The reason IC sewers don't have pvp

Bandit1215

I just had the realization that the reason nobody ends up pvping in IC sewers is because there is no risk = reward. As it stands, there is no incentive to go to the other alliances zones unless you are specifically looking to pvp. I think an idea to make players engage in combat with each other, would be to give a bonus for farming in another alliances area. This would create an important decision the player has to make, and encourage making small grouos to run with so you can defemd yourself while farming. The player would either:
1. Have to farm with the normal amount of tel var in their zone, and be safe
2. Venture into enemy territory to get better loot/more tel var, but get attacked by the enemy more often in their zone.
Before the pve guys start whining to the pvp guys about how it would ruin the pve by making them pvp, I want to remind you that it is the ONLY pvp dlc, and only one of TWO PVP RELATED CONTENT UPDATES so far (the other being dueling).

alexkdd99

Or just pvp if you want to and don't if you don't want to. Don't see how a change is needed, they updated ic with capture the flag and other crap and still nobody likes it. This would more than likely just be wasted time.

billp_ESO

One of the best methods to encourage PvP is to place some unique mats in a PvP zone, and let the factions fight over them.

For example, to make the absolute best sword in the game, you need Infinium metal, which is only found in a PvP zone.

Astanphaeus

The reason no there is no PvP in the sewers is because barely anyone goes there. PvPrs consider it PvE content an PvEers consider it PvP content. It is just poorly made in general without any consideration for who the player base would be.

Katahdin

The upper city gives more TV stones per mob kill than the sewars. If they gave the same, more people would be down there.

Peekachu99

billp_ESO wrote: »

One of the best methods to encourage PvP is to place some unique mats in a PvP zone, and let the factions fight over them.

For example, to make the absolute best sword in the game, you need Infinium metal, which is only found in a PvP zone.

This would make the PVE-only crowd flood the forums with endless tears. I don't mind when they do this in games, though, incentivizes PVP for PVPers and gives them a reward they can trade to the PVE crowd (we kinda have that with Black Rose, Reactive and Hakeijo sales).

Stopnaggin

Peekachu99 wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

One of the best methods to encourage PvP is to place some unique mats in a PvP zone, and let the factions fight over them.

For example, to make the absolute best sword in the game, you need Infinium metal, which is only found in a PvP zone.

This would make the PVE-only crowd flood the forums with endless tears. I don't mind when they do this in games, though, incentivizes PVP for PVPers and gives them a reward they can trade to the PVE crowd (we kinda have that with Black Rose, Reactive and Hakeijo sales).

Why would it make the pve crowd cry? I assume because pvpers were crying about mats and such? I don't pvers crying about the golden vendor, akvari motif. I'm no pvp guy, I go in from time to time but nothing special to me. As a matter of fact I'm one of the pve crowd that defends the pvp crowd, especially when they complain about vigor, warhorse and caltrops.

I wouldn't go as far as something beat in game being locked behind pvp, add in something comparable to vMA or master weapons would be fine. How many of you pvpers really want a bunch of pve players in your instances anyway?

ArchMikem

What's your definition of PvP?

My runs into the Sewers usually always ends up with me and my guildmates getting ganked in our own section by some tryhard. There's no conventional conflict because of the sheer amounts of Daedra to fight through, which only serves to breed more Ganking mentality. No such thing as straight up fights.

Gilvoth

thats why i suggested making a prison in eso.
this way we allways escape through the sewers to get back into the cities and get home.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/117602/prison-added-to-justice-system-good-day-sir/p1

vamp_emily

I really wish they would make ganking in IC a little more risky. Every ganker I ganked never has any stones, but they sure make a living off ganking me.

I like the idea someone suggested a while back: Gankers should only be able to gank the amount of stones they are currently holding.

reiverx

I always wondered if they made an IC event where you don't lose tel-var, just how much the population would increase.

ArchMikem

reiverx wrote: »

I always wondered if they made an IC event where you don't lose tel-var, just how much the population would increase.

