Burning, Chilled, and Concussion effects

Alucardo

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Alanar

I can confirm that some monsters are immune to these status effects. For example, spider daedra cannot be concussed. I suspect that is because they are resistant to lightning. I'm not sure if monsters weak to lightning are more likely to get concussed, but seems worth testing.

paulsimonps

I do know that attacking a mob that is weak to an element causes them to have literally Zero resistance towards that attack and it can also cause a secondary effect to happen. It simply does a bit more damage. Fire got Explosion, Ice got Deep Freeze and I can't remember what lightning was. But I am not sure about applying the debuff effects to weak targets.

Toast_STS

Skeletons, storm atronach and spider daedra are immune to concussion for sure. There may be more.

Nestor

Enemies in TES games have always had weaknesses or resistances to different kinds of attacks. So, it makes sense this carries over into this game. Here is some testing that a player did more than a year ago.

Feynn wrote: »

So, since I am utterly unable to do any kind of data-mining, I simply crafted four different staves and I used my damage-tracker add-on (FTC). I tested several kinds of mobs with light attacks, and I recorded the damage I did to each. Obviously I only tried a few mobs here and there, I couldn't do an extremely thorough testing. Here is what I found:

The differences between different staves are rather small, but they are there.

In every case, the Restoration staff does the least amount of damage.

Apart from Restoration staves, most mobs seem to follow a general rule: ice and fire do the same amount of damage, shock does a bit more damage than ice and fire. This rule applies also to some mobs which, from a purely lore-based point of view, should have different weaknesses and resistances. For example: a Storm Atronach takes more damage from a lightining staff than from a fire staff (even though Storm Atronachs are supposed to be resistant to shock); a Frost Troll also takes more damage from a lightning staff than from a fire staff (even though trolls are supposed to be weak to fire). The rule applies to many daedra as well, for example clannfears and dremora. In this case it is lore-appropriate insofar as it takes into account these daedra's weakness to shock, but it doesn't take into account their resistance to fire.

Fire and Frost Atronachs seem to be lore-appropriate. From highest to lowest damage, they go as follows:
Fire Atronach: Frost, Shock, Fire, Restoration
Frost Atronach: Fire, Shock, Frost, Restoration
I can't quite understand why, but Storm Atronachs on the other hand follow the general rule: Shock, Fire and Frost, Restoration.

Undead follow some rather strange patterns, again not very lore appropriate. Skeletons, draugr and humanoid ghosts follow the general rule, so they take more damage from shock, and equal damage from ice and fire (thus contradicting the lore). Zombies and wraiths, on the other hand, take the most damage from fire, followed by shock and ice. Restoration ranks last in every case, even against the undead.

Spriggans also seem to be lore appropriate, as they take more damage from fire than from shock.

Spriggans and zombies also take "explosion" damage from fire attacks, but I didn't see it for any other mobs (maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention).

In conclusion: there seems to be a general ranking of damage types which is followed for most mobs. Some mobs divert from this general ranking in ways which are consistent with the lore. Other mobs follow this ranking anyway, even in cases where the lore would dictate otherwise. So weaknesses and resistances are lore-appropriate in some cases only.

Obviously it should be pointed out that I only tested this on a few mobs in some specific areas. It may well be that a storm atronach in Auridon behaves differently from a storm atronach in Craglorn, but I have not tested that.

Birdovic

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Alucardo

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged definitely seems to increase the probability of these effects. It's not nearly as useless as I thought it was, especially considering you can still perma power lash if targets are concussed from blockade of storms. Certainly made grinding a breeze.

Birdovic

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged definitely seems to increase the probability of these effects. It's not nearly as useless as I thought it was, especially considering you can still perma power lash if targets are concussed from blockade of storms. Certainly made grinding a breeze.

Btw, have you tested, if theres a Cooldown on these effects? Is it possible to perma chill someone, for instance?
Like putting all possible frost dots on a person?

Alucardo

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged definitely seems to increase the probability of these effects. It's not nearly as useless as I thought it was, especially considering you can still perma power lash if targets are concussed from blockade of storms. Certainly made grinding a breeze.

Btw, have you tested, if theres a Cooldown on these effects? Is it possible to perma chill someone, for instance?
Like putting all possible frost dots on a person?

Good point. Nope, I haven't actually tested the cool down. Whenever I'm fighting NPCs with lots of health (ie: bosses), the concussion effect does seem to proc A LOT though.

