Two Handed Weapon Users Get the Shaft

ANGEL_BtVS

5-5-2 should be the standard for ALL characters no matter the weapon selection. Adjust everything else (abilities, passives, mat requirements, etc.) accordingly.

Doomslinger781

Tannus15 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Balance doesn't mean everyone has the same thing. 2-handed weapons traded a second set piece for increased utility and less materials to make and fully upgrade. It's lopsided for 2-handed weapons to remain as they are but count as 2 pieces of a set. They'd need to be overhauled losing some of their functions, and gaining increased material costs.

So remember their would be trade-offs if 2-handed weapons were to count as 2 pieces.

I'd take it.

From a stamina point of view I honestly don't see 2-h or Bow as being "superior" enough to DW for DPS to counter the loss of a 5 set bonus (or a monster set bonus)

In fact, that argument is pretty much rubbish. DW has superior AOE to 2H, Steel tornado is best AoE, rapid strikes is amazing single target, quick cloak is fantastic, blood craze is also amazing. On top of that the DW passives are awesome and easily comparable to 2H. If you want more healing you can take bloodthirst instead of rapid strikes, or just hand a 2h on the back bar for rally. In fact, the only time I use 2H in PvE is for Rally on the back bar because I haven't unlocked Vigor on that character yet.

I don't care about material costs. It's a one off payment. I don't care if I have to farm an extra item to complete the build. What's one more item? I don't care if 2-hander immediately counts as 2 set items or if they split it into the sword and scabbard or whatever.

Just give me the same build variety that DW and S&S get.

Well put.

It seems like the vast majority of push-back on this idea comes from pvp meta or the roughly 1% of players who partake in vMA.

And omg, no one is seriously asking that we just throw 2H (and bow and stave) the 2-piece bonus without some counterbalancing!

Furthermore, why isn't the 2H (and bow and stave) material cost already higher if they're considered equal to DW? As this guy said, a one-off payment does not make build balance.

GreenhaloX

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

For anyone who wants to wear two 5 piece sets and a monster set, you can. If you prefer to use skills or passives from a two-handed weapon then you can't.

I don't believe you are getting 'shafted' I believe you have to make choices when building your character, and there are costs and benefits to each choice. This adds to the fun of theory-crafting.

This post is about a 2H.. so yes, 2H are being shafted because a 2H toon can't wear two 5-pieces combo set with a 2-piece monster set. However, something to think about to get away from the 2-piece monster set; two 5-pieces set with a maelstrom weapon.

GreenSoup2HoT

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

For anyone who wants to wear two 5 piece sets and a monster set, you can. If you prefer to use skills or passives from a two-handed weapon then you can't.

I don't believe you are getting 'shafted' I believe you have to make choices when building your character, and there are costs and benefits to each choice. This adds to the fun of theory-crafting.

This post is about a 2H.. so yes, 2H are being shafted because a 2H toon can't wear two 5-pieces combo set with a 2-piece monster set. However, something to think about to get away from the 2-piece monster set; two 5-pieces set with a maelstrom weapon.

2h can wear clever alchemist or armour master with another 5 piece set and monster set. im just gonna repeat myself throughout this thread.

MaxwellC

As a stam player who use a 2h all the time... uh no we're fine because we yeah get rally as a skill the most powerful Heal over time in the game lol..

idk

Actually, not a bad idea.

My vMA staff would have 372 added spell damage and light/heavy attacks will donan additional 2600 damage to targets on my blockade.

Doubly delicious

Riejael

STEVIL wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I don't believe you are getting 'shafted' I believe you have to make choices when building your character, and there are costs and benefits to each choice. This adds to the fun of theory-crafting.

I fail to see the benefit that offsets the cost of the downsides.

Really?

How many tempers/resins does it take to make a single 2h weapon gold vs how many to make two daggers gold? Which of those counts as two set bonus vs one.

No offset there you see? None at all? Nothing?

How many vmsa or other tough content runs does it take to find a single sharpened 2h weapon vs how many to get two sharpened daggers? Which of those counts as two set bonus vs one.

No offset there you see? None at all? Nothing?

Until threads about how too many gold tempers/resins are flowing into everyones hands clogging inventories and how bored everyone has become since all the bis vmsa etc weapons drop all the time in sharp or can be bought for 5g every weekend... until those occur i see these as offsets.

You may not.

That's apples and oranges.

