ESO and Harassment

pattyLtd

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

Only once i've been in a situation where i felt very uncomfortable to the point that i ended up deciding not to play that part of the game for a while just to avoid this person. Block/ignore didn't help in the slightest.

My block/ignore list is empty and people that say theirs are full are most likely the ones that send stupid flame messages in pvp and then get mad for the response they get to it, however that's not harrassment not even close IMO.

So people that actually use the function the way its intended MUST be bringing it on themselves because your anecdotal experience was opposite of theirs?

@Korah_Eaglecry

No, i didnt mean it like that bit got triggered because the most here seem to think OP is referring to situation where people send "you suck" messages while there are really messed up people playing this game that do real disturbing things.

I wont go into detail as it serves no point i admit assuning why others block/ignore people was wrong but i tried to point out block doesn't always work. Calling my experience anecdotal isn't much better though.

Azuramoonstar

i find it funny how you can spot and mmo newbie in these threads.

Azuramoonstar

Riejael wrote: »

I have played MMORPGs for 15 years. I've seen some great people, and I've seen some disgusting people. But in that time I think I've only ever been stalked once. When I say stalked, I mean where I actually had to have Customer Service intervene and warn/suspend/ban them. I dunno what happened to them, but they stopped it.

That was back in 2005.

I've had disagreements, fights, arguments, and all the good stuff over the years. I've put people on ignore on occasion and sometimes had to talk to guild leadership about players' actions.

From what I've gathered, harassment isn't rampant. I think what many players are experiencing is getting far too personal with random strangers on the internet. Game or not.. that can be.. annoying at best.. and dangerous at its worst. One thing I've learned in the past 15 years is to keep a certain level of detachment when dealing with online players.

This means keeping personal info and activities to yourself. This doesn't just mean keeping your email address, street address, and such to yourself. But your life experiences as well. Don't tell some person who has been on your friend list about a fight you had with your sister, or your financial status or anything like that. Maybe even keep political/religious beliefs to yourself.

This isn't to say you can't make close friends on the internet. I've got a few who I damn near count as 'regular friends' because we've known each other for over a decade. You can make real friendships and even romantic relationships in some cases. But you've got to be careful. You've got to guard yourself and use personal discipline and vigilance to protect yourself.

I've not had to put someone on ignore in probably two years by following this philosophy.

Someone above say its not right to put the burden on the victims. In most cases they are right. But I've had too many friends and acquaintances who run into harassment issues over and over. This isn't to say they are looking for it, or hanging around the wrong sorts of people. But lets just say, the way they open themselves up to others online tends to attract some ugly people.

If you find yourself being stalked or harassed and it happens a bit too often to be random happenstance. You might want to consider how you are speaking to others. What personal details you're giving out. Hell sometimes you need to keep your gender ambiguous in some groups. That goes for guys as well as girls (I've seen guys get harassed in other games, especially in RP circles).

Understand this isn't foolproof, there ARE going to be creeps out there. Like in my example back in 2005, I had some chick stalking me in WoW. She was cool at first, did some quests, I think maybe a dungeon or two. But she became unrattled when I was questing with a friend of her's when she was offline. Thought I was trying to steal her GF or somesuch. Yeah.. what she thought was a GF was actually a guy and he had no idea wtf she was yammering about. Ending up putting her on ignore and she made new characters to badger me and tried to follow me around. Eventually I just put a ticket in and got some action taken against her. Really weird and I'm leaving a ton of details out because this girl had some real problems, some of which not appropriate for this forum.

Still had that issue despite keeping a normally detached stance. Never got personal with said person, but she sure as hell said alot of stuff about herself. I guess that was a warning sign I didn't see back then. Random or semi-random stranger opens their life story to you after only knowing you online for a day or two.. might be a surefire indication of an estranged individual.

Which sucks because some of us are good people and simply don't want to turn away someone. But like I said, you got to protect yourself online. Its not worth the frustration or embarrassment in some cases.

