Removal of Sneak in Cyrodiil

Lava_Croft

Just like universal stealth hurts your experience where AoE blobs don't, AoE blobs hurt other people's experience where universal stealth doesn't.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

Derra

Remove Stealth completly except for Cloak (Nightblade Skill) (only in Cyrodiil)

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Just like universal stealth hurts your experience where AoE blobs don't, AoE blobs hurt other people's experience where universal stealth doesn't.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

And just because two things are bad we should not be able to argue about either of those seperately?

I just can´t wrap my head around that train of thought... as that logic produces a standstill on every topic discussed. You´re linking largely unrelated issues just because...

Reversing that logic we should not be discussing eye of the storm just because of sneak - whaaat? In what world does that make any sense?

Ernest145

I was against this at first till I really thought about it. Anytime I try to solo or play with a small group there are always tons of players who hide in stealth and wait for me or my group to be engaged, then they pop out of stealth so they zerg us. On NA TF Maubee's AD raid is notorious for this, literally stealths around with a raid to zerg down small scalers. I don't think removing it entirely would be the best idea but there definitely should be an adjustment.

This will benefit smaller groups in open fields but when it comes to keep defenses and objective play it will hurt them. How will small numbers stealth into the keep while there is a huge zerg attacking and is all around? or how will a solo player go put up sneak out to put up a forward camp? I guess you can use an invis pot but idk.

Good luck with getting zos to listen I really hope they adjust this, but there isn't one clearly thought out solution in this thread. You can't just outright remove stealth, that would just do more harm than good to most pvpers.

Haydenmango

Give Dragonknights Major Evasion on Cinder Storm and remove Stealth completly except for Cloak (Nightblade Skill) (only in Cyrodiil)

give me major evasion with cinder storm pls

...sneaking is fine.

God_flakes

Keep it as it is

Ernest145 wrote: »

I was against this at first till I really thought about it. Anytime I try to solo or play with a small group there are always tons of players who hide in stealth and wait for me or my group to be engaged, then they pop out of stealth so they zerg us. On NA TF Maubee's AD raid is notorious for this, literally stealths around with a raid to zerg down small scalers. I don't think removing it entirely would be the best idea but there definitely should be an adjustment.

This will benefit smaller groups in open fields but when it comes to keep defenses and objective play it will hurt them. How will small numbers stealth into the keep while there is a huge zerg attacking and is all around? or how will a solo player go put up sneak out to put up a forward camp? I guess you can use an invis pot but idk.

Good luck with getting zos to listen I really hope they adjust this, but there isn't one clearly thought out solution in this thread. You can't just outright remove stealth, that would just do more harm than good to most pvpers.

This thread is becoming like Animal Farm. "It hurts me and outrages me...so get rid of it!"

Ridiculous. Why anyone would even entertain the notion of eliminating or gimping sneak/stealth/crouch is absurd.

Lava_Croft

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Just like universal stealth hurts your experience where AoE blobs don't, AoE blobs hurt other people's experience where universal stealth doesn't.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

And just because two things are bad we should not be able to argue about either of those seperately?

I just can´t wrap my head around that train of thought... as that logic produces a standstill on every topic discussed. You´re linking largely unrelated issues just because...

Reversing that logic we should not be discussing eye of the storm just because of sneak - whaaat? In what world does that make any sense?

The train of thought is that in Cyrodiil there will always be things you don't really like. Universal stealth is among the least annoying things in a world of bad performance, ridiculous damage, tanking, healing and an overpowered Ultimate or three.

I'm not a fan of all the scrubs jumping you from stealth just as I'm not a fan of AoE blobs. They are a part of Cyrodiil however and removing either of it would be a loss to the game as a whole.

Derra

Remove Stealth completly except for Cloak (Nightblade Skill) (only in Cyrodiil)

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Just like universal stealth hurts your experience where AoE blobs don't, AoE blobs hurt other people's experience where universal stealth doesn't.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

And just because two things are bad we should not be able to argue about either of those seperately?

I just can´t wrap my head around that train of thought... as that logic produces a standstill on every topic discussed. You´re linking largely unrelated issues just because...

Reversing that logic we should not be discussing eye of the storm just because of sneak - whaaat? In what world does that make any sense?

The train of thought is that in Cyrodiil there will always be things you don't really like. Universal stealth is among the least annoying things in a world of bad performance, ridiculous damage, tanking, healing and an overpowered Ultimate or three.

I'm not a fan of all the scrubs jumping you from stealth just as I'm not a fan of AoE blobs. They are a part of Cyrodiil however and removing either of it would be a loss to the game as a whole.

In your personal opinion it´s the least annoying.
In my opinion it´s competing for #1 spot with lag.

Your argument is still: a) b) c) d) e) are all flawed and imo d) is the least flawed of them so in the end nothing should change.

More strawman arguments not having anything to do with the topic at hand don´t change the fact that they have nothing to do with this topic.
The only thing you´re saying is: Everything has flaws so we better don´t discuss anything of it.

I don´t even want to fully remove stealth (it´s just the only option available in this topic). I want it reworked. I want drawbacks and especially i´d like to see tanks and casters be stripped from the ability to be permanently invisible...

Delimber

Keep it as it is

I think folks have made the argument for those in heavy armour to not be able to sneak, but anyone in leather or cloth shouldn't have any issues sneaking.

But then a ton of variables start to happen.

If I have one piece heavy and 5 medium and 1 light do I get to sneak? etc.

