The Elk Mount is a blatant Ripoff - Plain and Simple

lagrue

Look Zeni, I defend you alot on these forums - I even bought into your Crown Crates and was well satisfied with the experience. I have 2 years of sub still, and I buy crowns and cosmetics ALL the time. But these new items lately have just been a pure slap in the face.

First you released the Stalhrim with all of 5 mimic stones - not even enough to build a set. Hell if giving mimic stones was such a problem you should have just put stalhrim as a drop in the game.

Now this? 4500 for a mount. Your marketing team must be higher than a kite to have put a price like that on it.... seriously that's more than entire DLCs in the game cost.. in fact I could buy all 4 of the DLCs for 1000 crowns more...... there is a huge pricing issue here..... like I understand it's a limited item, a heavily requested item - but that in no way justifies trying to swindle people for 2500+ crowns. Mounts have almost always been around the 2k mark - so why would you double that?

I've waited weeks to buy this mount - now I'm not going to. I spend 100s of dollars on this game as is - but I cannot in any way justify spending 4500 crowns on a mount. Seriously. I have the money, I'm just not the massive idiot your marketing team seems to think myself, and other players, are.

Not only that, but you put the cherry on top by having absolutely no visual upgrades on the mount.... like WOW. Half finished product for twice the price.

Get your crap together. The facebook thread on this, I'm probably the only one with a nice comment - then you have 500 beneath me complaining about the price - and they aren't wrong.

Like does your marketing team use even an ounce of intelligence or strategy? Selling overpriced things during the holidays doesn't work lol not unless we're talking about limited quantity items - but since this is a digital good, that's no possible. There's just no justification in the world to price it like this.

If your typical Whale who would buy anything isn't buying - you dun goofed.

Jeremiah87

I've been so exited for this mount since it was first announced but I will not spend 30$+ on a digital mount.
I love supporting the game via my subscription which I have since launch and even though I get free access to the DLCs I still buy them to support the game. I bought many adequately priced items from the crown store and even as we speak I still have 15000 crowns on my account - but this is where I draw the line.
A mount for more than 2500-3000 crowns is ridiculous.

Snit

I'm just happy I don't have that strong urge to collect that causes some people to grind, trade or pay for everything in a category. MMO's are getting to be pretty expensive for obsessive mount or pet collectors.

I don't feel 'extorted,' as there are no circumstances under which I feel forced to buy a cosmetic item. But I understand there may be some people for whom this is different.

Rosveen

It literally is not extortion. Nobody's forcing us to buy it, intimidating or threatening us. It's just an expensive cosmetic you can pass up on if you're not comfortable with the price - plain and simple. The sky won't fall if you don't buy it.

yodased

So don't buy it? Or this is you want it, but you can't "justify" the price?

The market dictates the price and I have for one seen 8 today only and I'm leveling a new character, so that is 8 people that have dropped the 4,500 crowns on it.

I don't think its worth 40 bucks, so I won't buy it. I also don't think crown crates are worth it, so i don't buy them.

If you want it, you buy it. Doesn't really matter if your perceived valuation or anyone's is lower than the cost, it is, as they say, what it is.

Jim_Pipp

I truly hope enough of the ZOS staff read this. I think the OP is speaking on behalf of a large proportion of the community.

Like the OP I consider myself a loyal and regular customer of ZOS. While other businesses make an effort to maintain good customer relationships ZOS's strategy seems to be "How much do you think we can get out of them now?"

This short-minded money-grabbing will only hurt ZOS in the long-run, as the player base becomes more negative and turns to something that doesn't consistently disappoint them...

Cillion3117

If you want the mount and can afford it, then get it. If you don't want or can't afford, then don't get it. Problem solved.

driosketch

We are seeing a lot of threads on the elk price. Normally it would be annoying, but honestly don't care any more.

Voting with your wallet has limited effectiveness. After all, even if I buy 0 crates my neighbor could buy 60.

Complaining, however, is a form of feedback and has a greater than zero chance of changing a company's practice. So go right ahead.

lagrue

Cillion3117 wrote: »

If you want the mount and can afford it, then get it. If you don't want or can't afford, then don't get it. Problem solved.

People like you make me shake my head so damn hard.

Yes I have the money and yes I want it. What I don't want it to be blatantly ripped off. It's an insult to my intelligence as a consumer.

The problem is solved when they lower the price to something reasonable. So the only reason I'm not getting it has nothing to do with not being able to afford it or not want it - and everything to do with principle and the fact that I can do basic math.

