Group Dungeons - Why do people get upset when they die?

vamp_emily

This question has crossed my mind a few times.

Last night we were doing a trial and at the final boss we died 3 times. I noticed the change in everyone's mood. In the beginning everyone was happy and ready to do it, and then towards the end I could see players attitudes changed. I see this attitude change a lot in dungeons, trials, and PvP.

I don't mind dying. My second fight in TF was against 4 AD that were defending a resource they took at Ales. I went there to take it back. I died 20 times before I asked for help ( yes, I seen 20 deaths on my kill counter ). Someone from AD whispered me and said "Emily, you are my Hero!". I replied, "Why because I gave you so much AP?". They laughed and said , "No, I like your play style, you are like Raar!".

Maybe I am different than most players, I can die 20 times and get back up and do it again. If I die a few times in a dungeon or trial it doesn't bother me, if someone else dies it doesn't bother me either. But some people just can't handle dying it seems like.

WalksonGraves

Because some people value their time?

IrishGirlGamer

Every time I see a person acting like that in a dungeon, I think they haven't played enough Dark Souls.

Silver_Strider

Death is a natural part of life.
Some people cannot accept death because they are afraid and lash out in anger over it.
It's all natural

The_Sadist

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Death is a natural part of life.
Some people cannot accept death because they are afraid and lash out in anger over it.
It's all natural

Entirely irrelevant.

As @WalksonGraves said, people value their time. If an individual has completed a dungeon or a raid hundreds of times but the same few people are dragging the team down, I think frustration is an appropriate response. These days dungeons are daily tasks you want to smash out quickly, spending an hour doing something that can take 15 minutes is counterproductive.

RAGUNAnoOne

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Death is a natural part of life.
Some people cannot accept death because they are afraid and lash out in anger over it.
It's all natural

@Silver_Strider I love this quote the one inevitible fact of life is that to live is to one day die but when that thought comes to mind it causes a variety of negative emotions.

vamp_emily

WalksonGraves wrote: »

As @WalksonGraves said, people value their time. If an individual has completed a dungeon or a raid hundreds of times but the same few people are dragging the team down, I think frustration is an appropriate response. These days dungeons are daily tasks you want to smash out quickly, spending an hour doing something that can take 15 minutes is counterproductive.

I understand "some people" are like that, but in most situations that is not the case, players can be happy waiting for someone for 10 or 20 minutes to get started, but once someone dies it is like totally different attitude.

What do people not expect to die in a group dungeon?

Waffennacht

vamp_emily wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

As @WalksonGraves said, people value their time. If an individual has completed a dungeon or a raid hundreds of times but the same few people are dragging the team down, I think frustration is an appropriate response. These days dungeons are daily tasks you want to smash out quickly, spending an hour doing something that can take 15 minutes is counterproductive.

I understand "some people" are like that, but in most situations that is not the case, players can be happy waiting for someone for 10 or 20 minutes to get started, but once someone dies it is like totally different attitude.

What do people not expect to die in a group dungeon?

No.. if I group it's because i want it done fast, if I didn't want it done fast i would solo it

WalksonGraves

Well when you aren't bad at the game you usually don't die very often. Everyone will die one day, some with the knowledge they wasted what time they had frustrated because they were in your group.

Prof_Bawbag

The_Sadist wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Death is a natural part of life.
Some people cannot accept death because they are afraid and lash out in anger over it.
It's all natural

Entirely irrelevant.

As @WalksonGraves said, people value their time. If an individual has completed a dungeon or a raid hundreds of times but the same few people are dragging the team down, I think frustration is an appropriate response. These days dungeons are daily tasks you want to smash out quickly, spending an hour doing something that can take 15 minutes is counterproductive.

Sounds like those people find the entire thing a chore in the first place. Most people have real life daily chores "that they want to smash out quickly" but they do them because they're a necessity. If I felt the same sinking feeling doing certain things in a game, that i get from having to come home from work and do the dishes etc, I'd maybe question whether or not playing that game was counterproductive.

The_Sadist

vamp_emily wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

As @WalksonGraves said, people value their time. If an individual has completed a dungeon or a raid hundreds of times but the same few people are dragging the team down, I think frustration is an appropriate response. These days dungeons are daily tasks you want to smash out quickly, spending an hour doing something that can take 15 minutes is counterproductive.

I understand "some people" are like that, but in most situations that is not the case, players can be happy waiting for someone for 10 or 20 minutes to get started, but once someone dies it is like totally different attitude.

What do people not expect to die in a group dungeon?

Getting a group of people organised for trials does often take 10 or so minutes, but wiping multiple times on a boss you have killed with little trouble prior can get frustrating. A good group of experienced players won't die in a group dungeon, let alone wipe, so if someone advertises a speedy run and you start dying, attitudes can shift.

The hardcore and 'elite' players are often task orientated and wiping multiple times is a waste of time. Back when I was extremely active I dropped groups frequently if it was evident that a dungeon was going to take an excessive amount of time.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Death is a natural part of life.
Some people cannot accept death because they are afraid and lash out in anger over it.
It's all natural

Entirely irrelevant.

