Should dps be class agnostic? stamina/magicka independent?

Vorcil

There's currently a huge disparity between the classes and resources orientation (stamina vs magicka ) in terms of potential when it comes to damage, healing and tanking;

Vorcil

My own opinion is that All classes should be able to hit '50k' dps, with the lesser resource orientation being able to fulfil some other role:

I.e.,
Stamina NB - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Magicka NB - Low dps, but should be able to compete with templar / sorc healing (needs an update)

Magicka SORC - High dps, high dificulty healing
Stamina SORC - Low dps, but should be able to tank / have extreme survivability at a loss to dps (needs an update)

Magicka DK - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Stamina DK - Good tanking, high difficulty dps

Stamina TEMP - Good Tanking, high difficulty dps
Magicka TEMP - Good Healing, high difficulty dps

That's my own perspective on class roles anyway;

Shadesofkin

A very specific build, which most players don't have is capable of that type of DPS. I'm not really worried about it.

Mic1007

DPS should not be the same across the board; however, each playstyle should have a critical adavantage so that no one gets cut out of his or her piece of the pie. There has to be a reason to play a certain way - for example, Magicka DPS - even though you might get higher numbers playing another way.

Vorcil

Mic1007 wrote: »

DPS should not be the same across the board; however, each playstyle should have a critical adavantage so that no one gets cut out of his or her piece of the pie. There has to be a reason to play a certain way - for example, Magicka DPS - even though you might get higher numbers playing another way.

If you play a DPS, why would you choose Magicka if Stamina were to give you 10-20k more DPS? That's the point isn't it? When grouping for PVE content, groups do not care if you have a 'critical' reason; they only want your dps, they don't care if you off heal, or are ranged.

In PvP of course Magicka has it's advantages, but the loss at not being able to breakfree constantly / have extreme survivability makes redundant the gimmics that come with Magicka.

Survivability & Damage > Magicka gimicks (bombblades for example)

Knootewoot

Vorcil wrote: »

My own opinion is that All classes should be able to hit '50k' dps, with the lesser resource orientation being able to fulfil some other role:

I.e.,
Stamina NB - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Magicka NB - Low dps, but should be able to compete with templar / sorc healing (needs an update)

Magicka SORC - High dps, high dificulty healing
Stamina SORC - Low dps, but should be able to tank / have extreme survivability at a loss to dps (needs an update)

Magicka DK - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Stamina DK - Good tanking, high difficulty dps

Stamina TEMP - Good Tanking, high difficulty dps
Magicka TEMP - Good Healing, high difficulty dps

That's my own perspective on class roles anyway;

I am a magcika NB and I really do not want to be a healer. I want to DPS using my magicka morph class skills.

TheDarkRuler

Each class having the same potential DPS is pretty impossible.
There is always difference because of Class Passives and skills.
A nightblade is very great for burst DPS but lacks sustain DPS.
A dragon knight lacks burst but once the battle has taken some time the tons of Over Time-effects will make the DPS insanely high.

However I agree each class must have a valid DPS in total to compete.

RebornV3x

The one problem I have with this game Is this play how you want type mentality either one of two things needs to happen to ESO

1. have no classes and have all passives and skills open to all character this would help close the gap and play into the play how you want mentality the devs have
2. Each class having a specific focus for example Templar are healers they should do ok dps but they shouldn't be to tanky either Dks should be the tank class little to no self heals and dps but can use heavy armor and buffs to tank next Nightblades should be the melee Dps class and Sorcs should be the ranged dps class and should be more of a glass cannon with little to no self heals or wards
The current state of the game as far as balence goes is a mess you have the templar that can out heal, out tank and still put out amazing Dps with little to problem.

Doctordarkspawn

The problem is Deeper than DPS and it's the fact there is no definition of the roles as they currently stand.

Damage: Deal damage to foes that pose a threat.

Healer: Shield and protect allies that take damage.