Thanks for the useless comment though

/problem solved?

lagrue

yodased wrote: »

So don't buy it? Or this is you want it, but you can't "justify" the price?

The market dictates the price and I have for one seen 8 today only and I'm leveling a new character, so that is 8 people that have dropped the 4,500 crowns on it.

I don't think its worth 40 bucks, so I won't buy it. I also don't think crown crates are worth it, so i don't buy them.

If you want it, you buy it. Doesn't really matter if your perceived valuation or anyone's is lower than the cost, it is, as they say, what it is.

If the market dictated the price then it would be the same price as all the other mounts have been lol... 8 isn't alot... the day crown crates came out everybody and their dog had Atronach mounts... the demand wasn't that high that it made sense to double the price... especially now when people who actually bought the Elk are finding out it's missing basic features... no excuses here.

Just because you'll bend over and accept their shoddy practices, doesn't mean some of us out there won't atleast voice our complaints.

yodased

lagrue wrote: »

Cillion3117 wrote: »

If you want the mount and can afford it, then get it. If you don't want or can't afford, then don't get it. Problem solved.

People like you make me shake my head so damn hard.

Yes I have the money and yes I want it. What I don't want it to be blatantly ripped off. It's an insult to my intelligence as a consumer.

The problem is solved when they lower the price to something reasonable. So the only reason I'm not getting it has nothing to do with not being able to afford it or not want it - and everything to do with principle and the fact that I can do basic math.

Thanks for the useless comment though

/problem solved?

That's simply your opinion though, obviously quite a few people don't feel it is a rip off, or even overpriced since they bought it.

What sets the price? Your opinion on what it should be?

Well I feel that all mounts should be free, so any price is a blatant rip off at that point. So should I make a thread every time they sell a mount and don't give it to me?

Buy it or don't they are not going to do anything about it as long as people are buying it, and people are buying it

lagrue

yodased wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

Cillion3117 wrote: »

If you want the mount and can afford it, then get it. If you don't want or can't afford, then don't get it. Problem solved.

People like you make me shake my head so damn hard.

Yes I have the money and yes I want it. What I don't want it to be blatantly ripped off. It's an insult to my intelligence as a consumer.

The problem is solved when they lower the price to something reasonable. So the only reason I'm not getting it has nothing to do with not being able to afford it or not want it - and everything to do with principle and the fact that I can do basic math.

Thanks for the useless comment though

/problem solved?

That's simply your opinion though, obviously quite a few people don't feel it is a rip off, or even overpriced since they bought it.

What sets the price? Your opinion on what it should be?

Well I feel that all mounts should be free, so any price is a blatant rip off at that point. So should I make a thread every time they sell a mount and don't give it to me?

Buy it or don't they are not going to do anything about it as long as people are buying it, and people are buying it

What sets price? How about the fact the other mounts were around 2k - there's a little something in the sales world called consistency. I might not work for Zeni but I do work in a thrift store - weird comparisson - but if I put a drinking glass for 50 cents, then one for 2 dollars - you can bet your behind customers will approach and complain. It's not an opinion - it's straight up shill tactics they're using. People aren't stupid, they know when they're being ripped off. All you have to do is look at the mounts page and see the huge gap between prices and ask yourself why that's okay.

Also again - the mount has LESS functionality than previous mounts - it's half the product for twice the price, there's no possible way to say that's a good thing. You can play devil's advocate all you want, but it doesn't work.

Just because some people are willing to drop that much money, doesn't mean it was the appropriate price. There are people who would have paid 10k based on SENTIMENTAL value - but SENTIMENTAL value and market/item value are two entirely different things.

yodased

Uhm not sure where you got your econ degree, but what people are willing to pay sets the market value.

If you put a glass for .50 then for .70 and then for 1.50 and the for 2.00 and people continue to buy them at 2.00 even if they complain, your market value is 2.00.

If they stop buying at 2.00 and you lower it to 1.75 and they buy it while complaining, market value is 1.75.

Complaining about price while buying it means nothing.

yodased

And just to make sure you understand, I am not defending the practice of raising prices until you hit saturation, it's just the way they are doing it.

If noone purchased crown crates, they wouldn't be in the game, but the fact is there are plenty of people happy with the situation, what we as individuals feel about it is irrelevant.

lagrue

yodased wrote: »

Uhm not sure where you got your econ degree, but what people are willing to pay sets the market value.

If you put a glass for .50 then for .70 and then for 1.50 and the for 2.00 and people continue to buy them at 2.00 even if they complain, your market value is 2.00.

If they stop buying at 2.00 and you lower it to 1.75 and they buy it while complaining, market value is 1.75.

