LFG queue jumpers getting sneakier

Iselin

So I had a random normal dungeon pop for my healer yesterday and it was ICP. It's very rare that I'm actually not doing anything at all when the dungeon pops so if I actually look at who's who on the group panel, I typically don't do it until I'm already at the dungeon.

But this time I wasn't doing anything other than reading guild chat and it was ICP after all so I did look immediately at the group screen. This is when I noticed a level 30ish NB who had queued for all 3 roles and while I was watching, he de-selected the healer and tank roles and presto, the group now has no tank, just 3 DPS and me.

When I saw that I said innocently in group chat "No tank role assigned in the group" to which this little weasel who shall not be named said "yeah the group finder screws up like that sometimes"... trap sprung... "Well maybe... but this time I watched as you turned off healer and tank from your roles. It wasn't the group finder, it was you. Do you even have 1HD+S and any taunts trained?" ... "No... let's just try it"... "Yeah well...No"

This is when I started the vote to kick him and it failed... so I left wishing them good luck

ArchMikem

Normally I'd give out some hate about the kick feature, but that guy, even though was maybe selecting all three roles to get into a group faster, was still a sneaky lying little skeever. Not to mention a Lvl30 in that Dungeon?

Iselin

ArchMikem wrote: »

Normally I'd give out some hate about the kick feature, but that guy, even though was maybe selecting all three roles to get into a group faster, was still a sneaky lying little skeever. Not to mention a Lvl30 in that Dungeon?

Well the 15 minute penalty still does suck as a feature but that's a different issue. After all I did end up having to give myself a 15 minute penalty in that situation for leaving a dysfunctional group caused by someone else.

DRXHarbinger

Tank role needs to have a feature that requires a shield equipped or level 50 in S&B. Too many humans out there thinking thier stam sorc can sponge a 22k flurry from the overfiend.

Yinmaigao

So much this.

Sick of douchers selecting all the roles and then saying "let's just try it".

Translation: "let's see if you can carry me".

WhitePawPrints

I consider deliberately queuing as a role you know you're not suited for is the worst offense. 95% of faux tanks end up wasting everyone's time, including their own, because they thought they could save time by lying, and trying to cut in line.

A very strong penalty needs to be put in place for players like this.

VoidBlue

You should only be able to que as one and only one.

Than not be able to change it until you're out of a group.


@ZOS_GinaBruno

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

I'll be honest I sometimes fake que now bc on console it takes so long for DPS to get a group.
I only do it on normal when looking to get exp chunk. Goes fine, things melt in normal.

Iselin

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I'll be honest I sometimes fake que now bc on console it takes so long for DPS to get a group.
I only do it on normal when looking to get exp chunk. Goes fine, things melt in normal.

Normal BC lol... BC1, FG1, Spindle 1. They can ll be soloed by any DPS with AOE and a self heal. You might even learn something doing it.

But sorry, trying to fool 3 other strangers and forcing them to do it your way is just a selfish thing to do no matter how you try to spin it.

itehache

That's why I think the group finder tool should be changed. Nobody should be able to queue as a tank without a taunt on their skills, 1h & shield etc + nobody should be able to queue as a healer without heals equipped on them. I am a dd but I can queue as a healer if I wanted to, which doesn't make any sense.

disintegr8

They need to lose the 15 minute penalty. It won't fix the DPS wait times but at least you can queue again straight away.

People are only human and there are always those who will take any shortcut they can to get what they want. I doubt the finder will be modified extensively to check a character is equipped or set up for a role, there is no new income to be garnered from it, so it would be an extremely low priority.

Reykice

Kick them then they get 100% of the 15 min penalty and find replacement its fast.

ZOS will not fix it the game is going down they no longer have money to do much look at how DLC's have slowed after Orsinium.

And with no money taking devs from other stuff for this will never happen. Also from their perspective even *** and cheaters spend money so they are ok with it, its just other players hurting not ZOS.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

When i care i always look at the group right when it pops because this happens far to often. I dont care to much if it is an easy dungeons. But if it is one of the dungeons i dont enjoy or think is a pain, i just move on.

