Yes, another vMA thread

William_21

Sprint glitch can be fixed by pressing your sprint button again.
vMA itself is not bad but the RNG can be cruel.

AlexTech0x

DPShiro wrote: »

20% skill? Really?

Is that why some of us do consistent flawless runs, without using seals/power ups and some have problem even clearing it at all?

Wow I must have some really insane luck! I wish that applied to the actual drops though.

And if you don't want comments, why on Nirn did you create a topic on a discussion forum?

"once you get "used" to it you realize it is %20 skill %80 rng" read everyting not only what you want.
I remember once at poison stage plants spawned INSIDE the blue bubble 5 times in a row, lol.

Mojmir

Vma is a lot about memory and repetition.

Meld777

DPShiro wrote: »

20% skill? Really?

Is that why some of us do consistent flawless runs, without using seals/power ups and some have problem even clearing it at all?

You're definitely right here. However, when I run it, the reason I'm constantly doing flawless runs is because I'm outdpsing most mechanics and the "RNG sources" die before RNG can happen.

Now imagine we cut the enemies' attack cooldowns in half, multiply their HP by 10 or even 20, so that we actually have to face all mechanics that some of us had to face when vMA just came out. It would definitely increase the chance of RNG screwing with you.

How many of you know the mechanics of the arena 8 boss? Probably none. You just kill the 3 stones and burst her down. If you're a newbie with low dps, you take the power sigil and do the same. If she had 20 times more HP, you'd have to face her adds (Atros, Kryngalds, Healers) while dealing with some pretty nasty RNG. Did you know she has a "fire wave" attack like the Titan in arena 9 (if you don't burst him down fast enough)? Did you know she likes to combine it with a pull, turning this into a 1-shot mechanic?

Fact is, we outdps all those mechanics that together can turn into some nasty RNG. If that wasn't the case, the chance to die from pure RNG would be higher because there's definitely potential for it.

robvs

It's sad that this dungeon is actually one of the more fun and challanging places in the game, but the loot is simply not rewarding. I wouldn't mind running this dungeon 50 times if I am then sure to get the weapon I want in the trait I want, but now it's just too frustrating. Sure I could run it once and get the sharpened inferno staff I'm after However, it could also take me 5000 runs to get it. It just doesn't make sense to me.

There are a lot of suggestions on this forum for making VMA more rewarding and less frustrating and I wonder why I've never seen a ZOS employee comment on them. It's quite disappointing.

DeadlyRecluse

I think everyone agrees the RNG loot system is garbage, particularly when it makes you run a solo instance 100s of times in an MMO.

Other than that, I think vMA is one of the best things ZOS has ever done. Yeah, it's just memorization now, but learning it back when the DLC dropped? It was super fun, hanging out in TS, swapping tips, feeling accomplished when you finally got it.


But it's the kind of content that you should really only be required to run 10 times or so. At that point, you've got it down, it's a milk run, it's not social, it's not difficult. Again, I'm pretty sure EVERYONE pretty much agrees the loot system RNG in ESO is frustrating, and furthermore it's particularly stupid in this instance.

Riga_Mortis

Would the game be better if you just logged in and choose a weapon with the perfect trait then logged out OP??

AlexTech0x

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Would the game be better if you just logged in and choose a weapon with the perfect trait then logged out OP??

Your answer is SO basic, the fact that you log into a MMO and have to run a SOLO instance meaby 500 times to get something also makes it better?

Armitas

The essential cause of my hate for VMA is the RNG, not only is it proven to be weighted against you it is quite possible to do it 2000 times and never get the weapon you want. Some have done it 1000x and nothing. They have turned what should have been positive content and destroyed it with their desire to create synthetic reasons for people to play longer. This is a western market, the design doesn't work, people hate this crap and entire guilds have reported leaving over it. Many more that are already on edge and at the peak of frustration and disappointment may leave as well when they learn that the dice is weighted against them. They have made VMA into an RNG purgatory standing between you and reaching the edge of end game. Except in this purgatory you don't get out by being good, you get out because a number releases you.

Fix the RNG and you fix the essential cause of VMA hate.

AlexTech0x

That is exactly what i mean with all this. I REALLY enjoyed the game in all of its aspects until the moment i started to do vMA. The frustration makes me log off literally after every vMA run usually when i log in, and it happens.
Now i know it is only 1 place out of everything it offers, but it results that from that place which is a SOLO instance in a MMO the best weapons can be found. Working towards success it's hard work already, i don't think that applies for 500 runs for a weapon.
I wouldn't mind to run a trial million times for something, because i am with friends, we chat and whatever else.... i mean come on, i would play Skyrim if i wanted to do solo content.
ZOS needs to either focus on what's really good or people want, because this way of keeping people playing does the opposite.

Armitas

AlexTech0x wrote: »

I wouldn't mind to run a trial million times for something, because i am with friends, we chat and whatever else.... i mean come on, i would play Skyrim if i wanted to do solo content.
ZOS needs to either focus on what's really good or people want, because this way of keeping people playing does the opposite.

