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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
4 Reasons Not to Be a Stamina Templar (You Won't Believe #3!)
CylindricalBox
✭✭✭
With a prospective balance patch coming sometime in the near future, I've outlined some issues with Stamina Templar in this post, providing suggestions for improvement throughout (General Discussion section since this is very broad). While a Stamina Templar can certainly complete any and all content in this game, the class has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina. The class also struggles in PVP due to its limited utility and poor sustain.
#1 – Poor Active Skills
In terms of skills, Templar's options are too limited, and what little the class has is overshadowed by the other classes in almost every sense. The root of the problem is this: Templar just doesn't have enough by way of in-class Stamina utility. Just look at the class abilities you'll find on a typical end-game PVE Stamina DPS build's bars, sorted below by class:
Nightblade
So, the Stamina Templar really only has three in-class abilities that are worth slotting for most PVE scenarios: Biting Jabs, Power of the Light and Repentance. While there are plenty of universal skills to fill the remaining 8 or 9 slots, it's problematic that so many class skills are simply not useful in any content. Unfortunately, it's kind of the same story for PVP – the other classes just have more viable skills to choose from. Check it out:
Nightblade
Build diversity, especially viable weapon types in PVP, is seriously limited by how few in-class options Templar offers. Templar is the only class that must rely on outside sources for Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. And it goes much further than missing these fundamental buffs, as outlined by this ability-by-ability breakdown, sorted by class tree:
Aedric Spear
Dawn's Wrath
Restoring Light
I'd rather not delve into the class' passive skills because it's much of the same story. But even the valuable ones, like Balanced Warrior (6% Weapon Damage), are outclassed by passives like Nightblade's Pressure Points (3% Weapon Critical per Assassination ability on bar = huge), Sorcerer's Energized (5% more Physical Damage) and Expert Mage (2% Weapon Damage per Sorcerer ability slotted), and Dragonknight's Mountain's Blessing (5% Weapon Damage in the form of Minor Brutality and 3 Ultimate in parallel with Helping Hands' 5% Stamina return). Another decent Templar passive, Restoring Spirit (4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reduction), is a bit of a joke when compared to Sorcerer's Power Stone (15% Ultimate cost reduction) and Unholy Knowledge (5% Magicka and Stamina cost reduction)...
#2 – Outclassed in Every Way
In terms of sustain, compare the mechanics of Templar's Repentance to the equivalent abilities of the other classes. Repentance is a free cast, unlike Sorcerer's Dark Deal, Dragonknight's Helping Hands and Battle Roar, and Nightblade's Siphoning Attacks. However, this is not as advantageous as it may seem, as Repentance is limited to work only on nearby corpses no more than once, while the others convert Magicka or Ultimate, resources that regenerate automatically and indefinitely, into Stamina. This makes Repentance subpar at best unless there's a constant stream of fodder dying at the caster's feet. Give Templars some way to skillfully regenerate Stamina outside of Repentance, perhaps from a passive or an active skill. Something like, after using Biting Jabs, increase resources returned from heavy attacks by X% for 10 seconds.
Giving credit where it's due, Stamina Templar has good healing. Not the best, mind you, as the class of mediocrity's healing is outclassed by that of the Dragonknight. Both classes have Major Mending, but thanks to the Burning Heart passive (12% healing received), Dragonknight has slightly better healing. (And yeah, technically Dragonknight, like Templar, has Minor Vitality from Coagulating Blood, but does that really count?)
In terms of damage, as previously mentioned, Templar really only has two skills for dealing damage. One of which is so bad, I've written an entire section (#3) on it below.
#3 – Biting Jabs is a Bad Skill
This ability has suffered its fair share of negative changes the past two and a half years, and it shows – it's an unfortunately lacking ability. In days of yore, when there were no "Stamina morphs" of class abilities, Biting Jabs was an imperfect, but interesting skill.
The original skill (Patch 1.0-1.5)
The knockback on the final hit was admittedly buggy. For a long time, it wouldn't grant CC immunity and would hit through dodge roll, likely because the ability's damage was entirely undodgeable at the time. My point is, the skill had a unique mechanic that ramped up the caster's critical chance. This was, and still is, unlike any other anything in the game. However, since patch 1.6:
Unique critical chance buff is no more (Patch 1.6-2.2)
The death knell of Jabs' Major Savagery
Since patch 2.3, the ability was changed to have a comically short snare:
Generic Weapon Critical buff, generic snare (Patch 2.3-present)
Perhaps comparing Jabs to some other abilities will provide some perspective. Compared to Surprise Attack, Biting Jabs costs more, deals less single-target damage, and the Major Fracture debuff is arguably far more useful than Major Savagery, particularly in PVP and solo PVE. The first two points are easily explained by, "Jabs is an AOE, and AOE abilities shouldn't deal more single-target damage than non-AOE abilities." Fair, but why is Jabs an AOE, again? It's not even a good one, at that. Compared to Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs only affects a cone in front of the caster, which is extremely unreliable against fast-moving targets and completely neuters the ability when the caster is rooted or heavily snared. Furthermore, Steel Tornado has a bigger radius and a built-in execute all for roughly the same cost. And no, Burning Light does not make up for the difference in damage in either of these comparisons because of its internal cooldown and low damage.
And don't forget, unlike Surprise Attack and Steel Tornado, which are instant cast abilities, Biting Jabs has a cast time. Consequently, Jabs cannot be cast while blocking and cannot be canceled with bash. Additionally, roll dodge canceling and swap canceling will cut the ability short. Channeled damage skills are inherently inferior in this game's combat system. This isn't the post to outline this in length, but instant cast abilities are much more pertinent the way the game plays today. In PVP, even if Biting Jabs had more overall damage than Surprise Attack, the Nightblade's fast, instant burst damage would still win out over the Templar's slow, staggered hits because Surprise Attack is just that. Instant pressure that doesn't lock the caster into a channel. And don't forget, Major Resolve, Major Ward, and Major Fracture just for casting Surprise Attack, a skill that also increases max Health while slotted and has a built-in hard CC synergy with cloak. kool
Please consider any the following:
#4 – Bad PVE DPS and Conclusion
Make no mistake, a Stamina Templar can complete any content in this game. This notwithstanding, Stamina Templar has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina, rendering them an undesirable melee DPS in trials. This is the sum of the points previously outlined in this post, and Maelstrom scores are living proof of this. A low DPS main spammable, no in-class execute, and unremarkable damage from supporting abilities cause that 10,000+ difference between the top Stamina Templar scores and the other classes. Improve the damage of Biting Jabs or introduce additional Stamina morphs to help the class along. Skills like Crescent Sweep and Solar Barrage are rarely used, making them prime candidates for such a change.
Thanks for reading, and post your (constructive) thoughts below.
#1 – Poor Active Skills
In terms of skills, Templar's options are too limited, and what little the class has is overshadowed by the other classes in almost every sense. The root of the problem is this: Templar just doesn't have enough by way of in-class Stamina utility. Just look at the class abilities you'll find on a typical end-game PVE Stamina DPS build's bars, sorted below by class:
Nightblade
- Killer's Blade
- Relentless Focus
- Surprise Attack
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Veil of Blades (some trials only)
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Flames of Oblivion
- Reflective Scale (Maelstrom only)
- Igneous Weapons (maybe, if you're a cheap-o)
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor (Maelstrom only)
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Overload (depending on the content)
- Negate Magic (either morph)
- Biting Jabs
- Power of the Light
- Repentance
- Solar Prison (some trials only)
So, the Stamina Templar really only has three in-class abilities that are worth slotting for most PVE scenarios: Biting Jabs, Power of the Light and Repentance. While there are plenty of universal skills to fill the remaining 8 or 9 slots, it's problematic that so many class skills are simply not useful in any content. Unfortunately, it's kind of the same story for PVP – the other classes just have more viable skills to choose from. Check it out:
Nightblade
- Killer's Blade
- Ambush
- Relentless Focus
- Shadowy Disguise
- Surprise Attack
- Aspect of Terror
- Shadow Image
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Volatile Armor
- Reflective Scale
- Igneous Shield
- Fossilize
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Daedric Mines (Overload bar only)
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Streak
- Overload
- Negate Magic
- Biting Jabs
- Binding Javelin
- Repentance
- Extended Ritual
- Restoring Focus
Build diversity, especially viable weapon types in PVP, is seriously limited by how few in-class options Templar offers. Templar is the only class that must rely on outside sources for Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. And it goes much further than missing these fundamental buffs, as outlined by this ability-by-ability breakdown, sorted by class tree:
Aedric Spear
- Radial Sweep
- In PVP, this used to have a place in the Stamina Templar's toolkit, particularly the Crescent Sweep morph. However, with the change of Dawnbreaker to Physical Damage and the addition of Berserker Strike and Shield Wall, this ultimate is completely obsolete.
- It was never viable for PVE.
- Biting Jabs
- It's sort of the same story for PVP and PVE with this ability, and I've written an entire section below on why this ability is poor.
- To summarize, this skill's single-target damage is lower than any other single-target spammable, likely because it's an AOE ability. And yet, its damage as an AOE is substandard, likely because it's designed as a single-target spammable. So, it's sort of stuck in this catch-22. It's fair to say an ability with great single-target damage shouldn't have great AOE damage, and an AOE skill shouldn't excel in single-target DPS. A skill that melds these two will always be difficult to balance, and while Biting Jabs was decent in days past, it definitely falls short in its current state. For a more detailed breakdown, check out the section on Biting Jabs, outlined in point #3 below.
- Binding Javelin
- For some PVP builds, this is a decent ranged stun that, for some reason, deals melee damage. The cost is far too high, almost on par with Shuffle. Reduce the cost and make this ability deal something other than melee damage.
- Irrelevant for PVE.
- Focused Charge
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Spear Shards
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Sun Shield
- Not viable for PVP or PVE.
Dawn's Wrath
- Nova
- Not viable for PVP.
- This ultimate is useful in trials only for the damage reduction. It really has no place anywhere else. The cost is prohibitively high for use outside of PVE, and the damage is far too low. It feels like this ability was completely balanced around the admittedly powerful Gravity Crush/Supernova instead of the other way around, seriously limiting its usefulness when there's no one around to fumble with that awkward synergy.
- Sun Fire
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Perhaps give this a Stamina morph, similar to Venomous Claw?
- Solar Flare
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Solar Barrage is rarely used, a potential Stamina morph?
- Power of the Light
- Not viable for PVP.
- This is a good skill to work into a PVE DPS build. Deals somewhere around 3,000 self-buffed, single-target DPS in sustained fights, so it's not bad.
- Eclipse
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, though it used to have some incredibly entertaining bugs.
- Radiant Destruction
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. This is a post about Stamina Templar. SELF. CONTROL. This is a post about Stamina Templar.
Restoring Light
- Rite of Passage
- This... this ultimate is not viable in any content. We have plenty of area healing that doesn't require the caster to stand in place for the entire duration. Seriously, give this skill some utility. Since Templar is apparently all about placing auras and building houses, perhaps make this summon an area of protection that provides rotating buffs and debuff?
- Rushed Ceremony
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Healing Ritual
- This ability suffers from the same problems as Rite of Passage. Grand Healing completely outclasses this skill for proactive healing. Reactionary heals, or in other words, burst heals, cannot have a a long cast time (or a cast time at all) lest they become useless. Plus, Breath of Life already fills the role of a burst heal, and though it only targets two players, it's an instant cast with a much longer range. I know this skill is unrelated to Stamina Templar in its current state, but please rework this ability completely.
- Repentance
- This is an okay sustain skill. The resources this skill provides are, simply put, not as good as the passive sustain from Siphoning Attacks, Battle Roar, and Helping Hands and the burst Stamina from Dark Deal. See section #2 for more details.
- Extended Ritual
- This skill is incredibly powerful for survivability in PVP, perhaps too strong, but it doesn't grant the same flexibility the other classes have. It's not a weak ability by any measure, but it's sort of a rock-paper-scissors skill that doesn't warrant itself to skillful use. Stamina Sorcerers can take advantage of their mobility in a multitude of ways, engaging and disengaging almost at will, a Shadow-Image-teleporting Nightblade likewise. By contrast, there's really only one way to use Cleansing Ritual, which is irksome. The most complicated part about cleansing is pushing the button when bad things show up on your debuff tracker. This is definitely a picky point, because this is by far and away the best Templar skill for PVP.
- Not viable for PVE.
- Restoring Focus
- This is a good ability for PVP. It provides the standard Major armor buffs, and extra damage mitigation and healing from the Minor buffs are nice. Why does this have to be a placeable aura rather than a self-buff like every other skill of its type?