Tank: Absorb damage intended for other team mates

That is all the definition we have. Stamina outperforming magicka is a symptom of the designers not even knowing what Magicka DPS's uses are. Magicka/Stamina DPS are lables the -playerbase- gave these styles, not the designers. Until we get passive lines or fighting styles or what have you to base the role around, it's going to continue being aimless.

TLDR. In order to say what a roll should be able to do, you must first define what the roll is, and ZOS still needs to do that with skill lines, and specs. Otherwise, we cannot even begin to adress the problem with more than bandaid solutions. The desparity needs to be fixed, but it wont be fixed, until roles are more than vauge guidelines.

Vorcil

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

My own opinion is that All classes should be able to hit '50k' dps, with the lesser resource orientation being able to fulfil some other role:

I.e.,
Stamina NB - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Magicka NB - Low dps, but should be able to compete with templar / sorc healing (needs an update)

Magicka SORC - High dps, high dificulty healing
Stamina SORC - Low dps, but should be able to tank / have extreme survivability at a loss to dps (needs an update)

Magicka DK - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Stamina DK - Good tanking, high difficulty dps

Stamina TEMP - Good Tanking, high difficulty dps
Magicka TEMP - Good Healing, high difficulty dps

That's my own perspective on class roles anyway;

I am a magcika NB and I really do not want to be a healer. I want to DPS using my magicka morph class skills.

But you can't, magblade dps isn't on par with stamblade... by 20k dps;

Half the magick dps skills available also heal...

Siphoneer

Vorcil wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

My own opinion is that All classes should be able to hit '50k' dps, with the lesser resource orientation being able to fulfil some other role:

I.e.,
Stamina NB - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Magicka NB - Low dps, but should be able to compete with templar / sorc healing (needs an update)

Magicka SORC - High dps, high dificulty healing
Stamina SORC - Low dps, but should be able to tank / have extreme survivability at a loss to dps (needs an update)

Magicka DK - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Stamina DK - Good tanking, high difficulty dps

Stamina TEMP - Good Tanking, high difficulty dps
Magicka TEMP - Good Healing, high difficulty dps

That's my own perspective on class roles anyway;

I am a magcika NB and I really do not want to be a healer. I want to DPS using my magicka morph class skills.

But you can't, magblade dps isn't on par with stamblade... by 20k dps;

Half the magick dps skills available also heal...

Yes he/she can, im a magicka nightblade and my DPS is decent, the problem is the light armor passives and the fact Zos caters to pvp players more

s7732425ub17_ESO

Stam DPS will outperform mag DPS in easy-mode Trials where you literally just stand next to the boss and don't move the entire time. If you want to do anything more difficult that requires self-healing, shielding, group utility, or ranged, stam starts to equal out.

ZOS WANTS IT THIS WAY!

They literally said that stam DPS is higher because you have to be in melee range, and being in melee range is much more dangerous than ranged most of the time.

So the game is balanced like they want it. And all DPS classes, stam or mag, have enough DPS to do *all* endgame content (yes, Vet Maw included).

Oreyn_Bearclaw

You can count the number of people pulling actual 50k DPS parses on legitimate fights (VMOL bosses, etc), on a hand or two.

Stam certainly has more potential for raw DPS, but it is VMA weapon (recently nerfed) and group buff dependent. It also requires you to be at melee range, and most modern fights do not allow you to stack 8 people on the boss.

There are in fact magic builds out there getting close to 50k on all the VMOL bosses, and even Manti (pure single target). To suggest there is a 20k DPS gap is simply false and makes any subsequent statements totally invalid. You cant compare your average magic DPS numbers with Alcasts stam numbers and call it a good comparison. He is in one of the best raid groups in the world with every debuff imaginable.

Magic is just fine in PVE. There is a reason that most VMOL groups have 1-2 stam DPS and 6 -7 magic. Magic is better in a lot of the new trials. For the lessor 4 man stuff, who cares. Whether you pull 40 or 50k on any dungeon boss, they are still going to die before any mechanics happen.