Yeah it's a completely ignorant combination. You can put a grind on something that is fun like a dungeon with your friends, or even a solo dungeon that is easy enough that you can put yourself on autopilot like a long car trip. That system works, look at diablo, that is all diablo is but the system works because what you do is fun, and you feel like a boss doing it. You don't feel like that in VMA, you die to lag, animation canceling NPCS and RNG and at the end you get nothing. It is a dungeon that causes frustration and anger no matter how good you are at it and they attached a perma grind to it. It would take some imagination to develop a situation that is worse than that to add to your game.

danno8

SadieJoan wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

I would say it is less about 'skill' as I do not believe that to be a term that can be associated with a video game, I would say it is much more to do with practise.

I would say anything that requires you to practice is building "skill" in that particular activity. A professional athlete becomes skillful in their sport because they practiced a lot. I wouldn't exclude video games from that same premise.

I think people who completed vMSA have become skilled at running that content.

Lukums1 wrote: »

People have got to bloody start listening and understanding that Maelstrom isn't hard. Not even a little bit.

If vMSA isn't hard, then what would you call overland content? Even if vMSA is about memorizing a whole bunch of stuff, well memorizing a whole bunch of stuff is actually somewhat hard. It just gets easier the more you do it, to the point where you wonder how you had any troubles in the first place.

I disagree. I have completed vma several times, and do not believe it is because I am skilled, but because I have practised so much that I learned the mechanics, which I believe anyone is capable of doing. Perhaps to some, they feel it is so, but for me, personally, I see no skill in playing games, as skill is something personal to a person that makes them stand out, like an artist who can create beautiful work, or a surgeon who is able to save somebodies life, not something that anyone can do if they learn to press buttons fast enough at certain times. This is my personal opinion of course, everybody is entitled to their own, but I will never be able to link skill to games myself

I think you are referring to "Natural Talent" which to me is distinct from "skill"

"Skill" can be learned by anyone, but when we refer to someone as a "natural" at something it is because they have an innate edge over others for a particular activity. I don't know why you would believe that people can't have a natural talent for video games but I disagree.

In your examples I would think that both the artist and the surgeon can have a natural talent for what they do, but I believe they need to practice to get really skillful (and in the case of the surgeon they better have many years of practice and study, lol.)

"Skill:
-The ability to do something well; expertise
-A particular ability"

Anyway, blah, blah, blah, semantics aside, I think you don't see video games as "important" and you link relevance with skill.

Danksta

HatchetHaro wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Hey then just don't run it. Seriously if you cannot beat the place or if it's not fun then do not run it. Other gear exists.

Is that "other gear" best-in-slot?
No.

Some of it is actually....

Malmai

Did 52 runs this week and im getting double drops on charged have 40 restos already... Zenimax i agree with player-base this RNG is out of the question you have to provide us decent loot specially if you did like over 100 runs with flawless conqueror and weekly leader boards... Im not gonna live there any pray i dont get resto charged and shields at the end. Im not doing that at least introduce pledge so when you start you pledge yourself for a desired weapon and u can leave crap traits in so at least we have like 10% chance to get what we want... Jesus Christ.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_TristanK

Izaki

DPShiro wrote: »

20% skill? Really?

Is that why some of us do consistent flawless runs, without using seals/power ups and some have problem even clearing it at all?

Wow I must have some really insane luck! I wish that applied to the actual drops though.

And if you don't want comments, why on Nirn did you create a topic on a discussion forum?

Pretty much this.

AlexTech0x

They really need to understand that we are not players who enjoy running the same 90000 times and don't mind if they don't get what they want.
Some of us have jobs and stuff, they have to consider everyone in this matter -_-

[Edit to remove hate-speech]

Meld777

After ~430 runs of vMA and no Sharpened Inferno and farming the 2x event hard, I gave up.

Then today I was like, "Hey, now that it's back to 1x drop and the chances are back to 0% from 2x0%, maybe I'll get lucky in this one run!" Just imagine, after all this disappointment, months of farming for zero reward, 500+ hours spent in a solo arena in an MMO, you open the chest and actually see something useful in there... like a Sharpened Maul, or even a Sharpened Inferno. After all these hours spent - to finally say it wasn't for nothing... that feeling would be so awesome...

...
...
...

it was a Charged Sword and an Infused Shield... *** my life.

P.S.: Got sent to this thread by moderator.

th3watch3r

VMA is honestly some of the worst content ever put in a game in my opinion. The challenge was cool the first go at completing it.

After that it just becomes a mindless grind with 0.1% chance of you getting exactly what you want.

Fact: The RNG in VMA needs to be fixed.

Armitas

Meld777 wrote: »

After ~430 runs of vMA and no Sharpened Inferno and farming the 2x event hard, I gave up.

Then today I was like, "Hey, now that it's back to 1x drop and the chances are back to 0% from 2x0%, maybe I'll get lucky in this one run!" Just imagine, after all this disappointment, months of farming for zero reward, 500+ hours spent in a solo arena in an MMO, you open the chest and actually see something useful in there... like a Sharpened Maul, or even a Sharpened Inferno. After all these hours spent - to finally say it wasn't for nothing... that feeling would be so awesome...

