Gambling addiction, I lost a playmate today....

Integral1900

Hello
A good friend had to leave the game he loves today.

He has struggled with an addictive personality all his life, spent a few years in an institution, gambling was one of the strongest pulls, in the past this need has sent him down some very dark paths. Addiction is not a matter of choice, it's a malfunction of the brains craving for risk vs reward, it's the will of the consciousness brain vs the primordial brute force of the subconscious. It is not a battle you win but rather a situation you attempt to understand.

He asked me to write this up as I have known him and his wife most of my life, I myself suffer from fairly extreme social anxiety and so I have some measure of the scale of the opponent he has to confront.

His wife knew the crown crates were coming, we had explained it in detail. So we were prepared when the proverbial storm broke. He has played eso casually as a storyteller, crafter, role player and dungeon fan since launch. He helped found two guilds, both of which are close to capacity. It's one of the few times his mind is totally calm. To use a term from anxiety it's a safe place. That is now over.

When the crates came out he simply couldn't help it, what followed was a stand up row with myself and the love of his life on one side, voices calm and reasonable and an addict fighting his own daemons on the other. He had already blown hundreds of pounds in crowns before we could reason him down. We had a talk and he came to a decision. He asked me to uninstall eso, change the passwords then change the email account to a new one, all with randomised passwords of which no record will be made. This I have done. He is sleeping upstairs now. We asked if we should look for a refund but he just gave a tired smile and shrugged. "Put it down to experience" he said.

He also asked if I would help him tomorrow to have a look for an equally good quality mmo without gambling, from what I hear that may be a challenge but I'm up for it.

Thank you ZOS, thank you so very much

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GaryA
@ZOS_KaiSchober
@ZOS_TristanK
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS@ZOS_GinaBruno

For uk people the following details may be of help
Uk gamcare.com
Tel 0808 8020 133

BOGATYR

1 like = 1 prayer

ArrerBoy

F2P_savior_of_ESO wrote: »

there is no real addictive in gambling - just your imagination and execuses

Oh there is. Dopamine and the thrill of winning etc.

But the whole point of these crown crates is to erode your will. Eventually if you keep seeing them, their prizes dangling just out of your reach, you'll shell out for a couple. And 'a couple' over however many players means huge sales.

Recremen

ArrerBoy wrote: »

F2P_savior_of_ESO wrote: »

there is no real addictive in gambling - just your imagination and execuses

Oh there is. Dopamine and the thrill of winning etc.

But the whole point of these crown crates is to erode your will. Eventually if you keep seeing them, their prizes dangling just out of your reach, you'll shell out for a couple. And 'a couple' over however many players means huge sales.

It's just a troll, report and move on. Everyone knows that gambling addiction is a real medical condition.

Alucardo

Is this for real? If so, I'm really sorry to hear that, and wish him the best of luck finding a game without the gambling. Sad truth is, most MMOs have some form of loot crates, and some worse than others. I had hopes ESO wouldn't go down this path, but look where we are now.
All the best to his future, and I sincerely hope he finds an end to his addiction.

yodased

While this is unfortunate for you and for him, you have to look at the status of the game and the world holistically.

The thing that I don't understand is if someone has a gambling addiction, this game in and of itself, all games really, should be off limits as they reward you using psuedo-randomness, aka gambling with your time.

Allowing someone with such an addiction any risk/reward situation is asking for trouble, or is the perceived value in losing money what triggers the impulse?

Self control, do none of us have it anymore?

Cazzy

Integral1900 wrote: »

Hello
A good friend had to leave the game he loves today.

He has struggled with an addictive personality all his life, spent a few years in an institution, gambling was one of the strongest pulls, in the past this need has sent him down some very dark paths. Addiction is not a matter of choice, it's a malfunction of the brains craving for risk vs reward, it's the will of the consciousness brain vs the primordial brute force of the subconscious. It is not a battle you win but rather a situation you attempt to understand.

He asked me to write this up as I have known him and his wife most of my life, I myself suffer from fairly extreme social anxiety and so I have some measure of the scale of the opponent he has to confront.

His wife knew the crown crates were coming, we had explained it in detail. So we were prepared when the proverbial storm broke. He has played eso casually as a storyteller, crafter, role player and dungeon fan since launch. He helped found two guilds, both of which are close to capacity. It's one of the few times his mind is totally calm. To use a term from anxiety it's a safe place. That is now over.

When the crates came out he simply couldn't help it, what followed was a stand up row with myself and the love of his life on one side, voices calm and reasonable and an addict fighting his own daemons on the other. He had already blown hundreds of pounds in crowns before we could reason him down. We had a talk and he came to a decision. He asked me to uninstall eso, change the passwords then change the email account to a new one, all with randomised passwords of which no record will be made. This I have done. He is sleeping upstairs now. We asked if we should look for a refund but he just gave a tired smile and shrugged. "Put it down to experience" he said.

He also asked if I would help him tomorrow to have a look for an equally good quality mmo without gambling, from what I hear that may be a challenge but I'm up for it.