Birdovic

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged definitely seems to increase the probability of these effects. It's not nearly as useless as I thought it was, especially considering you can still perma power lash if targets are concussed from blockade of storms. Certainly made grinding a breeze.

Btw, have you tested, if theres a Cooldown on these effects? Is it possible to perma chill someone, for instance?
Like putting all possible frost dots on a person?

Good point. Nope, I haven't actually tested the cool down. Whenever I'm fighting NPCs with lots of health (ie: bosses), the concussion effect does seem to proc A LOT though.

Man I wish sharpend wasnt so mandatory as it currently is, and charged a valid option (out of PvE), I'd love playing around with that.
I could see a Frost Build where enemies are constantly chilled/slowed (== annoyed) thanks to Charged, but then again the dealt Damage would disappoint, I guess, leaving a support build the only interesting option, or...I simply try it.

Alucardo

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged definitely seems to increase the probability of these effects. It's not nearly as useless as I thought it was, especially considering you can still perma power lash if targets are concussed from blockade of storms. Certainly made grinding a breeze.

Btw, have you tested, if theres a Cooldown on these effects? Is it possible to perma chill someone, for instance?
Like putting all possible frost dots on a person?

Good point. Nope, I haven't actually tested the cool down. Whenever I'm fighting NPCs with lots of health (ie: bosses), the concussion effect does seem to proc A LOT though.

Man I wish sharpend wasnt so mandatory as it currently is, and charged a valid option (out of PvE), I'd love playing around with that.
I could see a Frost Build where enemies are constantly chilled/slowed (== annoyed) thanks to Charged, but then again the dealt Damage would disappoint, I guess, leaving a support build the only interesting option, or...I simply try it.

It's not TOO bad as long as you wear Spinners to make up for the lack of Sharpened.. but it's still hard to give up sharpened for a charged weapon

Autolycus

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged weapons definitely have a quantifiable value, so they are of some use. The issue we face here is whether or not that % increase is valuable enough to use. With sets like Burning Spellweave, Charged is conceivably useful, since the set provides for a 20% chance to apply Burning. This means that a gold Charged weapon will increase your chance to apply Burning by 225%, or 3.25 * .20 = 0.65, or 65% chance to apply Burning (note that a 100% increase would be twice the chance, therefore we multiply by 2.00, or 3.25 for 225%. If we used 2.25, it would only be a 125% increase). However, I note the following:

Elemental Force:
With Destruction Staff equipped:
Increases your chance of afflicting enemies with Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects by 100%.

I believe the base chance to apply a status effect from an ability is 20% 10%. Thus, Elemental Force increases this 10% to 20%. Adding a legendary Charged weapon boosts this 20% to 3.25 * 0.20 = or 65% chance.

Burning Spellweave affords the same chance to apply Burning as the base chance, not an additional chance. With Burning Spellweave, we have 20% base chance to apply Burning, 100% increase from Elemental Force (assuming destro equipped), and Charged trait for a total of 0.20 * 2.00 * 3.25 = 1.30 or 130%.

In either case, using a charged destro staff more than guarantees the status effect from skills specifically (for example, light attacks have a different base chance to apply status effects). The question we want to ask at the bottom line here is whether or not that increased or guaranteed status effect chance outpaces the trait of another weapon.

Unfortunately, guaranteeing a status effect still doesn't outpace the effects of Sharpened or Precise traits. This is perhaps a discussion for a separate thread, however. Without going into too much detail on this portion of the discussion, I would note that most builds have multiple sources to proc the Burning status effect, like WoE, light attacks, Force Pulse, etc. (and even more as a MagDK), which means we are already stacking our chances of applying burning. It would be ideal to use something like Combat Metrics to measure what the uptime and damage of Burning status actually is, and in most cases it should be reasonably high with so many methods to apply it. The higher it is without Charged, the less useful Charged actually is.

As far as I know, and feel free to correct me if there is evidence to the contrary, status effects do not make an enemy more susceptible to that type of damage unless specifically stated, like with Force Pulse, which does extra damage to nearby enemies if they were already afflicted with that specific status effect. An enemy's resistance to a particular element is contingent upon their armor/spell resist (and elemental resistances are just a specific type of spell resist), and as far as I know, the only way to reduce this is through penetration (e.g. Sharpened). While some enemies have higher resistances to a particular element, they are only more susceptible to another element if their resistance is naturally lower, or effectively lowered in some way. Status effects do not inherently do this; if there is some set or mechanic I have missed, then perhaps it is indeed possible, but nothing comes to mind in that department.