...
...
...

it was a Charged Sword and an Infused Shield... *** my life.

P.S.: Got sent to this thread by moderator.

I get that thought all the time. Best just to commit to not ever doing it again till they fix it. The chance that you will be disappointed is almost certain.

S1ipperyJim

Malmai wrote: »

Did 52 runs this week and im getting double drops on charged have 40 restos already... Zenimax i agree with player-base this RNG is out of the question you have to provide us decent loot specially if you did like over 100 runs with flawless conqueror and weekly leader boards... Im not gonna live there any pray i dont get resto charged and shields at the end. Im not doing that at least introduce pledge so when you start you pledge yourself for a desired weapon and u can leave crap traits in so at least we have like 10% chance to get what we want... Jesus Christ.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_TristanK

I like the idea that you get to select the weapon type at the end (similar to the prismatic weapon quest) and it chooses a random trait for you. Alternatively it could select the weapon to match one of the weapons you are using.

SanTii.92

Why would you suffer that much angst and frustration for gear that will pump your dps by a measily 2-5%...

Those weapons are not mandatory for anything whatsoever, period.

If you don't like the content, just, for the loge of god, don't play it. As easy as that.

Jeremy

AlexTech0x wrote: »

There is something i really don't understand and here it goes:
vMA is the hardest thing in the game to do ( you rely on your own, once you get "used" to it you realize it is %20 skill %80 rng, if the game wants you die, weapons cannot be either traded or sold ).
Why the RNG? Oh yes! We gotta work for our loot! Wait, getting it done isn't already a lot of work? For those pro players who remember where everything spawn also have in mind that your first run(s) were catastrophic.
Even if there is a lot of RNG involved, i like the place and how it is designed and it is actually the hardest thing i have ever done in any game, but... rewards? NOBODY goes there for a Powered Dagger or a Defending Axe.
I specially asked for an invitation code for this, THIS instance makes people quit, it actually makes me not enjoy PvE anymore because it takes all the joy quote i login with -_-. IT IS NOT fun to run the same over and over without the desired drop, get it out of your head staff, running the exact same SOLO content for things that shouldn't even be there is just idiotic.
Now i don't mind getting prosperous/training monster shoulders from chest (even it it sucks) because the dungeon difficulty compared with vMA has NOTHING to do, but come on...
Im not QQing, Crying or whatever similar you want to name this. But this is a MMO not a single player game.

PS: I'd rather have no comments instead of "oh leave if u want to", "oh then change the game!", if i wanted to i'd have it done.

I disagree with you slightly about its design. I think the gameplay inside VMA is gimmicky and frustrating and saps all of the fun out of it. That is why the random rewards for doing it so bad - because the content itself is more annoying than it is fun.

If it was designed in such a way to be challenging - yet fun - then you wouldn't mind repeating it as much because it would be an enjoyable experience - instead of the torture that it is now.

So RNG isn't the real issue here, at least not in my opinion. It's the content itself - which is frustrating and annoying to the point you don't want to do it again.

Jeremy

DPShiro wrote: »

20% skill? Really?

Is that why some of us do consistent flawless runs, without using seals/power ups and some have problem even clearing it at all?

Wow I must have some really insane luck! I wish that applied to the actual drops though.

And if you don't want comments, why on Nirn did you create a topic on a discussion forum?

There is some skill involved, I won't take that way from you. But I would say your build has just as much to do with it.

Certain builds excel in VMA - where as other character builds (even builds that are perfectly capable of doing well in other veteran content) get obliterated in VMA. And that's some of the problem with it, and why it turns off so many players.

reesenorman

HatchetHaro wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Hey then just don't run it. Seriously if you cannot beat the place or if it's not fun then do not run it. Other gear exists.

Is that "other gear" best-in-slot?
No.

He didnt say vma weapons arent bis, he implied that other gear exists so you can still be competitive.

Jeremy

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

OP didn't mention flawless, just completing VMA which does not require much skill. VMA is causing people to leave the game, full stop. Why ZOS hasn't done anything about that is inexplicable.

If people are leaving the game over optional content, then they were leaving already anyway.

Not necessarily.

I lost interests in playing for awhile after VMA - and I was otherwise enjoying the game. It's just after spending my tokens to buy the DLC exclusively for VMA - it was a huge let down to find out it was such annoying crap.

I thought it was going to provide me with some interesting solo content - and since I enjoyed soloing dungeons and world bosses for the extra challenge I thought I would enjoy this too. Boy was I wrong.

It would be nice if they made some alterations so that it would be more enjoyable for a broader segment of the game's population. Otherwise, I predict most players aren't going to bother with it for long.

AlexTech0x

Oh don't get me wrong, its nice designed. Can be improved? yes, animation canceling and all that *** we already know.
It's just that after 10 times a minute becomes an hour in there, and the end chest just pulls people out of it.

Xrucible

If you are complaining about the weapon RNG join the club.. I know people getting a sharpened staff in their first attempt and people not getting any after almost a year of grinding.. As for the arena I would say maybe 10% RNG..