I dont like your poll results so I didnt vote. My response would be, Melee should pull slightly better DPS than range, which currently is true for the most part.


The 2 classes that frankly need slight buffs from a DPS standpoint are Magic DK and Magic NB. DK is forced to go melee, so whip should probably hit a little harder. NBs are basically a crappy version of sorc, so they should be brought up to scratch with them. The best way would be to rework Merciless resolve. The proc needs to be double cast, so its barely worth it, and the buff is redundant with combat prayer, so any healer that knows his hand from his ass will already be giving you the same thing.

As for sustain, I would like to see a small buff to magic sustain, but its not game breaking. A good healer running worm and elemental drain, solves the issue.

thankyourat

Siphoneer wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

My own opinion is that All classes should be able to hit '50k' dps, with the lesser resource orientation being able to fulfil some other role:

I.e.,
Stamina NB - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Magicka NB - Low dps, but should be able to compete with templar / sorc healing (needs an update)

Magicka SORC - High dps, high dificulty healing
Stamina SORC - Low dps, but should be able to tank / have extreme survivability at a loss to dps (needs an update)

Magicka DK - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Stamina DK - Good tanking, high difficulty dps

Stamina TEMP - Good Tanking, high difficulty dps
Magicka TEMP - Good Healing, high difficulty dps

That's my own perspective on class roles anyway;

I am a magcika NB and I really do not want to be a healer. I want to DPS using my magicka morph class skills.

But you can't, magblade dps isn't on par with stamblade... by 20k dps;

Half the magick dps skills available also heal...

Yes he/she can, im a magicka nightblade and my DPS is decent, the problem is the light armor passives and the fact Zos caters to pvp players more

What do PvP players have to do with light armor and bad passives. Magicka PVPers are complaining about this as well

Vorcil

thankyourat wrote: »

Siphoneer wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

My own opinion is that All classes should be able to hit '50k' dps, with the lesser resource orientation being able to fulfil some other role:

I.e.,
Stamina NB - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Magicka NB - Low dps, but should be able to compete with templar / sorc healing (needs an update)

Magicka SORC - High dps, high dificulty healing
Stamina SORC - Low dps, but should be able to tank / have extreme survivability at a loss to dps (needs an update)

Magicka DK - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Stamina DK - Good tanking, high difficulty dps

Stamina TEMP - Good Tanking, high difficulty dps
Magicka TEMP - Good Healing, high difficulty dps

That's my own perspective on class roles anyway;

I am a magcika NB and I really do not want to be a healer. I want to DPS using my magicka morph class skills.

But you can't, magblade dps isn't on par with stamblade... by 20k dps;

Half the magick dps skills available also heal...

Yes he/she can, im a magicka nightblade and my DPS is decent, the problem is the light armor passives and the fact Zos caters to pvp players more

What do PvP players have to do with light armor and bad passives. Magicka PVPers are complaining about this as well

My main is a magblade, on my stamblade I can hit 40k dps with ease (without my gear being completed); fully kitted out on my magblade bloodspawn, with Maelstrom staff, 5 piece julianos, and kena I can only do 28k...

Bam_Bam

Knootewoot wrote: »

I am a magcika NB and I really do not want to be a healer. I want to DPS using my magicka morph class skills.

Well said!

Foxic

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can count the number of people pulling actual 50k DPS parses on legitimate fights (VMOL bosses, etc), on a hand or two.

Stam certainly has more potential for raw DPS, but it is VMA weapon (recently nerfed) and group buff dependent. It also requires you to be at melee range, and most modern fights do not allow you to stack 8 people on the boss.

There are in fact magic builds out there getting close to 50k on all the VMOL bosses, and even Manti (pure single target). To suggest there is a 20k DPS gap is simply false and makes any subsequent statements totally invalid. You cant compare your average magic DPS numbers with Alcasts stam numbers and call it a good comparison. He is in one of the best raid groups in the world with every debuff imaginable.