Alanar

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged definitely seems to increase the probability of these effects. It's not nearly as useless as I thought it was, especially considering you can still perma power lash if targets are concussed from blockade of storms. Certainly made grinding a breeze.

Btw, have you tested, if theres a Cooldown on these effects? Is it possible to perma chill someone, for instance?
Like putting all possible frost dots on a person?

Yes, it is possible to have 100% uptime with these effects with a Charged Destruction staff and an elemental glyph of the appropriate kind.

Alanar

Autolycus wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged weapons definitely have a quantifiable value, so they are of some use. The issue we face here is whether or not that % increase is valuable enough to use. With sets like Burning Spellweave, Charged is conceivably useful, since the set provides for a 20% chance to apply Burning. This means that a gold Charged weapon will increase your chance to apply Burning by 225%, or 3.25 * .20 = 0.65, or 65% chance to apply Burning (note that a 100% increase would be twice the chance, therefore we multiply by 2.00, or 3.25 for 225%. If we used 2.25, it would only be a 125% increase). However, I note the following:

Elemental Force:
With Destruction Staff equipped:
Increases your chance of afflicting enemies with Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects by 100%.

I believe the base chance to apply a status effect from an ability is 20%. Thus, Elemental Force increases this 20% to 40%. Adding a legendary Charged weapon boosts this 40% to 3.25 * 0.40 = 1.30 or 130% chance, or guaranteed (overkill).

Unfortunately, Burning Spellweave affords the same chance to apply Burning as the base chance, not an additional chance. So, we have 20% base chance to apply Burning, 100% increase from Elemental Force (assuming destro equipped), and Charged trait for a total of 0.20 * 2.00 * 3.25 = 1.30 or 130%.

In either case, using a charged destro staff more than guarantees the status effect from skills specifically (for example, light attacks have a different base chance to apply status effects). The question we want to ask at the bottom line here is whether or not that increased or guaranteed status effect chance outpaces the trait of another weapon.

Unfortunately, guaranteeing a status effect still doesn't outpace the effects of Sharpened or Precise traits. This is perhaps a discussion for a separate thread, however. Without going into too much detail on this portion of the discussion, I would note that most builds have multiple sources to proc the Burning status effect, like WoE, light attacks, Force Pulse, etc. (and even more as a MagDK), which means we are already stacking our chances of applying burning. It would be ideal to use something like Combat Metrics to measure what the uptime and damage of Burning status actually is, and in most cases it should be reasonably high with so many methods to apply it. The higher it is without Charged, the less useful Charged actually is.

As far as I know, and feel free to correct me if there is evidence to the contrary, status effects do not make an enemy more susceptible to that type of damage unless specifically stated, like with Force Pulse, which does extra damage to nearby enemies if they were already afflicted with that specific status effect. An enemy's resistance to a particular element is contingent upon their armor/spell resist (and elemental resistances are just a specific type of spell resist), and as far as I know, the only way to reduce this is through penetration (e.g. Sharpened). While some enemies have higher resistances to a particular element, they are only more susceptible to another element if their resistance is naturally lower, or effectively lowered in some way. Status effects do not inherently do this; if there is some set or mechanic I have missed, then perhaps it is indeed possible, but nothing comes to mind in that department.

The base rate for abilities is only 10%, with 5% for DOTS, 3% for AOE, and 1% for AOE DOTs. The highest chance is for elemental glyphs which give a 20% chance. Bonuses to that chance are additive, so the highest possible chance from a single attack is a Charged Destruction Staff with an elemental glyph, giving a chance of 84% (20% * (1 + 1 + 2.2)).

Autolycus

Alanar wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged weapons definitely have a quantifiable value, so they are of some use. The issue we face here is whether or not that % increase is valuable enough to use. With sets like Burning Spellweave, Charged is conceivably useful, since the set provides for a 20% chance to apply Burning. This means that a gold Charged weapon will increase your chance to apply Burning by 225%, or 3.25 * .20 = 0.65, or 65% chance to apply Burning (note that a 100% increase would be twice the chance, therefore we multiply by 2.00, or 3.25 for 225%. If we used 2.25, it would only be a 125% increase). However, I note the following:

Elemental Force:
With Destruction Staff equipped:
Increases your chance of afflicting enemies with Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects by 100%.

I believe the base chance to apply a status effect from an ability is 20%. Thus, Elemental Force increases this 20% to 40%. Adding a legendary Charged weapon boosts this 40% to 3.25 * 0.40 = 1.30 or 130% chance, or guaranteed (overkill).

