If ZOS removed visible character levels and CP in dungeons you'd resolve some issues (Activity...)

NewBlacksmurf

Understand this is only for groups using activity finder.

In context of players having adverse experiences amongst others in environments like a dungeon a sure way to create a One Tamriel feeling and to establish a much better "help others" or to remove elitism would be to remove the visual problem first.

*They should remove the visual character levels and cp levels from being seen by other players.

Why:
-Because pre-level 50 you can use CP but no one can see it. That's really a silly decision IMO but to resolve what it causes, remove the indicators all together for others. I don't feel it makes any sense to show both the level and CP.

Clearing a few things up:
It's only if you enter a random or specific queue.....if a group is pre-formed and they go to a dungeon on their own....none of this should apply.

I don't feel we ourselves shouldn't be able to see our own level and CP but if we can't inspect others, we also shouldn't see their level or CP in dungeons when using the activity finder.

The overall goal is for random groups, to create an environment where ppl will work together.

Idea:
There is an idea I have about offering undaunted skills but this isn't to create a nerf to the ease of content but it's to equip ppl with min requirement skills so the group knows it's very possible to complete the activity.

BUT maybe it should be a penalty if they are not unlocked or maybe too low to access skills but because ZOS is throwing them into various dungeons by queue it's an issue.

***I'd rather ZOS not allow ppl to enter dungeons that are harder until their level and skills are both unlocked. Not just levels but skills based on role selection


Overall the ideas are that this should really let ppl play with their friends and not worry so much about an ideal build just for running group content.

Veteran dungeons:

Logically this impacts normal moreso rather than Vet dungeons. I do feel that Vet could use tweaks but I personally feel that those tweaks should be limiting role selection until a skill and morph are unlocked and equip on one of the bars prior to entering a queue. The rest is just a limit to accessing certain Vet dungeons using the old VR tiered setup.

I don't think this should apply to trials or PvP. It's just for group dungeons as there are other posts an ideas around problematic things outside of dungeons.


Thoughts?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I dont think it will fix anything. People would just start asking people for cp at the start pf the dungeon and then vote kick or leave if people dont respond or are low cp. and if people lie or just get going they will just start booting people they think arent doing what they should.

The problem is the people who do thos sort of thing, not the system. Just because he cant see your see cp doesnt mean jerko #1 is all of a sudden going to be caring and understanding and wanting to help those that need it. No he will still be a jerk and try to kick people as soon as he can.

DMuehlhausen

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I dont think it will fix anything. People would just start asking people for cp at the start pf the dungeon and then vote kick or leave if people dont respond or are low cp. and if people lie or just get going they will just start booting people they think arent doing what they should.

The problem is the people who do thos sort of thing, not the system. Just because he cant see your see cp doesnt mean jerko #1 is all of a sudden going to be caring and understanding and wanting to help those that need it. No he will still be a jerk and try to kick people as soon as he can.

This is mostly true. However if you get through a boss or two then people start wondering if you aren't high enough they may not kick you based on the fact that some people would join and leave if they don't get to do the whole dungeon.

Either way it's a moot point. The only thing they need to do to fix the problem is remove the stupid timer if you are kicked BEFORE YOU EVEN LOAD INTO THE DUNGEON!

DigitalShibby

I said something similar in another thread but I whole heartily agree CP needs to be private, there is no benefit of it being public. Some of the worst players I've met, not only in attitude but in skill level tend to be high CP. They do dumb elitist things even in group finder like kicking anyone below 300CP for a vet dungeon.

High CP does not determine skill level but sadly too many people think that's the case. Also people spread so much misinformation about CP, I've met many newer players who are 160-250 CP who are grinding to get to 300CP so they can finally "access" vet dungeons, because people have consistently kicked them or wrongfully told them that they should wait till said CP level in order to do vet content. It's absolutely ridiculous what higher CP players tell lower ones, and how they treat them.

I really do miss the days of VR16 with hidden CP numbers. If you want to find players in zone chat make them link achievements. There is no benefit to CP being public.. if people care so much about it why don't we display people's recorded play time instead, right next to their name, so we can judge people based of how many months and years of their life they sunk into a game?

But hey, I'm also someone who thinks shared CP across accounts is ridiculous too, if you want a 600CP night blade you should have to earn it, not just automatically be given 600CP because your other character did it. That's my opinion anyway.

