Is it me or is it utterly pointless to use a siege.

Soundwave

From a healer perspective, so many people stand in red circles. Either they rely on healers or damage from siege don't hurt. Upping the damage a bit might decrease common stupid factor that cyrodiil is plaque with.

I also understand that sieges shouldn't do a 100% of damage, but it should do more 10%. Maybe 25%, it's siege and it should be considered a threat. Not a jump around using vigor like its no big deal.

DeadlyRecluse

Something that should be considered here: not everyone plays in a CP-enabled environment. Further buffs to siege should really be applied only in CP campaigns.

Siege hurts like oblivion in Azuras.

Alucardo

Telel wrote: »

Soundwave wrote: »

I wasn't around at luanch, but I hope using a siege meant something. Now all players do is stand in red circle. With the increase in cp level, why isn't sieges getting a buff also.

Uhmm...this one would like to see these players who can stand right under an oil bath and not take damage.

They also want them to teach their trick to the dumbminion players whose entire purpose in life seems to be to stand in a breach waiting for the next shot from a siege weapon.

Can confirm - oil still hurts, a lot.

Soundwave

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Something that should be considered here: not everyone plays in a CP-enabled environment. Further buffs to siege should really be applied only in CP campaigns.

Siege hurts like oblivion in Azuras.

Yes I second that, PVPers already cry enough don't need to add anymore gas to the fire.

Manoekin

Robbmrp wrote: »

It isn't just in CP Campaigns that this an issue. I was in Azura the other day using cold fire and the only time I was able to kill someone with it was when I could hit them at least 3 times. When your in a NO CP Campaign and they can mitigate that much siege damage there's a problem..... @ZOS_BrianWheeler siege weapons need to be buffed, no one should be able to survive 2 or more hits from a siege weapon regardless of what it is or what sets they have. It's time to bring back death for standing in stupid.....

And what makes you think point-and-click on cooldown is any more intelligent than standing in a red circle (especially when a lot of red circles don't even show up)? Should you take damage while operating siege, because it's a brainless act? At some point you have to realize you leveled that character for a reason and have to know how to play it. Crutches aren't there to do the killing for you.

Robbmrp

Manoekin wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

It isn't just in CP Campaigns that this an issue. I was in Azura the other day using cold fire and the only time I was able to kill someone with it was when I could hit them at least 3 times. When your in a NO CP Campaign and they can mitigate that much siege damage there's a problem..... @ZOS_BrianWheeler siege weapons need to be buffed, no one should be able to survive 2 or more hits from a siege weapon regardless of what it is or what sets they have. It's time to bring back death for standing in stupid.....

And what makes you think point-and-click on cooldown is any more intelligent than standing in a red circle (especially when a lot of red circles don't even show up)? Should you take damage while operating siege, because it's a brainless act? At some point you have to realize you leveled that character for a reason and have to know how to play it. Crutches aren't there to do the killing for you.

It's siege fire.... It's supposed to be devastating when it hits... Just because Zos created the point and click ability to fire it doesn't mean it should hit you like a pillow. When your in a dungeon standing in red you really pay for it and sometimes it's instant death. Why should siege fire be any less deadly regardless if your operating one or not? Even if they aren't on a siege weapon, most people can easily heal through multiple siege hits now with the sets we have.

Soundwave

Manoekin wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

It isn't just in CP Campaigns that this an issue. I was in Azura the other day using cold fire and the only time I was able to kill someone with it was when I could hit them at least 3 times. When your in a NO CP Campaign and they can mitigate that much siege damage there's a problem..... @ZOS_BrianWheeler siege weapons need to be buffed, no one should be able to survive 2 or more hits from a siege weapon regardless of what it is or what sets they have. It's time to bring back death for standing in stupid.....

And what makes you think point-and-click on cooldown is any more intelligent than standing in a red circle (especially when a lot of red circles don't even show up)? Should you take damage while operating siege, because it's a brainless act? At some point you have to realize you leveled that character for a reason and have to know how to play it. Crutches aren't there to do the killing for you.

Why wouldn't u take damage by controlling a siege. If u died while controlling then I just tarred out. I am not fighter, i am a healer. I think we should all hold hands and sing koombia my lord by a campfire.

Sandman929

I use siege all the time to knock down walls, but sometimes I'll just charge right at the wall and start hitting it with my sword.

Soundwave

Got a question its a little off topic, but it possible to knock down all walls of a Keep?

DeadlyRecluse

Soundwave wrote: »

Got a question its a little off topic, but it possible to knock down all walls of a Keep?

Yep. There's a screenshot floating around of some Emp in a dead campaign taking down every wall because they were bored.

caeliusstarbreaker

Robbmrp wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

It isn't just in CP Campaigns that this an issue. I was in Azura the other day using cold fire and the only time I was able to kill someone with it was when I could hit them at least 3 times. When your in a NO CP Campaign and they can mitigate that much siege damage there's a problem..... @ZOS_BrianWheeler siege weapons need to be buffed, no one should be able to survive 2 or more hits from a siege weapon regardless of what it is or what sets they have. It's time to bring back death for standing in stupid.....