Unfortunately, Burning Spellweave affords the same chance to apply Burning as the base chance, not an additional chance. So, we have 20% base chance to apply Burning, 100% increase from Elemental Force (assuming destro equipped), and Charged trait for a total of 0.20 * 2.00 * 3.25 = 1.30 or 130%.

In either case, using a charged destro staff more than guarantees the status effect from skills specifically (for example, light attacks have a different base chance to apply status effects). The question we want to ask at the bottom line here is whether or not that increased or guaranteed status effect chance outpaces the trait of another weapon.

Unfortunately, guaranteeing a status effect still doesn't outpace the effects of Sharpened or Precise traits. This is perhaps a discussion for a separate thread, however. Without going into too much detail on this portion of the discussion, I would note that most builds have multiple sources to proc the Burning status effect, like WoE, light attacks, Force Pulse, etc. (and even more as a MagDK), which means we are already stacking our chances of applying burning. It would be ideal to use something like Combat Metrics to measure what the uptime and damage of Burning status actually is, and in most cases it should be reasonably high with so many methods to apply it. The higher it is without Charged, the less useful Charged actually is.

As far as I know, and feel free to correct me if there is evidence to the contrary, status effects do not make an enemy more susceptible to that type of damage unless specifically stated, like with Force Pulse, which does extra damage to nearby enemies if they were already afflicted with that specific status effect. An enemy's resistance to a particular element is contingent upon their armor/spell resist (and elemental resistances are just a specific type of spell resist), and as far as I know, the only way to reduce this is through penetration (e.g. Sharpened). While some enemies have higher resistances to a particular element, they are only more susceptible to another element if their resistance is naturally lower, or effectively lowered in some way. Status effects do not inherently do this; if there is some set or mechanic I have missed, then perhaps it is indeed possible, but nothing comes to mind in that department.

The base rate for abilities is only 10%, with 5% for DOTS, 3% for AOE, and 1% for AOE DOTs. The highest chance is for elemental glyphs which give a 20% chance. Bonuses to that chance are additive, so the highest possible chance from a single attack is a Charged Destruction Staff with an elemental glyph, giving a chance of 84% (20% * (1 + 1 + 2.2)).

Great, thank you for the clarification. I had some difficulties finding a reliable source for these base values without being able to login and check for myself. I had to settle on old patch notes, which didn't include everything I was looking for. I'm glad you were able to clarify.

Any chance this is published somewhere, or are these your own findings? If published I would very much like a link, especially if it contains more information than just base values. I like reading up on this stuff.

Toast_STS

Autolycus wrote: »

Alanar wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged weapons definitely have a quantifiable value, so they are of some use. The issue we face here is whether or not that % increase is valuable enough to use. With sets like Burning Spellweave, Charged is conceivably useful, since the set provides for a 20% chance to apply Burning. This means that a gold Charged weapon will increase your chance to apply Burning by 225%, or 3.25 * .20 = 0.65, or 65% chance to apply Burning (note that a 100% increase would be twice the chance, therefore we multiply by 2.00, or 3.25 for 225%. If we used 2.25, it would only be a 125% increase). However, I note the following:

Elemental Force:
With Destruction Staff equipped:
Increases your chance of afflicting enemies with Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects by 100%.

I believe the base chance to apply a status effect from an ability is 20%. Thus, Elemental Force increases this 20% to 40%. Adding a legendary Charged weapon boosts this 40% to 3.25 * 0.40 = 1.30 or 130% chance, or guaranteed (overkill).

Unfortunately, Burning Spellweave affords the same chance to apply Burning as the base chance, not an additional chance. So, we have 20% base chance to apply Burning, 100% increase from Elemental Force (assuming destro equipped), and Charged trait for a total of 0.20 * 2.00 * 3.25 = 1.30 or 130%.

In either case, using a charged destro staff more than guarantees the status effect from skills specifically (for example, light attacks have a different base chance to apply status effects). The question we want to ask at the bottom line here is whether or not that increased or guaranteed status effect chance outpaces the trait of another weapon.

Unfortunately, guaranteeing a status effect still doesn't outpace the effects of Sharpened or Precise traits. This is perhaps a discussion for a separate thread, however. Without going into too much detail on this portion of the discussion, I would note that most builds have multiple sources to proc the Burning status effect, like WoE, light attacks, Force Pulse, etc. (and even more as a MagDK), which means we are already stacking our chances of applying burning. It would be ideal to use something like Combat Metrics to measure what the uptime and damage of Burning status actually is, and in most cases it should be reasonably high with so many methods to apply it. The higher it is without Charged, the less useful Charged actually is.

