Why I'll Never do Another Level 50 Crafting Writ!

Fudly_budly

Synfaer wrote: »

OK..I got bored so I did my own cost breakdown.
Some items are approximations but you will get the general message.





.

Yes. Absolutely agree.
IF... I get a temper.
IF...I get a survey.
and that's my whole point IF..!
Because I am crafting. Using a skill that was not free to gain. Because, unlike every other player activity, I have to spend gold to make gold.
That said, let me share the last post in my weekly test. I am not continuing beyond day 5.
RNGoddess finally paid off and I hit the double jackpot:

Behold:


Net profit from November 16th:

20963

Two things in conclusion: First thank you to everyone who took time out to give insight to this thread. Second, if you're a frustrated crafter, like I was, you now have documented proof that there can actually be a payday in "Crafting Lotto." Someday... Maybe...
Good crafting and happy adventuring.

Tygerfire

I'd like to thank everyone who participated on this topic, because it addressed my frustrations I was having constantly grinding to get 60 or so mats a day for WW, BS, and CC.

After reading lots of the topics and paying close attention to all of my writs, I have a much better feel for the situation rather than just blindly doing the dailies as I was.

I realized that the reason it felt like I was taking a loss and not really getting anything worthwhile from the equip writs was because i wasn't actually selling any of my gold rewards and they were just going straight to my craft bag. By selling around 10 of each suddenly crafting seems very profitable..lol. I also took some funds to buy a buffer of materials so I'm not constantly going day to day.

I'm definitely "pro" equipment writs now, and even tempted to level them on my 3 alts.

Good Crafting everyone!!

cyberjanet

My RNG isn't designed to give me fancy tempers as quest rewards. Even the glass motif pages are far and few between. I did get some characters to the point where they could get surveys in Craglorn to try and improve my chances of getting nirncrux, but now that I can't get voidcloth, voidstone and nightwood any more, I just stopped. I'm not going to buy materials to do writs, really. The rewards don't cover my costs.

I do the consumable writs. I can't recall that I've ever had a kuta in my reward packet. Mostly I get crappy green glyphs to deconstruct, and a soul gem. I have a fantastic number of soul gems, I will never have to buy them again.

It took a very long time to get the psijic ambrosia pages, even with trading my duplicates, though I do occasionally get frost merriam and bervez juice. Not enough to get rich on, though.

So, I don't think the writs are really worth doing regularly. But hey, if your RNG is designed to give you nice stuff, go for it.

Fudly_budly

cyberjanet wrote: »

My RNG isn't designed to give me fancy tempers as quest rewards. Even the glass motif pages are far and few between. I did get some characters to the point where they could get surveys in Craglorn to try and improve my chances of getting nirncrux, but now that I can't get voidcloth, voidstone and nightwood any more, I just stopped. I'm not going to buy materials to do writs, really. The rewards don't cover my costs.

I do the consumable writs. I can't recall that I've ever had a kuta in my reward packet. Mostly I get crappy green glyphs to deconstruct, and a soul gem. I have a fantastic number of soul gems, I will never have to buy them again.

It took a very long time to get the psijic ambrosia pages, even with trading my duplicates, though I do occasionally get frost merriam and bervez juice. Not enough to get rich on, though.

So, I don't think the writs are really worth doing regularly. But hey, if your RNG is designed to give you nice stuff, go for it.

fyi... since One Tamriel, all ore, clothing, and critters (uunverifed) resource nodes in Craglorn drop nirncrux. It's still rare though.
I would never buy mats to do writs either.
RNGoddess is a heartless witch for sure.

Hawco10

I posted something similar just after the last update. I'm done with crafting writs. Complete waste of my time, materials and resources.

Zedrian

Where did you find out that it is a 30% drop chance for tempering alloys and 20% for surveys?

I am getting way lower percentages (single digit % for surveys, and maybe 1/6 writ for a gold temper)

Reorx_Holybeard

Zedrian wrote: »

Where did you find out that it is a 30% drop chance for tempering alloys and 20% for surveys?

I am getting way lower percentages (single digit % for surveys, and maybe 1/6 writ for a gold temper)

I'm in the process of collecting writ data after OT. The current spreadsheet is available here on Google Docs. Look in the "Raw Writ Data" tab to see the data collected for +90 max-level writs.