- Not really needed for PVE.
I'd rather not delve into the class' passive skills because it's much of the same story. But even the valuable ones, like Balanced Warrior (6% Weapon Damage), are outclassed by passives like Nightblade's Pressure Points (3% Weapon Critical per Assassination ability on bar = huge), Sorcerer's Energized (5% more Physical Damage) and Expert Mage (2% Weapon Damage per Sorcerer ability slotted), and Dragonknight's Mountain's Blessing (5% Weapon Damage in the form of Minor Brutality and 3 Ultimate in parallel with Helping Hands' 5% Stamina return). Another decent Templar passive, Restoring Spirit (4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reduction), is a bit of a joke when compared to Sorcerer's Power Stone (15% Ultimate cost reduction) and Unholy Knowledge (5% Magicka and Stamina cost reduction)...
#2 – Outclassed in Every Way
In terms of sustain, compare the mechanics of Templar's Repentance to the equivalent abilities of the other classes. Repentance is a free cast, unlike Sorcerer's Dark Deal, Dragonknight's Helping Hands and Battle Roar, and Nightblade's Siphoning Attacks. However, this is not as advantageous as it may seem, as Repentance is limited to work only on nearby corpses no more than once, while the others convert Magicka or Ultimate, resources that regenerate automatically and indefinitely, into Stamina. This makes Repentance subpar at best unless there's a constant stream of fodder dying at the caster's feet. Give Templars some way to skillfully regenerate Stamina outside of Repentance, perhaps from a passive or an active skill. Something like, after using Biting Jabs, increase resources returned from heavy attacks by X% for 10 seconds.
Giving credit where it's due, Stamina Templar has good healing. Not the best, mind you, as the class of mediocrity's healing is outclassed by that of the Dragonknight. Both classes have Major Mending, but thanks to the Burning Heart passive (12% healing received), Dragonknight has slightly better healing. (And yeah, technically Dragonknight, like Templar, has Minor Vitality from Coagulating Blood, but does that really count?)
In terms of damage, as previously mentioned, Templar really only has two skills for dealing damage. One of which is so bad, I've written an entire section (#3) on it below.
#3 – Biting Jabs is a Bad Skill
This ability has suffered its fair share of negative changes the past two and a half years, and it shows – it's an unfortunately lacking ability. In days of yore, when there were no "Stamina morphs" of class abilities, Biting Jabs was an imperfect, but interesting skill.
The original skill (Patch 1.0-1.5)
The knockback on the final hit was admittedly buggy. For a long time, it wouldn't grant CC immunity and would hit through dodge roll, likely because the ability's damage was entirely undodgeable at the time. My point is, the skill had a unique mechanic that ramped up the caster's critical chance. This was, and still is, unlike any other anything in the game. However, since patch 1.6:
Biting Jabs was converted to a Stamina ability and given Major Savagery, a generic 10% Weapon Critical buff. This was a poor change, as this buff is easily obtained from crafted potions, which are practically required for high-end content. Worse still, Biting Jabs is not even a reliable source of Major Savagery, making this part of the ability wholly irrelevant in PVE.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
- Puncturing Strikes
- Biting Jabs (morph): This ability can now scale off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.
Unique critical chance buff is no more (Patch 1.6-2.2)
The death knell of Jabs' Major Savagery
Since patch 2.3, the ability was changed to have a comically short snare:
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
- Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
Generic Weapon Critical buff, generic snare (Patch 2.3-present)
Perhaps comparing Jabs to some other abilities will provide some perspective. Compared to Surprise Attack, Biting Jabs costs more, deals less single-target damage, and the Major Fracture debuff is arguably far more useful than Major Savagery, particularly in PVP and solo PVE. The first two points are easily explained by, "Jabs is an AOE, and AOE abilities shouldn't deal more single-target damage than non-AOE abilities." Fair, but why is Jabs an AOE, again? It's not even a good one, at that. Compared to Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs only affects a cone in front of the caster, which is extremely unreliable against fast-moving targets and completely neuters the ability when the caster is rooted or heavily snared. Furthermore, Steel Tornado has a bigger radius and a built-in execute all for roughly the same cost. And no, Burning Light does not make up for the difference in damage in either of these comparisons because of its internal cooldown and low damage.
And don't forget, unlike Surprise Attack and Steel Tornado, which are instant cast abilities, Biting Jabs has a cast time. Consequently, Jabs cannot be cast while blocking and cannot be canceled with bash. Additionally, roll dodge canceling and swap canceling will cut the ability short. Channeled damage skills are inherently inferior in this game's combat system. This isn't the post to outline this in length, but instant cast abilities are much more pertinent the way the game plays today. In PVP, even if Biting Jabs had more overall damage than Surprise Attack, the Nightblade's fast, instant burst damage would still win out over the Templar's slow, staggered hits because Surprise Attack is just that. Instant pressure that doesn't lock the caster into a channel. And don't forget, Major Resolve, Major Ward, and Major Fracture just for casting Surprise Attack, a skill that also increases max Health while slotted and has a built-in hard CC synergy with cloak. kool
Please consider any the following:
- Replace the Major Savagery buff with a unique buff that increases Weapon Critical by up to X% depending on the missing health of the target(s), like the skill used to behave.
- Make Biting Jabs a targeted ability and adjust the damage accordingly.
- Make Biting Jabs an instant cast ability, remove the area damage portion, and adjust damage accordingly.
- Make the snare less effective but increase its duration. Or replace it with some other debuff, because honestly, there's more than enough snare out there.
#4 – Bad PVE DPS and Conclusion
Make no mistake, a Stamina Templar can complete any content in this game. This notwithstanding, Stamina Templar has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina, rendering them an undesirable melee DPS in trials. This is the sum of the points previously outlined in this post, and Maelstrom scores are living proof of this. A low DPS main spammable, no in-class execute, and unremarkable damage from supporting abilities cause that 10,000+ difference between the top Stamina Templar scores and the other classes. Improve the damage of Biting Jabs or introduce additional Stamina morphs to help the class along. Skills like Crescent Sweep and Solar Barrage are rarely used, making them prime candidates for such a change.
Thanks for reading, and post your (constructive) thoughts below.
Box a.k.a. Ferdowsi (PC NA)
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Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agreed! Very good read friend. As a stamplar main since practically day one, I feel this is an accurate snapshot of our current situation and your suggestions were very well thought out. Also, +1 for that FB clickbait title!5 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭10/10. Thanks for the nostalgia trip on Biting Jabs. That was a cool mechanic.
A couple things I've said elsewhere that I'll say again,
1. I think Burning Light should be changed to proc on any Magic, Flame, or Physical damage over time effect instead of on DD Aedric Spear abilities. It would be somewhat analogous but very unique from the new Implosion for Stamsorc which is an absolutely beastly passive. It would certainly allow for more build freedom.
2. Templars fare the the worst of any class with a staff because weaving is incredibly difficult with cast times and channels. One thing ZOS could add to help with this while helping Stamplars at the same time is to give a bonus to heavy attack speed and damage - perhaps 20% faster and 10% more damage (add to Master Ritualist passive?). Stamplars have to utilize heavy attacks for stamina return more than any other class because their primary stamina sustain is only available AFTER a kill.
Templar passives in general are pitifully weak and non-synergystic. They need to develop this class a LOT more thoroughly.Edited by Solariken on December 9, 2016 12:49AM4 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭plus the skills look lame...
in terms of aesthetics-
nightblade? badass looking skills- sleak assassins.
dragonknights- hard hitting thug skills, flame? claws? most versatile offensive visually interesting class.
sorc- the speed is awesome. i hate that i can barely see myself in hurrican- its a clear advantage / disandvatage that needs fixing. seriously i can't see other sorcs if its a 1v1! - just go to that opacity slider and go from 30 percent to 70 percent ZOS. done!
templar? white sticky glow thing stabby stabby jump jump. no....
first time i saw that in betnikh i felt sorry for the guy who chose the class - it looked like a raver dancing with a glow stick. while i had a sleek bandit assassin night blade. templar has always been the most neglected class by ZOS. in terms of skill versatility and their solution? make their few skills OP.Edited by MakoFore on December 9, 2016 12:58AM2 -
ethanthefox✭✭Very interesting post!
My main in PvP is a Stamplar and the only way I can actually survive (7/7 medium, not a heavy armor fan or even procs set) is stacking ritual and vitality pots. I must have a good enough stam regen to not be dependent of stam pots at all. I stopped doing pve a long time ago with him as any of my other pve character has more utility/dps in trials.
It lack burst in PvP for sure, im almost considering putting back dizzying swing on my bar like in the old days. One thing I dont understand is why can you roll dodge through jabs and take no damage while puncturing sweeps will goes through dodge?
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭CylindricalBox wrote: »With a prospective balance patch coming sometime in the near future, I've outlined some issues with Stamina Templar in this post, providing suggestions for improvement throughout (General Discussion section since this is very broad). While a Stamina Templar can certainly complete any and all content in this game, the class has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina. The class also struggles in PVP due to its limited utility and poor sustain.
#1 – Poor Active Skills
In terms of skills, Templar's options are too limited, and what little the class has is overshadowed by the other classes in almost every sense. The root of the problem is this: Templar just doesn't have enough by way of in-class Stamina utility. Just look at the class abilities you'll find on a typical end-game PVE Stamina DPS build's bars, sorted below by class:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Relentless Focus
- Surprise Attack
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Veil of Blades (some trials only)
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Flames of Oblivion
- Reflective Scale (Maelstrom only)
- Igneous Weapons (maybe, if you're a cheap-o)
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor (Maelstrom only)
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Overload (depending on the content)
- Negate Magic (either morph)
- Biting Jabs
- Power of the Light
- Repentance
- Solar Prison (some trials only)
So, the Stamina Templar really only has three in-class abilities that are worth slotting for most PVE scenarios: Biting Jabs, Power of the Light and Repentance. While there are plenty of universal skills to fill the remaining 8 or 9 slots, it's problematic that so many class skills are simply not useful in any content. Unfortunately, it's kind of the same story for PVP – the other classes just have more viable skills to choose from. Check it out:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Ambush
- Relentless Focus
- Shadowy Disguise
- Surprise Attack
- Aspect of Terror
- Shadow Image
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Volatile Armor
- Reflective Scale
- Igneous Shield
- Fossilize
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Daedric Mines (Overload bar only)
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Streak
- Overload
- Negate Magic
- Biting Jabs
- Binding Javelin
- Repentance
- Extended Ritual
- Restoring Focus
Build diversity, especially viable weapon types in PVP, is seriously limited by how few in-class options Templar offers. Templar is the only class that must rely on outside sources for Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. And it goes much further than missing these fundamental buffs, as outlined by this ability-by-ability breakdown, sorted by class tree:
Aedric Spear- Radial Sweep
- In PVP, this used to have a place in the Stamina Templar's toolkit, particularly the Crescent Sweep morph. However, with the change of Dawnbreaker to Physical Damage and the addition of Berserker Strike and Shield Wall, this ultimate is completely obsolete.
- It was never viable for PVE.
- Biting Jabs
- It's sort of the same story for PVP and PVE with this ability, and I've written an entire section below on why this ability is poor.
- To summarize, this skill's single-target damage is lower than any other single-target spammable, likely because it's an AOE ability. And yet, its damage as an AOE is substandard, likely because it's designed as a single-target spammable. So, it's sort of stuck in this catch-22. It's fair to say an ability with great single-target damage shouldn't have great AOE damage, and an AOE skill shouldn't excel in single-target DPS. A skill that melds these two will always be difficult to balance, and while Biting Jabs was decent in days past, it definitely falls short in its current state. For a more detailed breakdown, check out the section on Biting Jabs, outlined in point #3 below.
- Binding Javelin
- For some PVP builds, this is a decent ranged stun that, for some reason, deals melee damage. The cost is far too high, almost on par with Shuffle. Reduce the cost and make this ability deal something other than melee damage.
- Irrelevant for PVE.
- Focused Charge
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Spear Shards
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Sun Shield
- Not viable for PVP or PVE.
Dawn's Wrath- Nova
- Not viable for PVP.
- This ultimate is useful in trials only for the damage reduction. It really has no place anywhere else. The cost is prohibitively high for use outside of PVE, and the damage is far too low. It feels like this ability was completely balanced around the admittedly powerful Gravity Crush/Supernova instead of the other way around, seriously limiting its usefulness when there's no one around to fumble with that awkward synergy.
- Sun Fire
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Perhaps give this a Stamina morph, similar to Venomous Claw?