It can take someone just as long to get the ideal 2-hand setup as someone else who does it dual wielding simply due to RNG. And the game has been out for long enough that this is irrelevent.

A gold weapon BiS user of a dual wielding set has more set available to them than a person using a gold 2 hander.

You're basically saying 2 handers should be inferior because they're 2 handers.

Why not make medium armor useless compared to heavy too? By your reasoning, because its easier to kill mobs rather than search for nodes (and spending skill points to get them to show up at 30m) heavy armor should be superior in builds over medium.

Doesn't work that way.

STEVIL

Riejael wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I don't believe you are getting 'shafted' I believe you have to make choices when building your character, and there are costs and benefits to each choice. This adds to the fun of theory-crafting.

I fail to see the benefit that offsets the cost of the downsides.

Really?

How many tempers/resins does it take to make a single 2h weapon gold vs how many to make two daggers gold? Which of those counts as two set bonus vs one.

No offset there you see? None at all? Nothing?

How many vmsa or other tough content runs does it take to find a single sharpened 2h weapon vs how many to get two sharpened daggers? Which of those counts as two set bonus vs one.

No offset there you see? None at all? Nothing?

Until threads about how too many gold tempers/resins are flowing into everyones hands clogging inventories and how bored everyone has become since all the bis vmsa etc weapons drop all the time in sharp or can be bought for 5g every weekend... until those occur i see these as offsets.

You may not.

That's apples and oranges.

It can take someone just as long to get the ideal 2-hand setup as someone else who does it dual wielding simply due to RNG. And the game has been out for long enough that this is irrelevent.

A gold weapon BiS user of a dual wielding set has more set available to them than a person using a gold 2 hander.

You're basically saying 2 handers should be inferior because they're 2 handers.

Why not make medium armor useless compared to heavy too? By your reasoning, because its easier to kill mobs rather than search for nodes (and spending skill points to get them to show up at 30m) heavy armor should be superior in builds over medium.

Doesn't work that way.

First bold:
Really gotta love argument by maybe mighta coulda... yes by RNG it CAN take as long to get two dual wield perfect weapons as one 2Her, ot it could take just as long to get a thousand Dw sharpened daggers as it takes to get even one two handed weapon of any trait to drop from a stack of treasure maps.. it "can" but hey if thats the kind of logic you want to base game balance on...

consider this... a two handed weapon CAN crit ten times as often as all DW weapons in the game.. .its all RNG.... so given that we really dont need to buff two handed weapons.

See how silly CAN is?

odds are needing to get two weapons of specific traits is going to take longer than getting one.
if you cant even bring yourself to admit that... there is little point in a discussion about game balance in a game which is driven by odds and probabilities.

Really.

Also, the fact that the game has been around forever... that really is only applicable to those who alrerady have them... are you assuming nobody new is joining or that no new rebalancing efforts will ever change the metas for which weapons are needed?

Really. thats your solid case for irrelevance? Really?

And BTW if a doubling of how many you need isn't relevant because of what CAN occur if RNG goes the way you want, if two weapons vs one weapon to farm/create isn't significant enough to matter for you, then why so much argument about Two Bonuses vs one Bonus in a 5 count system? I mean really the argument is over 4 bonuses vs 5bonuses (or so it is claimed) or maybe 3 end set bonuses vs 2 end set bonuses yet two vs one is too small to even be relevant?

I know which of those ratios is bigger.

Second bold: No. no. No. let me say this clearly and point out the disconnnect.

Your previous sentence lists ONE WAY those two weapons differ. A way that favors DW. You then jump to the much broader statement that this leads to inferiority - that "2handers should be inferior" - which is more of a broader claim about the overall merit of the different weapon lines.

thats like saying A volvo has more cup holder than the prias so the prias is inferior.

No, a lot more goes into the value of a weapon line and skill line than just the set bonus effect.

So you cant jump from one difference, ignore all the others, and then paint it as overall inferior.

Especially since this is being generally framed into such a narrow band of content.

Finally, your medium armor thingy again shows a logic disconnect and again shows a reasoning disconnect.

For the weapons farming, the means of gaining them is the same. Whether it chests or various bosses etc you gain set weapons the same way 2H or Dw. so there is no inherent different cost involved and so if one is going to take on average twice as long as the other then that is a definitive advantage to one of them.

Follow me so far? keeping with the logic flow.