As far as the garbage in general/zone chats. Got to have a thick skin. Its a PITA to monitor or review a chat where hundreds of players are scrolling it a few hundred lines a minute. Don't worry about some fool on a soapbox. However if they send you a hateful prejudicial whisper/tell/PM, then by all means report them. Bringing up a lit of tells or whispers you've received is easy.

Little story about some of that. The trolls in zone chat are to be pitied. They really are. When I was playing Everquest about a year and a half ago on the newer Vox server. There was a troll that used to try and rile people up. Day after day he would do this. He'd say EQ sucked and other inane stuff saying other games were better. Obvious troll basically.

There was one day were he was particularly vocal. And I guess most people did actually ignore him because the responses were less and less. Eventually it got later in the evening and he started his BS again. No one responded. So he went a bit more heated with it. No one responded. He began typing more and more stuff into the chat, varying the topics ranging from the classes, to the server, to the game itself and other games and outside stuff. No one was taking the bait.

It literally looked like he was getting desperate. I was working up poison crafting on my rogue while in PoK while this guy was doing this and thought it was weird. But then he said something of the lines of "why isn't anyone talking to me?" That I really took notice. No one responded still, it was a bit later so there probably wasn't many on. And then he eventually said screw it and logged off. Normally you think such trolls don't care one way or another. But I think many of them do have attention issues. I'd almost felt bad for the guy. Almost. He made his choice. Let him live with it.

i had a stalking case in ff11, it was when treasures was out and some random joe i never met started to /tell or /whisper aka pm me things like "do you kick guys in the balls" for about 20 min this person would ask me if i enjoy kicking guys in the nuts. Every day i would log on and the same guy would ask me that question. Every time i block a character, he just made a new one. this went on for a month of me blocking and reporting each character. It got to the point where he started to make threats.

Things like "are you a guy?" "I bet your a guy." to humor him i said no. he would then spam me saying i was a liar. I blocked several more character to where my block list was full. Got to the point that he made more characters and made threats to ban me as he had s gm friend. (game mod) at this point i said f it, deleted the character and started fresh on another server.

Azuramoonstar

Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Here is a simple guide on how to stop "harrassment" in video games:

1. Suck it up and deal with it. Learn to handle situations like an adult instead of hiding from things you don't like.

I hope this advice has been helpful.

So victims of harassment are just children who need to suck it up? There's a name for what you're doing.

http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/avoiding-victim-blaming/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/10/the-psychology-of-victim-blaming/502661/

sjw alert.

As someone with social disabilities.. i agree with him. At times you do gotta suck it up, and be the bigger person and just block a brat. video game harassment is extremely mild. It isn't easy to ignore it, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

If you let even a mild child being a bad ass comment bug you.. how does that look?
I've had worst things in life happen to me, stuff in mmorpg are extremely mild to the shi i had to deal with irl.

as i stated some people like to play the villain

KochDerDamonen

Harassment? What don't you have the tools to deal with?

If someone sends you a stupid message after whatever [insert thing] occurs, don't respond to them if you don't want to talk about it. If you do and the conversation gets heated, you are just as guilty for how you feel.

If you try ignoring a person or telling them that you do not wish to speak with them and they pursue, block them. They can no longer interact with you directly.

If you ignore a person and they continue to harass, yes this is harassment I would say, you when you speak in zone or group chats amongst other people that alert you to their actions? Report this person, report them and if you see this being done to someone consider reporting that person yourself for being disruptive.

If any of the above and the person is being cruel: trying to reveal your actual name or where you live or any sort of real life information, relentlessly calling you names and trying to get at you through people connected to you? See above, block, report, ignore.


If someone pursues you outside of the game? absolutely harassment, report, block, based on the content of their speech (threatening your livelihood, that of your friends/relatives, trying to DOX you, etc) consider involving law enforcement.

Azuramoonstar

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Harassment? What don't you have the tools to deal with?