ArchMikem

Or they could just show the CP count as well as the level on pre-50 characters. I'm pretty sure groups wouldn't be as quick to kick someone if they were "35 (*)561".

thomas1970b16_ESO

Make veteran dungeons require at least cp 160.

DigitalShibby

thomas1970b16_ESO wrote: »

Make veteran dungeons require at least cp 160.

Lmfao. This is the kind of dumb thing that's hurting the game. I completed all vet dungeons and dlc dungeons including hard mode before 160CP. And many people can, CP doesn't change your skill level.. skill still means more than CP does thankfully.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

The other option would be to remove or severely restrict a vote kick. For example, you should not be able to vote kick anyone before you have pulled the first mob. Perhaps require 3 wipes before anyone can be kicked. It's group finder after all. If you want to speed run ICP, perhaps make a friend or 2 and join a guild...

Sidebar: I never did much with groupfinder until recently. I leveled a tank and it seems to be a good way to practice. There seems to be one clown in every group. Had a guy raging after the first boss in fungal 2, where you have to DPS one of the adds chaining you down. I tried to explain the fight after we wiped (one time), and said, "This is a basic DPS check, if we all focus the same add, it wont be an issue." I went on further to say that unless I am pinned, I will go up to the closest add and debuff him, so everyone focus whatever you see the tank on. Simple enough strat. The next pull, he is on one add, while the rest of us are on the other. Fortunately, I had a good healer and another DPS that at least tried to follow instructions. The clown, started complaining about halfway through that it was taking too long. I posted our group damage from Combat Metrics at about 15K group DPS (which is absoutley terrible). I said if you want to go faster, you are going to need to do more damage. Mephala took 9 minutes to kill and the last boss took about 8. His response, "why do people always blame the DPS?" Not sure why I am ranting, but its just funny. This guy had no idea that he was just carried through a vet dungeon and all we got were complaints and insults. Haha.

Point is, you cant expect perfect groups with 4 randoms and no communication. If you dont like that, dont join group finder. Probably also doesnt help that ZOS turned everything in a big bag of health when the "balanced" everything, but that is a different thread i suppose...

NewBlacksmurf

ArchMikem wrote: »

Or they could just show the CP count as well as the level on pre-50 characters. I'm pretty sure groups wouldn't be as quick to kick someone if they were "35 (*)561".

@ArchMikem
I could be wrong but I'm not hearing that showing both cp and level would offset anything. It would also be an eye sore and ppl would request to turn off one or the other in settings.

The first kick reason for some is that ppl aren't X level

In the veteran dungeons the first kick reason is that someone isn't X amount of CP.

Later comes the roles which my idea...tho flawed starts to touch on using undaunted skills. Honestly tho skills on a bar per role is the most ideal situation. Roles would be blocked unless X amount of skills were on the bar

SolarCat02

ArchMikem wrote: »

Or they could just show the CP count as well as the level on pre-50 characters. I'm pretty sure groups wouldn't be as quick to kick someone if they were "35 (*)561".

Sadly, then some people would start to require CP for normal dungeons.

Sure, I personally would be much less likely to be kicked when on an alt, but what about new players? And like it or not, new players are what keeps this game alive.

When Maw came out, my guild started running our newbies through a scaled down version to unlock the color. Meant they were less likely to be kicked from dungeons, wearing that noticeable blue. We taught them dungeon mechanics, too, but somehow wearing that blue had more impact in PUGs than the knowledge of how to play in a dungeon.

Jimbullbee85

It's fine how it is. We cant let the occasional A'hole to change the way we do things. Knowing the capabilities and limitations of the team at the get go is very beneficial. Taking that away would cause more animosity in my opinion.

disintegr8

Some people are going to be @$$#oles regardless of how they try and fix the group finder and there is nothing we or ZOS can do to stop it.

I agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw that a time restriction on vote to kick would help. No vote to kick for 5 or 10 minutes would be sufficient. If you want speed runs or no death achievements, why the heck are you using group finder?

Doing it on wipes is possible but I would see people wiping on the first mob just to vote a low level player out. Doing it based on first boss completion could be considered but it could mean players leave rather than wait to kick someone if the fight is going to take forever (although I guess then the problem is partly resolved).

