Hundings Rage/TBS/Spriggan/NMG useless for PVE/PVP

AAbrigo

I have read alot threads about whats the best PVE/PVP sets for stam NB and I have tried every option, but everytime I return to the Red Mountain/Viper option since the extra proc dmg is so often and cant really see how the other sets "100-300" more dmg per hit can keep up with 6000 from red mountain almost every 2 secs and 6000 every 4 secs from Viper.

They proc so often I think the other sets are useless.

Anyone with same or other opinions?

Gilliamtherogue

Whoever is telling you that RM/Viper are better than Hundings/NMG/TBS in PvE is feeding you some terrible information.

In PvP though, Viper is pretty unparalleled in terms of counterplay, making it way better than the sets. Red Mountain's low proc chance off of weapon attacks exclusively, makes it much less desired in both PvE and PvP.

Kram8ion

I have used all these sets and find them working really well
Although you can't play each set the same way

BackFreckle

first pvp/pve are two completly different things when it comes to sets and viability. second nmg spriggans and tbs are still really viable in pve in vertain situtations

AAbrigo

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that RM/Viper are better than Hundings/NMG/TBS in PvE is feeding you some terrible information.

In PvP though, Viper is pretty unparalleled in terms of counterplay, making it way better than the sets. Red Mountain's low proc chance off of weapon attacks exclusively, makes it much less desired in both PvE and PvP.

Well that is my experience and nobody has told me. Just seeing alot of build on those sets and cant really tell why, because I think they arent as good as RM/Viper.

Still think Red Mountain procs way more than the 10% chance it has and thats why the combination is so OP.

Would bet on that RM/Viper outperforms any of the sets in any order in a bloodspawn dps test. (Dont have a group to test it and since I am on ps4 its hard to tell)

AAbrigo

BackFreckle wrote: »

first pvp/pve are two completly different things when it comes to sets and viability. second nmg spriggans and tbs are still really viable in pve in vertain situtations

Yeah I know they are different

But still RM/Viper is still outperforming the other sets in PVP and PVE. Just some skills on your weapon bar you need to change.

GilGalad

AAbrigo wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that RM/Viper are better than Hundings/NMG/TBS in PvE is feeding you some terrible information.

In PvP though, Viper is pretty unparalleled in terms of counterplay, making it way better than the sets. Red Mountain's low proc chance off of weapon attacks exclusively, makes it much less desired in both PvE and PvP.

Well that is my experience and nobody has told me. Just seeing alot of build on those sets and cant really tell why, because I think they arent as good as RM/Viper.

Still think Red Mountain procs way more than the 10% chance it has and thats why the combination is so OP.

Would bet on that RM/Viper outperforms any of the sets in any order in a bloodspawn dps test. (Dont have a group to test it and since I am on ps4 its hard to tell)

I bet 1M gold against RM/Viper combination in terms of PVE DPS with a proper rotation. They might perform well if you just spam surprise attack but that's not how you deal dmg anyways.
Depending on the group support I would bet on TBS/NMG + 3vicious ophidian + 2 Kra'gh + MSA weapons. Anyone betting against me (PC EU)?

Asmael

If you have better PvE DPS with Viper/RM on sustained fights, I suggest you work on your rotation.

AAbrigo

Gil.Galad wrote: »

AAbrigo wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that RM/Viper are better than Hundings/NMG/TBS in PvE is feeding you some terrible information.

In PvP though, Viper is pretty unparalleled in terms of counterplay, making it way better than the sets. Red Mountain's low proc chance off of weapon attacks exclusively, makes it much less desired in both PvE and PvP.

Well that is my experience and nobody has told me. Just seeing alot of build on those sets and cant really tell why, because I think they arent as good as RM/Viper.

Still think Red Mountain procs way more than the 10% chance it has and thats why the combination is so OP.

Would bet on that RM/Viper outperforms any of the sets in any order in a bloodspawn dps test. (Dont have a group to test it and since I am on ps4 its hard to tell)

I bet 1M gold against RM/Viper combination in terms of PVE DPS with a proper rotation. They might perform well if you just spam surprise attack but that's not how you deal dmg anyways.
Depending on the group support I would bet on TBS/NMG + 3vicious ophidian + 2 Kra'gh + MSA weapons. Anyone betting against me (PC EU)?

Haha would love to see that. But why spam surprise attack? They will perform equal to other weapon abilities.

Btw if you should do a test, then the rotation needed to be the same and as for VO, I didnt mention that set because it has the bonus for trials/dungeons which no other set has. So unfair to compare with the others.

cjhhickman39

One thing to plan for is the nerf bat may be coming to a proc set on you soon,if the rumors are true.

GilGalad

AAbrigo wrote: »

Gil.Galad wrote: »

AAbrigo wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that RM/Viper are better than Hundings/NMG/TBS in PvE is feeding you some terrible information.