And what makes you think point-and-click on cooldown is any more intelligent than standing in a red circle (especially when a lot of red circles don't even show up)? Should you take damage while operating siege, because it's a brainless act? At some point you have to realize you leveled that character for a reason and have to know how to play it. Crutches aren't there to do the killing for you.

It's siege fire.... It's supposed to be devastating when it hits... Just because Zos created the point and click ability to fire it doesn't mean it should hit you like a pillow. When your in a dungeon standing in red you really pay for it and sometimes it's instant death. Why should siege fire be any less deadly regardless if your operating one or not? Even if they aren't on a siege weapon, most people can easily heal through multiple siege hits now with the sets we have.

My stone trebs hit for like 13k. I don't really see that as pillow dmg. And there are a myriad of reasons why siege shouldn't be buffed in dmg or anything for that matter. For the same rationale that because zos created it, the argument carries the same amount of weight as to why it it also shouldn't be touched. If siege is "supposed to be devastating" than it should also "supposed to be" transported by numerous people, and/or constructed by numerous people and/or fired by numerous people.

Barring the fact that there is no safe zone from it because players just wildly out down siege every where cause merrrgghhhh they musnt live!....Siege is fine, you get a burst dmg that is at the higher end of the mean for player aoe dmg, it far surpasses any things range, can grant debuffs, and is cheap enough to abandon one and place another down. 1-2 siege shots on a player that isn't paying attention or if afk will kill them, and those that are attentive enough to react or have a teammate with heals, live.

caeliusstarbreaker

I suppose, if you wanted a basic response to your conundrum, if siege is pointless, then why are they so prevalent?

If smaller numbers are not supposed to defeat larger numbers, then 1 siege is not supposed defeat larger numbers either.

Beepbeep

As a vampire, I'll say that siege can really hurt. As a "sieger", yes, it seems to do little to most other players. I think it would be interesting if it did. Considering that's the point of the Alliance Support tree. How often do you see shields up? I rarely see them (i.e, the dont work well for me with large groups anyway.....too laggy/buggy). At this point, not sure if it's even viable though.

If anything, I'd like to be able to take down sieges faster. The wall is usually down before a you can even destroy another siege. I haven't played much PvP since the radius changes though, so maybe it's better now?

vortexman11

Got hit for a 17.4k Cold Stone treb the other day, definitely needs a buff....

Look, if you want siege to be effect you have to use it properly, shooting one random shot into the middle of 30 people isn't going to kill anyone... find a friend... time some trebuchet shots... watch the AP flow, if you don't have anyone to coordinate with, focus on the faster firing catapults, you can run 3 at a time and get them to hit within like 1 second of each other... Just as groups coordinate with their heals and purges and such, others can coordinate their siege, don't be lazy, stop asking for one shot mechanics.

Soundwave

vortexman11 wrote: »

Got hit for a 17.4k Cold Stone treb the other day, definitely needs a buff....

Look, if you want siege to be effect you have to use it properly, shooting one random shot into the middle of 30 people isn't going to kill anyone... find a friend... time some trebuchet shots... watch the AP flow, if you don't have anyone to coordinate with, focus on the faster firing catapults, you can run 3 at a time and get them to hit within like 1 second of each other... Just as groups coordinate with their heals and purges and such, others can coordinate their siege, don't be lazy, stop asking for one shot mechanics.

Coleldfire and cold stone those aren't the problem. It's the ones that you buy with a AP that are underpowered. I ain't asking for one shot mechanics, if u took some time reading the discussion and deploy some common sense without adding your two cents. You would notice I ain't looking for mechanics that only require a train monkey to complete. Sieges will continue to discrease in power as more CP is added to the game.

vortexman11

Soundwave wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Got hit for a 17.4k Cold Stone treb the other day, definitely needs a buff....

Look, if you want siege to be effect you have to use it properly, shooting one random shot into the middle of 30 people isn't going to kill anyone... find a friend... time some trebuchet shots... watch the AP flow, if you don't have anyone to coordinate with, focus on the faster firing catapults, you can run 3 at a time and get them to hit within like 1 second of each other... Just as groups coordinate with their heals and purges and such, others can coordinate their siege, don't be lazy, stop asking for one shot mechanics.

Coleldfire and cold stone those aren't the problem. It's the ones that you buy with a AP that are underpowered. I ain't asking for one shot mechanics, if u took some time reading the discussion and deploy some common sense without adding your two cents. You would notice I ain't looking for mechanics that only require a train monkey to complete. Sieges will continue to discrease in power as more CP is added to the game.