Magic is just fine in PVE. There is a reason that most VMOL groups have 1-2 stam DPS and 6 -7 magic. Magic is better in a lot of the new trials. For the lessor 4 man stuff, who cares. Whether you pull 40 or 50k on any dungeon boss, they are still going to die before any mechanics happen.

I dont like your poll results so I didnt vote. My response would be, Melee should pull slightly better DPS than range, which currently is true for the most part.


The 2 classes that frankly need slight buffs from a DPS standpoint are Magic DK and Magic NB. DK is forced to go melee, so whip should probably hit a little harder. NBs are basically a crappy version of sorc, so they should be brought up to scratch with them. The best way would be to rework Merciless resolve. The proc needs to be double cast, so its barely worth it, and the buff is redundant with combat prayer, so any healer that knows his hand from his ass will already be giving you the same thing.

As for sustain, I would like to see a small buff to magic sustain, but its not game breaking. A good healer running worm and elemental drain, solves the issue.

Not only maw. All of the trial top scores are teams of almost all magicka.

There are tweaks I would like to make to both sides. But it's easy to see the disconnect between forum warriors and actual top pve players, when all you hear on the forums is "stam op, magicka sucks" despite all of the top scoring teams running magicka dps.

Izaki

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can count the number of people pulling actual 50k DPS parses on legitimate fights (VMOL bosses, etc), on a hand or two.

Stam certainly has more potential for raw DPS, but it is VMA weapon (recently nerfed) and group buff dependent. It also requires you to be at melee range, and most modern fights do not allow you to stack 8 people on the boss.

There are in fact magic builds out there getting close to 50k on all the VMOL bosses, and even Manti (pure single target). To suggest there is a 20k DPS gap is simply false and makes any subsequent statements totally invalid. You cant compare your average magic DPS numbers with Alcasts stam numbers and call it a good comparison. He is in one of the best raid groups in the world with every debuff imaginable.

Magic is just fine in PVE. There is a reason that most VMOL groups have 1-2 stam DPS and 6 -7 magic. Magic is better in a lot of the new trials. For the lessor 4 man stuff, who cares. Whether you pull 40 or 50k on any dungeon boss, they are still going to die before any mechanics happen.

I dont like your poll results so I didnt vote. My response would be, Melee should pull slightly better DPS than range, which currently is true for the most part.


The 2 classes that frankly need slight buffs from a DPS standpoint are Magic DK and Magic NB. DK is forced to go melee, so whip should probably hit a little harder. NBs are basically a crappy version of sorc, so they should be brought up to scratch with them. The best way would be to rework Merciless resolve. The proc needs to be double cast, so its barely worth it, and the buff is redundant with combat prayer, so any healer that knows his hand from his ass will already be giving you the same thing.

As for sustain, I would like to see a small buff to magic sustain, but its not game breaking. A good healer running worm and elemental drain, solves the issue.

Not only maw. All of the trial top scores are teams of almost all magicka.

There are tweaks I would like to make to both sides. But it's easy to see the disconnect between forum warriors and actual top pve players, when all you hear on the forums is "stam op, magicka sucks" despite all of the top scoring teams running magicka dps.

Yeah that's pretty much it.

Izaki

Vorcil wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Siphoneer wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

My own opinion is that All classes should be able to hit '50k' dps, with the lesser resource orientation being able to fulfil some other role:

I.e.,
Stamina NB - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Magicka NB - Low dps, but should be able to compete with templar / sorc healing (needs an update)

Magicka SORC - High dps, high dificulty healing
Stamina SORC - Low dps, but should be able to tank / have extreme survivability at a loss to dps (needs an update)

Magicka DK - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Stamina DK - Good tanking, high difficulty dps

Stamina TEMP - Good Tanking, high difficulty dps
Magicka TEMP - Good Healing, high difficulty dps

That's my own perspective on class roles anyway;

I am a magcika NB and I really do not want to be a healer. I want to DPS using my magicka morph class skills.

