Only unlockable in Cyrodiil though.

So true if you don't know how to play stamina. Rally + Blood Craz + Blood Thirst are all good heals great if used in that order.

With all of this the set is often a head piece which you can get in EVERY vet run in the time it takes you to get the 200k to buy the monster head you could have farmed the boss for the piece.

FriedEggSandwich · December 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

PVE gets a shortcut by not having to play the equivalent of discount Castle Risk for 30 days.

I mean, PVP is exactly like Risk. Whoever gets Australia wins.

Australia being Alessia?

reiverx · December 2016

If you're after a specific piece of monster gear, The Golden in Cyrodiil is the last place you want to go. You could be waiting a few years.

Enslaved · December 2016

If by shortcut OP means hair cut short, I am sure PvE players could get it. It does not violate TOS, only looks.

praxis · December 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

PVE gets a shortcut by not having to play the equivalent of discount Castle Risk for 30 days.

I mean, PVP is exactly like Risk. Whoever gets Australia wins.

Australia being Alessia?

I think you mean Alessia Bridge, clearly the key focal point of the whole Cyrodiil campaign.

But really, the NA players can fight all day but in the end half the score comes from our friends who come in and cap the map while we sleep.

Shader_Shibes · December 2016

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

Lol. Try doing vma on Stam nb/dk/Templar without vigor, then come back and say that. Didn't mention Stam sorc, as they can run without vigor ^^

That's ONE ability that can be acquired in a few hours.

So? He said Alliance war skills are not required for pve, he's wrong. Also caltrops.

mvffins · December 2016

Omg stop these stupid PvE vs PvP posts. I'd personally rather more items only available in PvP and more only available in PvE. Why don't we just make skills and skillpoints purchasable in the cash shop while we are at it?

ManDraKE · December 2016

With the amount of monster mask/helms available, i will take me probably 2 years to get all i want from the golden vendor, so i'm forced to farm dungeons a lot. And don't even get me started with the vMA farming (i do 6 runs per week) and the overland gear farm.

PvP players do WAY more PvE content than PvE players do PvP. Get your *** straight before posting things like that, PVE only go to PvP 1 week or 2 to unlock some skills and that's all, i been forced to do PvE for the last 2 years.

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

Lol. Try doing vma on Stam nb/dk/Templar without vigor, then come back and say that. Didn't mention Stam sorc, as they can run without vigor ^^

you can unlock vigor in 3 hours lol...

K4RMA · December 2016

70% of my time as an avid PVPer is spent in PVE farming gear and gold for gear. Getting Assault/Support 10 takes 2 weeks, if that.

idk · December 2016

mb10 wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

@Sigtric Funny you say that because most alliance skills are used MORE in PVE than in PVP.

Also, gear is required for PVP and theres more than enough sets available at the vendors to choose from so why the double standard of involving gear from OUT of Cyrodiil? Your point makes no sense.

It is not a double standard since the vendor is for all of us and it deals with gear and gear only. Additionally, a player might have to wait months for the piece of gear they want to appear on the vendor meaning they do have to leave Cyrodiil to gain the gear they choose.

So, No, the two points you attempt to compare are not comparable.

Additionally, the more comparable example is Undaunted. PvPers must do pledges and dungeons to level up undaunted. The passives for max stat is a basic requirement for any serious PvPer. Even 2% additional max stat for one type of armor is very desirable.

DMuehlhausen · December 2016

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

Ever try to run vet dungeons or trials. Yeah War Horn is pretty much required if you don't want to be removed from a group.

DPShiro · December 2016

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

LOL!

So Warhorn is not required in PVE?
It's vital to end game, and plays a much larger roll than gear in PVP.

DoccEff · December 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

Why can't PvPers and PvErs get along?

And Zos keeps enforcing this stupid conflict with things like the procset nerf...

vyndral13preub18_ESO · December 2016

DoccEff wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

Why can't PvPers and PvErs get along?

And Zos keeps enforcing this stupid conflict with things like the procset nerf...

True. Most mmost figured this out long ago. But we are a different kind of mmo.

Also people are silly. Just look at this thread. People have the opinion that it is ok if you have to do stuff you don't like, but not ok if I have to do stuff I don't like.

