Alliance skill lines

tinythinker

For a couple of years I've suggested and tinkered with the idea of an item set specific to each Alliance with unique bonuses that you could somehow earn/craft through PvP in Cyrodiil.

In a similar vein, what about an Alliance-specific skill line? I'm not talking about a PvP-based or exclusively Cyrodill skill line just a general skill line that could, depending on how it is made, be mostly or completely PvP neutral. If people can think of a mix of minor PvP and general-use ideas that's great, too. But don't get too narrow in your thinking.

If ZOS were to create such a thing, should it have only a couple of active skills and lots of passives like Vampirism? Or more active skills and only a couple of passives like Undaunted? Or a full skill line including an ultimate?

What skills/passives do you think would be fun and appropriately thematic for each Alliance?

EDITED FOR CLARIFICATION

chaserstorm16909

There are already 2 skill lines based on the alliance war available to everyone. If they made separate skill lines for each alliance, people would complain that the other alliances have better skills than theirs does. It could create even more imbalance in already greatly imbalanced game.

tinythinker

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

There are already 2 skill lines based on the alliance war available to everyone. If they made separate skill lines for each alliance, people would complain that the other alliances have better skills than theirs does. It could create even more imbalance in already greatly imbalanced game.

This isn't about PvP, it's based on which Alliance you pick in character creation and would probably go under the World grouping of skill lines. The options could all be fluff type passives or they could be useful skills. Either way they add something to the flavor/theme of each Alliance and make choosing one Alliance over another more meaningful.

Eshja

My brain is not able to imagine something like this which is balanced or even if it would be, pvp players not screaming on zone that alliance passives make their enemies op. The game is too unbalanced and players are too less mature for this.

Silver_Strider

ZOS failed attempt #1

EP Siege Weapons do more damage to walls
DC repair walls faster
AD flips flags faster

You only captured because your Siege Weapons are OP/Can Flip Flags in 2 seconds
Or
You only resisted because you repaired the wall before we could get into the keep.

ZOS failed attempt #2

EP Repair Kits cost less
DC Siege Weapons cost less
AD earn more AP from capturing Keeps

"AD players is flooding the Market with all the alliance crap and are making bank, totally unfair when all we get are cheaper Repair Kits/Siege Weapons"


ZOS failed attempt #3

EP Siege Weapons do more damage to Walls
DC Siege Weapons have more range
AD Siege Weapons do more damage to players

"We can't even attack DC to defend our keep because we can't reach them. Who cares if our siege does more damage if we can't even hit them!?"

3 strikes and you're out.

tinythinker

To clarify again, I'm not talking exclusively about PvP-based abilities. I initially had thought at PvP-based Alliance-specific gear, but last night I decided to look more broadly because we need more imagination. There are many fun passives that could be added that would be more or less neutral in Cyrodiil and even active abilities that would be of no or only limited use in PvP that could still give distinction and a special flavor or feel to each Alliance.

And the balancing shtick is trotted out every time someone mentions anything new, yet, balance is always a moving target. If you are going to wait until near-balance is achieved and stable before even having fun speculation about new things, that's fine, but new things will keep coming out anyway: expanded Undaunted skill line, addition of Legerdemain skill line, Thieve's Guild skill line, Dark Brotherhood skill line, ultimates added to Weapon skill lines.

There's still plenty of room to look at more ways of expanding game-play options while also breathing life back into the value of picking one Alliance over another. Let's explore those possibilities.

Beardimus

I like the concept, I think more should be made of the Alliances. Personally think the game would be better without the any race pack allowed in PvP. Make alliance mean something

Enslaved

There could be something done here. For example, you could revive your native alliance races faster than other races that "deflected" to your side. Maybe have a small bonus when you heal them or something, like 1-2%. Give them ability to respawn further from alliance camps. Make them deal more damage from siege weapons to "traitors" that are in war on the enemy side. But all of these could be done without making any separate AvA skill line.

tinythinker

Beardimus wrote: »

I like the concept, I think more should be made of the Alliances. Personally think the game would be better without the any race pack. Make alliance mean something

Well, we can't get rid of the any race, any Alliance option. So working with/around it is the only way to make something distinct or to make Alliances matter.

A simple skill line isn't the only way. Lots of possibilities are out there. I brainstormed some good and not so good ones in another thread a while back that focused exclusively on PvP which is an obvious area to focus on. But that focus is narrow, those ideas would take much more work, and many people would be very unhappy having bonuses/restrictions in PvP that are Alliance-based. Any time you talk about making changes in PvP there will be howls of discontent.

So a non-PvP-centered skill line or a skill line that only has a small effect in PvP is a simpler option to explore. It is definitely fits way more easily fits into the current game design system without lots of rewriting basic of code to add entirely new features.