Complaining about price while buying it means nothing.

You've seen 8 people with it and you're saying that's what people are willing to pay. But if you read the 40 threads, and all the facebook comments - it becomes pretty obvious that this is not what most people are willing to pay. They would sell more AND make more if it was priced normally.

Obviously you don't have an economics degree either - but I manage a store, so I'm pretty sure I know atleast a thing or two about buying and selling stuff.

TerraDewBerry

I'm really not sure when game companies are going to figure out that their customers get very angry (and then eventually move on to other games) when they feel like they are just wallets to the game company. Pulling a money grubbing stunt right before the holidays was not a great idea imho. I had no plans to buy this mount, (thank the gods), but after seeing the price gouge ZOS is trying to get for it, I sure wouldn't buy it even if I really really wanted it.

Sigtric

I have more than enough money for the mount.
I had a decent bit of excitement and anticipation for it.

Prior sales trends in the store for this quality of mount (outside of the antlers is just a funnylooking/sounding horse) would lead most players who frequent the crown store to expect likely 2500 ish crowns.

I was prepared for 3000. I certainly didn't see any indication or reasoning it'd cost as much as the dro-mathra senche, yet here it is, 500 crowns more than even the flashiest mount to hit the store directly.

As some one who has subbed to this game for nearly it's entirety (I had one month of no sub)
As someone who has two copies of the game for himself
As someone who has bought 10 additional copies to give away to friends/on stream/contests
and as someone who frequently buys more crowns on top of the sub allotment, at both full and sale prices

I find this pricing to be nothing more than price gouging. Happy Holidays eh!?

I'm going to have to be damn impressed with it now to consider picking it up, and from what I'm seeing so far.. not likely.

Niaver

Crates.
Why would you buy crates if you could easily get mounts via direct pursache?
4500 looks silly. I suggest 10 000 or something. No-no, i know. 9 999!

yodased

Confusing feelings and facts here.

They set the price to what they knew the market would bear. They have the trend graphs, they have the data. You have what you feel.

Take it or leave it, the price is what it is, and what you FEEL would cause an increase in sales is simply putting a reason why you want the item to be a lower cost.

Obviously they are not going to share their data with us, but we sure can share our feelings with them.

lagrue

Yeah that's not a feeling... it's a basic fact of sales. If you overcharge then you sell and make less. If you're consistent with your pricing and don't charge 100% more than similar products, you make more sales and in the end generate more revenue.

There's a reason my store has an increased profit of up to 800% in the last 3 months. I did in the last 3 months what my store did in the entire year of 2009.

You know what I did? I lowered prices to be reasonable not started throwing out mystery objects for 100% more.

I might not have their data - but then again, they don't either because they've never sold a mount for this price before. They are testing the waters to see what they can get away with.

iirainbow_dash

I was gonna buy it until I saw it has running animation like a horse and same crying animation too. Ugh.

yodased

sigh ok, you win. Maybe ZOS will hire you and you can set the sales records of mounts for them.

lagrue

yodased wrote: »

sigh ok, you win. Maybe ZOS will hire you and you can set the sales records of mounts for them.

It's not a matter of wanting to win or lose - I just have an idea of what I'm talking about - and Zeni probably would be better off with me behind their wheel, but hey-*** I guess they don't see it how I do.

8 people at 4500 vs 80 people at 2500. It's just simple math to me. One of those is far more profitable than the other. Just the sheer amount of people NOT buying it because of the price is a hit to their profit point.

This also isn't a matter of name branding or quality or anything like that... functionally there is nothing different with other mounts, except that it doesn't have visual upgrades (which is actually a downgrade)... It's just illogical to sell the same product with a different skin, but have a 100% increase in price.

Somebody should be able to detect the problem here.

weisthor

without having read all the previous posts, i fully agree with the initial post.
i was looking forward to this mount for weeks but i won´t buy it.
who in their right mind would ask 4500 crownes for a simple mount?
that is more than the cost of a full dlc.

complete madness.

newtinmpls

It's not extortion on a voluntary payment.

Don't like the price, don't pay.

I own NO "crown motifs" because I don't like the price.

NO crown crates

The stuff I buy is the stuff I'm willing to buy.

NordSwordnBoard

lagrue wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Uhm not sure where you got your econ degree, but what people are willing to pay sets the market value.

If you put a glass for .50 then for .70 and then for 1.50 and the for 2.00 and people continue to buy them at 2.00 even if they complain, your market value is 2.00.