Vorcil

VoidBlue wrote: »

You should only be able to que as one and only one.

Than not be able to change it until you're out of a group.


@ZOS_GinaBruno

People can be all three roles;

In other MMOs and this MMO it is possible to be a healing / dps NB, it is possible to be a healing / tank Templar;

ZOS haven't clearly defined roles;

Even in trials, in several boss fights, a META group should have healers and tanks that DPS, and utility DPS that drop things like negates, veils, horns or what have you.

S1ipperyJim

Vorcil wrote: »

People can be all three roles;
ZOS haven't clearly defined roles;

Nope, so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start

AntMan100673

In vet content if you're using activity finder then yes you should only queue as your real role.

But in normal dungeons who cares? I'm a squishy magicka dps and half the time I do random normal dungeons both the tank and healer are clearly dps. I usually end up dishing out the most damage so get the bosses focusing on me making me the tank, without a healer I also end up having to keep myself alive while still providing my fair share of the damage. We still fly through the dungeon without any trouble.

The way I look at it the dps' queuing as the wrong role get me in a group quicker and the time saved from not having to queue for as long more than makes up for the small increase in the time the dungeon takes.

The only problem is the reason they're doing it. If they're a competent dps and are doing it to get a group quicker then fine. If they're doing it because they're just trying to get a group quicker and get carried then it's a problem because they'll end up doing the same with vet dungeons where it's far less likely to work and just leave everyone annoyed

DocFrost72

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

People can be all three roles;
ZOS haven't clearly defined roles;

Nope, so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start

He's right about at least one thing.

My magicka sorc has level 50 restoration, destruction, OH&S, light armor and Heavy armor. I have three sets of gear on my person. I can Queue as all three, then whatever the queue tells me the group needs, I simply switch sets and skills.

I could even see healing and tanking, or healing and DPS together with twilight matriarch and good old hardened ward.

While you cannot be all three roles at once, you most certainly can be two at once (if good enough), and any role at all with proper planning.

And for the record, ZOS did an absolute **** job of defining the roles. It's why we have so many DPS in heavy armor sword and shield.

Iselin

AntMan100673 wrote: »

In vet content if you're using activity finder then yes you should only queue as your real role.

But in normal dungeons who cares? I'm a squishy magicka dps and half the time I do random normal dungeons both the tank and healer are clearly dps. I usually end up dishing out the most damage so get the bosses focusing on me making me the tank, without a healer I also end up having to keep myself alive while still providing my fair share of the damage. We still fly through the dungeon without any trouble.

The way I look at it the dps' queuing as the wrong role get me in a group quicker and the time saved from not having to queue for as long more than makes up for the small increase in the time the dungeon takes.

The only problem is the reason they're doing it. If they're a competent dps and are doing it to get a group quicker then fine. If they're doing it because they're just trying to get a group quicker and get carried then it's a problem because they'll end up doing the same with vet dungeons where it's far less likely to work and just leave everyone annoyed

It has nothing to do with vet/normal or competent/incompetent. It has to do with most people queuing for a role they can do or can quickly switch skills and gear in order to be able to do and other people, like you, gaming the system to get an advantage in how quickly the queue pops for you relative to the honest folk.

We're not talkning about 4 guys deciding they're all going to go DPS and do a dungeon run together. In that case everyone agrees and decides that this is what they're going to do... more power to them.

But doing it in the LFG PUG tool, like I already said, is a selfish thing to do and lame rationalizations don't make it less so.

skiptomyluau

At least I usually get kicked/disbanded before I have a chance to travel to the dungeon. Saves time that way

EvilCroc

I was brew-levelling my DK-healer yesterday. nICP. 1st queued tank was fake. We kicked him. Second one was high cp. Fake again. Didn't want to quit. I leaved by myself, cuz they was able to do nICP in 3dd, but not with low level DK-healer. But ok, that's just me, playing with alts. But what supposed to do a new player, who has single character and wants to play his first dungeons in normal 3-role party? I will vote to kick any fake tanks with all my chars, even if we will able to do 3dd. Just on principle. Nothing personal.