The population may actually decrease, as it would remove the number one incentive for most PVPlayers to even be there, (as they farm other players for stones). But then that would just give more security to PvE players that want to farm the Daedra and Key Shards for the vaults, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

Acrolas

It's time to give IC the OT makeover. Meaning you can PVP if you flag yourself for it, but you can also team up with members of other alliances to hunt Daedra and do bosses without getting slaughtered after you get them down to 5% health. No more sharing Cyrodiil's population. Beautiful zone, but really has no correlation to the land and power play of Cyrodiil because you can be emperor without controlling IC.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

The only thing missing from IC is that it has nothing to do with the overall faction score. You can't help the team down there.

Otherwise I love it, but that's why I go there infrequently.

exeeter702

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

One of the best methods to encourage PvP is to place some unique mats in a PvP zone, and let the factions fight over them.

For example, to make the absolute best sword in the game, you need Infinium metal, which is only found in a PvP zone.

This would make the PVE-only crowd flood the forums with endless tears. I don't mind when they do this in games, though, incentivizes PVP for PVPers and gives them a reward they can trade to the PVE crowd (we kinda have that with Black Rose, Reactive and Hakeijo sales).

Why would it make the pve crowd cry? I assume because pvpers were crying about mats and such? I don't pvers crying about the golden vendor, akvari motif. I'm no pvp guy, I go in from time to time but nothing special to me. As a matter of fact I'm one of the pve crowd that defends the pvp crowd, especially when they complain about vigor, warhorse and caltrops.

I wouldn't go as far as something beat in game being locked behind pvp, add in something comparable to vMA or master weapons would be fine. How many of you pvpers really want a bunch of pve players in your instances anyway?

The gold vendor does not sell exclusive items unobtainable anywhere else and the akivari morif is a cosmetic / vanity object. All exclusively obtained gear in IC has little benefit outside of pvp, and even if you could make certain pvp obtained sets work in pve, there are plenty of comparable and superior sets for pve obtained elsewhere.

This is basic mmo item design logic. Its why there are strong pve set bonuses like minor slayer tied to end game pve activities. What you are suggesting is that zos provides a best in slot power gain applicable to all activites in the game, and exclusively place it in a pvp zone.

I wont get into the mess that is IC. But to put it plainly, as long as IC is paid content and not a part of the core game, nothing obtained in there can be definitely better than what can otherwise be obtained elsewhere.

Stopnaggin

exeeter702 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

One of the best methods to encourage PvP is to place some unique mats in a PvP zone, and let the factions fight over them.

For example, to make the absolute best sword in the game, you need Infinium metal, which is only found in a PvP zone.

This would make the PVE-only crowd flood the forums with endless tears. I don't mind when they do this in games, though, incentivizes PVP for PVPers and gives them a reward they can trade to the PVE crowd (we kinda have that with Black Rose, Reactive and Hakeijo sales).

Why would it make the pve crowd cry? I assume because pvpers were crying about mats and such? I don't pvers crying about the golden vendor, akvari motif. I'm no pvp guy, I go in from time to time but nothing special to me. As a matter of fact I'm one of the pve crowd that defends the pvp crowd, especially when they complain about vigor, warhorse and caltrops.

I wouldn't go as far as something beat in game being locked behind pvp, add in something comparable to vMA or master weapons would be fine. How many of you pvpers really want a bunch of pve players in your instances anyway?

The gold vendor does not sell exclusive items unobtainable anywhere else and the akivari morif is a cosmetic / vanity object. All exclusively obtained gear in IC has little benefit outside of pvp, and even if you could make certain pvp obtained sets work in pve, there are plenty of comparable and superior sets for pve obtained elsewhere.

This is basic mmo item design logic. Its why there are strong pve set bonuses like minor slayer tied to end game pve activities. What you are suggesting is that zos provides a best in slot power gain applicable to all activites in the game, and exclusively place it in a pvp zone.

I wont get into the mess that is IC. But to put it plainly, as long as IC is paid content and not a part of the core game, nothing obtained in there can be definitely better than what can otherwise be obtained elsewhere.

Had you read my post I said no to adding anything better in pvp, I said equal, I'm not one of those that will blindly skip over the fact that pvpers have to pve way more than the other way around.

Astanphaeus

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

One of the best methods to encourage PvP is to place some unique mats in a PvP zone, and let the factions fight over them.

For example, to make the absolute best sword in the game, you need Infinium metal, which is only found in a PvP zone.

This would make the PVE-only crowd flood the forums with endless tears. I don't mind when they do this in games, though, incentivizes PVP for PVPers and gives them a reward they can trade to the PVE crowd (we kinda have that with Black Rose, Reactive and Hakeijo sales).