Thank you ZOS, thank you so very much

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GaryA
@ZOS_KaiSchober
@ZOS_TristanK
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS@ZOS_GinaBruno

For uk people the following details may be of help
Uk gamcare.com
Tel 0808 8020 133

I'm sorry to hear about that, dude. Unfortunately I can relate. I'm having a battle in my mind whether I can play or not. I'm going to try moving to another platform (losing all progress and past purchases) so I start with nothing. If I still start to feel pressured then...well, I've lost something that made me happy. I'm on Meds for now

Unsent.Soul

Truly a sad thing. It's a real problem, some will just laugh it off. Those of us that know, it can be devastating. Awesome job on your part and great write up.

Good luck!

Alucardo

yodased wrote: »

Self control, do none of us have it anymore?

Addiction kind of makes self control extremely difficult..

Cazzy

Alucardo wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Self control, do none of us have it anymore?

Addiction kind of makes self control extremely difficult..

Yup!!!!

DurzoBlint13

I am glad they deleted the post about being weak. Whoever wrote that is just wrong and they have no clue what they are talking about. I am an addict as well- Ive been clean for 7 years now but it is still a fight to stay that way. It gets easier with time and support but never ever goes away completely. Gambling was not my weakness but I understand the situation.

Unfortunately they seem to be hoping that people will lose their willpower and dump their paychecks into the Crown Store

Sallington

Crap like these crates have no place in a video game. I don't know when it started exactly, but why the hell can't developers just focus purely on content like they used to?

I guess that idea dies with the B2P and F2P payment models. People started bitching and complaining about about a monthly subscription (for god knows what reason. probably couldn't get a hold of their parent's credit card), and now this is the aftermath of the slippery slope. Let everyone into the game for close to no cost, then monetize everything.

Mounts, costumes, personalities.... ALL things that could easily be incorporated into the Achievement system, but that doesn't make ZOS any money. Not with the game being B2P.

I miss the days of just paying a subscription, and the dev's job was to create engaging content that brought in new customers and kept people subscribed. Now it's "what can wave in front of people that will make them want to spend $20".

The_Duke

I spent hundreds on DCUO booster bundles to get a limited time Aura. I never got one but sold the other ones I had received and liquidated all my In game assets to buy one off the broker.

I was out of control. I felt fortune had to smile on me at some point since I knew people who got one easy or had even got 2. It didn't and I spent close to 300 big ones for nothing.

I will not be purchasing a crown crate ever. Ive felt the cruel grip of RNG on my bank account and will not be a slave to gambling.

Im grateful that the elk mount is available in the shop and hope that the white lion is as well. If it isnt I will never get it.

SolarCat02

Cazzy wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

Hello
A good friend had to leave the game he loves today.

He has struggled with an addictive personality all his life, spent a few years in an institution, gambling was one of the strongest pulls, in the past this need has sent him down some very dark paths. Addiction is not a matter of choice, it's a malfunction of the brains craving for risk vs reward, it's the will of the consciousness brain vs the primordial brute force of the subconscious. It is not a battle you win but rather a situation you attempt to understand.

He asked me to write this up as I have known him and his wife most of my life, I myself suffer from fairly extreme social anxiety and so I have some measure of the scale of the opponent he has to confront.

His wife knew the crown crates were coming, we had explained it in detail. So we were prepared when the proverbial storm broke. He has played eso casually as a storyteller, crafter, role player and dungeon fan since launch. He helped found two guilds, both of which are close to capacity. It's one of the few times his mind is totally calm. To use a term from anxiety it's a safe place. That is now over.

When the crates came out he simply couldn't help it, what followed was a stand up row with myself and the love of his life on one side, voices calm and reasonable and an addict fighting his own daemons on the other. He had already blown hundreds of pounds in crowns before we could reason him down. We had a talk and he came to a decision. He asked me to uninstall eso, change the passwords then change the email account to a new one, all with randomised passwords of which no record will be made. This I have done. He is sleeping upstairs now. We asked if we should look for a refund but he just gave a tired smile and shrugged. "Put it down to experience" he said.

He also asked if I would help him tomorrow to have a look for an equally good quality mmo without gambling, from what I hear that may be a challenge but I'm up for it.

Thank you ZOS, thank you so very much

For uk people the following details may be of help
Uk gamcare.com
Tel 0808 8020 133

I'm sorry to hear about that, dude. Unfortunately I can relate. I'm having a battle in my mind whether I can play or not. I'm going to try moving to another platform (losing all progress and past purchases) so I start with nothing. If I still start to feel pressured then...well, I've lost something that made me happy. I'm on Meds for now.

(((HUGS)))

I hope it works.
I love reading your posts, and I would miss them if you had to leave.

That said, do what you need to do!

I was really worried this would be the case, when the Crates came out.
I am sad at not having the option to purchase the mounts locked behind the Crates (not interested in any of the other stuff), but not as sad as I am that ESO is no longer a safe place for so many people.

yodased

Alucardo wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Self control, do none of us have it anymore?