I read your original post, if you read my response which wasn't directed at anyone in particular I simply said that when used correctly siege is still incredibly effective. The fact that siege may be mitigated by CPs is a different issue entirely which should be changed rather than siege being buffed in any way, a while back siege was changed to not be mitigated by your armour value on the basis that it should effect everyone equally, if its being mitigated and/or buffed by CPs then I'd consider this a bug.

Magus

Manoekin wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

It isn't just in CP Campaigns that this an issue. I was in Azura the other day using cold fire and the only time I was able to kill someone with it was when I could hit them at least 3 times. When your in a NO CP Campaign and they can mitigate that much siege damage there's a problem..... @ZOS_BrianWheeler siege weapons need to be buffed, no one should be able to survive 2 or more hits from a siege weapon regardless of what it is or what sets they have. It's time to bring back death for standing in stupid.....

And what makes you think point-and-click on cooldown is any more intelligent than standing in a red circle (especially when a lot of red circles don't even show up)? Should you take damage while operating siege, because it's a brainless act? At some point you have to realize you leveled that character for a reason and have to know how to play it. Crutches aren't there to do the killing for you.

I got a great idea. Since people like procs so much. There should be like a 1% chance on firing siege for the siege to misfire and blow up on yourself.

Valencer

Siege is ridiculously powerful right now...

Dyride

Interesting that people who are actually going out and taking keeps understand how siege is fine, while the counter siege group seems to be split between This is Easy mode and Buff plz.

Mojmir

everyone wear infernal guardian

Soundwave

Valencer wrote: »

Siege is ridiculously powerful right now...

Coldfire, cold stone, and oil yes they t strong. But your statement if only half true. While siege might be powerful for the right person or group, doesn't mean it's powerful for everyone.

I've notice a decrease in power against 502 & up with the last two patches, while it might be very small percentage. Although over time it will become a bigger problem.

Valencer

Siege has never been stronger than it is now and any organised group in Cyrodiil has to stay highly mobile or they get sieged to death in no time. Purge got nerfed and that used to be a hard counter to incoming siege damage.

I'm not sure what youre expecting siege to do, honestly. A decently sized group with healers should easily wipe to 1 guy manning a fire ballista?

rfennell_ESO

I love when I use a cold fire and I see someone take 25 damage.

I sometimes start to think about the math to make it possible and then have to pause and say "game is full of cheaters".

Soundwave

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I love when I use a cold fire and I see someone take 25 damage.

I sometimes start to think about the math to make it possible and then have to pause and say "game is full of cheaters".

It's not that game is full of cheaters, it's that people find everything that is OP and abuses it. That's why sets that work extremely well in Pve gets nerf because of PvP. Then things get imbalance through out the game, and devs get screamed at on the forums by players demanding to fix the problems. It's like a double blade sword, no matter what u; nothing ever seems to work in their favor.

@Valencer I don't except to wipe out a group by 1 manning siege. I except to do a decent amount of damage while defending a keep without it being utterly pointless to use siege in the first place. While it might easier for some to jump down and fight. Other don't have that ability and had to rely on a siege.

rfennell_ESO

Soundwave wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I love when I use a cold fire and I see someone take 25 damage.

I sometimes start to think about the math to make it possible and then have to pause and say "game is full of cheaters".

It's not that game is full of cheaters, it's that people find everything that is OP and abuses it. That's why sets that work extremely well in Pve gets nerf because of PvP. Then things get imbalance through out the game, and devs get screamed at on the forums by players demanding to fix the problems. It's like a double blade sword, no matter what u; nothing ever seems to work in their favor.

@Valencer I don't except to wipe out a group by 1 manning siege. I except to do a decent amount of damage while defending a keep without it being utterly pointless to use siege in the first place. While it might easier for some to jump down and fight. Other don't have that ability and had to rely on a siege.

Eh I don't see how you get to 25 damage from cold fire ballista siege by any set no matter how op it is lol.

zyk

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Eh I don't see how you get to 25 damage from cold fire ballista siege by any set no matter how op it is lol.

Many combat logs do not report the portion of an attack that was absorbed by damage shields.

Soundwave

So you're saying someone with an OP shield can take an oil bath, and why is that healthy for pvp.

zyk

Soundwave wrote: »

So you're saying someone with an OP shield can take an oil bath, and why is that healthy for pvp.

Nope. I haven't expressed an opinion about that. I only intended to convey that sometimes the damage done by an attack can appear less than it was if the combat log does not display how much of it was absorbed by a damage shield.

I don't have an opinion about 2.6 siege because I've only PVP'd for a few hours in 2.6 and it was total [SNIP]. Siege is the least of my concerns.

[SNIP]

(edited by mod for bashing wrobel)

Magus

I still want a proc chance for siege to explode and damage the left click hero.

Kartalin

Need the lol button back for OP, but totally like the idea of small chance of siege misfire