If someone sends you a stupid message after whatever [insert thing] occurs, don't respond to them if you don't want to talk about it. If you do and the conversation gets heated, you are just as guilty for how you feel.

If you try ignoring a person or telling them that you do not wish to speak with them and they pursue, block them. They can no longer interact with you directly.

If you ignore a person and they continue to harass, yes this is harassment I would say, you when you speak in zone or group chats amongst other people that alert you to their actions? Report this person, report them and if you see this being done to someone consider reporting that person yourself for being disruptive.

If any of the above and the person is being cruel: trying to reveal your actual name or where you live or any sort of real life information, relentlessly calling you names and trying to get at you through people connected to you? See above, block, report, ignore.


If someone pursues you outside of the game? absolutely harassment, report, block, based on the content of their speech (threatening your livelihood, that of your friends/relatives, trying to DOX you, etc) consider involving law enforcement.

i wish i can click agree, awesome and insightful at the same time.
too much win.

rootimus

Pallmor wrote: »

Hell, try out a game like Eve Online sometime, where harassment is not only the norm, it's actively encouraged.

Except in Eve, scamming isn't harassment, nor is <insert nullsec bloc of the week here> steamrolling as much of nullsec as they feel like conquering, nor is the New Order confiscating your mining equipment because you don't have a permit, nor is someone clearing out the corp hanger (guild bank) in a dozen stations because you were silly enough to give them access. It's a world more akin to Firefly than Carebear Land and much of the whining about it comes from people who don't, can't or refuse to understand the difference.

A more honest comparison would be between ESO and <insert another generic theme park-on-rails MMORPG here>. Even then, you need to filter out the people who don't know what harassment means and people who heard how bad it is in a given game because they heard it on the internet, in order to get a realistic picture.

Edit: an absconding word was re-captured and put back in its place.

SnuggleMePlease

mfw daddy ZoS doesn't step in

Junipus

I always wish that those who downplay harassment and its effects were subjected to the worst of it. Nothing impacts someone more than firsthand experience of having to deal with continuous disruption, abuse, threats and fear imposed by one or more people.

Alas, there will always be people who have no experience but intimate and detailed opinions based on nothing.

Dakrana_Thrazvoth

Some advices for play in peace :

Play offline in pvp (hatewhispers are extremely common here in cyrodiil, even time to time in pve).
Close your zonechat window, or make separate window for guilds, ect..
Be careful when you write in zonechat, guildchat, participate only if you have something usefull to write.
Don't participate to conflicts and trolls.
If someone send hatewhispers, add on ignore. (during one time, I answered to them something polite like : thank you for your feedback, or well played and have fun).
Never answer with insults to players who send hatewhispers. (Some of them had really strong ego with elistist mentallity, and love tryhard and gank many times others players with overpowered setup like viper + velidreth in pvp, or tell gossips for give a bad reputation).
.
I hope it help.

And about change name, zenimax should give us again the possibility to change the account name. I'd like to understand the reason why refuse it now.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

rootimus

Aerin wrote: »

If someone send hatewhispers, add on ignore. (during one time, I answered to them something polite like : thank you for your feedback, or well played and have fun).

LOL, yes! Nothing makes an *** sad like a complete lack of tears from their target. I remember this one time in Eve, where the leadership of an alliance (a formal group of corps (guilds)) managed to rip off billions in assets from their own members. When they gathered everyone on TS to disband the alliance and gloat about what they'd done, it got to the point where they were almost crying due to the lack of tears. That's what happens when people have a thick skin.

Aerin wrote: »

And about change name, zenimax should give us again the possibility to change the account name. I'd like to understand the reason why refuse it now.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

Account usernames should never have been exposed in the first place, for security reasons if nothing else. The chances of Zenimax actually addressing this are so remote that snowballs are more likely to be holding week-long parties in hell.