As far as I know, and feel free to correct me if there is evidence to the contrary, status effects do not make an enemy more susceptible to that type of damage unless specifically stated, like with Force Pulse, which does extra damage to nearby enemies if they were already afflicted with that specific status effect. An enemy's resistance to a particular element is contingent upon their armor/spell resist (and elemental resistances are just a specific type of spell resist), and as far as I know, the only way to reduce this is through penetration (e.g. Sharpened). While some enemies have higher resistances to a particular element, they are only more susceptible to another element if their resistance is naturally lower, or effectively lowered in some way. Status effects do not inherently do this; if there is some set or mechanic I have missed, then perhaps it is indeed possible, but nothing comes to mind in that department.

The base rate for abilities is only 10%, with 5% for DOTS, 3% for AOE, and 1% for AOE DOTs. The highest chance is for elemental glyphs which give a 20% chance. Bonuses to that chance are additive, so the highest possible chance from a single attack is a Charged Destruction Staff with an elemental glyph, giving a chance of 84% (20% * (1 + 1 + 2.2)).

Great, thank you for the clarification. I had some difficulties finding a reliable source for these base values without being able to login and check for myself. I had to settle on old patch notes, which didn't include everything I was looking for. I'm glad you were able to clarify.

Any chance this is published somewhere, or are these your own findings? If published I would very much like a link, especially if it contains more information than just base values. I like reading up on this stuff.

This is from the 2.1 patch notes.

Standardized the chance an ability has to apply a secondary effect, such as burning, chilled, or concussed. These chances are:
Weapon enchants 20%
Standard ability 10%
Area of effect abilities 5%
Damage over time abilities 3%
Area of effect damage over time abilities 1%

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212035/pc-mac-patch-notes-v2-1-4#latest

Toast_STS

double post sorry

Autolycus

Toast_STS wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Alanar wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged weapons definitely have a quantifiable value, so they are of some use. The issue we face here is whether or not that % increase is valuable enough to use. With sets like Burning Spellweave, Charged is conceivably useful, since the set provides for a 20% chance to apply Burning. This means that a gold Charged weapon will increase your chance to apply Burning by 225%, or 3.25 * .20 = 0.65, or 65% chance to apply Burning (note that a 100% increase would be twice the chance, therefore we multiply by 2.00, or 3.25 for 225%. If we used 2.25, it would only be a 125% increase). However, I note the following:

Elemental Force:
With Destruction Staff equipped:
Increases your chance of afflicting enemies with Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects by 100%.

I believe the base chance to apply a status effect from an ability is 20%. Thus, Elemental Force increases this 20% to 40%. Adding a legendary Charged weapon boosts this 40% to 3.25 * 0.40 = 1.30 or 130% chance, or guaranteed (overkill).

Unfortunately, Burning Spellweave affords the same chance to apply Burning as the base chance, not an additional chance. So, we have 20% base chance to apply Burning, 100% increase from Elemental Force (assuming destro equipped), and Charged trait for a total of 0.20 * 2.00 * 3.25 = 1.30 or 130%.

In either case, using a charged destro staff more than guarantees the status effect from skills specifically (for example, light attacks have a different base chance to apply status effects). The question we want to ask at the bottom line here is whether or not that increased or guaranteed status effect chance outpaces the trait of another weapon.

Unfortunately, guaranteeing a status effect still doesn't outpace the effects of Sharpened or Precise traits. This is perhaps a discussion for a separate thread, however. Without going into too much detail on this portion of the discussion, I would note that most builds have multiple sources to proc the Burning status effect, like WoE, light attacks, Force Pulse, etc. (and even more as a MagDK), which means we are already stacking our chances of applying burning. It would be ideal to use something like Combat Metrics to measure what the uptime and damage of Burning status actually is, and in most cases it should be reasonably high with so many methods to apply it. The higher it is without Charged, the less useful Charged actually is.

As far as I know, and feel free to correct me if there is evidence to the contrary, status effects do not make an enemy more susceptible to that type of damage unless specifically stated, like with Force Pulse, which does extra damage to nearby enemies if they were already afflicted with that specific status effect. An enemy's resistance to a particular element is contingent upon their armor/spell resist (and elemental resistances are just a specific type of spell resist), and as far as I know, the only way to reduce this is through penetration (e.g. Sharpened). While some enemies have higher resistances to a particular element, they are only more susceptible to another element if their resistance is naturally lower, or effectively lowered in some way. Status effects do not inherently do this; if there is some set or mechanic I have missed, then perhaps it is indeed possible, but nothing comes to mind in that department.