- Solar Flare
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Solar Barrage is rarely used, a potential Stamina morph?
- Power of the Light
- Not viable for PVP.
- This is a good skill to work into a PVE DPS build. Deals somewhere around 3,000 self-buffed, single-target DPS in sustained fights, so it's not bad.
- Eclipse
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, though it used to have some incredibly entertaining bugs.
- Radiant Destruction
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. This is a post about Stamina Templar. SELF. CONTROL. This is a post about Stamina Templar.
Restoring Light- Rite of Passage
- This... this ultimate is not viable in any content. We have plenty of area healing that doesn't require the caster to stand in place for the entire duration. Seriously, give this skill some utility. Since Templar is apparently all about placing auras and building houses, perhaps make this summon an area of protection that provides rotating buffs and debuff?
- Rushed Ceremony
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Healing Ritual
- This ability suffers from the same problems as Rite of Passage. Grand Healing completely outclasses this skill for proactive healing. Reactionary heals, or in other words, burst heals, cannot have a a long cast time (or a cast time at all) lest they become useless. Plus, Breath of Life already fills the role of a burst heal, and though it only targets two players, it's an instant cast with a much longer range. I know this skill is unrelated to Stamina Templar in its current state, but please rework this ability completely.
- Repentance
- This is an okay sustain skill. The resources this skill provides are, simply put, not as good as the passive sustain from Siphoning Attacks, Battle Roar, and Helping Hands and the burst Stamina from Dark Deal. See section #2 for more details.
- Extended Ritual
- This skill is incredibly powerful for survivability in PVP, perhaps too strong, but it doesn't grant the same flexibility the other classes have. It's not a weak ability by any measure, but it's sort of a rock-paper-scissors skill that doesn't warrant itself to skillful use. Stamina Sorcerers can take advantage of their mobility in a multitude of ways, engaging and disengaging almost at will, a Shadow-Image-teleporting Nightblade likewise. By contrast, there's really only one way to use Cleansing Ritual, which is irksome. The most complicated part about cleansing is pushing the button when bad things show up on your debuff tracker. This is definitely a picky point, because this is by far and away the best Templar skill for PVP.
- Not viable for PVE.
- Restoring Focus
- This is a good ability for PVP. It provides the standard Major armor buffs, and extra damage mitigation and healing from the Minor buffs are nice. Why does this have to be a placeable aura rather than a self-buff like every other skill of its type?
- Not really needed for PVE.
I'd rather not delve into the class' passive skills because it's much of the same story. But even the valuable ones, like Balanced Warrior (6% Weapon Damage), are outclassed by passives like Nightblade's Pressure Points (3% Weapon Critical per Assassination ability on bar = huge), Sorcerer's Energized (5% more Physical Damage) and Expert Mage (2% Weapon Damage per Sorcerer ability slotted), and Dragonknight's Mountain's Blessing (5% Weapon Damage in the form of Minor Brutality and 3 Ultimate in parallel with Helping Hands' 5% Stamina return). Another decent Templar passive, Restoring Spirit (4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reduction), is a bit of a joke when compared to Sorcerer's Power Stone (15% Ultimate cost reduction) and Unholy Knowledge (5% Magicka and Stamina cost reduction)...
#2 – Outclassed in Every Way
In terms of sustain, compare the mechanics of Templar's Repentance to the equivalent abilities of the other classes. Repentance is a free cast, unlike Sorcerer's Dark Deal, Dragonknight's Helping Hands and Battle Roar, and Nightblade's Siphoning Attacks. However, this is not as advantageous as it may seem, as Repentance is limited to work only on nearby corpses no more than once, while the others convert Magicka or Ultimate, resources that regenerate automatically and indefinitely, into Stamina. This makes Repentance subpar at best unless there's a constant stream of fodder dying at the caster's feet. Give Templars some way to skillfully regenerate Stamina outside of Repentance, perhaps from a passive or an active skill. Something like, after using Biting Jabs, increase resources returned from heavy attacks by X% for 10 seconds.
Giving credit where it's due, Stamina Templar has good healing. Not the best, mind you, as the class of mediocrity's healing is outclassed by that of the Dragonknight. Both classes have Major Mending, but thanks to the Burning Heart passive (12% healing received), Dragonknight has slightly better healing. (And yeah, technically Dragonknight, like Templar, has Minor Vitality from Coagulating Blood, but does that really count?)
In terms of damage, as previously mentioned, Templar really only has two skills for dealing damage. One of which is so bad, I've written an entire section (#3) on it below.
#3 – Biting Jabs is a Bad Skill
This ability has suffered its fair share of negative changes the past two and a half years, and it shows – it's an unfortunately lacking ability. In days of yore, when there were no "Stamina morphs" of class abilities, Biting Jabs was an imperfect, but interesting skill.
The original skill (Patch 1.0-1.5)
The knockback on the final hit was admittedly buggy. For a long time, it wouldn't grant CC immunity and would hit through dodge roll, likely because the ability's damage was entirely undodgeable at the time. My point is, the skill had a unique mechanic that ramped up the caster's critical chance. This was, and still is, unlike any other anything in the game. However, since patch 1.6:
Biting Jabs was converted to a Stamina ability and given Major Savagery, a generic 10% Weapon Critical buff. This was a poor change, as this buff is easily obtained from crafted potions, which are practically required for high-end content. Worse still, Biting Jabs is not even a reliable source of Major Savagery, making this part of the ability wholly irrelevant in PVE.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes
- Biting Jabs (morph): This ability can now scale off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.
Unique critical chance buff is no more (Patch 1.6-2.2)
The death knell of Jabs' Major Savagery
Since patch 2.3, the ability was changed to have a comically short snare:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
Generic Weapon Critical buff, generic snare (Patch 2.3-present)
Perhaps comparing Jabs to some other abilities will provide some perspective. Compared to Surprise Attack, Biting Jabs costs more, deals less single-target damage, and the Major Fracture debuff is arguably far more useful than Major Savagery, particularly in PVP and solo PVE. The first two points are easily explained by, "Jabs is an AOE, and AOE abilities shouldn't deal more single-target damage than non-AOE abilities." Fair, but why is Jabs an AOE, again? It's not even a good one, at that. Compared to Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs only affects a cone in front of the caster, which is extremely unreliable against fast-moving targets and completely neuters the ability when the caster is rooted or heavily snared. Furthermore, Steel Tornado has a bigger radius and a built-in execute all for roughly the same cost. And no, Burning Light does not make up for the difference in damage in either of these comparisons because of its internal cooldown and low damage.
And don't forget, unlike Surprise Attack and Steel Tornado, which are instant cast abilities, Biting Jabs has a cast time. Consequently, Jabs cannot be cast while blocking and cannot be canceled with bash. Additionally, roll dodge canceling and swap canceling will cut the ability short. Channeled damage skills are inherently inferior in this game's combat system. This isn't the post to outline this in length, but instant cast abilities are much more pertinent the way the game plays today. In PVP, even if Biting Jabs had more overall damage than Surprise Attack, the Nightblade's fast, instant burst damage would still win out over the Templar's slow, staggered hits because Surprise Attack is just that. Instant pressure that doesn't lock the caster into a channel. And don't forget, Major Resolve, Major Ward, and Major Fracture just for casting Surprise Attack, a skill that also increases max Health while slotted and has a built-in hard CC synergy with cloak. kool
Please consider any the following:- Replace the Major Savagery buff with a unique buff that increases Weapon Critical by up to X% depending on the missing health of the target(s), like the skill used to behave.
- Make Biting Jabs a targeted ability and adjust the damage accordingly.
- Make Biting Jabs an instant cast ability, remove the area damage portion, and adjust damage accordingly.
- Make the snare less effective but increase its duration. Or replace it with some other debuff, because honestly, there's more than enough snare out there.
#4 – Bad PVE DPS and Conclusion
Make no mistake, a Stamina Templar can complete any content in this game. This notwithstanding, Stamina Templar has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina, rendering them an undesirable melee DPS in trials. This is the sum of the points previously outlined in this post, and Maelstrom scores are living proof of this. A low DPS main spammable, no in-class execute, and unremarkable damage from supporting abilities cause that 10,000+ difference between the top Stamina Templar scores and the other classes. Improve the damage of Biting Jabs or introduce additional Stamina morphs to help the class along. Skills like Crescent Sweep and Solar Barrage are rarely used, making them prime candidates for such a change.
Thanks for reading, and post your (constructive) thoughts below.
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...9 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
Go drunk Morpheus, you're home.3 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
Go drunk Morpheus, you're home.
So you disagree with my points?0 -
Preach it, OP! Make Stamplars great again!Max CP, 11 explicitly average characters on XB1 NA0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
Go drunk Morpheus, you're home.
So you disagree with my points?
No, but I couldn't stop seeing that Morpheus caption in the back of my mind when I was reading the repeated, "What if I told you..." lines.1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
Go drunk Morpheus, you're home.
So you disagree with my points?
No, but I couldn't stop seeing that Morpheus caption in the back of my mind when I was reading the repeated, "What if I told you..." lines.
Hehe0 -
DreadKnight✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
Go drunk Morpheus, you're home.
So you disagree with my points?
No, but I couldn't stop seeing that Morpheus caption in the back of my mind when I was reading the repeated, "What if I told you..." lines.
.... and for Templars -do you take the Green pill or do you take the Blue pill!?0 -
Spearshard✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »CylindricalBox wrote: »With a prospective balance patch coming sometime in the near future, I've outlined some issues with Stamina Templar in this post, providing suggestions for improvement throughout (General Discussion section since this is very broad). While a Stamina Templar can certainly complete any and all content in this game, the class has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina. The class also struggles in PVP due to its limited utility and poor sustain.
#1 – Poor Active Skills
In terms of skills, Templar's options are too limited, and what little the class has is overshadowed by the other classes in almost every sense. The root of the problem is this: Templar just doesn't have enough by way of in-class Stamina utility. Just look at the class abilities you'll find on a typical end-game PVE Stamina DPS build's bars, sorted below by class:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Relentless Focus
- Surprise Attack
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Veil of Blades (some trials only)
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Flames of Oblivion
- Reflective Scale (Maelstrom only)
- Igneous Weapons (maybe, if you're a cheap-o)
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor (Maelstrom only)
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Overload (depending on the content)
- Negate Magic (either morph)
- Biting Jabs
- Power of the Light
- Repentance
- Solar Prison (some trials only)
So, the Stamina Templar really only has three in-class abilities that are worth slotting for most PVE scenarios: Biting Jabs, Power of the Light and Repentance. While there are plenty of universal skills to fill the remaining 8 or 9 slots, it's problematic that so many class skills are simply not useful in any content. Unfortunately, it's kind of the same story for PVP – the other classes just have more viable skills to choose from. Check it out:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Ambush
- Relentless Focus
- Shadowy Disguise
- Surprise Attack
- Aspect of Terror
- Shadow Image
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Volatile Armor
- Reflective Scale
- Igneous Shield
- Fossilize
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Daedric Mines (Overload bar only)
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Streak
- Overload
- Negate Magic
- Biting Jabs
- Binding Javelin
- Repentance
- Extended Ritual
- Restoring Focus
Build diversity, especially viable weapon types in PVP, is seriously limited by how few in-class options Templar offers. Templar is the only class that must rely on outside sources for Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. And it goes much further than missing these fundamental buffs, as outlined by this ability-by-ability breakdown, sorted by class tree:
Aedric Spear- Radial Sweep
- In PVP, this used to have a place in the Stamina Templar's toolkit, particularly the Crescent Sweep morph. However, with the change of Dawnbreaker to Physical Damage and the addition of Berserker Strike and Shield Wall, this ultimate is completely obsolete.
- It was never viable for PVE.
- Biting Jabs
- It's sort of the same story for PVP and PVE with this ability, and I've written an entire section below on why this ability is poor.
- To summarize, this skill's single-target damage is lower than any other single-target spammable, likely because it's an AOE ability. And yet, its damage as an AOE is substandard, likely because it's designed as a single-target spammable. So, it's sort of stuck in this catch-22. It's fair to say an ability with great single-target damage shouldn't have great AOE damage, and an AOE skill shouldn't excel in single-target DPS. A skill that melds these two will always be difficult to balance, and while Biting Jabs was decent in days past, it definitely falls short in its current state. For a more detailed breakdown, check out the section on Biting Jabs, outlined in point #3 below.
- Binding Javelin
- For some PVP builds, this is a decent ranged stun that, for some reason, deals melee damage. The cost is far too high, almost on par with Shuffle. Reduce the cost and make this ability deal something other than melee damage.