Kutsuu

Maybe I'm some kind of special case, but I've been playing MMOs nonstop since Vanilla EQ and have never been "harassed." I've put people on ignore lists when their messages annoyed me. At worst they've logged on another character to say something else and I ignored that too. None of my friends admit to being harassed, but maybe they're all survivors putting on a tough face. More likely, it's just not that prevalent like this thread tries to insinuate.

ZombieZig

News flash... ignore function broken secretly for months. You can still join lfg finder with them and comunicate again. Ive had a bug forum topic up for months. Even Gina acknowledged it... mind you i think shes hiding with her tail between her legs now with all the games glitches.

Topic is called "Ignore function impaired"

anitajoneb17_ESO

Kutsuu wrote: »

Maybe I'm some kind of special case, but I've been playing MMOs nonstop since Vanilla EQ and have never been "harassed." I've put people on ignore lists when their messages annoyed me. At worst they've logged on another character to say something else and I ignored that too. None of my friends admit to being harassed, but maybe they're all survivors putting on a tough face. More likely, it's just not that prevalent like this thread tries to insinuate.

You know, when it's raining, some people will go out like they always do, others will go out but with an umbrella, and others will find that going out is simply impossible. Yet the rain is the same for everyone.

While I wouldn't qualify anything I've encountered ingame as "harassment", I still consider *some* widespread behaviours and mentalities as very problematic. It isn't as traumatic as harassment would be, but it is diminishing the enjoyment of the game to a large extent. ZOS really has multiple standards when it comes to applying its "code of conduct" (both ingame and on the forums), and the absence of ingame masters is regrettable. I don't even dare reporting people anymore for fear of my standards not being ZOS' standards and be punished for abusive reporting.

As I already mentioned, I wish players would come together a bit stronger and call a**h****s for what they are, instead of hiding behind the usual "it's for fun" or "it's only a game".

MythicEmperor

Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Here is a simple guide on how to stop "harrassment" in video games:

1. Suck it up and deal with it. Learn to handle situations like an adult instead of hiding from things you don't like.

I hope this advice has been helpful.

So victims of harassment are just children who need to suck it up? There's a name for what you're doing.

http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/avoiding-victim-blaming/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/10/the-psychology-of-victim-blaming/502661/

The difference, blatantly obvious as it is, is that there is a difference between real life and ESO. In real life, harrassment is a problem. There is no ignore button. ESO, however, has this feature. Although I never use it, I can see its appeal. Do you really find name-calling in a video game to be a serious issue? "Victim-blaming"? This is an arrangement of colored pixels on a screen, not physical abuse. There are people in -real life- that deal with harassment. They suffer physical abuse every single day, yet you equate their torment to mere name-calling in a video game? The real problem here is the trivialization of real harassment. Comparing trolls in video games to abusive criminals does naught but falter movements against true abuse.

raglau

gbaker42 wrote: »

I am concerned with what im hearing in the community. I know of players getting relentlessly harassed in this game and even when reports are made not much seems to get done. People leave guilds to try and start over but that doesnt solve the problem. Now I hear ESO wont even allow a name change to get away from these toxic players.

Do not be overly concerned with what you *hear*. Remember that people only tend to pipe up when something is bothering them, happy players tend to just get on with the game.

My experience of the EU server community, since beta, is very positive. I don't think I've ever seen a cross word, let alone full on toxic behaviour, in game.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Pibbles wrote: »

My experience of the EU server community, since beta, is very positive. I don't think I've ever seen a cross word, let alone full on toxic behaviour, in game.

From what I read on these forums (take it with a grain of salt because that's "only forum") it seems the NA /PC community is far more conflictual / toxic than EU/PC. I can confirm that on EU/PC the vast majority of people are OK, or far above "OK", while of course the occasional troll is always around.

gard

I'm triggered just reading this.

rteezy

im still not sure how the IGNORE option, isnt enough for you special snowflakes..the emre presenc eof someone CANT be enough to annoy you or"harrass" you im sorry, but your "space" is confined to your OWN body (in this case your toons).