Why would it make the pve crowd cry? I assume because pvpers were crying about mats and such? I don't pvers crying about the golden vendor, akvari motif. I'm no pvp guy, I go in from time to time but nothing special to me. As a matter of fact I'm one of the pve crowd that defends the pvp crowd, especially when they complain about vigor, warhorse and caltrops.

I wouldn't go as far as something beat in game being locked behind pvp, add in something comparable to vMA or master weapons would be fine. How many of you pvpers really want a bunch of pve players in your instances anyway?

PvEers actually do cry about the Golden vendor fairly frequently, which is silly considering they can take advantage of it too without ever having to PvP. It is true that I have never heard of them cry about the Akaviri motif, but I think that is probably just because it is ugly and few people wear crafted armor. If you really want to see PvE crying though, just look at Cyrodiil Skyshards or Vigor. That is where you can really get their tears flowing.

NewBlacksmurf

If you do this....being honest...you'll also encourage people like me to never come back.

I only want PvE experiences so ...for me its a big risk always
If it were to change, the risk is bigger so while I follow your thoughts, in the end the risk isn't greater in another alliance because there are others there...so the risk overall is still a risk so i'd argue why should only one side get the bonus?

So then ppl just play on the other sides....kinda defeats the point IMO

If you want to cchange the thing to make it make sense

IMO this is what is needs

The results of keeps in Cyrodil win IC sewers and overland
IC would not be a campaign but accessible by your assigned campaign.

This means, if a campaign wins X amount of keeps, they win access to IC outside of the campaign for 4 hours.
This means anyone inside of IC is at risk on a change of faction control.

To go there, you simple travel to the wayshrine above or in the sewers from any PvP or PvE wayshrine and play.
while you have control the TV multiplier is tripled
neutral is normal and partial keeps is double


Thats my thoughts but....hey ZOS did something waaay crazy.
and tried to charge for the content instead of including it as it was the rest of PvP they didnt finish

ookami007

billp_ESO wrote: »

One of the best methods to encourage PvP is to place some unique mats in a PvP zone, and let the factions fight over them.

For example, to make the absolute best sword in the game, you need Infinium metal, which is only found in a PvP zone.

Put some unobtainium guarded by some big blue people and the faction has to wipe them out to get it, but they can use an earring to polymorph into their shape and then get to know the natives and possibly befriend them...

...or has that been done before?

Jaronking

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If you do this....being honest...you'll also encourage people like me to never come back.

I only want PvE experiences so ...for me its a big risk always
If it were to change, the risk is bigger so while I follow your thoughts, in the end the risk isn't greater in another alliance because there are others there...so the risk overall is still a risk so i'd argue why should only one side get the bonus?

So then ppl just play on the other sides....kinda defeats the point IMO

If you want to cchange the thing to make it make sense

IMO this is what is needs

The results of keeps in Cyrodil win IC sewers and overland
IC would not be a campaign but accessible by your assigned campaign.

This means, if a campaign wins X amount of keeps, they win access to IC outside of the campaign for 4 hours.
This means anyone inside of IC is at risk on a change of faction control.

To go there, you simple travel to the wayshrine above or in the sewers from any PvP or PvE wayshrine and play.
while you have control the TV multiplier is tripled
neutral is normal and partial keeps is double


Thats my thoughts but....hey ZOS did something waaay crazy.
and tried to charge for the content instead of including it as it was the rest of PvP they didnt finish

Pvpers asked for this when if came out is only faction who control the inner keeps get access to the sewers.PVErs complain and got that changed so now we have the mess we have now.

Stopnaggin

Astanphaeus wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

One of the best methods to encourage PvP is to place some unique mats in a PvP zone, and let the factions fight over them.

For example, to make the absolute best sword in the game, you need Infinium metal, which is only found in a PvP zone.

This would make the PVE-only crowd flood the forums with endless tears. I don't mind when they do this in games, though, incentivizes PVP for PVPers and gives them a reward they can trade to the PVE crowd (we kinda have that with Black Rose, Reactive and Hakeijo sales).