In PvP though, Viper is pretty unparalleled in terms of counterplay, making it way better than the sets. Red Mountain's low proc chance off of weapon attacks exclusively, makes it much less desired in both PvE and PvP.

Well that is my experience and nobody has told me. Just seeing alot of build on those sets and cant really tell why, because I think they arent as good as RM/Viper.

Still think Red Mountain procs way more than the 10% chance it has and thats why the combination is so OP.

Would bet on that RM/Viper outperforms any of the sets in any order in a bloodspawn dps test. (Dont have a group to test it and since I am on ps4 its hard to tell)

I bet 1M gold against RM/Viper combination in terms of PVE DPS with a proper rotation. They might perform well if you just spam surprise attack but that's not how you deal dmg anyways.
Depending on the group support I would bet on TBS/NMG + 3vicious ophidian + 2 Kra'gh + MSA weapons. Anyone betting against me (PC EU)?

Haha would love to see that. But why spam surprise attack? They will perform equal to other weapon abilities.

Btw if you should do a test, then the rotation needed to be the same and as for VO, I didnt mention that set because it has the bonus for trials/dungeons which no other set has. So unfair to compare with the others.

The lower your rotations DPS is, the higher will be your relative DPS increase by proc sets. Just spamming surprise attack will proc Viper on CD, while applying dots like poison injection or endless hail won't. Proc sets work so well in PVP because your rotation is usually a lot simpler, since you need the bar slots for utility and healing abilities.

Panth141

AAbrigo wrote: »

Gil.Galad wrote: »

AAbrigo wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that RM/Viper are better than Hundings/NMG/TBS in PvE is feeding you some terrible information.

In PvP though, Viper is pretty unparalleled in terms of counterplay, making it way better than the sets. Red Mountain's low proc chance off of weapon attacks exclusively, makes it much less desired in both PvE and PvP.

Well that is my experience and nobody has told me. Just seeing alot of build on those sets and cant really tell why, because I think they arent as good as RM/Viper.

Still think Red Mountain procs way more than the 10% chance it has and thats why the combination is so OP.

Would bet on that RM/Viper outperforms any of the sets in any order in a bloodspawn dps test. (Dont have a group to test it and since I am on ps4 its hard to tell)

I bet 1M gold against RM/Viper combination in terms of PVE DPS with a proper rotation. They might perform well if you just spam surprise attack but that's not how you deal dmg anyways.
Depending on the group support I would bet on TBS/NMG + 3vicious ophidian + 2 Kra'gh + MSA weapons. Anyone betting against me (PC EU)?

Haha would love to see that. But why spam surprise attack? They will perform equal to other weapon abilities.

Btw if you should do a test, then the rotation needed to be the same and as for VO, I didnt mention that set because it has the bonus for trials/dungeons which no other set has. So unfair to compare with the others.

The difference in VO vs 3 Agility really isn't that big - TBS/NMG + 3 Agility + 2 Kra'gh + vMA would still massively outparse a proc setup over the course of a full fight.

Kutsuu

Let's try using actual numbers instead of "feels," it always works out better.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/283129/red-mountain-new-stam-dps-meta/p1

Shader_Shibes

All these proc sets are just there to boost bad dd's

For vma though, they are nice.

lolo_01b16_ESO

The main difference between those proc sets and sets that provide a stat boost is, that proc sets will add a flat dps boost, while other sets will add a percentage boost. Let's assume viper adds 3k dps and tbs adds 10% (just imagined values for showing my point, but reallity shouldn't be far off)
This means if you do e.g. 15k dps viper will buff you to 18k while tbs buffs you to 16.5k making viper the better set in that situation. However, if you already do 40k dps, viper will only buff you to 43k while tbs buffs you to 44k.

So you see, the better you dps is, the worse proc sets become. This is the reason why you rarely see top guild use sets like viper when competing for leaderboards.
The main exception currently are some monster sets. If you put Grothdar on a mag dk or Illambris on a Sorc, the flat damage you get is that high, that currently noone has enough dps to make a percentage based buff better than those.

Kutsuu

I do really like Viper in VMA on my stamblade. Combined with Velidreth it makes some of the dangerous fights MUCH shorter and easier without having to dump ultimate.

Last I know, Andy S' 598k stamblade score was done with 5x viper 5x VO 2x Velidreth.

I'd think that stamsorc would see the best return from red mountain in VMA due to using mostly weapon abilities. I want to try it... but don't want to try the cost of attaining weapons lol.

Xvorg

Long time ago, there was a value on ESO... we called it "playing skill".

If you rely on procs sets while playing PvE, then your "playing skill" is rather low. I suggest you to try non proc sets to improve your rotation.

Proc sets probably will be nerfed in the coming patch, so it is a good idea to start working a new playing style.