But you can't, magblade dps isn't on par with stamblade... by 20k dps;

Half the magick dps skills available also heal...

Yes he/she can, im a magicka nightblade and my DPS is decent, the problem is the light armor passives and the fact Zos caters to pvp players more

What do PvP players have to do with light armor and bad passives. Magicka PVPers are complaining about this as well

My main is a magblade, on my stamblade I can hit 40k dps with ease (without my gear being completed); fully kitted out on my magblade bloodspawn, with Maelstrom staff, 5 piece julianos, and kena I can only do 28k...

Well... Learn your rotation. Lose Julianos and get TBS. Learn your rotation. Practice.

Vorcil

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can count the number of people pulling actual 50k DPS parses on legitimate fights (VMOL bosses, etc), on a hand or two.

Stam certainly has more potential for raw DPS, but it is VMA weapon (recently nerfed) and group buff dependent. It also requires you to be at melee range, and most modern fights do not allow you to stack 8 people on the boss.

There are in fact magic builds out there getting close to 50k on all the VMOL bosses, and even Manti (pure single target). To suggest there is a 20k DPS gap is simply false and makes any subsequent statements totally invalid. You cant compare your average magic DPS numbers with Alcasts stam numbers and call it a good comparison. He is in one of the best raid groups in the world with every debuff imaginable.

Magic is just fine in PVE. There is a reason that most VMOL groups have 1-2 stam DPS and 6 -7 magic. Magic is better in a lot of the new trials. For the lessor 4 man stuff, who cares. Whether you pull 40 or 50k on any dungeon boss, they are still going to die before any mechanics happen.

I dont like your poll results so I didnt vote. My response would be, Melee should pull slightly better DPS than range, which currently is true for the most part.


The 2 classes that frankly need slight buffs from a DPS standpoint are Magic DK and Magic NB. DK is forced to go melee, so whip should probably hit a little harder. NBs are basically a crappy version of sorc, so they should be brought up to scratch with them. The best way would be to rework Merciless resolve. The proc needs to be double cast, so its barely worth it, and the buff is redundant with combat prayer, so any healer that knows his hand from his ass will already be giving you the same thing.

As for sustain, I would like to see a small buff to magic sustain, but its not game breaking. A good healer running worm and elemental drain, solves the issue.

Not only maw. All of the trial top scores are teams of almost all magicka.

There are tweaks I would like to make to both sides. But it's easy to see the disconnect between forum warriors and actual top pve players, when all you hear on the forums is "stam op, magicka sucks" despite all of the top scoring teams running magicka dps.

Yeah that's pretty much it.

Magicka DPS in top PVE guilds for sure, but I can guarantee there are no magblades in those groups.

Recremen

An Elder Scrolls game where class choice actually affects your viability in different playstyles is missing the point of the Elder Scrolls series.

Vorcil

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Siphoneer wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

My own opinion is that All classes should be able to hit '50k' dps, with the lesser resource orientation being able to fulfil some other role:

I.e.,
Stamina NB - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Magicka NB - Low dps, but should be able to compete with templar / sorc healing (needs an update)

Magicka SORC - High dps, high dificulty healing
Stamina SORC - Low dps, but should be able to tank / have extreme survivability at a loss to dps (needs an update)

Magicka DK - High dps, high difficulty tanking
Stamina DK - Good tanking, high difficulty dps

Stamina TEMP - Good Tanking, high difficulty dps
Magicka TEMP - Good Healing, high difficulty dps

That's my own perspective on class roles anyway;

I am a magcika NB and I really do not want to be a healer. I want to DPS using my magicka morph class skills.

But you can't, magblade dps isn't on par with stamblade... by 20k dps;

Half the magick dps skills available also heal...