VoidBlue

Vorcil wrote: »

VoidBlue wrote: »

You should only be able to que as one and only one.

Than not be able to change it until you're out of a group.


@ZOS_GinaBruno

People can be all three roles;

In other MMOs and this MMO it is possible to be a healing / dps NB, it is possible to be a healing / tank Templar;

ZOS haven't clearly defined roles;

Even in trials, in several boss fights, a META group should have healers and tanks that DPS, and utility DPS that drop things like negates, veils, horns or what have you.

Yea and they can decide that while in the dungeon.

But before that, they should pick one role they wanna run as during the que and stick to it. Unless like I said while in the dungeon all group members agree to switch roles, via switching out equipment and skills.

whyterose

It is things like this happening, yes its happened to me as well, is why I am not playing the game much anymore. I am tired of wasting my time with people like this, and am playing other games with less frustration.

S1ipperyJim

EvilCroc wrote: »

I will vote to kick any fake tanks with all my chars, even if we will able to do 3dd. Just on principle. Nothing personal.

I understand the feeling. I joined a vet dungeon the other day where the final boss definitely needs to be tanked, however our "Tank" turned out to be a light armor wearing destro staff user with no taunt.

DocFrost72

VoidBlue wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

VoidBlue wrote: »

You should only be able to que as one and only one.

Than not be able to change it until you're out of a group.


@ZOS_GinaBruno

People can be all three roles;

In other MMOs and this MMO it is possible to be a healing / dps NB, it is possible to be a healing / tank Templar;

ZOS haven't clearly defined roles;

Even in trials, in several boss fights, a META group should have healers and tanks that DPS, and utility DPS that drop things like negates, veils, horns or what have you.

Yea and they can decide that while in the dungeon.

But before that, they should pick one role they wanna run as during the que and stick to it. Unless like I said while in the dungeon all group members agree to switch roles, via switching out equipment and skills.

@VoidBlue And if they can be all three? Just to take your suggestion and create an example-

My toon has three different gear setups, and three different skill bar setups. All corresponding skill lines at level 50. I have the capacity to do any of the three roles with two clicks (thank the divines for Outfitter).

Why should I only Queue as healer, when I can queue as all three, get into a group, and be instructed by the group finder to be (for example) tank?

The solution is even simpler than you're making it out to be. There is a vote to kick feature.

abigfishy

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Tank role needs to have a feature that requires a shield equipped or level 50 in S&B. Too many humans out there thinking thier stam sorc can sponge a 22k flurry from the overfiend.

I play a 2H Hvy Armour Nord DK Tank and while I don't think I am good enough for trials I have done all the standard dungoens and the vet versions of the easy ones. Maybe I do place a little more strain on the healer but I feel like I have taunts for days, fair damage mitigation, great CC and contribute a little to the DPS of the group. I would feel sad if the game said that you cannot tank if you don't have 1H+S.

Oddest tank I have ever been paired with was a templar with a resto staff. Really strange combo but that guy was super hard to take down.

On the main topic I think getting a pop and then changing your role is dirty. It should lock once you are in the queue until the dungoen is finished unless your group has to requeue.

idk

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Tank role needs to have a feature that requires a shield equipped or level 50 in S&B. Too many humans out there thinking thier stam sorc can sponge a 22k flurry from the overfiend.

This should not be because many players can perform multiple roles on the same character.

However, it should not permit someone to deselect roles one the queue has popped so it is obvious.

More interesting was the morons that did not want to vote kick the guys since he clearly could not perform his role.

VoidBlue

DocFrost72 wrote: »

VoidBlue wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

VoidBlue wrote: »

You should only be able to que as one and only one.

Than not be able to change it until you're out of a group.


