Has anyone tried a 100% crit build?

DangerMan

With the new sets in 1T, I think it might be easy to hit 100% crit on characters. I'm trying to see if that sort of a build can put out more DPS in end-game trials as compared to the typical TBS meta builds that everyone seems to be running.

Has anyone tested it out or run numbers on a full crit build after the recent update? You would probably still have a decent amount of spell/weapon damage and stamina/magicka, given that the new sets should make it quite easy to stack crit.

Qbiken

You can´t achieve 100% crit (even if you stats says so it has a cap, not sure what it is tho. Think it´s 90 something....

OrphanHelgen

Qbiken wrote: »

You can´t achieve 100% crit (even if you stats says so it has a cap, not sure what it is tho. Think it´s 90 something....

Yes you can.

Khajiit gets 8%
Nightblades give 3%
Thief mundus all divines
Precice traits, both daggers.
5 Leviathan.
7 medium

Not sure how much crit we are at already, but Im 100% sure its possible to achieve 100% crit chance, even more.

Even though you do have 100% crit, you still need high base dmg for the crits to actually do dmg. Maelstrom flurry enchant are a good example here, where you can go crit / penetration with low wpn dmg, and still get good results, which is one of the reason twiceborn star used to be best in slot.

UrQuan

It wasn't that difficult to get above 100% even before One Tamriel. My old setup for my Khajiit NB was about 104% crit. I never checked to see if I actually did get a crit 100% of the time, though. It seemed like it, but it's just as possible that there is a hard cap that's just high enough that I never noticed when I wasn't getting a crit.

AlnilamE

That may be overkill though. I think once you are past 60% crit, you're probably better off going for extra Crit Damage to make your crits more effective.

DangerMan

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

You can´t achieve 100% crit (even if you stats says so it has a cap, not sure what it is tho. Think it´s 90 something....

Yes you can.

Khajiit gets 8%
Nightblades give 3%
Thief mundus all divines
Precice traits, both daggers.
5 Leviathan.
7 medium

Not sure how much crit we are at already, but Im 100% sure its possible to achieve 100% crit chance, even more.

Even though you do have 100% crit, you still need high base dmg for the crits to actually do dmg. Maelstrom flurry enchant are a good example here, where you can go crit / penetration with low wpn dmg, and still get good results, which is one of the reason twiceborn star used to be best in slot.

Yup, that's what I'm wondering. With the flurry you get weapon damage and with a 100% crit you may get some great damage numbers. But I don't know if anyone has actually already tested it out or not..

KaleidoscopeEyz

You're wasting your stats going for 100%. Once you hit 60-70% you should start investing in critical damage increases, weapon/spell power and resource pool increasing. A 100% crit build will be a far lower DPS then what I'm describing.

CultOfMMO

it'd be somewhat interesting but, doubtful of how effective it is

maybe with 100% major force uptime, meaning all 11 other people in the trial is blowing horns for you every 10 seconds. But lets be real here why would anyone sacrifice their own dps so you can show off a non-meta build and get rich and famous

DangerMan

KaleidoscopeEyz wrote: »

You're wasting your stats going for 100%. Once you hit 60-70% you should start investing in critical damage increases, weapon/spell power and resource pool increasing. A 100% crit build will be a far lower DPS then what I'm describing.

You can put more CP in crit damage multiplier to boost your damage. And let's say you run Leviathan instead of TBS - your main resource pool (stamina) would still be the same. You'd just lose 1k less Magicka and 1k less Health..

DangerMan

CultOfMMO wrote: »

it'd be somewhat interesting but, doubtful of how effective it is

maybe with 100% major force uptime, meaning all 11 other people in the trial is blowing horns for you every 10 seconds. But lets be real here why would anyone sacrifice their own dps so you can show off a non-meta build and get rich and famous

I'd assume major force will make it very very effective, but it might be better than running TBS anyways in terms of basic DPS.

UrQuan

KaleidoscopeEyz wrote: »

You're wasting your stats going for 100%. Once you hit 60-70% you should start investing in critical damage increases, weapon/spell power and resource pool increasing. A 100% crit build will be a far lower DPS then what I'm describing.