Yes he/she can, im a magicka nightblade and my DPS is decent, the problem is the light armor passives and the fact Zos caters to pvp players more

What do PvP players have to do with light armor and bad passives. Magicka PVPers are complaining about this as well

My main is a magblade, on my stamblade I can hit 40k dps with ease (without my gear being completed); fully kitted out on my magblade bloodspawn, with Maelstrom staff, 5 piece julianos, and kena I can only do 28k...

Well... Learn your rotation. Lose Julianos and get TBS. Learn your rotation. Practice.

I have TBS, I know my rotation; the point is that there are so many facets involved in me pulling 32k dps on my magblade (yes I can do it but it's not worth the effort) when comparatively, I don't even have to think on my stamblade and still pull more than having a perfect rotation in a perfect group.

If a sorc can just over load light attack and pull 50k dps where a magblade has to do 10 things simutaneously and have every group buff going to even pull 35k it makes being a magblade extremely undesirable, especially as groups don't take into account off heals, range or other utility skills that can be brought to the table.

Izaki

RebornV3x wrote: »

The one problem I have with this game Is this play how you want type mentality either one of two things needs to happen to ESO

1. have no classes and have all passives and skills open to all character this would help close the gap and play into the play how you want mentality the devs have
2. Each class having a specific focus for example Templar are healers they should do ok dps but they shouldn't be to tanky either Dks should be the tank class little to no self heals and dps but can use heavy armor and buffs to tank next Nightblades should be the melee Dps class and Sorcs should be the ranged dps class and should be more of a glass cannon with little to no self heals or wards
The current state of the game as far as balence goes is a mess you have the templar that can out heal, out tank and still put out amazing Dps with little to problem.

Hope that doesn't happen. Will be the most boring game ever

Asmael

Vorcil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can count the number of people pulling actual 50k DPS parses on legitimate fights (VMOL bosses, etc), on a hand or two.

Stam certainly has more potential for raw DPS, but it is VMA weapon (recently nerfed) and group buff dependent. It also requires you to be at melee range, and most modern fights do not allow you to stack 8 people on the boss.

There are in fact magic builds out there getting close to 50k on all the VMOL bosses, and even Manti (pure single target). To suggest there is a 20k DPS gap is simply false and makes any subsequent statements totally invalid. You cant compare your average magic DPS numbers with Alcasts stam numbers and call it a good comparison. He is in one of the best raid groups in the world with every debuff imaginable.

Magic is just fine in PVE. There is a reason that most VMOL groups have 1-2 stam DPS and 6 -7 magic. Magic is better in a lot of the new trials. For the lessor 4 man stuff, who cares. Whether you pull 40 or 50k on any dungeon boss, they are still going to die before any mechanics happen.

I dont like your poll results so I didnt vote. My response would be, Melee should pull slightly better DPS than range, which currently is true for the most part.


The 2 classes that frankly need slight buffs from a DPS standpoint are Magic DK and Magic NB. DK is forced to go melee, so whip should probably hit a little harder. NBs are basically a crappy version of sorc, so they should be brought up to scratch with them. The best way would be to rework Merciless resolve. The proc needs to be double cast, so its barely worth it, and the buff is redundant with combat prayer, so any healer that knows his hand from his ass will already be giving you the same thing.

As for sustain, I would like to see a small buff to magic sustain, but its not game breaking. A good healer running worm and elemental drain, solves the issue.

Not only maw. All of the trial top scores are teams of almost all magicka.

There are tweaks I would like to make to both sides. But it's easy to see the disconnect between forum warriors and actual top pve players, when all you hear on the forums is "stam op, magicka sucks" despite all of the top scoring teams running magicka dps.

Yeah that's pretty much it.

Magicka DPS in top PVE guilds for sure, but I can guarantee there are no magblades in those groups.

Shows how little you know about magicka then.

driosketch

Vorcil wrote: »

My own opinion is that All classes should be able to hit '50k' dps,

Bit of a tangent, but this irks me to no end when people rate dps with a simple number like it's some kind of achievable standard rating. What kind of dps? Burst, sustained, melee, range, single target, aoe, pve, pvp? Grouped buffed, solo, parsed through a dungeon run, or on a single boss? Are you taking the highest instance hit, taking an average over a span of time, or until the target is dead with the execute damage factored in?