So far the statistics are looking like:

• 22-25% for Enchanter/Alchemy Survey Maps (assuming 25%)
• 8-14% for Blacksmith/Clothier/Woodworking Survey Maps (assuming ~12%)
• 31-38% for Kuta/Gold Tempers (assuming ~33%)
• 6-9% for a Psijic Ambrosia Fragment

Zedrian

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

I'm in the process of collecting writ data after OT. The current spreadsheet is available here on Google Docs. Look in the "Raw Writ Data" tab to see the data collected for +90 max-level writs.

So far the statistics are looking like:

• 22-25% for Enchanter/Alchemy Survey Maps (assuming 25%)
• 8-14% for Blacksmith/Clothier/Woodworking Survey Maps (assuming ~12%)
• 31-38% for Kuta/Gold Tempers (assuming ~33%)
• 6-9% for a Psijic Ambrosia Fragment

Awesome, I took the previous table to make a quick Smithing comparison. So far I dont have enough data but I will share my finding once I collected more results.

To be fair, it appears the temper and Kuta drop percent chance is the same. The variation is most likely due to luck. My friend lacked Rosins while I had lots of Rosins, and inversely he had plenty of alloys while I have been struggling to get some.

The assumption of 10-12% for surveys also looks correct.

Thank you for sharing this precious information. The writs are profitable but the margins are so little in comparison to before OT, and maybe ZOS is trying to gradually shave profits from writs?

cazlonb16_ESO

With a sample size of 70ish i have a similar rate for Kuta, but closer to 15% for tempers.

STEVIL

FWIW
ran 7 equip writs today at max tier-10.
All were of the 3 item turn-in.
in addition to the miscellaney gold, xp. and pieces - got 2-3 grand repair, 3 yellows, one survey and of course 6 lesser mat crates.

IMO it was a fine exchange.

akl77

Tygerfire wrote: »

I'd like to thank everyone who participated on this topic, because it addressed my frustrations I was having constantly grinding to get 60 or so mats a day for WW, BS, and CC.

After reading lots of the topics and paying close attention to all of my writs, I have a much better feel for the situation rather than just blindly doing the dailies as I was.

I realized that the reason it felt like I was taking a loss and not really getting anything worthwhile from the equip writs was because i wasn't actually selling any of my gold rewards and they were just going straight to my craft bag. By selling around 10 of each suddenly crafting seems very profitable..lol. I also took some funds to buy a buffer of materials so I'm not constantly going day to day.

I'm definitely "pro" equipment writs now, and even tempted to level them on my 3 alts.

Good Crafting everyone!!

Nowadays I no longer sell gold mats, cos what is the money saved for? Mostly to buy gold mats!
Anything else in the game can be farmed easily.

Asardes

On EU PC rubedite has dropped close to 20g/ingot now. Assuming it takes around 40 ingots to compete a writ, and 3-5 motif stones - I never run out of these because I deconstruct gear but assuming that you do and need to buy them from the vendor for 15 gold - the total cost is closer to 900 gold. The reward contains at least one ornate item that sells for 150-200 gold. Even from a strictly monetary standpoint you will mostly break even. I get a tempering alloy on average every couple of days and those go for about 11.5K on guild stores. So IMO it's more profitable now to do the writs. Before One Tamriel, when top tier materials were rare and expensive it was not very attractive. For example I remember Rubedite going for as high as 80g/ingot at one point, 4x what it is now.

Fudly_budly

I have continued doing the daily crafting writs and my results sync with @STEVIL although I only do them on one toon. Nice!

STEVIL

I must say tho, doing bottom tier crafting writ with top level char seems good for equip.

level 50-cap char with no smith, wood, cloth skill

runs writs
spends 27-30 iron/jute/maple each on pieces parts plus a number of style tokens.
turns them in.
each rewards xp. 600+gold, inspir
each rewards either a tier-1 or tier-10 item for decon/sale (intricate or ornate) Looms like maybe 50/50 between the two tiers.
each rewards either a survey or a crate of iron/maple/jute - 25 pc. ( if crates they pay back almost all the mats used.)
each may reward petty repair which is meh but ok.

net result a good way to turn a few low tier mats into bigger rewards - tho if the intricate item drops you basically end up with more mats than you started with.

