Improving Intimidation and Persuasion

Enodoc

Currently, Intimidating Presence and Persuasive Will are either "on" or "off". If they're active, they always succeed. If not, they can't even be chosen. In previous Elder Scrolls games, and other RPGs with Intimidate and Persuade, the game usually makes a check against certain factors; if the check passes, the attempt succeeds, and if not, the attempt fails. I would like to see this feature brought to ESO, to make investing in the skills worthwhile, and to provide the possibility of failure to make it less of a one-sided choice.

Each skill would have three ranks, with the first one being given for free on joining the respective Guild (in order to offset slightly the extra skill points required). Every instance of Persuade and Intimidate in dialogue would be ranked according to the NPCs personality and "likelihood" of success. For example, attempting to Intimidate a soldier or guard would be unlikely to succeed, as such characters are trained to not react to intimidation. Thus, an Intimidate option on such an NPC would require Intimidating Presence Rank III in order to succeed. Intimidating a cowardly scholar, on the other hand, may only require Intimidating Presence Rank I. Every interaction would be assigned a single Rank, with no RNG chances, so it would always take, for example, Persuasive Will Rank II to convince Abnur Tharn that you are a friend during Chasing Shadows.

If you do not have any ranks in the skill at all (ie, you haven't joined the guild it comes from), you would still be unable to make the Intimidate or Persuade selection. If, however, you have at least Rank I, you would always be able to attempt it, which means it would have the potential to fail. Failing the check could result in the information you're trying to achieve becoming harder to acquire (or at least, no easier), bringing a measure of risk into the equation when determining whether or not it should be attempted.

Intimidating Presence I: Allows you to Intimidate NPCs in conversation.
Intimidating Presence II: You are more likely to succeed when Intimidating NPCs in conversation.
Intimidating Presence III: You are a master at Intimidation. All Intimidate attempts will be successful.

Persuasive Will I: Allows you to Persuade NPCs in conversation.
Persuasive Will II: You are more likely to succeed when Persuading NPCs in conversation.
Persuasive Will III: You are a master at Persuasion. All Persuade attempts will be successful.

Ourorboros

This game is so massive, I always get these passives as early as possible, just to eliminate the fetch and carry quests required without them. Yours is an interesting concept, and my only objection is it seems it would require 4 additional skill points for the extra stages. There are a lot of skill points, but my main is a jack of all trades and those skill points are getting scarce.

Vorcil

What about a bunch of achievement oriented passives?

1000 persuasions = persusasive III
500 = persuasive II
etc

I really don't like the skyshard idea for getting a lot of your skill points

Idk what the hell they were thinking: 'lets try and get people to explore all the world we have created' - > 'okay lets put soul shards, just like dragon souls but physical places' -> 'how are we going to get the latest elderscroll playerbase, i.e., skyrim into playing our game?' -> 'lets put sky in front of the word'

I would've preferred having Ayleidic ruins all over the world that you charge a Welkyn stone with or something, then use the power within for a skillpoint; much more lore friendly...

skyshards... ha

NewBlacksmurf

So I have to disagree here if I have to spend a skill point.

I'll make a deal tho.....if they fix the other skill bugs or ....heck....give me my 9 skill points back that they took and won't reset from a race change, I'll give you a maybe

Majic

It's a neat idea, but I must confess that I like the way it works now, and would consider adding the intimidate/persuade options to more quests to be the real improvement.

Memnock

Would be an interesting concept to have some work done on the persuasion and intimidation passives , if they behaved like they do in single player games , where they actually provide you better rewards or an alternative path to an objective or an extra bonus or hidden treasure.

In ESO however , those 2 passives only provide a shortcut , as in not being forced to do some additional steps in a quest chain that has the same resolution regardless if you have them or not , and them influencing only the amount of time you spend on the quest.

For the above reason , i would say that it is kind of pointless to make changes to these passives , other than maybe to add some flavor for RP purposes in quests.

Kendaric

It's a good suggestion, but I'd take it one step further:

Remove Intimidation/Persuasion from the guild skill lines and use the passives as a base for a Speechcraft skill line.

Enodoc

Ourorboros wrote: »

Yours is an interesting concept, and my only objection is it seems it would require 4 additional skill points for the extra stages. There are a lot of skill points, but my main is a jack of all trades and those skill points are getting scarce.

It would only be 2 extra skill points, as Rank I would be given for free on joining the Guild. So the currently-invested Skill Point would go on Rank II, and the extra investment would be needed for Rank III.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I have to disagree here if I have to spend a skill point.

Yeah I get that. Right now, there's really no reason at all to not spend the one skill point, as it enables you to do everything; no continued investment, full reward. To make it more engaging as a skill, this proposal adds a choice; be able to succeed at most attempts to persuade, or invest in it further to succeed at all of them. You would have to decide whether to be as persuasive/intimidating as possible, or pass over the opportunity in the most difficult cases because you want another skill instead.

Majic wrote: »

It's a neat idea, but I must confess that I like the way it works now, and would consider adding the intimidate/persuade options to more quests to be the real improvement.

It's so dull right now though. Oh look, I can try to 'persuade' you to see my view. But there's absolutely no chance of me not being able to. Under the current situation, there's no engagement in picking the skill; it only costs one skill point, and unlocks all number of quest shortcuts, so of course you're going to pick it! Even if you never use it, you unlock it anyway because the potential return is so great for the expense. If it was ranked, with Rank I unlocking for free, you'd have to take a conscious choice over whether to advance it to its full extent to be able to get all the shortcuts.

Memnock wrote: »

Would be an interesting concept to have some work done on the persuasion and intimidation passives , if they behaved like they do in single player games , where they actually provide you better rewards or an alternative path to an objective or an extra bonus or hidden treasure.

In ESO however , those 2 passives only provide a shortcut , as in not being forced to do some additional steps in a quest chain that has the same resolution regardless if you have them or not , and them influencing only the amount of time you spend on the quest.

For the above reason , i would say that it is kind of pointless to make changes to these passives , other than maybe to add some flavor for RP purposes in quests.

Yeah that's true. It would certainly be good if they had more of an impact.

Kendaric wrote: »

It's a good suggestion, but I'd take it one step further:
Remove Intimidation/Persuasion from the guild skill lines and use the passives as a base for a Speechcraft skill line.

Yeah, this would be good in the long run. An additional passive there could be reducing the cost of a bribe, or improving prices at vendors.