Ok so lets talk medium scraps vs ore. Are they like weapons the same to gather? You compared this as well so clearly you may think they are... but they are not.

Both can be acquired by two ways.

One: They can be deconned from piece drops or various other items. Now you can get metal items to decon in the form of weapons and armor but only get medium items in the form of armor. Thats a knock against Medium.

TWO: You can get scraps for medium from fighting animals (which you seem to think is apparently quicker than gathering ore) or you can gather ore for the metal stuff. but lets pay attemtion - picking up ore costs nothing... fighting beasties leads to gear loss and repair (typically).

So even if you get more medium quicker from beasties than you can harvest ore... you have a higher cost and more drop rate favorability in weapons providing metal for decons.

So, see there, several knocks against medium even if you accept the differences.

So you are comparing a case where acquisition is identical in all other ways but longer for one with a case where acquisition is vary offset between the two in ways that favor one in some ways and favor the other in others.

But the idea that difficulty to get or time to get should affect ability isnt new to this game for 2h weapons. You can find any number or threads about how folks think nirnhoned should be the best trait due to the common nature of all the other materials.

If this is the rationale methodology used to support the two-hand buffs by the set bonuses, then thats a pretty shakey foundation.

Instead of slapping an extra bonus on the 2h weapons, i would rather they (as a part of overall rebalancing and review of the weapons) add a second piece that also needs farming, crafting, etc to even out their costs/time. that also makes your "we already got ours" implication irrelevant so win-win.

Instead of changing the bonus structures at all, i would rather they revise the crafting rules to allow crafted sets at the 4pc not 5pc option to make crafted get a unique capability and also provide actual diversity, not just change the meta to a 2h model.

But then i would also like to see traits revisited to do things like remove infused and divines, make reinforced the baseline (inc armor by R% which basically helps vs almost all damage) and have a bunch of traits where you have things like "inc spell resist by CxR%%", "inc physical resist by CxR%", "inc spell resist vs crits by CxR%", "inc resist vs DOT by CxR%", ""inc resist vs AOE by CxR%", "inc healing rec by CxR%", etc so that it literally comes down to what content you are fighting that determines "best armor traits" and where the same gear you wear for city of ash is not gonna serve you well for more poison happy spider dens. Similar with weapons.

I prefer much more dynamic differences which really vary in "yield" by content differences so there are less "optimal" metas to promote more diversity.

less sameness in the name of diversity, not more sameness in the name of diversity.

it just seems obvious.

Anti_Virus

Bow, 2h and Staves should all be a 2 piece.

Solus

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

When it comes to being able to use two five piece sets + a monster set. Should two handed weapons count as two since they use two weapon slots?

Well they do, but i also only use my 2h bar as my support bar, so it doesn't really effect the set bonus for me and my build.

dem0n1k wrote: »

Dual staves for magicka folks would be awesome!

Alternatively, a wizard has a staff with a knob on the end... the knob could be part 2 ! "imma just farming for the sharpened knob of the spinner yo!"

I also like @Betheny suggestion of the bow & quiver being 2pc of a set.

lol, sharpened knob

Anti_Virus

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Kram8ion wrote: »

Nope choices aren't supposed to be easy and the way it is at least creates some diversity, which is desperately needed

Hold on, so more choices equal less diversity? I don't think that is the case. Some one above has a perfect idea by adding orbs to go with staves, quivers for bows, and something else for 2hand melee.

This would give, say a magic user atleast double the possibilities, that is inarguably more diversity. Really I have yet to see a single good reason as to why this change shouldn't be made.

In diablo, bows had quivers, wands has orbs but staffs and 2H were still 2 handed weapons. Sure the idea makes sense but it does destroy diversity a little bit because more people would use 2h weapons instead of dw/s+b. The balance we have now if fine.

Also you do more damage weaving light/heavy attacks inbetween attacks with a staff compared to using DW. Also read my comment above if you need more convincing.

Why would more people use 2H over DW?

DW still has massive advantages to 2H superior AoE, Superior Single target, and Heals etc.

Why oh why are you guys so againt build diversity? Have you ever played other MMOs? The do this stuff excellently and there is usually no "master weapon" like in this game.

You all contradict yourselves when you claim "everything will be the same" when right now that's the case I guess everone has to run DW or GTFO the other weapons should remain weak,subpar inferior, DW should be the Master weapon.

Xelrick

Well two handed it depends on your two 5 piece sets.