Incidentally, this is why my Khajiit nightblade no longer has a build that's over 100% crit... I realized that although I was constantly getting crits I wasn't doing that much damage. My current setup for him still has a very high crit chance (I can't remember what it's at exactly - I think somewhere around 85%), but has much higher weapon damage than before, including the Briarheart set which procs very frequently with such a high crit chance, so it generally procs virtually right away once the cooldown is up. I've probably got its bonus weapon damage and heals on crits active roughly 60% of the time. I also use 2-piece Molag Kena in that setup, so any time I like I can proc that set in order to get another massive boost of weapon damage.

Preyfar

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Not sure how much crit we are at already, but Im 100% sure its possible to achieve 100% crit chance, even more.

What he means is that even at 100%+ crit you will never crit 100% of the time. I've had my crit up to 109% and I still never landed every crit.

POps75p

this is a great question to really know the answer to, I just reached 80% plus with my magic Temp, and ran white gold tower (I didn't have the 2nd prec sword at the time I did so it was around 70) I didn't die at all and had no problem, but the rest of the people that were in my group says that it max out at around 57% so it would be useless to go that high. so right now i'm at a loss as to what's correct

tks

daswahnsinn

I go towards high damage builds with 40% or so crit. I feel that works best for my play style. I like having some regent and a decent resource pool. So I don't get crazy with trying to max out something and lose playability.

GreenSoup2HoT

Qbiken wrote: »

You can´t achieve 100% crit (even if you stats says so it has a cap, not sure what it is tho. Think it´s 90 something....

You must think there is a penetration cap to lol. The only caps that exist are impen and armour/spell resists.

Edit: I think hp regen may also. Not to sure though.

Mady

@Alcast did it on the PTS once, but I don't know if it was worth it.

DangerMan

Mady wrote: »

@Alcast did it on the PTS once, but I don't know if it was worth it.

Let's see what he says - not sure how long ago he tried it.

It might be worth looking into again now that ZOS has the full crit sets out. You wouldn't lose out on the other stats as much as before..

KaleidoscopeEyz

You can put more CP in crit damage multiplier to boost your damage. And let's say you run Leviathan instead of TBS - your main resource pool (stamina) would still be the same. You'd just lose 1k less Magicka and 1k less Health..

Yes, but if you get to 60-70% crit the extra 25% crit chance isn't that much when you could just switch to Hundings or Julianos for the damage increases. I didn't test or do the math but I would think you would do more dps from increases to every hit rather than a 50% boost on one out of every 4 hits. I also think the Treasure Hunter set is a better magicka version of Leviathan.

Personally I don't like the TBS meta as I don't run trials so Julianos and Spinners works better for me as a MagBlade.

s7732425ub17_ESO

A year ago you could make a stamina build with over 100% crit. This means every single hit is a guaranteed crit.

And nothing has changed; you can still do this. There is no cap. You can also get magicka crit much higher now- 70s or low 80s.

SolarCat02

A few people in our guild found this, and felt the rate of return wasn't worth it once they reached around 75-85%.

We are Xbox, though, so no easy way to test empirically. I would be interested in anything PC is able to test regarding the value of this.

UrQuan

KaleidoscopeEyz wrote: »

You can put more CP in crit damage multiplier to boost your damage. And let's say you run Leviathan instead of TBS - your main resource pool (stamina) would still be the same. You'd just lose 1k less Magicka and 1k less Health..

Yes, but if you get to 60-70% crit the extra 25% crit chance isn't that much when you could just switch to Hundings or Julianos for the damage increases. I didn't test or do the math but I would think you would do more dps from increases to every hit rather than a 50% boost on one out of every 4 hits. I also think the Treasure Hunter set is a better magicka version of Leviathan.

Personally I don't like the TBS meta as I don't run trials so Julianos and Spinners works better for me as a MagBlade.

The extra 25% crit chance is worthwhile when it causes certain sets to proc more often, increasing your damage... But depending on the sets you're using it may not be worth it.

nimander99

I'm pretty sure you cant actually get 100% crit or mitigation etc...