@ZOS_GinaBruno

People can be all three roles;

In other MMOs and this MMO it is possible to be a healing / dps NB, it is possible to be a healing / tank Templar;

ZOS haven't clearly defined roles;

Even in trials, in several boss fights, a META group should have healers and tanks that DPS, and utility DPS that drop things like negates, veils, horns or what have you.

Yea and they can decide that while in the dungeon.

But before that, they should pick one role they wanna run as during the que and stick to it. Unless like I said while in the dungeon all group members agree to switch roles, via switching out equipment and skills.

@VoidBlue And if they can be all three? Just to take your suggestion and create an example-

My toon has three different gear setups, and three different skill bar setups. All corresponding skill lines at level 50. I have the capacity to do any of the three roles with two clicks (thank the divines for Outfitter).

Why should I only Queue as healer, when I can queue as all three, get into a group, and be instructed by the group finder to be (for example) tank?

The solution is even simpler than you're making it out to be. There is a vote to kick feature.

If they can be all 3 then they better decide which one they want to play as for that dungeon then and stick to it for that dungeon unless decided by the group to switch it up.

Averya_Teira

itehache wrote: »

That's why I think the group finder tool should be changed. Nobody should be able to queue as a tank without a taunt on their skills, 1h & shield etc + nobody should be able to queue as a healer without heals equipped on them. I am a dd but I can queue as a healer if I wanted to, which doesn't make any sense.

That would require coding the group finder to check what items and skills you have.... You think very highly of ZOS programmers lol.....

idk

Averya_Teira wrote: »

itehache wrote: »

That's why I think the group finder tool should be changed. Nobody should be able to queue as a tank without a taunt on their skills, 1h & shield etc + nobody should be able to queue as a healer without heals equipped on them. I am a dd but I can queue as a healer if I wanted to, which doesn't make any sense.

That would require coding the group finder to check what items and skills you have.... You think very highly of ZOS programmers lol.....

Just because someone has S&B in their inventory does not mean they are setup to use it. The requirements for the game to determine if a character is capable of tanking a 4 man dungeon would be to complicated to properly implement with the overall design of this game.

Cryptical

Iselin wrote: »

So I had a random normal dungeon pop for my healer yesterday and it was ICP. It's very rare that I'm actually not doing anything at all when the dungeon pops so if I actually look at who's who on the group panel, I typically don't do it until I'm already at the dungeon.

But this time I wasn't doing anything other than reading guild chat and it was ICP after all so I did look immediately at the group screen. This is when I noticed a level 30ish NB who had queued for all 3 roles and while I was watching, he de-selected the healer and tank roles and presto, the group now has no tank, just 3 DPS and me.

When I saw that I said innocently in group chat "No tank role assigned in the group" to which this little weasel who shall not be named said "yeah the group finder screws up like that sometimes"... trap sprung... "Well maybe... but this time I watched as you turned off healer and tank from your roles. It wasn't the group finder, it was you. Do you even have 1HD+S and any taunts trained?" ... "No... let's just try it"... "Yeah well...No"

This is when I started the vote to kick him and it failed... so I left wishing them good luck

Ahhhhhh... This explains what I thought were bugs yesterday.

I and a guildmate were grouped and queuing for random normals to grind his lowbie, and the group finder kept putting the crown onto a dps.

Now it seems likely that they had queued for all roles and just jumped the line.

Perhaps a recording would be good.

LordGavus

As mentioned above, if someone is selecting all roles and then picking one to suit the group, and able to perform that role. I don't have a problem with it.
However, in my experience that is very rare. Its usually just queue jumpers.
I've ended up in a few pugs where everyone was a multi role, but no one was healing. When asked who is healing the response was excuses and 'I left my restro staff in the bank'

In normal dungeons this is fine as you can solo or man everything, but doing this shenanigans in vet dungeon pugs is not cool.

I would prefer it if you could only select one role. If you can off heal or off tank that's fine, but just queue for your main role.