Fudly_budly

STEVIL wrote: »

I must say tho, doing bottom tier crafting writ with top level char seems good for equip.

level 50-cap char with no smith, wood, cloth skill

Was wondering about this. I have two "farmer" toons that gather a split between iron/jute/maple and ruby mats. I quest with too so all their skill points are dumped into weap/armor passives. Will roll them on some writs thx @STEVIL

failkiwib16_ESO

If you do writs purely for profit, you can alternatively join random Craglorn groups for daily quests or trials, Celestial motifs and Yokudan motifs still sell for 10k+

If you do writs everyday, it will be profitable - problem is that it's slowpoke compared to the alternative ways of earning gold, and messy if you do it on 8 chars and have to relog etc. and you merely advance your character.
-If you play trials or do dungeons, you actually get good loot you can sell to group members, or motifs that are unbound and can be traded/sold anywhere.

Do writs if you enjoy doing them, it's slowpoke economy but relaxing and still profitable.

Fudly_budly

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

If you do writs purely for profit, you can alternatively join random Craglorn groups for daily quests or trials, Celestial motifs and Yokudan motifs still sell for 10k+

Do writs if you enjoy doing them, it's slowpoke economy but relaxing and still profitable.

True, not a whole lot of excitement in writs. I'm an old guy so less adenaline pumping is a good thing.
Why do either/or?
I do writs early AM over coffee. Not that many groups running 5-7 AM EST. I PUG in the evening (Dolmen/WB) or solo delves for Red Mountain, Spriggan, and/or Spinner which all sell well. Cheers!

THEDKEXPERIENCE

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I do all 6 top level writs about 5 times a week. That's about 20k right there. I think it's fair to say I get a gold temper back about every other day, but have frequently gotten two in one day so that evens out. It's the surveys that throw it over the top. They easily return half of the materials you use over a week.

Checking back in on this thread after a few weeks. While I don't keep records like some of you I have been paying closer attention to my rewards since I originally posted.

I've continued my pattern of doing all 6 writs on one character about 5 times a week. I've had a few days where I get nothing of value so that's a minor annoyance, but many more days where I get at least one gold upgrade material and more than my share of days where I get 2. I even had one day where I got 3 and then yesterday ... 4 gold upgrade materials! Praise to the RNGods on that one.

Also, the Wrothgar event allowed me to stock up on rubedite, ancestor silk and ruby ash so I have 1000+ of each just laying around. While it reduced the price you'd pay for them in stores due to volume, it also means that it'll be cheaper if I ever need to restock.

Long story short, if you do your writs consistently and do all of them, you're gonna make a profit. However, you might not really notice that profit until the next time you gold out a set of gear. When you do and it costs you 100k instead of a million you'll instantly be thrilled you spent 12 minutes a week doing these writs.

Mike0987

Regardless of gold the drop rate on surveys is far too low to even break even on mats. Doing these on several crafters is exceptionally wasteful even with the chance for a gold mat.

STEVIL

Mike0987 wrote: »

Regardless of gold the drop rate on surveys is far too low to even break even on mats. Doing these on several crafters is exceptionally wasteful even with the chance for a gold mat.

Innacurate.

First, its not true for consumables as far as i can tell - esp provisioning and alchemy.

Second, running a lot of low tier equips and i gotta say, with 27-30 mats spent and 25 returned plus a piece the mats are basically a wash without surveys. Since every non-crafter casually harvests tier-1 mats 505 the supply keeps exceeding the demand anyway.

You are basically trading style tokens for gold, xp, insp and surveys now and again.
Even better if the char is top end as the "piece" has about 50/50 chance it seems to be at character level - so you trade some iron mats for a rubedite gear drop intrinsic or ornate.
Surveys hand off to higher harvester for max gains (or other if needed).

Fudly_budly

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I do all 6 top level writs about 5 times a week. That's about 20k right there. I think it's fair to say I get a gold temper back about every other day, but have frequently gotten two in one day so that evens out. It's the surveys that throw it over the top. They easily return half of the materials you use over a week.