- Irrelevant for PVE.
- Focused Charge
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Spear Shards
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Sun Shield
- Not viable for PVP or PVE.
Dawn's Wrath- Nova
- Not viable for PVP.
- This ultimate is useful in trials only for the damage reduction. It really has no place anywhere else. The cost is prohibitively high for use outside of PVE, and the damage is far too low. It feels like this ability was completely balanced around the admittedly powerful Gravity Crush/Supernova instead of the other way around, seriously limiting its usefulness when there's no one around to fumble with that awkward synergy.
- Sun Fire
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Perhaps give this a Stamina morph, similar to Venomous Claw?
- Solar Flare
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Solar Barrage is rarely used, a potential Stamina morph?
- Power of the Light
- Not viable for PVP.
- This is a good skill to work into a PVE DPS build. Deals somewhere around 3,000 self-buffed, single-target DPS in sustained fights, so it's not bad.
- Eclipse
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, though it used to have some incredibly entertaining bugs.
- Radiant Destruction
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. This is a post about Stamina Templar. SELF. CONTROL. This is a post about Stamina Templar.
Restoring Light- Rite of Passage
- This... this ultimate is not viable in any content. We have plenty of area healing that doesn't require the caster to stand in place for the entire duration. Seriously, give this skill some utility. Since Templar is apparently all about placing auras and building houses, perhaps make this summon an area of protection that provides rotating buffs and debuff?
- Rushed Ceremony
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Healing Ritual
- This ability suffers from the same problems as Rite of Passage. Grand Healing completely outclasses this skill for proactive healing. Reactionary heals, or in other words, burst heals, cannot have a a long cast time (or a cast time at all) lest they become useless. Plus, Breath of Life already fills the role of a burst heal, and though it only targets two players, it's an instant cast with a much longer range. I know this skill is unrelated to Stamina Templar in its current state, but please rework this ability completely.
- Repentance
- This is an okay sustain skill. The resources this skill provides are, simply put, not as good as the passive sustain from Siphoning Attacks, Battle Roar, and Helping Hands and the burst Stamina from Dark Deal. See section #2 for more details.
- Extended Ritual
- This skill is incredibly powerful for survivability in PVP, perhaps too strong, but it doesn't grant the same flexibility the other classes have. It's not a weak ability by any measure, but it's sort of a rock-paper-scissors skill that doesn't warrant itself to skillful use. Stamina Sorcerers can take advantage of their mobility in a multitude of ways, engaging and disengaging almost at will, a Shadow-Image-teleporting Nightblade likewise. By contrast, there's really only one way to use Cleansing Ritual, which is irksome. The most complicated part about cleansing is pushing the button when bad things show up on your debuff tracker. This is definitely a picky point, because this is by far and away the best Templar skill for PVP.
- Not viable for PVE.
- Restoring Focus
- This is a good ability for PVP. It provides the standard Major armor buffs, and extra damage mitigation and healing from the Minor buffs are nice. Why does this have to be a placeable aura rather than a self-buff like every other skill of its type?
- Not really needed for PVE.
I'd rather not delve into the class' passive skills because it's much of the same story. But even the valuable ones, like Balanced Warrior (6% Weapon Damage), are outclassed by passives like Nightblade's Pressure Points (3% Weapon Critical per Assassination ability on bar = huge), Sorcerer's Energized (5% more Physical Damage) and Expert Mage (2% Weapon Damage per Sorcerer ability slotted), and Dragonknight's Mountain's Blessing (5% Weapon Damage in the form of Minor Brutality and 3 Ultimate in parallel with Helping Hands' 5% Stamina return). Another decent Templar passive, Restoring Spirit (4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reduction), is a bit of a joke when compared to Sorcerer's Power Stone (15% Ultimate cost reduction) and Unholy Knowledge (5% Magicka and Stamina cost reduction)...
#2 – Outclassed in Every Way
In terms of sustain, compare the mechanics of Templar's Repentance to the equivalent abilities of the other classes. Repentance is a free cast, unlike Sorcerer's Dark Deal, Dragonknight's Helping Hands and Battle Roar, and Nightblade's Siphoning Attacks. However, this is not as advantageous as it may seem, as Repentance is limited to work only on nearby corpses no more than once, while the others convert Magicka or Ultimate, resources that regenerate automatically and indefinitely, into Stamina. This makes Repentance subpar at best unless there's a constant stream of fodder dying at the caster's feet. Give Templars some way to skillfully regenerate Stamina outside of Repentance, perhaps from a passive or an active skill. Something like, after using Biting Jabs, increase resources returned from heavy attacks by X% for 10 seconds.
Giving credit where it's due, Stamina Templar has good healing. Not the best, mind you, as the class of mediocrity's healing is outclassed by that of the Dragonknight. Both classes have Major Mending, but thanks to the Burning Heart passive (12% healing received), Dragonknight has slightly better healing. (And yeah, technically Dragonknight, like Templar, has Minor Vitality from Coagulating Blood, but does that really count?)
In terms of damage, as previously mentioned, Templar really only has two skills for dealing damage. One of which is so bad, I've written an entire section (#3) on it below.
#3 – Biting Jabs is a Bad Skill
This ability has suffered its fair share of negative changes the past two and a half years, and it shows – it's an unfortunately lacking ability. In days of yore, when there were no "Stamina morphs" of class abilities, Biting Jabs was an imperfect, but interesting skill.
The original skill (Patch 1.0-1.5)
The knockback on the final hit was admittedly buggy. For a long time, it wouldn't grant CC immunity and would hit through dodge roll, likely because the ability's damage was entirely undodgeable at the time. My point is, the skill had a unique mechanic that ramped up the caster's critical chance. This was, and still is, unlike any other anything in the game. However, since patch 1.6:
Biting Jabs was converted to a Stamina ability and given Major Savagery, a generic 10% Weapon Critical buff. This was a poor change, as this buff is easily obtained from crafted potions, which are practically required for high-end content. Worse still, Biting Jabs is not even a reliable source of Major Savagery, making this part of the ability wholly irrelevant in PVE.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes
- Biting Jabs (morph): This ability can now scale off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.
Unique critical chance buff is no more (Patch 1.6-2.2)
The death knell of Jabs' Major Savagery
Since patch 2.3, the ability was changed to have a comically short snare:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
Generic Weapon Critical buff, generic snare (Patch 2.3-present)
Perhaps comparing Jabs to some other abilities will provide some perspective. Compared to Surprise Attack, Biting Jabs costs more, deals less single-target damage, and the Major Fracture debuff is arguably far more useful than Major Savagery, particularly in PVP and solo PVE. The first two points are easily explained by, "Jabs is an AOE, and AOE abilities shouldn't deal more single-target damage than non-AOE abilities." Fair, but why is Jabs an AOE, again? It's not even a good one, at that. Compared to Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs only affects a cone in front of the caster, which is extremely unreliable against fast-moving targets and completely neuters the ability when the caster is rooted or heavily snared. Furthermore, Steel Tornado has a bigger radius and a built-in execute all for roughly the same cost. And no, Burning Light does not make up for the difference in damage in either of these comparisons because of its internal cooldown and low damage.
And don't forget, unlike Surprise Attack and Steel Tornado, which are instant cast abilities, Biting Jabs has a cast time. Consequently, Jabs cannot be cast while blocking and cannot be canceled with bash. Additionally, roll dodge canceling and swap canceling will cut the ability short. Channeled damage skills are inherently inferior in this game's combat system. This isn't the post to outline this in length, but instant cast abilities are much more pertinent the way the game plays today. In PVP, even if Biting Jabs had more overall damage than Surprise Attack, the Nightblade's fast, instant burst damage would still win out over the Templar's slow, staggered hits because Surprise Attack is just that. Instant pressure that doesn't lock the caster into a channel. And don't forget, Major Resolve, Major Ward, and Major Fracture just for casting Surprise Attack, a skill that also increases max Health while slotted and has a built-in hard CC synergy with cloak. kool
Please consider any the following:- Replace the Major Savagery buff with a unique buff that increases Weapon Critical by up to X% depending on the missing health of the target(s), like the skill used to behave.
- Make Biting Jabs a targeted ability and adjust the damage accordingly.
- Make Biting Jabs an instant cast ability, remove the area damage portion, and adjust damage accordingly.
- Make the snare less effective but increase its duration. Or replace it with some other debuff, because honestly, there's more than enough snare out there.
#4 – Bad PVE DPS and Conclusion
Make no mistake, a Stamina Templar can complete any content in this game. This notwithstanding, Stamina Templar has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina, rendering them an undesirable melee DPS in trials. This is the sum of the points previously outlined in this post, and Maelstrom scores are living proof of this. A low DPS main spammable, no in-class execute, and unremarkable damage from supporting abilities cause that 10,000+ difference between the top Stamina Templar scores and the other classes. Improve the damage of Biting Jabs or introduce additional Stamina morphs to help the class along. Skills like Crescent Sweep and Solar Barrage are rarely used, making them prime candidates for such a change.
Thanks for reading, and post your (constructive) thoughts below.
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
So you are basically saying for a stamplar just to be on par with other classes you have to have vMA weapons...no offense but you are kinda proving the OP's point.8 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What if I told you every stam class besides Stamplar are hitting 45k+ on every trial boss.Stamplar is still and will be the weakest class in PVE And PVP..hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »CylindricalBox wrote: »With a prospective balance patch coming sometime in the near future, I've outlined some issues with Stamina Templar in this post, providing suggestions for improvement throughout (General Discussion section since this is very broad). While a Stamina Templar can certainly complete any and all content in this game, the class has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina. The class also struggles in PVP due to its limited utility and poor sustain.
#1 – Poor Active Skills
In terms of skills, Templar's options are too limited, and what little the class has is overshadowed by the other classes in almost every sense. The root of the problem is this: Templar just doesn't have enough by way of in-class Stamina utility. Just look at the class abilities you'll find on a typical end-game PVE Stamina DPS build's bars, sorted below by class:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Relentless Focus
- Surprise Attack
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Veil of Blades (some trials only)
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Flames of Oblivion
- Reflective Scale (Maelstrom only)
- Igneous Weapons (maybe, if you're a cheap-o)
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor (Maelstrom only)
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Overload (depending on the content)
- Negate Magic (either morph)
- Biting Jabs
- Power of the Light
- Repentance
- Solar Prison (some trials only)
So, the Stamina Templar really only has three in-class abilities that are worth slotting for most PVE scenarios: Biting Jabs, Power of the Light and Repentance. While there are plenty of universal skills to fill the remaining 8 or 9 slots, it's problematic that so many class skills are simply not useful in any content. Unfortunately, it's kind of the same story for PVP – the other classes just have more viable skills to choose from. Check it out:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Ambush
- Relentless Focus
- Shadowy Disguise
- Surprise Attack
- Aspect of Terror
- Shadow Image
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Volatile Armor
- Reflective Scale
- Igneous Shield
- Fossilize
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Daedric Mines (Overload bar only)
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Streak
- Overload
- Negate Magic
- Biting Jabs
- Binding Javelin
- Repentance
- Extended Ritual
- Restoring Focus
Build diversity, especially viable weapon types in PVP, is seriously limited by how few in-class options Templar offers. Templar is the only class that must rely on outside sources for Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. And it goes much further than missing these fundamental buffs, as outlined by this ability-by-ability breakdown, sorted by class tree:
Aedric Spear- Radial Sweep
- In PVP, this used to have a place in the Stamina Templar's toolkit, particularly the Crescent Sweep morph. However, with the change of Dawnbreaker to Physical Damage and the addition of Berserker Strike and Shield Wall, this ultimate is completely obsolete.
- It was never viable for PVE.
- Biting Jabs
- It's sort of the same story for PVP and PVE with this ability, and I've written an entire section below on why this ability is poor.
- To summarize, this skill's single-target damage is lower than any other single-target spammable, likely because it's an AOE ability. And yet, its damage as an AOE is substandard, likely because it's designed as a single-target spammable. So, it's sort of stuck in this catch-22. It's fair to say an ability with great single-target damage shouldn't have great AOE damage, and an AOE skill shouldn't excel in single-target DPS. A skill that melds these two will always be difficult to balance, and while Biting Jabs was decent in days past, it definitely falls short in its current state. For a more detailed breakdown, check out the section on Biting Jabs, outlined in point #3 below.
- Binding Javelin
- For some PVP builds, this is a decent ranged stun that, for some reason, deals melee damage. The cost is far too high, almost on par with Shuffle. Reduce the cost and make this ability deal something other than melee damage.