As @WalksonGraves said, people value their time. If an individual has completed a dungeon or a raid hundreds of times but the same few people are dragging the team down, I think frustration is an appropriate response. These days dungeons are daily tasks you want to smash out quickly, spending an hour doing something that can take 15 minutes is counterproductive.

Sounds like those people find the entire thing a chore in the first place. Most people have real life daily chores "that they want to smash out quickly" but they do them because they're a necessity. If I felt the same sinking feeling doing certain things in a game, that i get from having to come home from work and do the dishes etc, I'd maybe question whether or not playing that game was counterproductive.

All MMOs have some sort of grindy, repetitive task that you do but don't necessarily enjoy in order to benefit your characters and account. Not all aspects of the game are enjoyable to everyone, I hate PvP but will need to PvP in order to unlock best in slot stamina spells. Should I quit the game because of that? No, but it's a boring process for me. The novelty of dungeons and whatnot wore off after the first 100 times, spending an hour doing a daily task that can take 15 minutes isn't ideal.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I think it is because in group content the reaction is to blame others for what happened.

So when in a group setting after a wipe or two people start getting mad at each other. The tank missed a taunt. The healer ignored me. The dps stood in red. Just people natural reaction.

It is the same reason sometimes in pvp when you beat someone(or so i hear,i have no idea what this is actually like to beat someone in pvp ), they will whisper you and call you names, or hacker. The natural reaction is to look outside yourself for things to blame, other then just admitting you werent good enough and trying to do better.

Mojmir

I get mad if I die in pve because it's usually not my fault. 9/10 times its skill bar lockup or lag.
In pvp it's always my fault I die.

Silver_Strider

The_Sadist wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Death is a natural part of life.
Some people cannot accept death because they are afraid and lash out in anger over it.
It's all natural

Entirely irrelevant.

As @WalksonGraves said, people value their time. If an individual has completed a dungeon or a raid hundreds of times but the same few people are dragging the team down, I think frustration is an appropriate response. These days dungeons are daily tasks you want to smash out quickly, spending an hour doing something that can take 15 minutes is counterproductive.

It appears my satire was lost to you.

Prof_Bawbag

Mojmir wrote: »

I get mad if I die in pve because it's usually not my fault. 9/10 times its skill bar lockup or lag.
In pvp it's always my fault I die.

I dunno about PvP. The lag has been so bad at times my character has probably died on many occasions 30 seconds or so before it has registered on my screen. I've been in situations when the screen has virtually ground to a halt and all i can do is attempt a bar swap, retreat and spam poison injection from my bow and hope for the best.

The_Sadist

Silver_Strider wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Death is a natural part of life.
Some people cannot accept death because they are afraid and lash out in anger over it.
It's all natural

Entirely irrelevant.

As @WalksonGraves said, people value their time. If an individual has completed a dungeon or a raid hundreds of times but the same few people are dragging the team down, I think frustration is an appropriate response. These days dungeons are daily tasks you want to smash out quickly, spending an hour doing something that can take 15 minutes is counterproductive.

It appears my satire was lost to you.

Entirely lost .

acw37162

Pvp I expect to die.

PVE, I don't like dying/wiping when you should not (occasionally, accidentally no problem, repeatedly problem).

Unfortunately or fortunately I am to point in the game where I run content for a reason keys, drops, or to helps friend or guildmate.

DragonBound

Lol I am sorry but its your own fault for playing an mmorpg and pugging, if you do not like dying that much and you really consider it a waste of your time maybe you should stop playing these games, I cannot believe people really think this is even a consequence in this mmorpg, if anything mmorpgs need to get more creative about the consequences of dying, the consequences where way worse in older mmorpgs.

Soundwave

Healer- It's not about being counter productive or dying. It's more like,"Seriously stop standing in the red ***!"

Tank- Doesn't bother me much I get instance que, it's more like, "Seriously attack what I'm attacking."

DPS- "Damn it I waited for like *** forever for this que. Healer u suck, all you have to do is to healer. Tank what r u doing, you need to do this and that. Let's just do this, we can do this."

bottleofsyrup

I can understand. Trials are a bit of a time investment, even if not a big one for normal. After one wipe you're kind of like, "Okay, let's try this again." After a second and third, you sort of start to get this fear that you may not complete the content that you had already worked toward, not to mention having to do the same bit over and over again after each wipe. It can be especially frustrated for more experienced players who normally breeze through.

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Lol I am sorry but its your own fault for playing an mmorpg and pugging, if you do not like dying that much and you really consider it a waste of your time maybe you should stop playing these games, I cannot believe people really think this is even a consequence in this mmorpg, if anything mmorpgs need to get more creative about the consequences of dying, the consequences where way worse in older mmorpgs.

She never said it was a PUG. It was likely with her guild.

DragonBound

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

I can understand. Trials are a bit of a time investment, even if not a big one for normal. After one wipe you're kind of like, "Okay, let's try this again." After a second and third, you sort of start to get this fear that you may not complete the content that you had already worked toward, not to mention having to do the same bit over and over again after each wipe. It can be especially frustrated for more experienced players who normally breeze through.