Long story short, if you do your writs consistently and do all of them, you're gonna make a profit. However, you might not really notice that profit until the next time you gold out a set of gear. When you do and it costs you 100k instead of a million you'll instantly be thrilled you spent 12 minutes a week doing these writs.

Spot on! The actual evidence continues to point to a constant influx of profitable mats, etc. Nice!

Fudly_budly

As you recall @STEVIL I was a skeptic at first but the numbers just keep supporting writ profits. I've bumped two more toons to doing daily writs. Love that the level 1 Mat Shipments are always iron, maple, or jute. I'm a believer

helediron

STEVIL wrote: »

Mike0987 wrote: »

Regardless of gold the drop rate on surveys is far too low to even break even on mats. Doing these on several crafters is exceptionally wasteful even with the chance for a gold mat.

Innacurate.

First, its not true for consumables as far as i can tell - esp provisioning and alchemy.

Second, running a lot of low tier equips and i gotta say, with 27-30 mats spent and 25 returned plus a piece the mats are basically a wash without surveys. Since every non-crafter casually harvests tier-1 mats 505 the supply keeps exceeding the demand anyway.

You are basically trading style tokens for gold, xp, insp and surveys now and again.
Even better if the char is top end as the "piece" has about 50/50 chance it seems to be at character level - so you trade some iron mats for a rubedite gear drop intrinsic or ornate.
Surveys hand off to higher harvester for max gains (or other if needed).

What does low level writs got to do with thread topic?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Mike0987 wrote: »

Regardless of gold the drop rate on surveys is far too low to even break even on mats. Doing these on several crafters is exceptionally wasteful even with the chance for a gold mat.

Using XBox prices (which are probably 3-4 times higher than PC but what I know) a stack of 200 rubedite sells for 10 to 14k. If you buy 2 stacks at a terrible price I guess you would be out 30k. 1 Tempering Alloy is worth 20k minimum. It would take you 1.5 TAs to replace the cost of those 400 rubedite. If you deconstruct trash drops and farm even a minimum amount you'll never burn through 400 rubedite doing only writs on 1 character. And this example removes every other reward you're bound to get ... like surveys which net you about 120 back anyway.

Sorry but you're wrong.

Fudly_budly

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Mike0987 wrote: »

Regardless of gold the drop rate on surveys is far too low to even break even on mats. Doing these on several crafters is exceptionally wasteful even with the chance for a gold mat.

Using XBox prices (which are probably 3-4 times higher than PC but what I know) a stack of 200 rubedite sells for 10 to 14k. If you buy 2 stacks at a terrible price I guess you would be out 30k. 1 Tempering Alloy is worth 20k minimum. It would take you 1.5 TAs to replace the cost of those 400 rubedite. If you deconstruct trash drops and farm even a minimum amount you'll never burn through 400 rubedite doing only writs on 1 character. And this example removes every other reward you're bound to get ... like surveys which net you about 120 back anyway.

Sorry but you're wrong.

yep! even the "worst" only used 59 ruby ingots. I get that back daily deconstructing junk drops easily. I don't think I'll ever actually have to buy rubedite. Honestly, since I don't have the craft bag, I will probably begin selling 200 stacks once the Orsinium glut dries up a little.

Bouldercleave

If you are buying mats you are at a severe disadvantage when it comes to making money on writs.

You can harvest enough mats in about 30 minutes for at LEAST a weeks writs and most of the time you don't even need to do that. I usually run pretty even on the mat usage vs the surveys / decon, so I rarely even have to harvest or farm at all.

Writs themselves are not the money maker here, but they are a consistent way of getting gold mats which is where the REAL profit is.

STEVIL

helediron wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Mike0987 wrote: »

Regardless of gold the drop rate on surveys is far too low to even break even on mats. Doing these on several crafters is exceptionally wasteful even with the chance for a gold mat.

Innacurate.

First, its not true for consumables as far as i can tell - esp provisioning and alchemy.

Second, running a lot of low tier equips and i gotta say, with 27-30 mats spent and 25 returned plus a piece the mats are basically a wash without surveys. Since every non-crafter casually harvests tier-1 mats 505 the supply keeps exceeding the demand anyway.