UrQuan

nimander99 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you cant actually get 100% crit or mitigation etc...

There's definitely a hard cap on mitigation (you reach it at roughly 33K resistance and IIRC that gives you 50% mitigation) but if there's a hard cap on crit, it's very very high. I know that when I was running at over 100% crit it definitely seemed like every single hit I did was a crit. I wasn't actually tracking though, so it's possible that some weren't, but it still must have been very close to 100% if it wasn't completely 100%.

Curtdogg47

At 55% crit chance I seem to have crit hits often enough that I am usually surprised when I don't get a critical hit.

PS4_ZeColmeia

While it's been said, after 60% (i often range between 55-65% with the same "feel") you want to go crit damage. However, in a 100% crit rate this isn't true, however just going to hold true. Let's figure out the touch points. This is because of the popularity of impen. If you don't PVP, this concern drops but doesn't 'win' on damage. Let's do a little math.

100% crit rate
100damage*10attacks*100%*1.5=1500damage on average

60% crit rate + Shadow Mundus + Medusa
100damage*10attacks*60%*(1.5+.183+.12)=1018damage on average

But factor in normal high impen (7*3.5%+15%Resilient [38 points]=39.5%) from PvP

100% crit rate
100*10*100%*(1.5-.395)=1105

78%+shadow+medusa
100*10*78%*(1.803-.395)=1105

60%crit rate+shadow+Medusa
100*10*60%*(1.803-.395)=844

76% crit rate
100*10*76%*(1.5-.395)=844

So looking at these last equations we realize that using shadow and medusa = we only have to achieve 78% crit rate (reasonable for magic and stamina users) to equal the same damage of 100% crit chance. This opens up a lot more sets than the 100% crit chance build. This ease of achievement makes this the gold standard for both resources as well.

The last equation shows that using the normal 60% crit goal that medusa + shadow is a better option when outside of armor sets that give lots of critical via passives or set bonuses as you need 16% more critical chance to make up the difference in the aggregate.

This of course does not factor elfborn/precise strikes which would proportionally affect the differences (not in terms of CP spend, but % effectiveness). That said, there is about a 16-22% gap in the crit rate to crit damage as crit rate goes up. I personally believe crit damage is more effective as you can swap out several sets/have different weapon traits and stay there vs 100% all the time BiS for weapon crit only builds.

Vogtard

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Let's do a little math.

You should also add the non-crit component to your calculations because it's dependent on the crit chance itself as (100-crit)%.
I'm trying to reproduce your numbers, but fail. Did you simulate the 10 rolls?

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

60% crit rate + Shadow Mundus + Medusa
100damage*10attacks*60%*(1.5+.183+.12)=1018damage on average

According to this equation, crits only would be expected to give 1082.
Add 40% of normal 100 dmg hits = 400, summing to 1482.

With pvp perks

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

78%+shadow+medusa
100*10*78%*(1.803-.395)=1105

I get 1098..
Add (100-78)% of normal hits, 220, giving total 1318.

With only 25% crit shadow+medusa, you're on the same level as 100% crit, under pvp conditions.
Outside of pvp, you'd need 63% to get similar numbers.

In 10 hits, it's impossible that 7.8 of them are crits so I calculated the means of ->infinite hits and scaled down to 10 to compare numbers from the previous post.

Alcast

Mady wrote: »

@Alcast did it on the PTS once, but I don't know if it was worth it.

DangerMan wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

@Alcast did it on the PTS once, but I don't know if it was worth it.

Let's see what he says - not sure how long ago he tried it.

It might be worth looking into again now that ZOS has the full crit sets out. You wouldn't lose out on the other stats as much as before..

You can easily reach 100% Crit with for example a Kahjiit NB.

Is it useful? Not really because there is just certain sets that are way too strong to pass on like Minor Slayer buff for example. Plus Sharpened is stronger as long as you dont have the boss at 0 Resistance.
But you can definitely get close to if you use Leviathan as a NB Kahjiit.

I mean you can get over a 100% crit if you wish to do so At least the numbers look "pretty" then haha