Vorcil

Asmael wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can count the number of people pulling actual 50k DPS parses on legitimate fights (VMOL bosses, etc), on a hand or two.

Stam certainly has more potential for raw DPS, but it is VMA weapon (recently nerfed) and group buff dependent. It also requires you to be at melee range, and most modern fights do not allow you to stack 8 people on the boss.

There are in fact magic builds out there getting close to 50k on all the VMOL bosses, and even Manti (pure single target). To suggest there is a 20k DPS gap is simply false and makes any subsequent statements totally invalid. You cant compare your average magic DPS numbers with Alcasts stam numbers and call it a good comparison. He is in one of the best raid groups in the world with every debuff imaginable.

Magic is just fine in PVE. There is a reason that most VMOL groups have 1-2 stam DPS and 6 -7 magic. Magic is better in a lot of the new trials. For the lessor 4 man stuff, who cares. Whether you pull 40 or 50k on any dungeon boss, they are still going to die before any mechanics happen.

I dont like your poll results so I didnt vote. My response would be, Melee should pull slightly better DPS than range, which currently is true for the most part.


The 2 classes that frankly need slight buffs from a DPS standpoint are Magic DK and Magic NB. DK is forced to go melee, so whip should probably hit a little harder. NBs are basically a crappy version of sorc, so they should be brought up to scratch with them. The best way would be to rework Merciless resolve. The proc needs to be double cast, so its barely worth it, and the buff is redundant with combat prayer, so any healer that knows his hand from his ass will already be giving you the same thing.

As for sustain, I would like to see a small buff to magic sustain, but its not game breaking. A good healer running worm and elemental drain, solves the issue.

Not only maw. All of the trial top scores are teams of almost all magicka.

There are tweaks I would like to make to both sides. But it's easy to see the disconnect between forum warriors and actual top pve players, when all you hear on the forums is "stam op, magicka sucks" despite all of the top scoring teams running magicka dps.

Yeah that's pretty much it.

Magicka DPS in top PVE guilds for sure, but I can guarantee there are no magblades in those groups.

Shows how little you know about magicka then.

Sure Mantikora in a full group I can pull high DPS aswell (learn to read); I'm talking about bloodspawn (which is used as the dps check nowdays); with those same group buffs a sorc can pull 60k+

Post an image of you pulling that DPS on bloodspawn...

Amdar_Godkiller

It should constantly evolve towards the ideal balance, but expecting perfect balance is irrational.

At the same time closer range should have a positive effect on damage, bc logic. Magic builds who keep their distance therefore should be weakest.

Pvp has to be considered as well.

Foxic

Vorcil wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can count the number of people pulling actual 50k DPS parses on legitimate fights (VMOL bosses, etc), on a hand or two.

Stam certainly has more potential for raw DPS, but it is VMA weapon (recently nerfed) and group buff dependent. It also requires you to be at melee range, and most modern fights do not allow you to stack 8 people on the boss.

There are in fact magic builds out there getting close to 50k on all the VMOL bosses, and even Manti (pure single target). To suggest there is a 20k DPS gap is simply false and makes any subsequent statements totally invalid. You cant compare your average magic DPS numbers with Alcasts stam numbers and call it a good comparison. He is in one of the best raid groups in the world with every debuff imaginable.

Magic is just fine in PVE. There is a reason that most VMOL groups have 1-2 stam DPS and 6 -7 magic. Magic is better in a lot of the new trials. For the lessor 4 man stuff, who cares. Whether you pull 40 or 50k on any dungeon boss, they are still going to die before any mechanics happen.

I dont like your poll results so I didnt vote. My response would be, Melee should pull slightly better DPS than range, which currently is true for the most part.