Why would it make the pve crowd cry? I assume because pvpers were crying about mats and such? I don't pvers crying about the golden vendor, akvari motif. I'm no pvp guy, I go in from time to time but nothing special to me. As a matter of fact I'm one of the pve crowd that defends the pvp crowd, especially when they complain about vigor, warhorse and caltrops.

I wouldn't go as far as something beat in game being locked behind pvp, add in something comparable to vMA or master weapons would be fine. How many of you pvpers really want a bunch of pve players in your instances anyway?

PvEers actually do cry about the Golden vendor fairly frequently, which is silly considering they can take advantage of it too without ever having to PvP. It is true that I have never heard of them cry about the Akaviri motif, but I think that is probably just because it is ugly and few people wear crafted armor. If you really want to see PvE crying though, just look at Cyrodiil Skyshards or Vigor. That is where you can really get their tears flowing.

And I still will defend pvp to this end. Alot less for a pve guy in cyrodiil, I and many others have defended those very points against changing it to an instanced campaign. Mostly the one crying are the newer want everything easy crowd. You get those both in pvp and pve. The skyshards and skills are the big complaints from pve, while sets and upgrade mats are the big ones from PvP.

NewBlacksmurf

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If you do this....being honest...you'll also encourage people like me to never come back.

I only want PvE experiences so ...for me its a big risk always
If it were to change, the risk is bigger so while I follow your thoughts, in the end the risk isn't greater in another alliance because there are others there...so the risk overall is still a risk so i'd argue why should only one side get the bonus?

So then ppl just play on the other sides....kinda defeats the point IMO

If you want to cchange the thing to make it make sense

IMO this is what is needs

The results of keeps in Cyrodil win IC sewers and overland
IC would not be a campaign but accessible by your assigned campaign.

This means, if a campaign wins X amount of keeps, they win access to IC outside of the campaign for 4 hours.
This means anyone inside of IC is at risk on a change of faction control.

To go there, you simple travel to the wayshrine above or in the sewers from any PvP or PvE wayshrine and play.
while you have control the TV multiplier is tripled
neutral is normal and partial keeps is double


Thats my thoughts but....hey ZOS did something waaay crazy.
and tried to charge for the content instead of including it as it was the rest of PvP they didnt finish

Pvpers asked for this when if came out is only faction who control the inner keeps get access to the sewers.PVErs complain and got that changed so now we have the mess we have now.

@Jaronking

No actually it wasn't the PvE'rs, It was customers overall who said they shouldn't have to pay for content that is only contingent upon the results of a campaign. That overall idea shouldn't cause anyone to conclude that it was PvE'ers who complained but instead """"Paying customer"""" who complained. Possibly a similar influence that existed as the removal of a required subscription was high and this was the first DLC to be added.

Ever since closed BETA and prior to console launch, there was hype around.....the center of Cyrodil.
There are those who came from Dark Age of Camelot who hoped this would be some what like Darkness Falls
[http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Darkness_Falls]

So we go Trials of Craglorn....and the PvE crowd was pleased up until they started raising VR levels (a whole diff. thread)

Next was believed to be Murkmire, and all that stuff show but Imperial City was in that idea of what next.


So....here is the issue, people since release complained about Cyrodil.
Ppl go in an uproar about Cyrodil when they changed VR difficulty
PPL went even further when they kept increasing VR levels with no content
Then they removed the sub and added crown store stuff...
....they added CP with no caps at all.....

Now they tried to charge for unfinished PvP zone and call it DLC.
Even worse, the map is highly favored for certain factions in keeps and the campaigns made absolutely no sense to limit ppl on PTS cause the arguments are as such.

1. Why charge for content you can't control if you get access to
2. Cant change factions (still cant) so why are you forcing this and gating it as paid content
3. Why do i have to join both the campaign and be on during a win to get into IC

By design its done all wrong
I really think it should be a zone no different than any other faction zone (prior to One Tamriel) with only having a basic keeps access set. This still needs to address how campaigns limit players tho so in my other posts....I suggested to make both Cyrodil and IC a faction based PvE zone and the campaigns should be queue...accomplish keeps, or what not and then reset every few hours.

Just my thoughts on it all.....somewhat biased tho cause I don't feel its the results of a PvE crowd at all. Its a much larger group complicated by the sub, crown and PvP issues. It could be argued that the PvP crowd had just as much input at least on PTS....cause they offered more input

Solariken

The sewers should be a capture the flag zone. Each alliance should have a scroll that gives a bonus to tel var gains. If you own 2 scrolls, you get a bigger bonus to TV gains while held. If you own all 3 scrolls you get a very nice bonus to TV and AP gains.