- Irrelevant for PVE.
- Focused Charge
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Spear Shards
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Sun Shield
- Not viable for PVP or PVE.
Dawn's Wrath- Nova
- Not viable for PVP.
- This ultimate is useful in trials only for the damage reduction. It really has no place anywhere else. The cost is prohibitively high for use outside of PVE, and the damage is far too low. It feels like this ability was completely balanced around the admittedly powerful Gravity Crush/Supernova instead of the other way around, seriously limiting its usefulness when there's no one around to fumble with that awkward synergy.
- Sun Fire
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Perhaps give this a Stamina morph, similar to Venomous Claw?
- Solar Flare
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Solar Barrage is rarely used, a potential Stamina morph?
- Power of the Light
- Not viable for PVP.
- This is a good skill to work into a PVE DPS build. Deals somewhere around 3,000 self-buffed, single-target DPS in sustained fights, so it's not bad.
- Eclipse
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, though it used to have some incredibly entertaining bugs.
- Radiant Destruction
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. This is a post about Stamina Templar. SELF. CONTROL. This is a post about Stamina Templar.
Restoring Light- Rite of Passage
- This... this ultimate is not viable in any content. We have plenty of area healing that doesn't require the caster to stand in place for the entire duration. Seriously, give this skill some utility. Since Templar is apparently all about placing auras and building houses, perhaps make this summon an area of protection that provides rotating buffs and debuff?
- Rushed Ceremony
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Healing Ritual
- This ability suffers from the same problems as Rite of Passage. Grand Healing completely outclasses this skill for proactive healing. Reactionary heals, or in other words, burst heals, cannot have a a long cast time (or a cast time at all) lest they become useless. Plus, Breath of Life already fills the role of a burst heal, and though it only targets two players, it's an instant cast with a much longer range. I know this skill is unrelated to Stamina Templar in its current state, but please rework this ability completely.
- Repentance
- This is an okay sustain skill. The resources this skill provides are, simply put, not as good as the passive sustain from Siphoning Attacks, Battle Roar, and Helping Hands and the burst Stamina from Dark Deal. See section #2 for more details.
- Extended Ritual
- This skill is incredibly powerful for survivability in PVP, perhaps too strong, but it doesn't grant the same flexibility the other classes have. It's not a weak ability by any measure, but it's sort of a rock-paper-scissors skill that doesn't warrant itself to skillful use. Stamina Sorcerers can take advantage of their mobility in a multitude of ways, engaging and disengaging almost at will, a Shadow-Image-teleporting Nightblade likewise. By contrast, there's really only one way to use Cleansing Ritual, which is irksome. The most complicated part about cleansing is pushing the button when bad things show up on your debuff tracker. This is definitely a picky point, because this is by far and away the best Templar skill for PVP.
- Not viable for PVE.
- Restoring Focus
- This is a good ability for PVP. It provides the standard Major armor buffs, and extra damage mitigation and healing from the Minor buffs are nice. Why does this have to be a placeable aura rather than a self-buff like every other skill of its type?
- Not really needed for PVE.
I'd rather not delve into the class' passive skills because it's much of the same story. But even the valuable ones, like Balanced Warrior (6% Weapon Damage), are outclassed by passives like Nightblade's Pressure Points (3% Weapon Critical per Assassination ability on bar = huge), Sorcerer's Energized (5% more Physical Damage) and Expert Mage (2% Weapon Damage per Sorcerer ability slotted), and Dragonknight's Mountain's Blessing (5% Weapon Damage in the form of Minor Brutality and 3 Ultimate in parallel with Helping Hands' 5% Stamina return). Another decent Templar passive, Restoring Spirit (4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reduction), is a bit of a joke when compared to Sorcerer's Power Stone (15% Ultimate cost reduction) and Unholy Knowledge (5% Magicka and Stamina cost reduction)...
#2 – Outclassed in Every Way
In terms of sustain, compare the mechanics of Templar's Repentance to the equivalent abilities of the other classes. Repentance is a free cast, unlike Sorcerer's Dark Deal, Dragonknight's Helping Hands and Battle Roar, and Nightblade's Siphoning Attacks. However, this is not as advantageous as it may seem, as Repentance is limited to work only on nearby corpses no more than once, while the others convert Magicka or Ultimate, resources that regenerate automatically and indefinitely, into Stamina. This makes Repentance subpar at best unless there's a constant stream of fodder dying at the caster's feet. Give Templars some way to skillfully regenerate Stamina outside of Repentance, perhaps from a passive or an active skill. Something like, after using Biting Jabs, increase resources returned from heavy attacks by X% for 10 seconds.
Giving credit where it's due, Stamina Templar has good healing. Not the best, mind you, as the class of mediocrity's healing is outclassed by that of the Dragonknight. Both classes have Major Mending, but thanks to the Burning Heart passive (12% healing received), Dragonknight has slightly better healing. (And yeah, technically Dragonknight, like Templar, has Minor Vitality from Coagulating Blood, but does that really count?)
In terms of damage, as previously mentioned, Templar really only has two skills for dealing damage. One of which is so bad, I've written an entire section (#3) on it below.
#3 – Biting Jabs is a Bad Skill
This ability has suffered its fair share of negative changes the past two and a half years, and it shows – it's an unfortunately lacking ability. In days of yore, when there were no "Stamina morphs" of class abilities, Biting Jabs was an imperfect, but interesting skill.
The original skill (Patch 1.0-1.5)
The knockback on the final hit was admittedly buggy. For a long time, it wouldn't grant CC immunity and would hit through dodge roll, likely because the ability's damage was entirely undodgeable at the time. My point is, the skill had a unique mechanic that ramped up the caster's critical chance. This was, and still is, unlike any other anything in the game. However, since patch 1.6:
Biting Jabs was converted to a Stamina ability and given Major Savagery, a generic 10% Weapon Critical buff. This was a poor change, as this buff is easily obtained from crafted potions, which are practically required for high-end content. Worse still, Biting Jabs is not even a reliable source of Major Savagery, making this part of the ability wholly irrelevant in PVE.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes
- Biting Jabs (morph): This ability can now scale off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.
Unique critical chance buff is no more (Patch 1.6-2.2)
The death knell of Jabs' Major Savagery
Since patch 2.3, the ability was changed to have a comically short snare:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
Generic Weapon Critical buff, generic snare (Patch 2.3-present)
Perhaps comparing Jabs to some other abilities will provide some perspective. Compared to Surprise Attack, Biting Jabs costs more, deals less single-target damage, and the Major Fracture debuff is arguably far more useful than Major Savagery, particularly in PVP and solo PVE. The first two points are easily explained by, "Jabs is an AOE, and AOE abilities shouldn't deal more single-target damage than non-AOE abilities." Fair, but why is Jabs an AOE, again? It's not even a good one, at that. Compared to Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs only affects a cone in front of the caster, which is extremely unreliable against fast-moving targets and completely neuters the ability when the caster is rooted or heavily snared. Furthermore, Steel Tornado has a bigger radius and a built-in execute all for roughly the same cost. And no, Burning Light does not make up for the difference in damage in either of these comparisons because of its internal cooldown and low damage.
And don't forget, unlike Surprise Attack and Steel Tornado, which are instant cast abilities, Biting Jabs has a cast time. Consequently, Jabs cannot be cast while blocking and cannot be canceled with bash. Additionally, roll dodge canceling and swap canceling will cut the ability short. Channeled damage skills are inherently inferior in this game's combat system. This isn't the post to outline this in length, but instant cast abilities are much more pertinent the way the game plays today. In PVP, even if Biting Jabs had more overall damage than Surprise Attack, the Nightblade's fast, instant burst damage would still win out over the Templar's slow, staggered hits because Surprise Attack is just that. Instant pressure that doesn't lock the caster into a channel. And don't forget, Major Resolve, Major Ward, and Major Fracture just for casting Surprise Attack, a skill that also increases max Health while slotted and has a built-in hard CC synergy with cloak. kool
Please consider any the following:- Replace the Major Savagery buff with a unique buff that increases Weapon Critical by up to X% depending on the missing health of the target(s), like the skill used to behave.
- Make Biting Jabs a targeted ability and adjust the damage accordingly.
- Make Biting Jabs an instant cast ability, remove the area damage portion, and adjust damage accordingly.
- Make the snare less effective but increase its duration. Or replace it with some other debuff, because honestly, there's more than enough snare out there.
#4 – Bad PVE DPS and Conclusion
Make no mistake, a Stamina Templar can complete any content in this game. This notwithstanding, Stamina Templar has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina, rendering them an undesirable melee DPS in trials. This is the sum of the points previously outlined in this post, and Maelstrom scores are living proof of this. A low DPS main spammable, no in-class execute, and unremarkable damage from supporting abilities cause that 10,000+ difference between the top Stamina Templar scores and the other classes. Improve the damage of Biting Jabs or introduce additional Stamina morphs to help the class along. Skills like Crescent Sweep and Solar Barrage are rarely used, making them prime candidates for such a change.
Thanks for reading, and post your (constructive) thoughts below.
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
Stamplars are in a bad place right now.6 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭CylindricalBox wrote: »With a prospective balance patch coming sometime in the near future, I've outlined some issues with Stamina Templar in this post, providing suggestions for improvement throughout (General Discussion section since this is very broad). While a Stamina Templar can certainly complete any and all content in this game, the class has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina. The class also struggles in PVP due to its limited utility and poor sustain.
#1 – Poor Active Skills
In terms of skills, Templar's options are too limited, and what little the class has is overshadowed by the other classes in almost every sense. The root of the problem is this: Templar just doesn't have enough by way of in-class Stamina utility. Just look at the class abilities you'll find on a typical end-game PVE Stamina DPS build's bars, sorted below by class:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Relentless Focus
- Surprise Attack
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Veil of Blades (some trials only)
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Flames of Oblivion
- Reflective Scale (Maelstrom only)
- Igneous Weapons (maybe, if you're a cheap-o)
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor (Maelstrom only)
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Overload (depending on the content)
- Negate Magic (either morph)
- Biting Jabs
- Power of the Light
- Repentance
- Solar Prison (some trials only)
So, the Stamina Templar really only has three in-class abilities that are worth slotting for most PVE scenarios: Biting Jabs, Power of the Light and Repentance. While there are plenty of universal skills to fill the remaining 8 or 9 slots, it's problematic that so many class skills are simply not useful in any content. Unfortunately, it's kind of the same story for PVP – the other classes just have more viable skills to choose from. Check it out:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Ambush
- Relentless Focus
- Shadowy Disguise
- Surprise Attack
- Aspect of Terror
- Shadow Image
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Volatile Armor
- Reflective Scale
- Igneous Shield
- Fossilize
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Daedric Mines (Overload bar only)
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Streak
- Overload
- Negate Magic
- Biting Jabs
- Binding Javelin
- Repentance
- Extended Ritual
- Restoring Focus
Build diversity, especially viable weapon types in PVP, is seriously limited by how few in-class options Templar offers. Templar is the only class that must rely on outside sources for Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. And it goes much further than missing these fundamental buffs, as outlined by this ability-by-ability breakdown, sorted by class tree:
Aedric Spear- Radial Sweep
- In PVP, this used to have a place in the Stamina Templar's toolkit, particularly the Crescent Sweep morph. However, with the change of Dawnbreaker to Physical Damage and the addition of Berserker Strike and Shield Wall, this ultimate is completely obsolete.
- It was never viable for PVE.
- Biting Jabs
- It's sort of the same story for PVP and PVE with this ability, and I've written an entire section below on why this ability is poor.
- To summarize, this skill's single-target damage is lower than any other single-target spammable, likely because it's an AOE ability. And yet, its damage as an AOE is substandard, likely because it's designed as a single-target spammable. So, it's sort of stuck in this catch-22. It's fair to say an ability with great single-target damage shouldn't have great AOE damage, and an AOE skill shouldn't excel in single-target DPS. A skill that melds these two will always be difficult to balance, and while Biting Jabs was decent in days past, it definitely falls short in its current state. For a more detailed breakdown, check out the section on Biting Jabs, outlined in point #3 below.
- Binding Javelin
- For some PVP builds, this is a decent ranged stun that, for some reason, deals melee damage. The cost is far too high, almost on par with Shuffle. Reduce the cost and make this ability deal something other than melee damage.
- Irrelevant for PVE.
- Focused Charge
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Spear Shards
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Sun Shield
- Not viable for PVP or PVE.
Dawn's Wrath- Nova
- Not viable for PVP.