The 2 classes that frankly need slight buffs from a DPS standpoint are Magic DK and Magic NB. DK is forced to go melee, so whip should probably hit a little harder. NBs are basically a crappy version of sorc, so they should be brought up to scratch with them. The best way would be to rework Merciless resolve. The proc needs to be double cast, so its barely worth it, and the buff is redundant with combat prayer, so any healer that knows his hand from his ass will already be giving you the same thing.

As for sustain, I would like to see a small buff to magic sustain, but its not game breaking. A good healer running worm and elemental drain, solves the issue.

Not only maw. All of the trial top scores are teams of almost all magicka.

There are tweaks I would like to make to both sides. But it's easy to see the disconnect between forum warriors and actual top pve players, when all you hear on the forums is "stam op, magicka sucks" despite all of the top scoring teams running magicka dps.

Yeah that's pretty much it.

Magicka DPS in top PVE guilds for sure, but I can guarantee there are no magblades in those groups.

Shows how little you know about magicka then.

Sure Mantikora in a full group I can pull high DPS aswell (learn to read); I'm talking about bloodspawn (which is used as the dps check nowdays); with those same group buffs a sorc can pull 60k+

Post an image of you pulling that DPS on bloodspawn...

only console guilds care about bloodspawn because they have no other way of testing dps. Bloodspawn parses are not a good way to determine raid dps, if it were then the only dps in trials would be stam. Which all of the top trial teams still running all magicka, tells you that is not the case

peniku8

Vorcil wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can count the number of people pulling actual 50k DPS parses on legitimate fights (VMOL bosses, etc), on a hand or two.

Stam certainly has more potential for raw DPS, but it is VMA weapon (recently nerfed) and group buff dependent. It also requires you to be at melee range, and most modern fights do not allow you to stack 8 people on the boss.

There are in fact magic builds out there getting close to 50k on all the VMOL bosses, and even Manti (pure single target). To suggest there is a 20k DPS gap is simply false and makes any subsequent statements totally invalid. You cant compare your average magic DPS numbers with Alcasts stam numbers and call it a good comparison. He is in one of the best raid groups in the world with every debuff imaginable.

Magic is just fine in PVE. There is a reason that most VMOL groups have 1-2 stam DPS and 6 -7 magic. Magic is better in a lot of the new trials. For the lessor 4 man stuff, who cares. Whether you pull 40 or 50k on any dungeon boss, they are still going to die before any mechanics happen.

I dont like your poll results so I didnt vote. My response would be, Melee should pull slightly better DPS than range, which currently is true for the most part.


The 2 classes that frankly need slight buffs from a DPS standpoint are Magic DK and Magic NB. DK is forced to go melee, so whip should probably hit a little harder. NBs are basically a crappy version of sorc, so they should be brought up to scratch with them. The best way would be to rework Merciless resolve. The proc needs to be double cast, so its barely worth it, and the buff is redundant with combat prayer, so any healer that knows his hand from his ass will already be giving you the same thing.

As for sustain, I would like to see a small buff to magic sustain, but its not game breaking. A good healer running worm and elemental drain, solves the issue.

Not only maw. All of the trial top scores are teams of almost all magicka.

There are tweaks I would like to make to both sides. But it's easy to see the disconnect between forum warriors and actual top pve players, when all you hear on the forums is "stam op, magicka sucks" despite all of the top scoring teams running magicka dps.

Yeah that's pretty much it.

Magicka DPS in top PVE guilds for sure, but I can guarantee there are no magblades in those groups.

Shows how little you know about magicka then.

Sure Mantikora in a full group I can pull high DPS aswell (learn to read); I'm talking about bloodspawn (which is used as the dps check nowdays); with those same group buffs a sorc can pull 60k+

Post an image of you pulling that DPS on bloodspawn...

What kind of PvE player would use a 10 seconds fight as dps test? I do 65k dps 10 seconds into a trial bossfight on my Magblade but that says absolutely nothing about my actual dps after 5 minutes Rakkhat fight or something actually relevant.