Use the PTS, ZOS!

Browiseth

So, let's not beat around the bush, this game is broken. Like, seriously broken. Like, more broken than Oblivion and Morrowind combined broken. That's pretty broken.

ok it's not that bad, but we really can't balance the game with a handful of heavy-handed changes every four months that just break it in new ways for the next four months. So, why not use the PTS more often? Just throw changes on there whenever you guys want! Just throw 'em in there in the space between major updates, could be something crazy like...Sorc pets have infinite health and can't die. Or DK dragon blood as a 100% heal, or all players health values are halved, or all players' regen values are halved, or...

You get the idea. Crazy changes. Stuff you wouldn't dream of putting on live. And then we test them. Find out what works, find out what could be tweaked to work, then come the next major update, you've got way more information on deciding which balance changes should be pushed.

Because we really can't balance the game like this, guys. We can't just suddenly have OP proc sets out of nowhere and have to deal with it for a quarter of a year, to be followed up with whatever the next FOTM is due to such a drastically changed meta. This is a formula Blizzard has been using with Overwatch; they completely overbuffed a character on its PTS at one point in that game, and just worked from there to make a more reasonable change.

lol did you just compare an FPS MOBA to ESO you're doing it wrong

thank you for your input

edited for more clarity and passive aggressive sarcasm

Riga_Mortis

Trouble is zeni put content on the PTS, and then ignore most of the feedback, eventually releasing buggy/broken content to the live server anyway.

xRIVALENx

Excellent idea! ZOS also needs to listen to the advice and recommendations given by the PTS community and not just completely ignore it like they do currently.

JD2013

Players would actually have to use the PTS too.

The amount of players who use PTS compared to those on live is a very big difference. The data will never fully correlate with what will and could happen by population alone, let alone many other variables.

Tandor

JD2013 wrote: »

Players would actually have to use the PTS too.

The amount of players who use PTS compared to those on live is a very big difference. The data will never fully correlate with what will and could happen by population alone, let alone many other variables.

Moreover, all the players on the PTS would have to play objectively in order to report imbalances and broken features, rather than in order to spot the imbalances and broken features early so they can profit from them when they go live !

The other problem is that so many of the problems being talked about are really only of consequence to the hardcore and competitive players in both PvP and PvE and don't impact on most of the players. Most PvEers aren't bothered whether one class is unbalanced in relation to another, and I'm willing to bet that most PvPers are more concerned with the performance in Cyrodiil than they are with class balancing. While I can understand the frustration of the strongly vocal minority at the delays in fixing those issues, I can also understand the lack of priority on the part of ZOS in addressing them when there are more pressing matters that affect the more silent majority.

DMuehlhausen

Browiseth wrote: »

So, let's not beat around the bush, this game is broken. Like, seriously broken. Like, more broken than Oblivion and Morrowind combined broken. That's pretty broken.

ok it's not that bad, but we really can't balance the game with a handful of heavy-handed changes every four months that just break it in new ways for the next four months. So, why not use the PTS more often? Just throw changes on there whenever you guys want! Just throw 'em in there, could be something crazy like...Sorc pets have infinite health and can't die. Or DK dragon blood as a 100% heal, or all players health values are halved, or all players' regen values are halved, or...

You get the idea. Crazy changes. Stuff you wouldn't dream of putting on live. And then we test them. Find out what works, find out what could be tweaked to work, then come the next major update, you've got way more information on deciding which balance changes should be pushed.

Because we really can't balance the game like this, guys. We can't just suddenly have OP proc sets out of nowhere and have to deal with it for a quarter of a year, to be followed up with whatever the next FOTM is due to such a drastically changed meta

Stopped reading as soon as you compared this to Single Player game that aren't ever changing with new huge patches and events on a quarterly basis.

Vorcil

What about with thieves guild, the PTS version of the game was okay, there were lots of major bugs found, they were acknowledged, then ZOS decided to release a completely different version that was completely untested.

lol..

Browiseth

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

So, let's not beat around the bush, this game is broken. Like, seriously broken. Like, more broken than Oblivion and Morrowind combined broken. That's pretty broken.

ok it's not that bad, but we really can't balance the game with a handful of heavy-handed changes every four months that just break it in new ways for the next four months. So, why not use the PTS more often? Just throw changes on there whenever you guys want! Just throw 'em in there, could be something crazy like...Sorc pets have infinite health and can't die. Or DK dragon blood as a 100% heal, or all players health values are halved, or all players' regen values are halved, or...

You get the idea. Crazy changes. Stuff you wouldn't dream of putting on live. And then we test them. Find out what works, find out what could be tweaked to work, then come the next major update, you've got way more information on deciding which balance changes should be pushed.

Because we really can't balance the game like this, guys. We can't just suddenly have OP proc sets out of nowhere and have to deal with it for a quarter of a year, to be followed up with whatever the next FOTM is due to such a drastically changed meta

Stopped reading as soon as you compared this to Single Player game that aren't ever changing with new huge patches and events on a quarterly basis.

That was me trying to be funny with an over exaggeration

I sincerely hope light-heartedness isn't a reason to disregard someone's integrity in your eyes

Elsonso

Minus the crazy changes, this is largely what ZOS does with PTS. Rather than being radical about things, they release what they think they want to do and tweak from there. PTS is not for bug fixing, it is about tuning theIr vision.

Yes, they should use PTS to help decide on the scope of the vision, which is the real change suggested in the OP.