Addiction kind of makes self control extremely difficult..

While I can sympathize with this, how does this person go through their lives walking past lotto tickets, scratch offs, carnivals, etc.

I mean, I get it, its an impulse you have to control, but the same way that alcoholics walk past bars and don't drink, gambling addicts must control themselves.

Letting someone be in a situation like this, with access to online funds that could be spent on a system known to be exploitative is reckless at best, if one is known to not have the ability to control ones self.

You don't let a pedo teach kindergarten or a recovered junkie work in a pharmacy, its just bad news.

Again, sympathy for your loss of a friend to play the game with, but they have bigger fish to fry I think.,

Edit:

You should block all access to credit cards from their access and let them open 2 a month (eso+) for the release if they need it, like methadone.

Runs

Something like this should be added in game




It would take out the crown crate section, and also remove crate and bundles from crown store. Out of sight, out of mind... For those who have low impulse control.

Cazzy

yodased wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Self control, do none of us have it anymore?

Addiction kind of makes self control extremely difficult..

While I can sympathize with this, how does this person go through their lives walking past lotto tickets, scratch offs, carnivals, etc.

I mean, I get it, its an impulse you have to control, but the same way that alcoholics walk past bars and don't drink, gambling addicts must control themselves.

Letting someone be in a situation like this, with access to online funds that could be spent on a system known to be exploitative is reckless at best, if one is known to not have the ability to control ones self.

You don't let a pedo teach kindergarten or a recovered junkie work in a pharmacy, its just bad news.

Again, sympathy for your loss of a friend to play the game with, but they have bigger fish to fry I think.,

Edit:

You should block all access to credit cards from their access and let them open 2 a month (eso+) for the release if they need it, like methadone.

Whenever we drive by a pub in a car I stare at it and try to look inside. I smell the air and scent of alcohol and feel relaxed, warm, homely. I haven't been inside a bar for 5 years. I can't surround myself with bad habits. ESO implemented this way, way too late if this was their intention. A lot of us have lost a good thing.

FoolishHuman

yodased wrote: »

Letting someone be in a situation like this, with access to online funds that could be spent on a system known to be exploitative is reckless at best, if one is known to not have the ability to control ones self.

Reckless is changing a rpg fantasy video game into a casino. When companies get rewarded for preying on the weak, we got a problem with our society.

Cazzy

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

Hello
A good friend had to leave the game he loves today.

He has struggled with an addictive personality all his life, spent a few years in an institution, gambling was one of the strongest pulls, in the past this need has sent him down some very dark paths. Addiction is not a matter of choice, it's a malfunction of the brains craving for risk vs reward, it's the will of the consciousness brain vs the primordial brute force of the subconscious. It is not a battle you win but rather a situation you attempt to understand.

He asked me to write this up as I have known him and his wife most of my life, I myself suffer from fairly extreme social anxiety and so I have some measure of the scale of the opponent he has to confront.

His wife knew the crown crates were coming, we had explained it in detail. So we were prepared when the proverbial storm broke. He has played eso casually as a storyteller, crafter, role player and dungeon fan since launch. He helped found two guilds, both of which are close to capacity. It's one of the few times his mind is totally calm. To use a term from anxiety it's a safe place. That is now over.

When the crates came out he simply couldn't help it, what followed was a stand up row with myself and the love of his life on one side, voices calm and reasonable and an addict fighting his own daemons on the other. He had already blown hundreds of pounds in crowns before we could reason him down. We had a talk and he came to a decision. He asked me to uninstall eso, change the passwords then change the email account to a new one, all with randomised passwords of which no record will be made. This I have done. He is sleeping upstairs now. We asked if we should look for a refund but he just gave a tired smile and shrugged. "Put it down to experience" he said.

He also asked if I would help him tomorrow to have a look for an equally good quality mmo without gambling, from what I hear that may be a challenge but I'm up for it.

Thank you ZOS, thank you so very much

For uk people the following details may be of help
Uk gamcare.com
Tel 0808 8020 133

I'm sorry to hear about that, dude. Unfortunately I can relate. I'm having a battle in my mind whether I can play or not. I'm going to try moving to another platform (losing all progress and past purchases) so I start with nothing. If I still start to feel pressured then...well, I've lost something that made me happy. I'm on Meds for now.

(((HUGS)))

I hope it works.
I love reading your posts, and I would miss them if you had to leave.

That said, do what you need to do!

I was really worried this would be the case, when the Crates came out.
I am sad at not having the option to purchase the mounts locked behind the Crates (not interested in any of the other stuff), but not as sad as I am that ESO is no longer a safe place for so many people.

Aww thank you I've had problems with ESO before and wanted to quit but it always drew me back in. This time is very different though. In all honesty, I don't know what I'm gonna do yet. I don't want to leave a lot of friends behind either xx

ZOS_GregoryV

We have decided to close this thread due to the fact that it seems to not be staying civil and/or constructive.