I think they need to tier the dungeon finder to better match dungeons with character level and give higher level people a choice of wanting to be placed in the lower tiered dungeons. There dungeons are already tiered, all they need to do is limit dungeon allocation to those tiers equal or below your characters level (be good if they accounted for CP but that may be a bit much to expect). They would also need to place the DLC dungeons in these tiers - no level 15 character without any CP should be placed in CoS or RoM.

I also agree with Oreyn - if you can't handle running in PUG's, find your own group to run with - that goes for high and low level players. Everyone has the right to use the only tool the game gives us and it will never keep everyone happy. Either work with what we have or do not use it.

NewBlacksmurf

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

It's fine how it is. We cant let the occasional A'hole to change the way we do things. Knowing the capabilities and limitations of the team at the get go is very beneficial. Taking that away would cause more animosity in my opinion.

@Jimbullbee85

I passionately disagree that it's fine as is.
While this idea may not he needed, people are getting into dungeons that they shouldn't have been put into via the queue.

There is a need for role restriction selections by some measure and developers need to look into why ppl can do any dungeon regardless of their level or cp. the only real restriction is that veteran requires CP. that's creating poor and impossible situations daily to many groups.

This could be avoided

Oreyn_Bearclaw

disintegr8 wrote: »

Some people are going to be @$$#oles regardless of how they try and fix the group finder and there is nothing we or ZOS can do to stop it.

I agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw that a time restriction on vote to kick would help. No vote to kick for 5 or 10 minutes would be sufficient. If you want speed runs or no death achievements, why the heck are you using group finder?

Doing it on wipes is possible but I would see people wiping on the first mob just to vote a low level player out. Doing it based on first boss completion could be considered but it could mean players leave rather than wait to kick someone if the fight is going to take forever (although I guess then the problem is partly resolved).

I think they need to tier the dungeon finder to better match dungeons with character level and give higher level people a choice of wanting to be placed in the lower tiered dungeons. There dungeons are already tiered, all they need to do is limit dungeon allocation to those tiers equal or below your characters level (be good if they accounted for CP but that may be a bit much to expect). They would also need to place the DLC dungeons in these tiers - no level 15 character without any CP should be placed in CoS or RoM.

I also agree with Oreyn - if you can't handle running in PUG's, find your own group to run with - that goes for high and low level players. Everyone has the right to use the only tool the game gives us and it will never keep everyone happy. Either work with what we have or do not use it.

@disintegr8

I like it. A simple time requirement would probably do the trick. Nothing wrong with requiring 10 minutes of being in the dungeon before people start getting kicked. If you dont like it, well make a friend. haha. I would also not be opposed to limiting the number of times a player could initiate a group kick per day (like once).

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Some people are going to be @$$#oles regardless of how they try and fix the group finder and there is nothing we or ZOS can do to stop it.

I agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw that a time restriction on vote to kick would help. No vote to kick for 5 or 10 minutes would be sufficient. If you want speed runs or no death achievements, why the heck are you using group finder?

Doing it on wipes is possible but I would see people wiping on the first mob just to vote a low level player out. Doing it based on first boss completion could be considered but it could mean players leave rather than wait to kick someone if the fight is going to take forever (although I guess then the problem is partly resolved).

I think they need to tier the dungeon finder to better match dungeons with character level and give higher level people a choice of wanting to be placed in the lower tiered dungeons. There dungeons are already tiered, all they need to do is limit dungeon allocation to those tiers equal or below your characters level (be good if they accounted for CP but that may be a bit much to expect). They would also need to place the DLC dungeons in these tiers - no level 15 character without any CP should be placed in CoS or RoM.

I also agree with Oreyn - if you can't handle running in PUG's, find your own group to run with - that goes for high and low level players. Everyone has the right to use the only tool the game gives us and it will never keep everyone happy. Either work with what we have or do not use it.

@disintegr8

I like it. A simple time requirement would probably do the trick. Nothing wrong with requiring 10 minutes of being in the dungeon before people start getting kicked. If you dont like it, well make a friend. haha. I would also not be opposed to limiting the number of times a player could initiate a group kick per day (like once).

Edit: Obviously a smarter group finder would be the best solution, but I am not holding my breath. I agree that the vet dungeons should probably be tiered based on zone.

Zone 1: No CP req.
Zone 2: 30
Zone 3: 60
Zone 4: 90
Zone 5 120
DLC: 160 (gear cap). Something like this would probably help a bit as well.