- This ultimate is useful in trials only for the damage reduction. It really has no place anywhere else. The cost is prohibitively high for use outside of PVE, and the damage is far too low. It feels like this ability was completely balanced around the admittedly powerful Gravity Crush/Supernova instead of the other way around, seriously limiting its usefulness when there's no one around to fumble with that awkward synergy.
- Sun Fire
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Perhaps give this a Stamina morph, similar to Venomous Claw?
- Solar Flare
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Solar Barrage is rarely used, a potential Stamina morph?
- Power of the Light
- Not viable for PVP.
- This is a good skill to work into a PVE DPS build. Deals somewhere around 3,000 self-buffed, single-target DPS in sustained fights, so it's not bad.
- Eclipse
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, though it used to have some incredibly entertaining bugs.
- Radiant Destruction
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. This is a post about Stamina Templar. SELF. CONTROL. This is a post about Stamina Templar.
Restoring Light- Rite of Passage
- This... this ultimate is not viable in any content. We have plenty of area healing that doesn't require the caster to stand in place for the entire duration. Seriously, give this skill some utility. Since Templar is apparently all about placing auras and building houses, perhaps make this summon an area of protection that provides rotating buffs and debuff?
- Rushed Ceremony
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Healing Ritual
- This ability suffers from the same problems as Rite of Passage. Grand Healing completely outclasses this skill for proactive healing. Reactionary heals, or in other words, burst heals, cannot have a a long cast time (or a cast time at all) lest they become useless. Plus, Breath of Life already fills the role of a burst heal, and though it only targets two players, it's an instant cast with a much longer range. I know this skill is unrelated to Stamina Templar in its current state, but please rework this ability completely.
- Repentance
- This is an okay sustain skill. The resources this skill provides are, simply put, not as good as the passive sustain from Siphoning Attacks, Battle Roar, and Helping Hands and the burst Stamina from Dark Deal. See section #2 for more details.
- Extended Ritual
- This skill is incredibly powerful for survivability in PVP, perhaps too strong, but it doesn't grant the same flexibility the other classes have. It's not a weak ability by any measure, but it's sort of a rock-paper-scissors skill that doesn't warrant itself to skillful use. Stamina Sorcerers can take advantage of their mobility in a multitude of ways, engaging and disengaging almost at will, a Shadow-Image-teleporting Nightblade likewise. By contrast, there's really only one way to use Cleansing Ritual, which is irksome. The most complicated part about cleansing is pushing the button when bad things show up on your debuff tracker. This is definitely a picky point, because this is by far and away the best Templar skill for PVP.
- Not viable for PVE.
- Restoring Focus
- This is a good ability for PVP. It provides the standard Major armor buffs, and extra damage mitigation and healing from the Minor buffs are nice. Why does this have to be a placeable aura rather than a self-buff like every other skill of its type?
- Not really needed for PVE.
I'd rather not delve into the class' passive skills because it's much of the same story. But even the valuable ones, like Balanced Warrior (6% Weapon Damage), are outclassed by passives like Nightblade's Pressure Points (3% Weapon Critical per Assassination ability on bar = huge), Sorcerer's Energized (5% more Physical Damage) and Expert Mage (2% Weapon Damage per Sorcerer ability slotted), and Dragonknight's Mountain's Blessing (5% Weapon Damage in the form of Minor Brutality and 3 Ultimate in parallel with Helping Hands' 5% Stamina return). Another decent Templar passive, Restoring Spirit (4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reduction), is a bit of a joke when compared to Sorcerer's Power Stone (15% Ultimate cost reduction) and Unholy Knowledge (5% Magicka and Stamina cost reduction)...
#2 – Outclassed in Every Way
In terms of sustain, compare the mechanics of Templar's Repentance to the equivalent abilities of the other classes. Repentance is a free cast, unlike Sorcerer's Dark Deal, Dragonknight's Helping Hands and Battle Roar, and Nightblade's Siphoning Attacks. However, this is not as advantageous as it may seem, as Repentance is limited to work only on nearby corpses no more than once, while the others convert Magicka or Ultimate, resources that regenerate automatically and indefinitely, into Stamina. This makes Repentance subpar at best unless there's a constant stream of fodder dying at the caster's feet. Give Templars some way to skillfully regenerate Stamina outside of Repentance, perhaps from a passive or an active skill. Something like, after using Biting Jabs, increase resources returned from heavy attacks by X% for 10 seconds.
Giving credit where it's due, Stamina Templar has good healing. Not the best, mind you, as the class of mediocrity's healing is outclassed by that of the Dragonknight. Both classes have Major Mending, but thanks to the Burning Heart passive (12% healing received), Dragonknight has slightly better healing. (And yeah, technically Dragonknight, like Templar, has Minor Vitality from Coagulating Blood, but does that really count?)
In terms of damage, as previously mentioned, Templar really only has two skills for dealing damage. One of which is so bad, I've written an entire section (#3) on it below.
#3 – Biting Jabs is a Bad Skill
This ability has suffered its fair share of negative changes the past two and a half years, and it shows – it's an unfortunately lacking ability. In days of yore, when there were no "Stamina morphs" of class abilities, Biting Jabs was an imperfect, but interesting skill.
The original skill (Patch 1.0-1.5)
The knockback on the final hit was admittedly buggy. For a long time, it wouldn't grant CC immunity and would hit through dodge roll, likely because the ability's damage was entirely undodgeable at the time. My point is, the skill had a unique mechanic that ramped up the caster's critical chance. This was, and still is, unlike any other anything in the game. However, since patch 1.6:
Biting Jabs was converted to a Stamina ability and given Major Savagery, a generic 10% Weapon Critical buff. This was a poor change, as this buff is easily obtained from crafted potions, which are practically required for high-end content. Worse still, Biting Jabs is not even a reliable source of Major Savagery, making this part of the ability wholly irrelevant in PVE.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes
- Biting Jabs (morph): This ability can now scale off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.
Unique critical chance buff is no more (Patch 1.6-2.2)
The death knell of Jabs' Major Savagery
Since patch 2.3, the ability was changed to have a comically short snare:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
Generic Weapon Critical buff, generic snare (Patch 2.3-present)
Perhaps comparing Jabs to some other abilities will provide some perspective. Compared to Surprise Attack, Biting Jabs costs more, deals less single-target damage, and the Major Fracture debuff is arguably far more useful than Major Savagery, particularly in PVP and solo PVE. The first two points are easily explained by, "Jabs is an AOE, and AOE abilities shouldn't deal more single-target damage than non-AOE abilities." Fair, but why is Jabs an AOE, again? It's not even a good one, at that. Compared to Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs only affects a cone in front of the caster, which is extremely unreliable against fast-moving targets and completely neuters the ability when the caster is rooted or heavily snared. Furthermore, Steel Tornado has a bigger radius and a built-in execute all for roughly the same cost. And no, Burning Light does not make up for the difference in damage in either of these comparisons because of its internal cooldown and low damage.
And don't forget, unlike Surprise Attack and Steel Tornado, which are instant cast abilities, Biting Jabs has a cast time. Consequently, Jabs cannot be cast while blocking and cannot be canceled with bash. Additionally, roll dodge canceling and swap canceling will cut the ability short. Channeled damage skills are inherently inferior in this game's combat system. This isn't the post to outline this in length, but instant cast abilities are much more pertinent the way the game plays today. In PVP, even if Biting Jabs had more overall damage than Surprise Attack, the Nightblade's fast, instant burst damage would still win out over the Templar's slow, staggered hits because Surprise Attack is just that. Instant pressure that doesn't lock the caster into a channel. And don't forget, Major Resolve, Major Ward, and Major Fracture just for casting Surprise Attack, a skill that also increases max Health while slotted and has a built-in hard CC synergy with cloak. kool
Please consider any the following:- Replace the Major Savagery buff with a unique buff that increases Weapon Critical by up to X% depending on the missing health of the target(s), like the skill used to behave.
- Make Biting Jabs a targeted ability and adjust the damage accordingly.
- Make Biting Jabs an instant cast ability, remove the area damage portion, and adjust damage accordingly.
- Make the snare less effective but increase its duration. Or replace it with some other debuff, because honestly, there's more than enough snare out there.
#4 – Bad PVE DPS and Conclusion
Make no mistake, a Stamina Templar can complete any content in this game. This notwithstanding, Stamina Templar has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina, rendering them an undesirable melee DPS in trials. This is the sum of the points previously outlined in this post, and Maelstrom scores are living proof of this. A low DPS main spammable, no in-class execute, and unremarkable damage from supporting abilities cause that 10,000+ difference between the top Stamina Templar scores and the other classes. Improve the damage of Biting Jabs or introduce additional Stamina morphs to help the class along. Skills like Crescent Sweep and Solar Barrage are rarely used, making them prime candidates for such a change.
Thanks for reading, and post your (constructive) thoughts below.
I think stamplar is currently the worst class in the game. No comparison to magplar.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP2 -
Skinzz✭✭✭✭✭I strongly disagree with this subject. One of my main alts is a stamplar and i absolutely wreck my opponents in pvp. And my stamplar is my go to class for pve and maelstrom...Anybody got a group? LFG, anybody? Hello?3 -
nraner81✭✭vet trials you say? hard mode vets you say?
stamina you say?
no invite for you I say.
magic > stam
endgame right now.
PS----PVE I hear stamplars rip it up in pvp.PS4 NA Endgame tank/healer/runner/mag dps. Trials are why I play! I miss when Vdung were tough and fun.0 -
Volrion✭✭✭✭DreadKnight wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
Go drunk Morpheus, you're home.
So you disagree with my points?
No, but I couldn't stop seeing that Morpheus caption in the back of my mind when I was reading the repeated, "What if I told you..." lines.
.... and for Templars -do you take the Green pill or do you take the Blue pill!?
Definitely the blue pill!0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stam templars are beasts in pvp. The only thing they don't have is a great class ultimate.1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Spearshard wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »CylindricalBox wrote: »With a prospective balance patch coming sometime in the near future, I've outlined some issues with Stamina Templar in this post, providing suggestions for improvement throughout (General Discussion section since this is very broad). While a Stamina Templar can certainly complete any and all content in this game, the class has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina. The class also struggles in PVP due to its limited utility and poor sustain.
#1 – Poor Active Skills
In terms of skills, Templar's options are too limited, and what little the class has is overshadowed by the other classes in almost every sense. The root of the problem is this: Templar just doesn't have enough by way of in-class Stamina utility. Just look at the class abilities you'll find on a typical end-game PVE Stamina DPS build's bars, sorted below by class:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Relentless Focus
- Surprise Attack
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Veil of Blades (some trials only)
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Flames of Oblivion
- Reflective Scale (Maelstrom only)
- Igneous Weapons (maybe, if you're a cheap-o)
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor (Maelstrom only)
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Overload (depending on the content)
- Negate Magic (either morph)
- Biting Jabs
- Power of the Light
- Repentance
- Solar Prison (some trials only)
So, the Stamina Templar really only has three in-class abilities that are worth slotting for most PVE scenarios: Biting Jabs, Power of the Light and Repentance. While there are plenty of universal skills to fill the remaining 8 or 9 slots, it's problematic that so many class skills are simply not useful in any content. Unfortunately, it's kind of the same story for PVP – the other classes just have more viable skills to choose from. Check it out:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Ambush
- Relentless Focus
- Shadowy Disguise
- Surprise Attack
- Aspect of Terror
- Shadow Image
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Volatile Armor
- Reflective Scale
- Igneous Shield
- Fossilize
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Daedric Mines (Overload bar only)
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Streak
- Overload
- Negate Magic
- Biting Jabs
- Binding Javelin
- Repentance
- Extended Ritual
- Restoring Focus
Build diversity, especially viable weapon types in PVP, is seriously limited by how few in-class options Templar offers. Templar is the only class that must rely on outside sources for Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. And it goes much further than missing these fundamental buffs, as outlined by this ability-by-ability breakdown, sorted by class tree:
Aedric Spear- Radial Sweep
- In PVP, this used to have a place in the Stamina Templar's toolkit, particularly the Crescent Sweep morph. However, with the change of Dawnbreaker to Physical Damage and the addition of Berserker Strike and Shield Wall, this ultimate is completely obsolete.
- It was never viable for PVE.
- Biting Jabs
- It's sort of the same story for PVP and PVE with this ability, and I've written an entire section below on why this ability is poor.