But even better, it could be smear-the-***** style where a player has to physically hold it for the alliance members to get a bonus, and you drop it if you die or zone out.

Scroll hunting in the sewers would be hella fun @ZOS_BrianWheeler!

NewBlacksmurf

Solariken wrote: »

The sewers should be a capture the flag zone. Each alliance should have a scroll that gives a bonus to tel var gains. If you own 2 scrolls, you get a bigger bonus to TV gains while held. If you own all 3 scrolls you get a very nice bonus to TV and AP gains.

But even better, it could be smear-the-***** style where a player has to physically hold it for the alliance members to get a bonus, and you drop it if you die or zone out.

Scroll hunting in the sewers would be hella fun @ZOS_BrianWheeler!

I don't agree that it should be just that.
I do agree that this would make an insterestimg campaign but that means all the other stuff would need to be blocked off

luen79rwb17_ESO

I rarely go to IC Sewers and only to grind XP. I could care less about the PVP or the TV stones anymore. Even IC chests are useless now.

Egonieser

I think a lot of people forget that one of the reasons IC is more empty is because it's a DLC zone (for which you have to PAY by either buying it outright or subscribe). It's small and doesn't really hold all that much content to be appealing compared to something like Orsinium.
Newcomers might not be interested in it, diehard PvP fans often don't bother with it as Cyrodiil itself is free and don't see a reason to purchase it or subscribe specifically for it when the crux of PvP is only in Cyrodiil.

It's time they added IC as a free zone, that would solve the population problems in it.

Unsent.Soul

Egonieser wrote: »

I think a lot of people forget that one of the reasons IC is more empty is because it's a DLC zone (for which you have to PAY by either buying it outright or subscribe). It's small and doesn't really hold all that much content to be appealing compared to something like Orsinium.
Newcomers might not be interested in it, diehard PvP fans often don't bother with it as Cyrodiil itself is free and don't see a reason to purchase it or subscribe specifically for it when the crux of PvP is only in Cyrodiil.

It's time they added IC as a free zone, that would solve the population problems in it.

No lol. Just spit in the faces of everyone who DID pay for it? That makes sense.

Stopnaggin

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

I think a lot of people forget that one of the reasons IC is more empty is because it's a DLC zone (for which you have to PAY by either buying it outright or subscribe). It's small and doesn't really hold all that much content to be appealing compared to something like Orsinium.
Newcomers might not be interested in it, diehard PvP fans often don't bother with it as Cyrodiil itself is free and don't see a reason to purchase it or subscribe specifically for it when the crux of PvP is only in Cyrodiil.

It's time they added IC as a free zone, that would solve the population problems in it.

No lol. Just spit in the faces of everyone who DID pay for it? That makes sense.

I could see if they offered some sort of compensation for those that actually bought it. But yeah I'm with you on that one, people spent the money, don't start giving away stuff that has been bought and paid for.

helediron

ZOS should remove every trace of PvE from IC, and redesign it exclusively for PvP. Everything PvE-related is duplicated in other areas. As a PvE player I can hand it over to whatever PvP fun it could be rehauled. It IS Cyro after all.

Unsent.Soul

1 idea I've had.

Bring back the telvar event, a schedule, so it's a common event, like every 2 weekends or 1 weekend and 1 week in a month, maybe just 2 full weeks a month?

Now, we have to have something to spend tel var on, so farming for it is meaningful.

Tel var crafting sachels, name it whatever they want.

5 different types, 1 for enchanting, clothing, woodworking, blacksmith, provisioning.

These sachels will guarantee a small amount of raw mats, 3-10? Or none. Add a small chance at obtaining either green/blue/purple/yellow upgrading materials, yellow being the most rare, maybe same chance as refining 10 ore?

That layout would work for wood/cloth/smithing/enchanting (minus raw mats)

Make provisioning similar to the alchemical sarchels but include the chance for the 2 purple food ingredients, maybe a recipe or two of blue/purple rarity.

Just an idea, anything anyone wants to add to that feel free, simply put there needs to be a reason for IC and tel var.