If you have one set that a proc or trigger set with a cooldown then it pointless to stay with that set until that cooldown over...so switch bar and work the other weapons 5 piece set... Example I use Master's Sword with Ebon (Shield) and Hatching Shell (Bow) on my Tank, especially only having 11 pieces that part of a set. I weapon swap to my bow to get a free Barrier then switch back for increase group HP. There no point staying on my bow bar for more then 15 sec unless I need to tank range...

So best option for two handed sets combos are two 5pieces that is either two proc set or one proc and one passive.

In other words make one weapon complete a set and other weapon completes the other set...

However this won't work for TBS.

zuto40

ZOS_JohanaB wrote: »

Several comments have been removed as they were adding little to nothing to the conversation and baiting other community members. As you continue to post please remember be civil, be constructive, and follow the community rules.

this comment adds nothing to the conversation and leads people on with a clickbait Z next to the thread making people think the devs have said something on the topic when they really havent

Xundiin

Anti_Virus wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Kram8ion wrote: »

Nope choices aren't supposed to be easy and the way it is at least creates some diversity, which is desperately needed

Hold on, so more choices equal less diversity? I don't think that is the case. Some one above has a perfect idea by adding orbs to go with staves, quivers for bows, and something else for 2hand melee.

This would give, say a magic user atleast double the possibilities, that is inarguably more diversity. Really I have yet to see a single good reason as to why this change shouldn't be made.

In diablo, bows had quivers, wands has orbs but staffs and 2H were still 2 handed weapons. Sure the idea makes sense but it does destroy diversity a little bit because more people would use 2h weapons instead of dw/s+b. The balance we have now if fine.

Also you do more damage weaving light/heavy attacks inbetween attacks with a staff compared to using DW. Also read my comment above if you need more convincing.

Why would more people use 2H over DW?

DW still has massive advantages to 2H superior AoE, Superior Single target, and Heals etc.

Why oh why are you guys so againt build diversity? Have you ever played other MMOs? The do this stuff excellently and there is usually no "master weapon" like in this game.

You all contradict yourselves when you claim "everything will be the same" when right now that's the case I guess everone has to run DW or GTFO the other weapons should remain weak,subpar inferior, DW should be the Master weapon.

Lol, no. DW has the better strengths in PVE, 2H has better strengths in PVP. your want for 2 set pc's added to 2h throws that out of balance. Not only do 2 hands cost very little in mats over 1 1h weapon/shield to make. It costs the same mats to upgrade to purple/gold.

What you want isn't build diversity, it's I want to use a 2h with all the benefits a DW has. This would make 2h's become very very strong and would out shine DW in almost every case. With the exception of sustained damage.

Also... rally is the strongest weapon heal in game out side of the resto staff line abilities. So yeah DW.... heals... ROFLMAO.

Anti_Virus

Xundiin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Kram8ion wrote: »

Nope choices aren't supposed to be easy and the way it is at least creates some diversity, which is desperately needed

Hold on, so more choices equal less diversity? I don't think that is the case. Some one above has a perfect idea by adding orbs to go with staves, quivers for bows, and something else for 2hand melee.

This would give, say a magic user atleast double the possibilities, that is inarguably more diversity. Really I have yet to see a single good reason as to why this change shouldn't be made.

In diablo, bows had quivers, wands has orbs but staffs and 2H were still 2 handed weapons. Sure the idea makes sense but it does destroy diversity a little bit because more people would use 2h weapons instead of dw/s+b. The balance we have now if fine.

Also you do more damage weaving light/heavy attacks inbetween attacks with a staff compared to using DW. Also read my comment above if you need more convincing.

Why would more people use 2H over DW?

DW still has massive advantages to 2H superior AoE, Superior Single target, and Heals etc.

Why oh why are you guys so againt build diversity? Have you ever played other MMOs? The do this stuff excellently and there is usually no "master weapon" like in this game.

You all contradict yourselves when you claim "everything will be the same" when right now that's the case I guess everone has to run DW or GTFO the other weapons should remain weak,subpar inferior, DW should be the Master weapon.

Lol, no. DW has the better strengths in PVE, 2H has better strengths in PVP. your want for 2 set pc's added to 2h throws that out of balance. Not only do 2 hands cost very little in mats over 1 1h weapon/shield to make. It costs the same mats to upgrade to purple/gold.