- To summarize, this skill's single-target damage is lower than any other single-target spammable, likely because it's an AOE ability. And yet, its damage as an AOE is substandard, likely because it's designed as a single-target spammable. So, it's sort of stuck in this catch-22. It's fair to say an ability with great single-target damage shouldn't have great AOE damage, and an AOE skill shouldn't excel in single-target DPS. A skill that melds these two will always be difficult to balance, and while Biting Jabs was decent in days past, it definitely falls short in its current state. For a more detailed breakdown, check out the section on Biting Jabs, outlined in point #3 below.
- Binding Javelin
- For some PVP builds, this is a decent ranged stun that, for some reason, deals melee damage. The cost is far too high, almost on par with Shuffle. Reduce the cost and make this ability deal something other than melee damage.
- Irrelevant for PVE.
- Focused Charge
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Spear Shards
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Sun Shield
- Not viable for PVP or PVE.
Dawn's Wrath- Nova
- Not viable for PVP.
- This ultimate is useful in trials only for the damage reduction. It really has no place anywhere else. The cost is prohibitively high for use outside of PVE, and the damage is far too low. It feels like this ability was completely balanced around the admittedly powerful Gravity Crush/Supernova instead of the other way around, seriously limiting its usefulness when there's no one around to fumble with that awkward synergy.
- Sun Fire
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Perhaps give this a Stamina morph, similar to Venomous Claw?
- Solar Flare
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Solar Barrage is rarely used, a potential Stamina morph?
- Power of the Light
- Not viable for PVP.
- This is a good skill to work into a PVE DPS build. Deals somewhere around 3,000 self-buffed, single-target DPS in sustained fights, so it's not bad.
- Eclipse
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, though it used to have some incredibly entertaining bugs.
- Radiant Destruction
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. This is a post about Stamina Templar. SELF. CONTROL. This is a post about Stamina Templar.
Restoring Light- Rite of Passage
- This... this ultimate is not viable in any content. We have plenty of area healing that doesn't require the caster to stand in place for the entire duration. Seriously, give this skill some utility. Since Templar is apparently all about placing auras and building houses, perhaps make this summon an area of protection that provides rotating buffs and debuff?
- Rushed Ceremony
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Healing Ritual
- This ability suffers from the same problems as Rite of Passage. Grand Healing completely outclasses this skill for proactive healing. Reactionary heals, or in other words, burst heals, cannot have a a long cast time (or a cast time at all) lest they become useless. Plus, Breath of Life already fills the role of a burst heal, and though it only targets two players, it's an instant cast with a much longer range. I know this skill is unrelated to Stamina Templar in its current state, but please rework this ability completely.
- Repentance
- This is an okay sustain skill. The resources this skill provides are, simply put, not as good as the passive sustain from Siphoning Attacks, Battle Roar, and Helping Hands and the burst Stamina from Dark Deal. See section #2 for more details.
- Extended Ritual
- This skill is incredibly powerful for survivability in PVP, perhaps too strong, but it doesn't grant the same flexibility the other classes have. It's not a weak ability by any measure, but it's sort of a rock-paper-scissors skill that doesn't warrant itself to skillful use. Stamina Sorcerers can take advantage of their mobility in a multitude of ways, engaging and disengaging almost at will, a Shadow-Image-teleporting Nightblade likewise. By contrast, there's really only one way to use Cleansing Ritual, which is irksome. The most complicated part about cleansing is pushing the button when bad things show up on your debuff tracker. This is definitely a picky point, because this is by far and away the best Templar skill for PVP.
- Not viable for PVE.
- Restoring Focus
- This is a good ability for PVP. It provides the standard Major armor buffs, and extra damage mitigation and healing from the Minor buffs are nice. Why does this have to be a placeable aura rather than a self-buff like every other skill of its type?
- Not really needed for PVE.
I'd rather not delve into the class' passive skills because it's much of the same story. But even the valuable ones, like Balanced Warrior (6% Weapon Damage), are outclassed by passives like Nightblade's Pressure Points (3% Weapon Critical per Assassination ability on bar = huge), Sorcerer's Energized (5% more Physical Damage) and Expert Mage (2% Weapon Damage per Sorcerer ability slotted), and Dragonknight's Mountain's Blessing (5% Weapon Damage in the form of Minor Brutality and 3 Ultimate in parallel with Helping Hands' 5% Stamina return). Another decent Templar passive, Restoring Spirit (4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reduction), is a bit of a joke when compared to Sorcerer's Power Stone (15% Ultimate cost reduction) and Unholy Knowledge (5% Magicka and Stamina cost reduction)...
#2 – Outclassed in Every Way
In terms of sustain, compare the mechanics of Templar's Repentance to the equivalent abilities of the other classes. Repentance is a free cast, unlike Sorcerer's Dark Deal, Dragonknight's Helping Hands and Battle Roar, and Nightblade's Siphoning Attacks. However, this is not as advantageous as it may seem, as Repentance is limited to work only on nearby corpses no more than once, while the others convert Magicka or Ultimate, resources that regenerate automatically and indefinitely, into Stamina. This makes Repentance subpar at best unless there's a constant stream of fodder dying at the caster's feet. Give Templars some way to skillfully regenerate Stamina outside of Repentance, perhaps from a passive or an active skill. Something like, after using Biting Jabs, increase resources returned from heavy attacks by X% for 10 seconds.
Giving credit where it's due, Stamina Templar has good healing. Not the best, mind you, as the class of mediocrity's healing is outclassed by that of the Dragonknight. Both classes have Major Mending, but thanks to the Burning Heart passive (12% healing received), Dragonknight has slightly better healing. (And yeah, technically Dragonknight, like Templar, has Minor Vitality from Coagulating Blood, but does that really count?)
In terms of damage, as previously mentioned, Templar really only has two skills for dealing damage. One of which is so bad, I've written an entire section (#3) on it below.
#3 – Biting Jabs is a Bad Skill
This ability has suffered its fair share of negative changes the past two and a half years, and it shows – it's an unfortunately lacking ability. In days of yore, when there were no "Stamina morphs" of class abilities, Biting Jabs was an imperfect, but interesting skill.
The original skill (Patch 1.0-1.5)
The knockback on the final hit was admittedly buggy. For a long time, it wouldn't grant CC immunity and would hit through dodge roll, likely because the ability's damage was entirely undodgeable at the time. My point is, the skill had a unique mechanic that ramped up the caster's critical chance. This was, and still is, unlike any other anything in the game. However, since patch 1.6:
Biting Jabs was converted to a Stamina ability and given Major Savagery, a generic 10% Weapon Critical buff. This was a poor change, as this buff is easily obtained from crafted potions, which are practically required for high-end content. Worse still, Biting Jabs is not even a reliable source of Major Savagery, making this part of the ability wholly irrelevant in PVE.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes
- Biting Jabs (morph): This ability can now scale off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.
Unique critical chance buff is no more (Patch 1.6-2.2)
The death knell of Jabs' Major Savagery
Since patch 2.3, the ability was changed to have a comically short snare:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
Generic Weapon Critical buff, generic snare (Patch 2.3-present)
Perhaps comparing Jabs to some other abilities will provide some perspective. Compared to Surprise Attack, Biting Jabs costs more, deals less single-target damage, and the Major Fracture debuff is arguably far more useful than Major Savagery, particularly in PVP and solo PVE. The first two points are easily explained by, "Jabs is an AOE, and AOE abilities shouldn't deal more single-target damage than non-AOE abilities." Fair, but why is Jabs an AOE, again? It's not even a good one, at that. Compared to Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs only affects a cone in front of the caster, which is extremely unreliable against fast-moving targets and completely neuters the ability when the caster is rooted or heavily snared. Furthermore, Steel Tornado has a bigger radius and a built-in execute all for roughly the same cost. And no, Burning Light does not make up for the difference in damage in either of these comparisons because of its internal cooldown and low damage.
And don't forget, unlike Surprise Attack and Steel Tornado, which are instant cast abilities, Biting Jabs has a cast time. Consequently, Jabs cannot be cast while blocking and cannot be canceled with bash. Additionally, roll dodge canceling and swap canceling will cut the ability short. Channeled damage skills are inherently inferior in this game's combat system. This isn't the post to outline this in length, but instant cast abilities are much more pertinent the way the game plays today. In PVP, even if Biting Jabs had more overall damage than Surprise Attack, the Nightblade's fast, instant burst damage would still win out over the Templar's slow, staggered hits because Surprise Attack is just that. Instant pressure that doesn't lock the caster into a channel. And don't forget, Major Resolve, Major Ward, and Major Fracture just for casting Surprise Attack, a skill that also increases max Health while slotted and has a built-in hard CC synergy with cloak. kool
Please consider any the following:- Replace the Major Savagery buff with a unique buff that increases Weapon Critical by up to X% depending on the missing health of the target(s), like the skill used to behave.
- Make Biting Jabs a targeted ability and adjust the damage accordingly.
- Make Biting Jabs an instant cast ability, remove the area damage portion, and adjust damage accordingly.
- Make the snare less effective but increase its duration. Or replace it with some other debuff, because honestly, there's more than enough snare out there.
#4 – Bad PVE DPS and Conclusion
Make no mistake, a Stamina Templar can complete any content in this game. This notwithstanding, Stamina Templar has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina, rendering them an undesirable melee DPS in trials. This is the sum of the points previously outlined in this post, and Maelstrom scores are living proof of this. A low DPS main spammable, no in-class execute, and unremarkable damage from supporting abilities cause that 10,000+ difference between the top Stamina Templar scores and the other classes. Improve the damage of Biting Jabs or introduce additional Stamina morphs to help the class along. Skills like Crescent Sweep and Solar Barrage are rarely used, making them prime candidates for such a change.
Thanks for reading, and post your (constructive) thoughts below.
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
So you are basically saying for a stamplar just to be on par with other classes you have to have vMA weapons...no offense but you are kinda proving the OP's point.
Umm...if the other classes didnt have vMA weapons to parse they would be parsing lower than templar...possibly with exception of NB. vMA weapons favor DK's because they have the most DoT's that could be buffed by said weapons. Take the weapons away and the classes all do around the same damage...1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What if I told you every stam class besides Stamplar are hitting 45k+ on every trial boss.Stamplar is still and will be the weakest class in PVE And PVP..hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »CylindricalBox wrote: »With a prospective balance patch coming sometime in the near future, I've outlined some issues with Stamina Templar in this post, providing suggestions for improvement throughout (General Discussion section since this is very broad). While a Stamina Templar can certainly complete any and all content in this game, the class has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina. The class also struggles in PVP due to its limited utility and poor sustain.
#1 – Poor Active Skills
In terms of skills, Templar's options are too limited, and what little the class has is overshadowed by the other classes in almost every sense. The root of the problem is this: Templar just doesn't have enough by way of in-class Stamina utility. Just look at the class abilities you'll find on a typical end-game PVE Stamina DPS build's bars, sorted below by class:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Relentless Focus
- Surprise Attack
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Veil of Blades (some trials only)
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Flames of Oblivion
- Reflective Scale (Maelstrom only)
- Igneous Weapons (maybe, if you're a cheap-o)
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor (Maelstrom only)
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Overload (depending on the content)
- Negate Magic (either morph)
- Biting Jabs
- Power of the Light
- Repentance
- Solar Prison (some trials only)
So, the Stamina Templar really only has three in-class abilities that are worth slotting for most PVE scenarios: Biting Jabs, Power of the Light and Repentance. While there are plenty of universal skills to fill the remaining 8 or 9 slots, it's problematic that so many class skills are simply not useful in any content. Unfortunately, it's kind of the same story for PVP – the other classes just have more viable skills to choose from. Check it out:
Nightblade- Killer's Blade
- Ambush
- Relentless Focus
- Shadowy Disguise
- Surprise Attack
- Aspect of Terror
- Shadow Image
- Siphoning Attacks
- Incapacitating Strike
- Venomous Claw
- Noxious Breath
- Volatile Armor
- Reflective Scale
- Igneous Shield
- Fossilize
- Standard of Might
- Corrosive Armor
- Bound Armaments
- Dark Deal
- Daedric Mines (Overload bar only)
- Hurricane
- Critical Surge
- Streak
- Overload
- Negate Magic
- Biting Jabs
- Binding Javelin
- Repentance
- Extended Ritual
- Restoring Focus
Build diversity, especially viable weapon types in PVP, is seriously limited by how few in-class options Templar offers. Templar is the only class that must rely on outside sources for Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. And it goes much further than missing these fundamental buffs, as outlined by this ability-by-ability breakdown, sorted by class tree:
Aedric Spear- Radial Sweep
- In PVP, this used to have a place in the Stamina Templar's toolkit, particularly the Crescent Sweep morph. However, with the change of Dawnbreaker to Physical Damage and the addition of Berserker Strike and Shield Wall, this ultimate is completely obsolete.