Browiseth

lordrichter wrote: »

Minus the crazy changes, this is largely what ZOS does with PTS. Rather than being radical about things, they release what they think they want to do and tweak from there. PTS is not for bug fixing, it is about tuning theIr vision.

Yes, they should use PTS to help decide on the scope of the vision, which is the real change suggested in the OP.

The point I wanted to make really was that they don't do it enough. We get one month to try out some changes that weren't communicated beforehand, when what I'm suggesting is that we get changes pushed onto PTS all the time. They don't even need to be changes with the intention of being put on live in the first place; it could easily be just for the sake of information gathering, so ZOS can feel for what the community thinks works in this game.

We can't deny that there's a certain disconnect between ZOS, the game and the players, and I think this change in managing the game could help alleviate that.

Would it take more work? Yes, but as I say, we just can't go on with radical changes every four months and have to deal with it until the next set of radical changes

mb10

LOL I'm pretty damn sure they have their own test server.

"Broken" and "unbalanced" are two very different things lol. Before telling ZOS what to do, it would be cool to have an understanding of what you're even saying first.

Browiseth

mb10 wrote: »

LOL I'm pretty damn sure they have their own test server.


And I must be playing a completely different game to most people here because I genuinely have a smooth experience every single time I play.

Have you never stopped to think that its your PC and your internet connection thats the problem?

Im personally on console, PS4 and can confidently tell you that any major problem you have atm gameplay wise is your connection. Its not broken at all and the game is actually very smooth.

@mb10

Where in my OP did I mention anything about internet connections or performance issues?

idk

@Browiseth

How much time have you spent with the last 2 PTS offerings before they went live? How much if the new content and major changes have you tested?

That's the question one needs to ask before telling Zos they need to use the PTS.

Additionally, a great many that follow the PTS and feedback from the PTS know changes are made based on sound and logical feedback provided.

Furthermore, some are more sensative to issues in a game than others (sans PvP which has never been right). No one should expect every bug to be fixed. Every MMO has bugs that have existed from launch.

Zos has come a long way and while some complain about maintenance times, Zos has been doing decent work and correctly my serious issues overall.

Browiseth

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Browiseth

How much time have you spent with the last 2 PTS offerings before they went live? How much if the new content and major changes have you tested?

That's the question one needs to ask before telling Zos they need to use the PTS.

Additionally, a great many that follow the PTS and feedback from the PTS know changes are made based on sound and logical feedback provided.

Furthermore, some are more sensative to issues in a game than others (sans PvP which has never been right). No one should expect every bug to be fixed. Every MMO has bugs that have existed from launch.

Zos has come a long way and while some complain about maintenance times, Zos has been doing decent work and correctly my serious issues overall.

I played around for a while with the Wrothgar and Dark Brotherhood PTS's, mostly trying out ability changes and such

I completely agree that this game has come a long way, and ZOS does good work. But they can potentially do more with the PTS, rather than it being reserved to exist for just one month every quarter of a year.

Elsonso

Browiseth wrote: »

We can't deny that there's a certain disconnect between ZOS, the game and the players, and I think this change in managing the game could help alleviate that.

Well, there is no doubt that there is a disconnect.

Your idea would allow them to see where they need to re-think their designs before they get to the point where all they can do is tweak them. As it is now, they are doing a lot of this in an Ivory Tower.

Before that happens, though, they need to rethink the whole customer-studio relationship thing. They would have to drop the wall they built, and I don't see that happening. Ever. It is not easy, and it takes time. What is more, it might cost more to do it than they can recover.

Browiseth

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

No one should expect every bug to be fixed.

With that line of thinking, why even have a forum to discuss and bring attention to these bugs if we can't even expect it to be taken to heart?

DHale

The pts has little impact on the end product they work months on these things and they are not going to admit they messed up. I.e. 6 second shields, aoe caps, green dragon blood. But most of the time I am glad they don't listen to players. Players only want what they want, not what is good for the game.

idk

Browiseth wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Browiseth

How much time have you spent with the last 2 PTS offerings before they went live? How much if the new content and major changes have you tested?

That's the question one needs to ask before telling Zos they need to use the PTS.

Additionally, a great many that follow the PTS and feedback from the PTS know changes are made based on sound and logical feedback provided.

Furthermore, some are more sensative to issues in a game than others (sans PvP which has never been right). No one should expect every bug to be fixed. Every MMO has bugs that have existed from launch.

Zos has come a long way and while some complain about maintenance times, Zos has been doing decent work and correctly my serious issues overall.

I played around for a while with the Wrothgar and Dark Brotherhood PTS's, mostly trying out ability changes and such

I completely agree that this game has come a long way, and ZOS does good work. But they can potentially do more with the PTS, rather than it being reserved to exist for just one month every quarter of a year.

Playing around with a couple updates is light duty. What Zos is able to do with the PTS rests mostly in our hands since they need both our feedback as well
Asnour actions for sever metric to help.

Get a group of your guildies and do new dungeons or quests. Even with a trial
Most guilds can complete normal mode. It takes effort to do actual testing.

And BTW, Zos also has private test servers they use but it doesn't provide enough data points nor enough hours of actual experience that we can provide on the PTS. Load is also something that cannot be tested even on the PTS.

Elsonso

Browiseth wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

No one should expect every bug to be fixed.

With that line of thinking, why even have a forum to discuss and bring attention to these bugs if we can't even expect it to be taken to heart?

There is a difference between "taken to heart" and "expect every bug to be fixed".

I certainly don't expect every bug to be fixed. It will never happen, no matter how many hearts are taken.