Thus I can't see it ever going that route as that would be a pain in the *** to set up I'd think.

Its all or nothing.

KisoValley

Remove Stealth completly (only in Cyrodiil)

A thread about the removal of sneak and a player who zerg surfs (and funnily enough is a block tank lol) brings destro ulti into the thread like they do on every other thread they post on.

Smh.

Master_Kas

Keep it as it is

KisoValley wrote: »

A thread about the removal of sneak and a player who zerg surfs (and funnily enough is a block tank lol) brings destro ulti into the thread like they do on every other thread they post on.

Smh.

Well if he's not in a group, he is soloing

kuro-dono

lol. its so funny to read this while thinking> my raid actively does stealth sieging, which hurts ppl, because all they wanna do is farm ap, so if they need to spend 1min, to search my raid without ap income, they feel tears falling down.

Etaniel

Remove Stealth completly except for Cloak (Nightblade Skill) (only in Cyrodiil)

glavius wrote: »

Sneak is what makes solo play possible. Remove it and everyone is forced to run in groups

It's exact opposite. Sneak is what makes solo play impossible. People will run in groups because they never know how many people are waiting for them in stealth. If we could see everyone from a distance, solo players would be able to pick their fights all the time, making it much more enjoyable for them.

God_flakes

Keep it as it is

Etaniel wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Sneak is what makes solo play possible. Remove it and everyone is forced to run in groups

It's exact opposite. Sneak is what makes solo play impossible. People will run in groups because they never know how many people are waiting for them in stealth. If we could see everyone from a distance, solo players would be able to pick their fights all the time, making it much more enjoyable for them.

Sneak makes solo play impossible? Oh come on!! Why do we need major changes to integral game mechanics to tailor to one playstyle over another in a game where there is NO penalty when you die? Smh <strongly>. So what if you die solo? So what if you die in a large group? Rez up and get back out there. People need to stop demanding changes because they die. This is getting ridiculous.

Etaniel

Remove Stealth completly except for Cloak (Nightblade Skill) (only in Cyrodiil)

God_flakes wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Sneak is what makes solo play possible. Remove it and everyone is forced to run in groups

It's exact opposite. Sneak is what makes solo play impossible. People will run in groups because they never know how many people are waiting for them in stealth. If we could see everyone from a distance, solo players would be able to pick their fights all the time, making it much more enjoyable for them.

Sneak makes solo play impossible? Oh come on!! Why do we need major changes to integral game mechanics to tailor to one playstyle over another in a game where there is NO penalty when you die? Smh <strongly>. So what if you die solo? So what if you die in a large group? Rez up and get back out there. People need to stop demanding changes because they die. This is getting ridiculous.

Impossible was an overstatement.
Doesn't change the fact his argument is wrong.

RinaldoGandolphi

Im against removing a style of play completely. I think maybe increasing players stealth detection a few meters would be fair.

The issue with stealth everyone complains about are its counters are terrible. Radiant Magelightis garbage, it's a toggle, that does no damage, don't work half the time and is only really good for stealth tankers to toggle for Empowerment before they arrow pew pew you. How ironic right? The games main anti-stealth tool is the prime component for Stam gankers.

Flare is a joke with horrible targeting and easy to avoid

AOE while works is a poor choice of skill unless your attacking multiple people the math cost doesn't work out for you.

Crouch needs a slight adjustment, but so does Nightblade Cloak. Cloak is broken in its current form. It's DOT suppression is good, but it shouldn't be broken by skills like Toppling Charge or Dizxy swing.

Stealth zergs are the new thing though, everyone gets jumped. Y 6-8 people hiding in stealth every night, it's the new black

Lava_Croft

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Stealth zergs are the new thing though, everyone gets jumped. Y 6-8 people hiding in stealth every night, it's the new black

I'll leave this here. Greetings from France.

Ghostbane

Give Dragonknights Major Evasion on Cinder Storm and remove Stealth completly except for Cloak (Nightblade Skill) (only in Cyrodiil)

Sheet, I'll take that.

God_flakes

Keep it as it is

Lava_Croft wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Stealth zergs are the new thing though, everyone gets jumped. Y 6-8 people hiding in stealth every night, it's the new black

I'll leave this here. Greetings from France.

Is that the infamous Howard Dean scream?

dsalter

Keep it as it is

would like to see keep guards reduce enemies stealth strength when within ballista range so you can't hide in plain sight right outside an enemy keep

LegendaryChef

Not really a big fan of sneak in general tbh but I think that is the least of the worries pvp players should have at the moment.

WTB 1.5/6 servers plz zos

ScooberSteve

Keep it as it is

You just rolled yourself good job!

Knootewoot

Remove Stealth completly except for Cloak (Nightblade Skill) (only in Cyrodiil)

Sneaking should not make you invisible, but just make your name tag/alliance indicator disappear or something. Entire armies (zergs) should not be able to hide in plain sight with shiny armors)

Hiding should be done by using rocks and tree's.

cloak of course should just work because that is not sneaking.

Of course, this will never happen.

Still_Mind

Keep it as it is

As a mainly solo player (mage DK), sneak acts as my main defense against zergs and ganksquads, and allows me to even the odds a bit against superior numbers when I'm on the offensive.

Unless "physical" line of sight/ducking behind something hiding is no longer crippled by things like nameplates and faction icons, I would be very upset if I weren't able to use sneak in pvp.