What you want isn't build diversity, it's I want to use a 2h with all the benefits a DW has. This would make 2h's become very very strong and would out shine DW in almost every case. With the exception of sustained damage.

Also... rally is the strongest weapon heal in game out side of the resto staff line abilities. So yeah DW.... heals... ROFLMAO.

Blood Thirst + Rending slashes + Rend >>>>>>>> Rally.

Also if you think Wrecking blow can out dps Rapid strikes then you're clearly wrong.

If you thing brawler will out dps Steel tornado in AoE you're clearly wrong.

Doctordarkspawn

STEVIL wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I don't believe you are getting 'shafted' I believe you have to make choices when building your character, and there are costs and benefits to each choice. This adds to the fun of theory-crafting.

I fail to see the benefit that offsets the cost of the downsides.

Really?

How many tempers/resins does it take to make a single 2h weapon gold vs how many to make two daggers gold? Which of those counts as two set bonus vs one.

No offset there you see? None at all? Nothing?

How many vmsa or other tough content runs does it take to find a single sharpened 2h weapon vs how many to get two sharpened daggers? Which of those counts as two set bonus vs one.

No offset there you see? None at all? Nothing?

Until threads about how too many gold tempers/resins are flowing into everyones hands clogging inventories and how bored everyone has become since all the bis vmsa etc weapons drop all the time in sharp or can be bought for 5g every weekend... until those occur i see these as offsets.

You may not.

That's apples and oranges.

It can take someone just as long to get the ideal 2-hand setup as someone else who does it dual wielding simply due to RNG. And the game has been out for long enough that this is irrelevent.

A gold weapon BiS user of a dual wielding set has more set available to them than a person using a gold 2 hander.

You're basically saying 2 handers should be inferior because they're 2 handers.

Why not make medium armor useless compared to heavy too? By your reasoning, because its easier to kill mobs rather than search for nodes (and spending skill points to get them to show up at 30m) heavy armor should be superior in builds over medium.

Doesn't work that way.

First bold:
Really gotta love argument by maybe mighta coulda... yes by RNG it CAN take as long to get two dual wield perfect weapons as one 2Her, ot it could take just as long to get a thousand Dw sharpened daggers as it takes to get even one two handed weapon of any trait to drop from a stack of treasure maps.. it "can" but hey if thats the kind of logic you want to base game balance on...

consider this... a two handed weapon CAN crit ten times as often as all DW weapons in the game.. .its all RNG.... so given that we really dont need to buff two handed weapons.

See how silly CAN is?

odds are needing to get two weapons of specific traits is going to take longer than getting one.
if you cant even bring yourself to admit that... there is little point in a discussion about game balance in a game which is driven by odds and probabilities.

Really.

Also, the fact that the game has been around forever... that really is only applicable to those who alrerady have them... are you assuming nobody new is joining or that no new rebalancing efforts will ever change the metas for which weapons are needed?

Really. thats your solid case for irrelevance? Really?

And BTW if a doubling of how many you need isn't relevant because of what CAN occur if RNG goes the way you want, if two weapons vs one weapon to farm/create isn't significant enough to matter for you, then why so much argument about Two Bonuses vs one Bonus in a 5 count system? I mean really the argument is over 4 bonuses vs 5bonuses (or so it is claimed) or maybe 3 end set bonuses vs 2 end set bonuses yet two vs one is too small to even be relevant?

I know which of those ratios is bigger.

Second bold: No. no. No. let me say this clearly and point out the disconnnect.

Your previous sentence lists ONE WAY those two weapons differ. A way that favors DW. You then jump to the much broader statement that this leads to inferiority - that "2handers should be inferior" - which is more of a broader claim about the overall merit of the different weapon lines.

thats like saying A volvo has more cup holder than the prias so the prias is inferior.

No, a lot more goes into the value of a weapon line and skill line than just the set bonus effect.

So you cant jump from one difference, ignore all the others, and then paint it as overall inferior.

Especially since this is being generally framed into such a narrow band of content.

Finally, your medium armor thingy again shows a logic disconnect and again shows a reasoning disconnect.

For the weapons farming, the means of gaining them is the same. Whether it chests or various bosses etc you gain set weapons the same way 2H or Dw. so there is no inherent different cost involved and so if one is going to take on average twice as long as the other then that is a definitive advantage to one of them.

Follow me so far? keeping with the logic flow.

Ok so lets talk medium scraps vs ore. Are they like weapons the same to gather? You compared this as well so clearly you may think they are... but they are not.