If they stop buying at 2.00 and you lower it to 1.75 and they buy it while complaining, market value is 1.75.

Complaining about price while buying it means nothing.

You've seen 8 people with it and you're saying that's what people are willing to pay. But if you read the 40 threads, and all the facebook comments - it becomes pretty obvious that this is not what most people are willing to pay. They would sell more AND make more if it was priced normally.

Obviously you don't have an economics degree either - but I manage a store, so I'm pretty sure I know atleast a thing or two about buying and selling stuff.

The market (in this case) does not adjust itself immediately after each purchase. The market price is determined by actual purchases, not complaint threads.

@lagrue There is NO COMPETITION in this marketplace for this same product. Without competition, they have NOBODY to lose sales to. Comparing it to where you work is a poor comparison, as you have competition for what you sell and they don't. Two totally different market types at work here. The logistics of physical product and data on a server are totally different.

Consider this:

If they only sell 8 mounts out of an infinite supply that has minimal cost of production & storage their loss is negligible.
If your thrift store orders 800 glasses and you only sell 200, you have to pay to do something with the 600 that didn't sell in order to accommodate the next product coming in that you already ordered. You lose money by not selling, but they don't.

The only way we can confirm these are overpriced is if they go ahead and lower the price due to lack of sales. If they don't lower the price, then they are satisfied with the price they charge, because it works for them. It just doesn't work for most of us, which is too bad for us. Accept it, or get riled up over things beyond your control. That's up to you.

Jayne_Doe

I was really excited for this mount, which is, of course, what they were counting on when they set the price. I agree that they are testing the waters, here. Trying to see how much people will fork over for things.

It may also have something to do with how much people were willing to spend on the crates to get what they want. So, they figured they'd up the price for limited mounts they deem highly desirable.

I am one of those that really balked at the price of the dro-M'athra senche, which was the highest limited item at 4,000 Crowns. But, since I had recently canceled my sub due to it not working consistently on XB, I decided to purchase it to support ZOS.

However, now we have a limited mount at 4,500? I'll have to see it for myself, but it sounds like the upgrade visuals don't work on it? As for its running animation being the same as a horse, honestly, that's what I expected. Afterall, the wolf mounts have the same running animation as senches, which is why I haven't bothered to buy any of them.

Well...I'll have to decide if it's worth it for me and if I want to support them with their price creep.

Ourorboros

Yes, it's over-priced. Yes, more players would buy at a lower price. It's called CAPITALISM. I neither know nor care why the price was set this high. Maybe someone misjudged the market, maybe this is a test case. Bottom line is live up to your own values. Buy it or don't buy it, the price is what the price is. If the Ice Mount had cost this much, I would have passed, even though I really wanted it. Others would have bought it. They have their values, I have mine. zos is free to run their business any way they choose, even if that means running it into the ground. As for all the threads complaining about the price, the only thing that matters in the end to zos is the profitability of the Elk.

Glurin

yodased wrote: »

Uhm not sure where you got your econ degree, but what people are willing to pay sets the market value.

If you put a glass for .50 then for .70 and then for 1.50 and the for 2.00 and people continue to buy them at 2.00 even if they complain, your market value is 2.00.

If they stop buying at 2.00 and you lower it to 1.75 and they buy it while complaining, market value is 1.75.

Complaining about price while buying it means nothing.

That's right. What people are willing to pay sets the value. That's why I set the price of my chocolate chip cookies at five million dollars a cookie. I know there's somebody out there willing to pay five million dollars for one. After all, it's not about what you bought. It's about how much you paid for it.

Besides, this way I only need to sell one cookie.

yodased

Glurin wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Uhm not sure where you got your econ degree, but what people are willing to pay sets the market value.

If you put a glass for .50 then for .70 and then for 1.50 and the for 2.00 and people continue to buy them at 2.00 even if they complain, your market value is 2.00.

If they stop buying at 2.00 and you lower it to 1.75 and they buy it while complaining, market value is 1.75.

Complaining about price while buying it means nothing.

That's right. What people are willing to pay sets the value. That's why I set the price of my chocolate chip cookies at five million dollars a cookie. I know there's somebody out there willing to pay five million dollars for one. After all, it's not about what you bought. It's about how much you paid for it.

Besides, this way I only need to sell one cookie.

That doesn't work because there is a set value from competition and historical data of the cookie. If you somehow had something different that had no competition you could in theory set whatever price you wanted for it as people can't compare or get that cookie anywhere else. You can be snarky all you want, but if your cookie was unique or like licked by donald trump or something, you could get that 5m.

SthomasNV

Highway robbery