The base rate for abilities is only 10%, with 5% for DOTS, 3% for AOE, and 1% for AOE DOTs. The highest chance is for elemental glyphs which give a 20% chance. Bonuses to that chance are additive, so the highest possible chance from a single attack is a Charged Destruction Staff with an elemental glyph, giving a chance of 84% (20% * (1 + 1 + 2.2)).

Great, thank you for the clarification. I had some difficulties finding a reliable source for these base values without being able to login and check for myself. I had to settle on old patch notes, which didn't include everything I was looking for. I'm glad you were able to clarify.

Any chance this is published somewhere, or are these your own findings? If published I would very much like a link, especially if it contains more information than just base values. I like reading up on this stuff.

This is from the 2.1 patch notes.

Standardized the chance an ability has to apply a secondary effect, such as burning, chilled, or concussed. These chances are:
Weapon enchants 20%
Standard ability 10%
Area of effect abilities 5%
Damage over time abilities 3%
Area of effect damage over time abilities 1%

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212035/pc-mac-patch-notes-v2-1-4#latest

Thanks! We used the same source, except I think I made an error and used the enchant value instead of the ability value. Appreciate the correction, glad to have the right answer here. I made a few strikethroughs on my first post to indicate where I made errors, and put in the proper values.

worsttankever

What if you had an inferno staff (chance to apply burning) with a shock enchant (chance to apply concussed). Is this a way to get more benefit out of the "charged" trait - by increasing your chance for more than one status?

Toast_STS

worsttankever wrote: »

What if you had an inferno staff (chance to apply burning) with a shock enchant (chance to apply concussed). Is this a way to get more benefit out of the "charged" trait - by increasing your chance for more than one status?

Not really. I think it's best to focus on one status effect that suits your build. Flame for Burning spell Weave builds, ice for snare builds and lightning for heavy attack builds. Otherwise you are better of going for sharpened trait.

caperon

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged definitely seems to increase the probability of these effects. It's not nearly as useless as I thought it was, especially considering you can still perma power lash if targets are concussed from blockade of storms. Certainly made grinding a breeze.

Btw, have you tested, if theres a Cooldown on these effects? Is it possible to perma chill someone, for instance?
Like putting all possible frost dots on a person?

Good point. Nope, I haven't actually tested the cool down. Whenever I'm fighting NPCs with lots of health (ie: bosses), the concussion effect does seem to proc A LOT though.

Does power lash proc from concussed effect on bosses? Lets say you are in a trial with 3 magicka sorc using lot of lighting, would the DK be power lashing constantly? I allwasy wanted to try it. Would be super cool stay 5 minutes spining around xD

Toast_STS

caperon wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Birdovic wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Do these have a greater chance to proc based on the targets resistance to a specific type of elemental damage? As an example, with a charged lightning staff, I find undead and daedra will be concussed from WoE 9/10 times. Other enemies, such as bandits, significantly less.
I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it seems to add up.

Finally "charged" is useful, right?

You could try a Frost, Shock and Flame Staff, all with charged.
Then do the same test as above, and see if they get burn/chilled as often as you could concuss them with Shock.

If thats the case, then its due to the charged trait.
But if not, then you, linking it to specific type of elemental resistance, are right.

Charged definitely seems to increase the probability of these effects. It's not nearly as useless as I thought it was, especially considering you can still perma power lash if targets are concussed from blockade of storms. Certainly made grinding a breeze.

Btw, have you tested, if theres a Cooldown on these effects? Is it possible to perma chill someone, for instance?
Like putting all possible frost dots on a person?

Good point. Nope, I haven't actually tested the cool down. Whenever I'm fighting NPCs with lots of health (ie: bosses), the concussion effect does seem to proc A LOT though.

Does power lash proc from concussed effect on bosses? Lets say you are in a trial with 3 magicka sorc using lot of lighting, would the DK be power lashing constantly? I allwasy wanted to try it. Would be super cool stay 5 minutes spining around xD

Not exactly. Power lash procs on "off balance" enemies. Concussed enemies in a lightning wall of elements will be put off balance. There seems to be a cooldown on the off balance proc though and in a group a heavy attack will use up the "off balance". You will still get a lot of free power lashes but not every time.

Edit: Also some bosses are immune to concussion but most of them are not.