Both can be acquired by two ways.

One: They can be deconned from piece drops or various other items. Now you can get metal items to decon in the form of weapons and armor but only get medium items in the form of armor. Thats a knock against Medium.

TWO: You can get scraps for medium from fighting animals (which you seem to think is apparently quicker than gathering ore) or you can gather ore for the metal stuff. but lets pay attemtion - picking up ore costs nothing... fighting beasties leads to gear loss and repair (typically).

So even if you get more medium quicker from beasties than you can harvest ore... you have a higher cost and more drop rate favorability in weapons providing metal for decons.

So, see there, several knocks against medium even if you accept the differences.

So you are comparing a case where acquisition is identical in all other ways but longer for one with a case where acquisition is vary offset between the two in ways that favor one in some ways and favor the other in others.

But the idea that difficulty to get or time to get should affect ability isnt new to this game for 2h weapons. You can find any number or threads about how folks think nirnhoned should be the best trait due to the common nature of all the other materials.

If this is the rationale methodology used to support the two-hand buffs by the set bonuses, then thats a pretty shakey foundation.

Instead of slapping an extra bonus on the 2h weapons, i would rather they (as a part of overall rebalancing and review of the weapons) add a second piece that also needs farming, crafting, etc to even out their costs/time. that also makes your "we already got ours" implication irrelevant so win-win.

Instead of changing the bonus structures at all, i would rather they revise the crafting rules to allow crafted sets at the 4pc not 5pc option to make crafted get a unique capability and also provide actual diversity, not just change the meta to a 2h model.

But then i would also like to see traits revisited to do things like remove infused and divines, make reinforced the baseline (inc armor by R% which basically helps vs almost all damage) and have a bunch of traits where you have things like "inc spell resist by CxR%%", "inc physical resist by CxR%", "inc spell resist vs crits by CxR%", "inc resist vs DOT by CxR%", ""inc resist vs AOE by CxR%", "inc healing rec by CxR%", etc so that it literally comes down to what content you are fighting that determines "best armor traits" and where the same gear you wear for city of ash is not gonna serve you well for more poison happy spider dens. Similar with weapons.

I prefer much more dynamic differences which really vary in "yield" by content differences so there are less "optimal" metas to promote more diversity.

less sameness in the name of diversity, not more sameness in the name of diversity.

it just seems obvious.

I'd rather have multiple weapon specs that do the same thing in different ways then one way to play the game and one way to suck royal.

yttoks

@ArchMiken If an execute is what you wanted then the execute right there is a nice one. I can think of many ults I would use in place of this, Dawnbreaker chiefly among them. It's a poor choices even in that context.

Lets face it, Twohanded sucks in PVE and no one is using it because it's not usefull. I keep seeing people saying they see it used, and I would love to see where their playing and on what server because on PC NA, I pug pledges near daily and see no one using it and hitting acceptable parses with it in dungeons.

I welcome people to link me to builds that do not require Maelstrom or master crap to be viable, I'd love to see it.

The problem is of course PVP. They wont buff it because the PVP crowd will scream and they cant nerf duel wield because then nothing is left. PVP, being the source of all PVE ballance ills since MMO creation. Twohanded is relegated to PVP. it's clear from the ultimate choice that's where the designers have chosen to stick it, telling practically anyone who wants to play a twohander wielder to suck a fat one.

It can be fixed. They just dont wanna fix it. [/quote]

Eh, I run a two-hander pretty much exclusively, so they're definitely out there. But you are right, they are weak compared to DW, no question. I'm old and not very good, but my toon is decked out pretty nicely, and I just don't get the kinda numbers I hear people talking about. Some of that is skill, sure, but some of it is just the weakness of 2H builds in PvE.

Good enough for run-of-the-mill vet pledges, but probably not for highest end content, and definitely not for leaderboard runs.

yttoks

Xundiin wrote: »

You can have it count as 2 set pieces when it cost double the mats to make, enchant, and to raise in power.

Deal!

GreenhaloX

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

For anyone who wants to wear two 5 piece sets and a monster set, you can. If you prefer to use skills or passives from a two-handed weapon then you can't.

I don't believe you are getting 'shafted' I believe you have to make choices when building your character, and there are costs and benefits to each choice. This adds to the fun of theory-crafting.