Sirvandal

................

tinythinker

Enslaved wrote: »

There could be something done here. For example, you could revive your native alliance races faster than other races that "deflected" to your side. Maybe have a small bonus when you heal them or something, like 1-2%. Give them ability to respawn further from alliance camps. Make them deal more damage from siege weapons to "traitors" that are in war on the enemy side. But all of these could be done without making any separate AvA skill line.

Yes, that goes along more with some ideas for this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/250786/campaing-pride-alliance-pride Lots of ideas for PvP that encourage faction distinctions and pride.

No problem discussing that, too, but, again, I am not suggesting an AvA skill line here for this thread. I mean, that is one option, but it isn't the only option. I was personally thinking of something under the World group of skill lines that is of interest even to those who will never PvP. My other thread linked above was all PvP-based, but right now in PvE there is not much at all for Alliance distinction or choice. I'd like to see that change.

Van_0S

When keeps health is below 25%.
DC
Passives:
1. increase spell and phyical dmg to players at 25% health by 5%.
2. Minor protection and Minor Maim. When the alliance as an emperor.
.

AD
Passives:
1. Increase spell and physical penetration by 3% to players.
2. Minor force and expedition. When the alliance as an emperor.

EP
Passives:
1. Gain Empowerment, always active.
2. Minor heroism. When the alliance as an emperor.

Note: these passives will be active if the player is in the keep not outside

stevepdodson_ESO888

Total "fluff" skills

AD...heads glow yellow
DC...hands glow blue
EP...Weapons glow red

No advantage to anyone

Van_0S

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Total "fluff" skills

AD...heads glow yellow
DC...hands glow blue
EP...Weapons glow red

No advantage to anyone

I like the idea of an aura glow.

tinythinker

Players here spend a decent amount of time critiquing and suggesting active skills while generally spending less time writing up new passives. So since I am asking for suggestions for a new skill line that may be made up mostly or entirely of passives (see “Legerdemain”, “Thieves Guild”, and “Dark Brotherhood”), it’s a good idea to give an example of the process. It’s kind of obvious and there are other ways to do it, but that’s what a good example does: it gives the gist yet leaves things open for other approaches.

First, consider that anything in the game can require a passive if you wish. Want to be able to buy and sell from merchants? Spend a skill point. Want to be able to travel between zones? Spend a skill point. Want to be able to use the respec shrines? Spend a skill point. And so on. Of course, having to spend skill points on every little thing would get frustrating, especially things that already exist in-game. And we are talking about Alliance-specific boons. So that means adding options that don’t currently exist and which can be tied, in either PvE or PvP, to your particular Alliance affiliation.

Next, we need a list of potential options to add that can then be purchased with skill points. Now, not all of these should necessarily require skill points. Some could just be given to you by the fact that you choose an Alliance. But passives are also useful because they tell you what you get for joining an NPC Guild, choosing a particular race, choosing a particular class, training in a particular weapon or armor type, etc. The following is a very short list that only scratches the surface of the directions in which we can go as we think up an Alliance skill line.

We could add:

*A discount when buying/extra profit when selling from merchants in your home Alliance

*Exclusive extra (new!) dialogue options when doing the questline(s) of your home Alliance such as those that exist based on other quests completed, being a vampire or werewolf, and your race

*Access to an exclusive area in your home Alliance; not a whole new full zone or an exclusive town or city, but a locale within those areas, such as a garden or a special building

*Crafting bonuses, perhaps including being able to reforge weapons and armor in your character’s racial style at a crafting station in a particular zone within your race’s home province at some significant cost or requirement

*Rare fish bonus in your home Alliance
Increased chance for or amount of secondary mats (fishing bait and alchemical ingredients) when harvesting nodes

*A discount for fast-traveling to a zone in your home Alliance

*A discount when paying off a bounty to a guard in your home Alliance

*Access to Alliance-specific dailies in service to your Alliance’s leaders and organizations (for example, maybe quests from the Eyes of the Queen, the Ring of Daggers, or the Hidden Armigers)

As you can see I am partial here to to focusing on PvE passives though I do have other thoughts for distinguishing Alliances in PvP and rewarding faction loyalty in Cyrodiil. My main goal by adding an Alliance-specific skill line is to give something distinct to any player based on which Alliance they choose, regardless of whether they participate in the Alliance War. Some bonuses can be combined together in a single passive. Some are interesting and some less so. Again, there is much more that can be done with such passives, this is just a starter list.

Finally, there is the question of what counts toward progression of the skill line. This one is simple--completing the quests associated with the Cadwell’s storyline for your home Alliance (i.e. the quests where you are directly working for your monarch and associated royal agents) as well perhaps as the Alliance-specific dailies if those are added.

Ghost-Shot

There used to be 2 skill lines that you had to PvP for more than an hour to earn, that was a nice way to get people who otherwise wouldn't try it into PvP. It's how I got started and I spend at least 75% of my time there since then. But there are people who for some reason are afraid of engaging other players and that's why we can't have nice things.