A thought on a solution to Proc Based Builds

Xsorus

What if Procs on armor pieces had Charges, and by that say for example Viper...what if it had 5 Charges...and those only recharged when you existed from combat for say 10 seconds....

This would make the Counter to Proc Based builds being basically surviving till their damage dries up.

GreenSoup2HoT

Id rather the damage normalized. All proc sets are 25% or more to powerful.

Satiar

Procs need to not proc other procs, for starters.

Esgameplaya1

This game is reminding me of Everquest2 when outrageous proc gear acquired from delves and raid zones negatively affected pvp. The Sony devs fixed/nerfed those unbalanced proc sets rather quickly for pvp. Also they could make them work as intended in pve, and nerf them for pvp. I'm quessing the coding in this game wont allow that to work!!

Sandman929

Armor procs should proc damage potential, small windows of time with buffs that the wearer has to capitalize on...otherwise it's your armor killing things, not you.

RadioheadSh0t

I have a solution: Remove them. Then maybe, just maybe, there will be some semblance of skill and balance.

Magus

Internal Cool Down on procs. Only one proc per second. No more double gear set procs proccing each other the same second.

bikerangelo

How many procs could a proud prick proc if a proud prick could proc proc's?

If anyone needs any new stam character names, here's a few: Peter Viper Proc'd, Dwayne the Proc Johnson, Proc Blocked, Proc *** get hit, Stop Proc and Roll.

If you'd like a personalized pun proc name, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

frozywozy

Magus wrote: »

Internal Cool Down on procs. Only one proc per second. No more double gear set procs proccing each other the same second.

global cooldown for all damaging procs. only one proc per 4seconds.

arkansas_ESO

This change would basically force people to build either as proc builds or pure tanks. Proc sets need a redesign, or at the very least a global cooldown that's a few seconds long.

Also, can we seriously look at Tremorscale again? How did a 50% proc chance on a 4 second cooldown on an ability (Puncture) that most S&B stam builds in PVP spam regularly get past internal testing? Does ZOS not know that everybody using S&B uses it for the light attack+ransack+bash weave?

Lexxypwns

Procs need conditions other than Physical damage, melee damage, etc. Skoria is a good example since the only class that doesn't add anything to their build to run it is magplar. It has a low proc chance which is why it requires multiple skills in tandem to make it work to the fullest extent. If the same were true for other proc sets, where you have to sacrifice valuable skill slots to make the proc effective it adds consequence to building for proc based burst. As it stands now, I don't need to slot any special skills on a stamplar to run viper+veli+widowmaker.

Another example of a proc based set that's balanced is kena, you have to build extra sustain into your build to be able to operate it effectively, however it offers you a controlled burst window where you can crush people. You're forced to spec more sustain and play skillfully to make use of this proc effectively.

I mean, ZoS knows how to balance these sets, they just seem to have stopped bothering.

Sandman929

bikerangelo wrote: »

How many procs could a proud prick proc if a proud prick could proc proc's?

If anyone needs any new stam character names, here's a few: Peter Viper Proc'd, Dwayne the Proc Johnson, Proc Blocked, Proc *** get hit, Stop Proc and Roll.

If you'd like a personalized pun proc name, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

No no no, we're supposed to pretend it's skill that makes them great. They just wear the proc sets for the articles.

Magus

frozywozy wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Internal Cool Down on procs. Only one proc per second. No more double gear set procs proccing each other the same second.

global cooldown for all damaging procs. only one proc per 4seconds.

I think 4 would be excessive.

With a 1 sec cooldown would look like this.

Ransack proc viper. Then ransack proc tremorscale on next attack.

vs

Ransack proc viper, tremorscale instantly all at once.

First scenario gives you a chance to recover. Though those aren't the worst offenders. Widowmaker is.

Lexxypwns

Sandman929 wrote: »

bikerangelo wrote: »

How many procs could a proud prick proc if a proud prick could proc proc's?

If anyone needs any new stam character names, here's a few: Peter Viper Proc'd, Dwayne the Proc Johnson, Proc Blocked, Proc *** get hit, Stop Proc and Roll.

If you'd like a personalized pun proc name, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

No no no, we're supposed to pretend it's skill that makes them great. They just wear the proc sets for the articles.

"I could totally wreck you without these, I just like the sweet animations they make, it enhances my immersion"

Magus

Tremorscale damage is like 2-6k depending on the target and whether it crits. If crit on a light armor with no impen, it's 6k. If no crit on a heavy armor with impen, it's 2k. Hardly scary there.

Lexxypwns

Magus wrote: »

Tremorscale damage is like 2-6k depending on the target and whether it crits. If crit on a light armor with no impen, it's 6k. If no crit on a heavy armor with impen, it's 2k. Hardly scary there.

call it 2k plus 4k viper plus 9k LA-ransack-bash, that's 15k instant damage and if it doesn't all come out right on crits you just wait 4 seconds. At that point its reverb-db-GG(and the funny thing is, after the DB you can proc both viper and tremor again for more lolz)

edit: Oh and this is all on a build that can practically permablock and has 25k resists

Magus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Tremorscale damage is like 2-6k depending on the target and whether it crits. If crit on a light armor with no impen, it's 6k. If no crit on a heavy armor with impen, it's 2k. Hardly scary there.

call it 2k crit plus 4k viper plus 9k LA-ransack-bash, that's 15k instant damage and if it doesn't all come out right on crits you just wait 4 seconds. At that point its reverb-db-GG(and the funny thing is, after the DB you can proc both viper and tremor again for more lolz)

Oh yeah, I agree it's strong. Cooldown would make it either 13k or 11k instant damage with that math though. Most people running around with 25k health, so roughly half your life gone in one second.