Instead of saying yes, I agree you shouldn't have to do that, but this isn't what the this thread is about. We spend time coming up with excuses about why the other person should have to continue doing things they don't like. but I shouldn't have to do things I don't like because reasons.

Jamini · December 2016

PvP folks absolutely need to PvE to get Fighter's Guild, Mage's Guild, Skyshards, Undaunted Passives, and Monster Helms (in any reasonable timeframe. The Golden is very unlikely to have a set you specifically want).

PvE folks need PvP for Vigor, Caltrops, Warhorn, and... that's it.

The time commitment heavily favors PvE, to be honest. Grinding out dawnbreaker and Meteor (staple ultimates for many builds) and Undaunted / Skyshards (absolutely vital considering how much power you get from them) takes far, far longer.

Stovahkiin · December 2016

*thinks about pve'ers running around casting siege shield outside of Cyrodiil*

Hahahahaha

Taleof2Cities · December 2016

mb10 wrote: »

Seeing as PVP players never need to leave Cyrodiil now that they get monster sets, gold jewellery and now even overground zone sets; can PVE-ers never have to go into Cyrodiil to get Alliance and Support skill lines to 10 (especially for War Horn or Barrier)?

What if we gave PvE players 25 zones (with content) and gave PvP players 2 zones (also with content) ... Cyrodiil and Imperial City.

Oh wait ... that's already currently in the game.

AuldWolf · December 2016

Not likely. They're shifting into a PvP-focused mindset in the hopes it'll get them more dedicated players. This, of course, worked out really, incredibly well for Battleborn. (Psst, no it didn't. That was sarcasm.) There was talk in Battleborn of simply having different balance systems for casual and competitive, which never happened. And now that Blizzard has added a competitive mode, those same talks are now happening on the Overwatch forums and Reddit, and Overwatch is now hurting in numbers more than it ever has (I wonder why).

The thing is is that the largest audience who'll ever play a game are non-competitive casuals. The more you force them into competitive situations or balance the game to appease competitive people? The more you're going to alienate this massive demographic and lose all of its money. There's an outdated perspective in some people who've got some really outdated notions, who just can't keep up with modern business and demographics, where they believe that the hardcore audience brings in more money.

Wildstar was designed from the ground up for competitive people. Wildstar died.

Champions Online redesigned itself after beta to try and hook competitive people. Champions Online died.

Black Desert tried to make an MMO for hardcore, competitive PvPers. Black Desert died.

Battleborn ignored their casual audience and balanced for competitive people. Battleborn died.

Are we seeing a pattern, here?

And next up...

ESO ignored their casual audience and redesigned their game to better fit competitive people.

Can you guess what happens next? I can. And it's why my interest in ESO at the moment is almost nil. Whereas back in the early days I couldn't be more excited about the future of ESO. This is why you don't put people who favour competitive audiences in management positions. They will kill your game, because they're just fossils who don't have a clue as to what the modern MMO market looks like, they still think it's '03 and that vanilla WoW and Ultima Online are successful models, outside of tiny niches. All the while not realising that the cost of developing an MMO has skyrocketed, so you can't develop based upon competitive niches any more. You need that casual money.

Dismissing your largest demographic because of outmoded MMO models is suicide. And yet it keeps on happening. No one's derailing this failure train.

So, no. Don't expect anything for PvErs. And expect everything to change to make things better for competitive people.

NeillMcAttack · December 2016

So we still have people that believe ZOS don't want players to have to try out the different aspects of the game..?!

Interesting I suppose!!

Hand_Bacon · December 2016

I have a dream...

...someday pvp'ers and pve'ers will realize they are both just eso'ers.

SanTii.92 · December 2016

Not really, no

Jaronking · December 2016

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Gear is required for pvp
Alliance war skills are not required for pve

That's the difference

Lol. Try doing vma on Stam nb/dk/Templar without vigor, then come back and say that. Didn't mention Stam sorc, as they can run without vigor ^^

I know people who have beat VMA using just rally on a stam dk and stamplar I done it with my NB.So you don't need vigor to even do VMA so like he said you don't need any alliance war skill for pve.Not even trials because if your doing vet trials your playing a magic build.