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Lol I am sorry but its your own fault for playing an mmorpg and pugging, if you do not like dying that much and you really consider it a waste of your time maybe you should stop playing these games, I cannot believe people really think this is even a consequence in this mmorpg, if anything mmorpgs need to get more creative about the consequences of dying, the consequences where way worse in older mmorpgs.

She never said it was a PUG. It was likely with her guild.

Most people are frustrated with pugs and dying though if your playing with people you know then there is no reason to by dying allot unless your guild is not working together then it is up to you to find a guild that does.

Ravena

Playing MMOs and valuing one's time are mutually exclusive things

Doctordarkspawn

DPS loss, which is a time loss. Contrary to popular belief, those two are not mutually exclusive.

SHADOW2KK

Never understood why people PUG, I normally roll with people I know and work well with.

It being the essence of teamwork

GoBlue275

As someone who was there with Emily at the time, I will try and explain what I was thinking. As a DPS I was not mad because I died. I was however getting frustrated at the lack of execution. Knowing it was a training run when I joined I fully expected a little bit of troubles. But on a normal trial there shouldn't be all that many.

However what got me frustrated was the fight in question was a stack and burn fight. The tank was kiting all over the place and DPS were getting one shot. People were spamming chat for the DPS that were still alive to revive (Standard Protocol) and to remain behind the boss. As a DPS, I would run out of the heals to revive someone as directed and turn into just another player waiting for a revive.

After the fight the only correction in everyone's chat was to tell the DPS to revive faster and do better. But it wasn't the DPS that was the problem in my eyes. We did this 3 times and ended up winning on the 4th through sheer willpower and a little bit of luck.

Even though its a training run and a normal I think people still have an expectation that people will have a certain level of skills and gear when playing the role of your choice and joining a trial.

Emily, Please don't take this personally as I will still run with you guys if you will have me. But you asked why people got upset. I am not sure if anyone was angry but just a little frustrated and demoralized. Plus having 6 people out of 12 giving directions was frustrating in itself.

GoBlue275

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Never understood why people PUG, I normally roll with people I know and work well with.

It being the essence of teamwork

This was not a PUG.

Yinmaigao

@vamp_emily
Don't let it get to you too much. You are doing good things and not every run is going to be a win.
You can never tell what someone's personal threshold will be for getting upset, but you advertised as a training run. People forget that when new content comes out, folks can wipe on encounters 10+ times learning them (re: training run). While you can't control other's emotions, try to be a solid leader and give clear, concise directing to avoid people trying to take over from you, and induce further confusion and frustration.
You have a noble goal and are working hard to get there.
Some days will be better than others, so don't give up!

GoBlue275

Yinmaigao wrote: »

@vamp_emily
Don't let it get to you too much. You are doing good things and not every run is going to be a win.
You can never tell what someone's personal threshold will be for getting upset, but you advertised as a training run. People forget that when new content comes out, folks can wipe on encounters 10+ times learning them (re: training run). While you can't control other's emotions, try to be a solid leader and give clear, concise directing to avoid people trying to take over from you, and induce further confusion and frustration.
You have a noble goal and are working hard to get there.
Some days will be better than others, so don't give up!

+1

SolarCat02

I think it really depends on the situation.

Dying because the PUG "tank" is a tauntless coward dps who keeps pulling the melee boss out of AoEs and ultimates whenever he gets aggro is frustrating.

Dying because your otherwise reliable tank didn't spin the bone colossus around fast enough that you got hit by the opening one shot mechanic is just one of those things that happen sometimes. No big deal. (Although frustrating on a no death achievement attempt, of course!)

Wiping repeatedly on a boss as you and your friends stubbornly try to figure out the mechanics yourselves before looking it up online can be fun, depending on your friends.

Wiping repeatedly because someone refuses to follow important mechanics clearly explained prior to the fight is frustrating.

Wiping repeatedly without getting closer to killing the boss than prior attempts, or not getting close at all before the wipe, and making the same mistakes each time, is frustrating - and generally means the group as is can't finish.

Waffennacht

When I join a group, I fully expect crown to tell me exactly what they want done. And I do mean exactly, you're my leader, you're my commander, I will execute the orders but I definitely need to know if I'm doing something wrong and how to correct it.

Having more than 1/2 people giving orders makes thus impossible.

Tannus15

Waffennacht wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

As @WalksonGraves said, people value their time. If an individual has completed a dungeon or a raid hundreds of times but the same few people are dragging the team down, I think frustration is an appropriate response. These days dungeons are daily tasks you want to smash out quickly, spending an hour doing something that can take 15 minutes is counterproductive.

I understand "some people" are like that, but in most situations that is not the case, players can be happy waiting for someone for 10 or 20 minutes to get started, but once someone dies it is like totally different attitude.

What do people not expect to die in a group dungeon?

No.. if I group it's because i want it done fast, if I didn't want it done fast i would solo it

This is kind of why I get annoyed. I KNOW if I was doing the dungeon solo it would be slow, but I wouldn't die. So you would think that with 3 other players I'd be less likely to die, but for some reason that's not the case.