You are basically trading style tokens for gold, xp, insp and surveys now and again.
Even better if the char is top end as the "piece" has about 50/50 chance it seems to be at character level - so you trade some iron mats for a rubedite gear drop intrinsic or ornate.
Surveys hand off to higher harvester for max gains (or other if needed).

What does low level writs got to do with thread topic?

ICYMI this thread like most threads has varied in topics including other subjects not strictly referenced in the title or the first post during its run.

if you meant your post to strictly reference onlt the title and first post and nothing else... then my answer changes to... "you are wrong." See the above posts.

Lirkin

So far I can't see the value in the highest level writs. They need to give high level materials for them to be worth it for me. I always get the low level mats in return. Also making me go out into Craglorn to do the surveys is crazy.

imredneckson

Fudly_budly wrote: »

This is a zero-sum cost basis analysis of my blacksmithing writ from yesterday. It very clearly lays out why doing these repeatable quests are a gold sink. I'll never do another.
Blacksmithing
Toon level 50 Blacksmithing 50 ALL Passives. level T10

Writ: Craft Helm 1 Pauldon 2 Dagger 2
Materials: Amount MM price Gold cost
Rubedite Ingots: 59 36 2124g
Motif stones: 5 4 20g
Total Marginal Cost 2144g

Reward:
Blacksmith Crate 10
Grand Repair Kit 1 159 159g
Sardonyx 1 4 4g
Sabatons (ornate) 1 105 105g
Quicksilver Ingots 25 10 250g
Inspiration 20,000 (worthless!)
Gold 604g
Total Marginal Reward 1122g
Net profit -1022g -91.09%


Now, I obviously didn't buy the materials but even assuming that savings; my most profitable action would be to merely sell the rubedite. Further, I don't even have to do the clothier or woodworking writs because, intuitively, I know they are also gold sinks.
Next, can the level 50/T10 writs be re-crafted by ZOS to be profitable for crafters? Sure! ZOS could simply raise the gold payout but that's both unimaginative and arbitrary. There are any number of approaches to make level 50/T10 writs viable.

Here's what I would do:
1. Move the level 50/T10 crafting writs to Cyrodiil and have the quest given by the siege equipment vendor.
2. Change the item crafted to siege machines (catapults, ballistas, etc.) and tents, tabards, and banners. Make the writs weekly vs. daily (except Haderus)
3. Allow use of any level mats. Crafter can complete only one component part of siege gear per day. (Haderus would be components only) Crafter must use Cyrodiil crafting stations.
4. When complete report to siege vendor for writ turn-in.
5. Change inspiration reward to appropriate level of alliance points for achievement of level 3 campaign rewards. Tweak and balance type of reward. Crafters are in a support role - not combat!

Such a system could also open up the crafting of siege equipment and allow crafter to sell to other players for gold. After all, isn't the war in Cyrodiil what we're supposed to be winning? Can't be done without siege machines.

Gold mats, crafting surveys, gold writs, and more most every single day. I think it's more than worth it

Asardes

The topic is old At the moment prices have changed a lot:

Raw gear materials have decreased a lot. On EU-PC ruby ash is about 8 gold, leather & rubedite about 10 gold and ancestor silk about 25 gold. Assuming that each writ costs on average about 40 materials, the average cost will be:
woodworking: 40x8 = 320 gold (gives 604 gold)
blacksmithing: 40x10 = 400 gold (gives 604 gold)
clothier: ((40x25)*3+(40x10))/4 = 850 gold (gives 604 gold) - 3/4 writs require silk, 1/4 requires leather
Only the clothier is apparently a slight monetary loss, but in fact you will receive either an intricate or ornate item worth ~200 gold that will offset much of the residual cost.
O
n the other hand nirnroot prices are quite high right now, about 250 gold, and you require 3 of them for 3/4 writs. Assuming you have the Lorkhan tears needed for the other one, which puts the cost to 0 for that, the average cost will be 3*3/4*250=562 gold, slightly less than the monetary reward. The required potions can be made in large batches and kept in bank, and can be done with relatively cheap ingredients because they only require one effect. So alchemy writs will break even when it comes to money spent vs. earned. The other 2 consumables are clear winners as the materials involved are common & cheap and provisioning can also be pre-done in batches.