This post is about a 2H.. so yes, 2H are being shafted because a 2H toon can't wear two 5-pieces combo set with a 2-piece monster set. However, something to think about to get away from the 2-piece monster set; two 5-pieces set with a maelstrom weapon.

2h can wear clever alchemist or armour master with another 5 piece set and monster set. im just gonna repeat myself throughout this thread.

You can wear or combine whatever you want, but you're not going to get two 5-piece perks and additional perk from the 2-piece monster set, for a 2H. For 2H, there is only 11 slots. 7 for armor + 3 for jewelries + 1 for weapon = 11! So, how you going to combine "two 5-pieces armor sets" = 10, plus 2-piece monster set; that is total of 12??!! You can't do it for 2H, period! Although, would be nice to be able to have 12 slots for 2H.

SwaminoNowlino

GreenhaloX wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

For anyone who wants to wear two 5 piece sets and a monster set, you can. If you prefer to use skills or passives from a two-handed weapon then you can't.

I don't believe you are getting 'shafted' I believe you have to make choices when building your character, and there are costs and benefits to each choice. This adds to the fun of theory-crafting.

This post is about a 2H.. so yes, 2H are being shafted because a 2H toon can't wear two 5-pieces combo set with a 2-piece monster set. However, something to think about to get away from the 2-piece monster set; two 5-pieces set with a maelstrom weapon.

2h can wear clever alchemist or armour master with another 5 piece set and monster set. im just gonna repeat myself throughout this thread.

You can wear or combine whatever you want, but you're not going to get two 5-piece perks and additional perk from the 2-piece monster set, for a 2H. For 2H, there is only 11 slots. 7 for armor + 3 for jewelries + 1 for weapon = 11! So, how you going to combine "two 5-pieces armor sets" = 10, plus 2-piece monster set; that is total of 12??!! You can't do it for 2H, period! Although, would be nice to be able to have 12 slots for 2H.

Simple. 4 Clever alchemist on the body, clever alchemist weapon backbar, monster set, jewery+1 body piece and weapon on the front bar. Simple. Run this on just about every PVP build I have.

Galwylin

Wait... do two handers look like two individual items? If they are two then why not hold one in each hand. You could shorten the name too. Greatsword becomes just sword. Change the skill to match and voila! Your wish is granted!

STEVIL

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

For anyone who wants to wear two 5 piece sets and a monster set, you can. If you prefer to use skills or passives from a two-handed weapon then you can't.

I don't believe you are getting 'shafted' I believe you have to make choices when building your character, and there are costs and benefits to each choice. This adds to the fun of theory-crafting.

This post is about a 2H.. so yes, 2H are being shafted because a 2H toon can't wear two 5-pieces combo set with a 2-piece monster set. However, something to think about to get away from the 2-piece monster set; two 5-pieces set with a maelstrom weapon.

2h can wear clever alchemist or armour master with another 5 piece set and monster set. im just gonna repeat myself throughout this thread.

You can wear or combine whatever you want, but you're not going to get two 5-piece perks and additional perk from the 2-piece monster set, for a 2H. For 2H, there is only 11 slots. 7 for armor + 3 for jewelries + 1 for weapon = 11! So, how you going to combine "two 5-pieces armor sets" = 10, plus 2-piece monster set; that is total of 12??!! You can't do it for 2H, period! Although, would be nice to be able to have 12 slots for 2H.

Simple. 4 Clever alchemist on the body, clever alchemist weapon backbar, monster set, jewery+1 body piece and weapon on the front bar. Simple. Run this on just about every PVP build I have.

Or run viper gsword, 3 viper jewel 1 viper piece. Add 4 another proc say night terrot or your pick. Add velidreth mons. Backbar night tertor2h.

Jump in with crit chg, viper procs veli maybe iirc swap running terror/other for 4s, then back to viper for one hit.

What 2h-buffer want to ignore is most every set with a cooldown on its 5pc is ideally suited for 2h builds, swapping out the effect while its in cooldown. Other examples - doesnt one set 5pc proc when alchemy poison triggers? When it procs, you got 10s cooldown so... swap out the useless for 8-9s.

This means low and behold some sets are better suited for 2h use than others.

If 2h gets the christmas dinner sized helping of "more sameness please" wrapped in their "more diversity" wrapping paper this distinction will be mostly eliminated and dw and 2h will have more of the same gains wearing the same sets instead of 2h optimizing with sets suited to 2h use instead of just the same as dw.