Nightblade can take you from 25k to 0 in one second too with their combo if you are caught off guard. Granted they are usually a little more squishy if you catch them.

Damage is crazy in the game for sure, but 6k DPS, with a perfect double proc that you can't control, in your example because of the proc meta is really the thing making it crazy? Velidreth and widowmaker does way more damage if you get the perfect proc but it does happen less frequently than viper/tremorscale.

Not to mention, you can always block, heal, or damage shield, or CC the other person. But yeah, it's strong. So are many other things in the game though.

GreenSoup2HoT

Let Viper only proc on heavy attacks.
Let Tremorscale not proc on players at all and be strickly a pve set.

Lexxypwns

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Let Viper only proc on heavy attacks.
Let Tremorscale not proc on players at all and be strickly a pve set.

Remove its damage entirely and make it have some pvp/pve tank utility, some sort of aoe debuff and a snare

Minalan

1. One damage proc resets the cooldown on all of them. So if viper goes off, both viper and velidreth go on internal CD. Then they both roll on every direct damage attack until one activates again.

2. Proc damage cannot activate on ravage health poison ticks, only direct damage abilities.

3. Proc damage cannot trigger from ranged damage or ranged DOT ticks. Sorry bow users, you'all have to close.

4. The cooldown on Selene and Tremorscale are kind of ridiculous at four seconds with any more than an 8% proc rate. They're better than any five piece sets, there's no reason not to use one. Nerf that to the same rate as Skoria or double the CD.

I'd leave the damage mostly the same, and adjust the cooldowns and proc rates.

Wreuntzylla

Sandman929 wrote: »

bikerangelo wrote: »

How many procs could a proud prick proc if a proud prick could proc proc's?

If anyone needs any new stam character names, here's a few: Peter Viper Proc'd, Dwayne the Proc Johnson, Proc Blocked, Proc *** get hit, Stop Proc and Roll.

If you'd like a personalized pun proc name, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

No no no, we're supposed to pretend it's skill that makes them great. They just wear the proc sets for the articles.

Don't go getting the idea that that this game is primarily skill based and that armor procs somehow ruin that. It's been a long time since skill was a major factor in this game.

Sugaroverdose

Xsorus wrote: »

What if Procs on armor pieces had Charges, and by that say for example Viper...what if it had 5 Charges...and those only recharged when you existed from combat for say 10 seconds....

This would make the Counter to Proc Based builds being basically surviving till their damage dries up.

CP should not affect healing and damaging sets, set damage should sanely scale from stats.

CP should be reverted to =<1.6 state, responsible for this mess should be replaced by more skilled employee.

Xsorus

Another possible solution is simply increasing the hp the battle buff gives from 5k to 10k this would increase the chance of not getting one shotted all around.

Magus

Xsorus wrote: »

Another possible solution is simply increasing the hp the battle buff gives from 5k to 10k this would increase the chance of not getting one shotted all around.

Not bad, a minor change that has little affect on the game at all but adds a little buffer.

frozywozy

Update 12 choices for people not part of any group :

1) Zergplar beamer
2) Leet stam 1vXer multiprocer

I'm very excited to say the least!

manny254

Make viper a DoT over 4 seconds that totals it's current damage. Give it a 8 second cool down with this new effect, and prevent it from procing on other procs.

Give tremor scale a 10 second cool down to be more in line with velidreth.

Vaoh

PvP is based on burst damage. DoTs help, but burst gets you those tough kills on groups.

Still, I don't really see proc sets in general as an issue. They are cool and fun to use.

It's the fact that most of these proc sets are so powerful that the burst they provide within their given timeframe makes them viable for PvE DPS setups that is totally messed up.

They are far too powerful, and sets which can reliably proc (Viper's Sting, Tremorscale) both deal high damage and can stack with no penalty. Together you have a new meta than further promotes Stamina and the present PvP imbalances.

I would not even be mad if ZOS deactivated the 5-piece set bonuses on all of the imbalanced and OP proc sets, along with other imbalanced clearly imbalanced sets like Black Rose, until they can be reworked either value-wise or function-wise.

PvP is a disgrace to ESO atm. I know ZOS has said that the Q1 2017 patch will be about player housing and balancing stuff but who knows if that'll actually happen.

Eirella

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

I have a solution: Remove them. Then maybe, just maybe, there will be some semblance of skill and balance.

^This.
Although, of course, this will never happen.

Hektik_V

Essiaga

Xsorus wrote: »

What if Procs on armor pieces had Charges, and by that say for example Viper...what if it had 5 Charges...and those only recharged when you existed from combat for say 10 seconds....

This would make the Counter to Proc Based builds being basically surviving till their damage dries up.

or they could just make procs like CF or like synergies and require player to hit a button to proc them. That would require the player actually earn their damage, rather then getting it for doing the obvious ... doing or receiving damage.

Sets like alchemist and Skirmisher at least require the player take action. Viper, etc come to easy and are too powerful.

Valencer

Could start with making them not scale up with CP and making them uncrittable.

Right now any fight vs a person stacking proc sets comes down to pure luck. If all their procs fire at the same time AND all crit, youre basically done for.

Even better would be just redesigning them so they do something else entirely, but that's unlikely to ever happen...