- It was never viable for PVE.
- Biting Jabs
- It's sort of the same story for PVP and PVE with this ability, and I've written an entire section below on why this ability is poor.
- To summarize, this skill's single-target damage is lower than any other single-target spammable, likely because it's an AOE ability. And yet, its damage as an AOE is substandard, likely because it's designed as a single-target spammable. So, it's sort of stuck in this catch-22. It's fair to say an ability with great single-target damage shouldn't have great AOE damage, and an AOE skill shouldn't excel in single-target DPS. A skill that melds these two will always be difficult to balance, and while Biting Jabs was decent in days past, it definitely falls short in its current state. For a more detailed breakdown, check out the section on Biting Jabs, outlined in point #3 below.
- Binding Javelin
- For some PVP builds, this is a decent ranged stun that, for some reason, deals melee damage. The cost is far too high, almost on par with Shuffle. Reduce the cost and make this ability deal something other than melee damage.
- Irrelevant for PVE.
- Focused Charge
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Spear Shards
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Sun Shield
- Not viable for PVP or PVE.
Dawn's Wrath- Nova
- Not viable for PVP.
- This ultimate is useful in trials only for the damage reduction. It really has no place anywhere else. The cost is prohibitively high for use outside of PVE, and the damage is far too low. It feels like this ability was completely balanced around the admittedly powerful Gravity Crush/Supernova instead of the other way around, seriously limiting its usefulness when there's no one around to fumble with that awkward synergy.
- Sun Fire
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Perhaps give this a Stamina morph, similar to Venomous Claw?
- Solar Flare
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. Solar Barrage is rarely used, a potential Stamina morph?
- Power of the Light
- Not viable for PVP.
- This is a good skill to work into a PVE DPS build. Deals somewhere around 3,000 self-buffed, single-target DPS in sustained fights, so it's not bad.
- Eclipse
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, though it used to have some incredibly entertaining bugs.
- Radiant Destruction
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability. This is a post about Stamina Templar. SELF. CONTROL. This is a post about Stamina Templar.
Restoring Light- Rite of Passage
- This... this ultimate is not viable in any content. We have plenty of area healing that doesn't require the caster to stand in place for the entire duration. Seriously, give this skill some utility. Since Templar is apparently all about placing auras and building houses, perhaps make this summon an area of protection that provides rotating buffs and debuff?
- Rushed Ceremony
- Not viable for PVP or PVE, as this is a Magicka ability.
- Healing Ritual
- This ability suffers from the same problems as Rite of Passage. Grand Healing completely outclasses this skill for proactive healing. Reactionary heals, or in other words, burst heals, cannot have a a long cast time (or a cast time at all) lest they become useless. Plus, Breath of Life already fills the role of a burst heal, and though it only targets two players, it's an instant cast with a much longer range. I know this skill is unrelated to Stamina Templar in its current state, but please rework this ability completely.
- Repentance
- This is an okay sustain skill. The resources this skill provides are, simply put, not as good as the passive sustain from Siphoning Attacks, Battle Roar, and Helping Hands and the burst Stamina from Dark Deal. See section #2 for more details.
- Extended Ritual
- This skill is incredibly powerful for survivability in PVP, perhaps too strong, but it doesn't grant the same flexibility the other classes have. It's not a weak ability by any measure, but it's sort of a rock-paper-scissors skill that doesn't warrant itself to skillful use. Stamina Sorcerers can take advantage of their mobility in a multitude of ways, engaging and disengaging almost at will, a Shadow-Image-teleporting Nightblade likewise. By contrast, there's really only one way to use Cleansing Ritual, which is irksome. The most complicated part about cleansing is pushing the button when bad things show up on your debuff tracker. This is definitely a picky point, because this is by far and away the best Templar skill for PVP.
- Not viable for PVE.
- Restoring Focus
- This is a good ability for PVP. It provides the standard Major armor buffs, and extra damage mitigation and healing from the Minor buffs are nice. Why does this have to be a placeable aura rather than a self-buff like every other skill of its type?
- Not really needed for PVE.
I'd rather not delve into the class' passive skills because it's much of the same story. But even the valuable ones, like Balanced Warrior (6% Weapon Damage), are outclassed by passives like Nightblade's Pressure Points (3% Weapon Critical per Assassination ability on bar = huge), Sorcerer's Energized (5% more Physical Damage) and Expert Mage (2% Weapon Damage per Sorcerer ability slotted), and Dragonknight's Mountain's Blessing (5% Weapon Damage in the form of Minor Brutality and 3 Ultimate in parallel with Helping Hands' 5% Stamina return). Another decent Templar passive, Restoring Spirit (4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reduction), is a bit of a joke when compared to Sorcerer's Power Stone (15% Ultimate cost reduction) and Unholy Knowledge (5% Magicka and Stamina cost reduction)...
#2 – Outclassed in Every Way
In terms of sustain, compare the mechanics of Templar's Repentance to the equivalent abilities of the other classes. Repentance is a free cast, unlike Sorcerer's Dark Deal, Dragonknight's Helping Hands and Battle Roar, and Nightblade's Siphoning Attacks. However, this is not as advantageous as it may seem, as Repentance is limited to work only on nearby corpses no more than once, while the others convert Magicka or Ultimate, resources that regenerate automatically and indefinitely, into Stamina. This makes Repentance subpar at best unless there's a constant stream of fodder dying at the caster's feet. Give Templars some way to skillfully regenerate Stamina outside of Repentance, perhaps from a passive or an active skill. Something like, after using Biting Jabs, increase resources returned from heavy attacks by X% for 10 seconds.
Giving credit where it's due, Stamina Templar has good healing. Not the best, mind you, as the class of mediocrity's healing is outclassed by that of the Dragonknight. Both classes have Major Mending, but thanks to the Burning Heart passive (12% healing received), Dragonknight has slightly better healing. (And yeah, technically Dragonknight, like Templar, has Minor Vitality from Coagulating Blood, but does that really count?)
In terms of damage, as previously mentioned, Templar really only has two skills for dealing damage. One of which is so bad, I've written an entire section (#3) on it below.
#3 – Biting Jabs is a Bad Skill
This ability has suffered its fair share of negative changes the past two and a half years, and it shows – it's an unfortunately lacking ability. In days of yore, when there were no "Stamina morphs" of class abilities, Biting Jabs was an imperfect, but interesting skill.
The original skill (Patch 1.0-1.5)
The knockback on the final hit was admittedly buggy. For a long time, it wouldn't grant CC immunity and would hit through dodge roll, likely because the ability's damage was entirely undodgeable at the time. My point is, the skill had a unique mechanic that ramped up the caster's critical chance. This was, and still is, unlike any other anything in the game. However, since patch 1.6:
Biting Jabs was converted to a Stamina ability and given Major Savagery, a generic 10% Weapon Critical buff. This was a poor change, as this buff is easily obtained from crafted potions, which are practically required for high-end content. Worse still, Biting Jabs is not even a reliable source of Major Savagery, making this part of the ability wholly irrelevant in PVE.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes
- Biting Jabs (morph): This ability can now scale off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.
Unique critical chance buff is no more (Patch 1.6-2.2)
The death knell of Jabs' Major Savagery
Since patch 2.3, the ability was changed to have a comically short snare:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
Generic Weapon Critical buff, generic snare (Patch 2.3-present)
Perhaps comparing Jabs to some other abilities will provide some perspective. Compared to Surprise Attack, Biting Jabs costs more, deals less single-target damage, and the Major Fracture debuff is arguably far more useful than Major Savagery, particularly in PVP and solo PVE. The first two points are easily explained by, "Jabs is an AOE, and AOE abilities shouldn't deal more single-target damage than non-AOE abilities." Fair, but why is Jabs an AOE, again? It's not even a good one, at that. Compared to Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs only affects a cone in front of the caster, which is extremely unreliable against fast-moving targets and completely neuters the ability when the caster is rooted or heavily snared. Furthermore, Steel Tornado has a bigger radius and a built-in execute all for roughly the same cost. And no, Burning Light does not make up for the difference in damage in either of these comparisons because of its internal cooldown and low damage.
And don't forget, unlike Surprise Attack and Steel Tornado, which are instant cast abilities, Biting Jabs has a cast time. Consequently, Jabs cannot be cast while blocking and cannot be canceled with bash. Additionally, roll dodge canceling and swap canceling will cut the ability short. Channeled damage skills are inherently inferior in this game's combat system. This isn't the post to outline this in length, but instant cast abilities are much more pertinent the way the game plays today. In PVP, even if Biting Jabs had more overall damage than Surprise Attack, the Nightblade's fast, instant burst damage would still win out over the Templar's slow, staggered hits because Surprise Attack is just that. Instant pressure that doesn't lock the caster into a channel. And don't forget, Major Resolve, Major Ward, and Major Fracture just for casting Surprise Attack, a skill that also increases max Health while slotted and has a built-in hard CC synergy with cloak. kool
Please consider any the following:- Replace the Major Savagery buff with a unique buff that increases Weapon Critical by up to X% depending on the missing health of the target(s), like the skill used to behave.
- Make Biting Jabs a targeted ability and adjust the damage accordingly.
- Make Biting Jabs an instant cast ability, remove the area damage portion, and adjust damage accordingly.
- Make the snare less effective but increase its duration. Or replace it with some other debuff, because honestly, there's more than enough snare out there.
#4 – Bad PVE DPS and Conclusion
Make no mistake, a Stamina Templar can complete any content in this game. This notwithstanding, Stamina Templar has the lowest single-target and AOE PVE DPS out of any spec, Magicka or Stamina, rendering them an undesirable melee DPS in trials. This is the sum of the points previously outlined in this post, and Maelstrom scores are living proof of this. A low DPS main spammable, no in-class execute, and unremarkable damage from supporting abilities cause that 10,000+ difference between the top Stamina Templar scores and the other classes. Improve the damage of Biting Jabs or introduce additional Stamina morphs to help the class along. Skills like Crescent Sweep and Solar Barrage are rarely used, making them prime candidates for such a change.
Thanks for reading, and post your (constructive) thoughts below.
Strictly speaking for PvE:
What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
What if I told you that the class is in a good shape and truly shines when the fight has more than one target?
What if I told you that stamplars provide utility via their Power of the Light skill that benefits the raid in a unique way?
What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?
What if I told you that the direction in which the game is heading - mixed single target and aoE fights is ideal for a stamplar?
To summarize: Unique class that is definitely strong and strongly underestimated...
Stamplars are in a bad place right now.
Like I said Depending on the fight I hit on par or more so than DK's/NBs....Basically any fight with adds (Rakkat HM, HM Mage, ETC, but on warrior and manti I may be on par or lower than NB and DK)0 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭Yeah they can survive better in PVP than a DK would DKs will get wrecked if not with a healer templars have that ritual that slows people an easy clatrap maneuver right there. DKs just mostly sit thier and take it and die cause PVP is more speed and line of sight that targets. And templars slowed the players down better on a DK would.NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You did 1 dollar damage?
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."3 -
CylindricalBox✭✭✭
And mine likewise, but the problem is not that Stamina Templar can't get acceptable numbers. Rather, Stamina Templar's maximum DPS is considerably lower than the maximum DPS of the other classes. This is especially the case in PVP and is heavily apparent in Maelstrom, where there are no outside buffs to narrow the gap.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »What if I told you that my stamplar regularly parses 40k+ on every trial in this game?
Then I'd question the authenticity of the parse. For one, Stamina Templar has no abilities that benefit from the Maelstrom Cruel Flurry enchantment and thus must rely on skills from Dual Wield and Bow, or in other words, skills that are available to all the classes. Secondly, the class only has one damage skill other than Biting Jabs, Power of the Light. Therefore, it's plainly obvious that the other classes, which have plenty of skills to support their DPS, would out-parse a Templar using Rapid Strikes as a spammable. But to relieve any doubt, let me, again, list any such ability of each class to emphasize this difference:hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »What if I told you you can use vMA weapons on a stamplar to parse on par with all the other stam classes?- Killer's Blade
- Relentless Focus
- Incapacitating Strike
- Venomous Claw (buffed by Cruel Flurry)
- Noxious Breath (buffed by Cruel Flurry)
- Flames of Oblivion
- Standard of Might
- Bound Armaments
- Hurricane (around 5,000+ DPS on its own)
- Power of the Light
The pattern for passive skills is the same. I'd gladly list those out too, but it's really much of the same story.Edited by CylindricalBox on December 9, 2016 5:24AMBox a.k.a. Ferdowsi (PC NA)4
