new magplar meta.

DRXHarbinger · September 2016

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

Cinbri · September 2016

Are you talking about PvE? Coz I don't see a single reason to wear any of sets you mentioned in PvP.

DRXHarbinger · September 2016

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you talking about PvE? Coz I don't see a single reason to wear any of sets you mentioned in PvP.

Why not both? I use Tbs in pvp all time on mine and my Sorc and slay pretty much everyone I come across. It doesn't have to be heavy to work.

Drdeath20 · September 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you talking about PvE? Coz I don't see a single reason to wear any of sets you mentioned in PvP.

Why not both? I use Tbs in pvp all time on mine and my Sorc and slay pretty much everyone I come across. It doesn't have to be heavy to work.

It all depends on how you like to play. For me TBS would not be optimal for pve or pvp.

DRXHarbinger · September 2016

Tbs is actually good in pvp. All the crit res everyone has helps you do that bit more damage.

Xrucible · September 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

IxSTALKERxI · October 2016

I don't even know what tbs is lol.

Xrucible · October 2016

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I don't even know what tbs is lol.

Twice Born Star

IxSTALKERxI · October 2016

Xrucible wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I don't even know what tbs is lol.

Twice Born Star

Bahaha oh yeah ofcourse it is. Kinda feel stupid now, shows how much I PVE. I was like sitting there trying to think of sets off the top of my head and the best I could come up with was 'the burning spellweave' haha. Forgot about twice born.

Mettaricana · October 2016

Whats spc?

Alucardo · October 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

Whats spc?

Spell Power Cure

Izaki · October 2016

Drdeath20 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you talking about PvE? Coz I don't see a single reason to wear any of sets you mentioned in PvP.

Why not both? I use Tbs in pvp all time on mine and my Sorc and slay pretty much everyone I come across. It doesn't have to be heavy to work.

It all depends on how you like to play. For me TBS would not be optimal for pve or pvp.

What do you mean TBS is not optimal in PvE? Its the best hands down without exception. In trials at least. For solo there are better sets. But what's solo PvE apart from vMA?

Izaki · October 2016

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

Drdeath20 · October 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you talking about PvE? Coz I don't see a single reason to wear any of sets you mentioned in PvP.

Why not both? I use Tbs in pvp all time on mine and my Sorc and slay pretty much everyone I come across. It doesn't have to be heavy to work.

It all depends on how you like to play. For me TBS would not be optimal for pve or pvp.

What do you mean TBS is not optimal in PvE? Its the best hands down without exception. In trials at least. For solo there are better sets. But what's solo PvE apart from vMA?

Because with most bosses releasing minions I like to use vd. My heals are strong enough to keep up without crits. VD helps me clear out mobs aswell as heal.

Drdeath20 · October 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

the best stamina builds are pulling 80k dps

DRXHarbinger · October 2016

Drdeath20 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you talking about PvE? Coz I don't see a single reason to wear any of sets you mentioned in PvP.

Why not both? I use Tbs in pvp all time on mine and my Sorc and slay pretty much everyone I come across. It doesn't have to be heavy to work.

It all depends on how you like to play. For me TBS would not be optimal for pve or pvp.

What do you mean TBS is not optimal in PvE? Its the best hands down without exception. In trials at least. For solo there are better sets. But what's solo PvE apart from vMA?

Because with most bosses releasing minions I like to use vd. My heals are strong enough to keep up without crits. VD helps me clear out mobs aswell as heal.

I hope you don't mean vicious death....that doesn't proc or even work on pve targets.

Drdeath20 · October 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you talking about PvE? Coz I don't see a single reason to wear any of sets you mentioned in PvP.

Why not both? I use Tbs in pvp all time on mine and my Sorc and slay pretty much everyone I come across. It doesn't have to be heavy to work.

It all depends on how you like to play. For me TBS would not be optimal for pve or pvp.

What do you mean TBS is not optimal in PvE? Its the best hands down without exception. In trials at least. For solo there are better sets. But what's solo PvE apart from vMA?

Because with most bosses releasing minions I like to use vd. My heals are strong enough to keep up without crits. VD helps me clear out mobs aswell as heal.

I hope you don't mean vicious death....that doesn't proc or even work on pve targets.

Well than I guess I'm dropping that set lol.

Mojmir · October 2016

I'm using 5 tbs, 3 aether(gold),3 necropotence.sustain isn't an issue but hardly meta I suppose.

Xrucible · October 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

It's bugged with % based scaling.. Sweeps and beam both are % scaling. For a magplar that bonus is kinda useless compared to other bonuses.

Destruent · October 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

SPC is usually bad for PvE-DPS bc your healers should use it. I'd probably go for TBS + grothdar on armorparts and then aether/moondancer/mothers sorrow on jewelry+DW.

Xrucible wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

It's bugged with % based scaling.. Sweeps and beam both are % scaling. For a magplar that bonus is kinda useless compared to other bonuses.

I hope this gets fixed...

Drdeath20 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

the best stamina builds are pulling 80k dps

Lol...show me 80k DPS on a trialboss and i belive it. Most good Stam-DPS do between 50k to 60k (maybe a bit above in perfect attempts on certain bosses) at best in trials.
But yeah...show me a dmg-recap and i believe it.

DRXHarbinger · October 2016

Am I right in thinking. With Tbs mothers sorrow your base damage is going to be around 2k. With about. ..75% crit. So war horn excluded / no minor slayer you'll be around only 2700 average output. That seems a little low in real world terms.

Destruent · October 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Am I right in thinking. With Tbs mothers sorrow your base damage is going to be around 2k. With about. ..75% crit. So war horn excluded / no minor slayer you'll be around only 2700 average output. That seems a little low in real world terms.

Doesn't really matter with a critdamage-modifier of 2x...2.3x (depending on warhorn-uptime).
Dunno if it's really worth using, but it's something worth to test. A crit/critdmg-setup also boosts grothdar by a lot, and even when playing solo and without this setup the damage is really high.

Izaki · October 2016

Drdeath20 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

the best stamina builds are pulling 80k dps

@Drdeath20 Link me a parse of someone doing 80k DPS on a single target. I won't believe it till I see it, with a full video and the parse at the end. Highest I've ever seen was 58k on a stamina DK.
I think you just wanted to come up with an insanely number to try to show that magicka builds are outclassed by stamina. It is not the case. Ask any of the people who run in competitive trial groups. Magicka have a slightly less DPS, but more survivability. Stamina has slightly more DPS, but its A LOT harder to stay alive. I play both as mains. Personal experience? Stamina is harder in every way, the only exception being magicka sorcerer. Stamina rotations with maelstrom weapons are very hard to master compared to NB or Templar.

Vicious Death doesn't work in PvE but DR X already said that... Which kinda makes me think even more that you just made the 80k up

But hey, just show me a parse!

Xrucible · October 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Am I right in thinking. With Tbs mothers sorrow your base damage is going to be around 2k. With about. ..75% crit. So war horn excluded / no minor slayer you'll be around only 2700 average output. That seems a little low in real world terms.

Group buffs makes this setup ridiculous. The very same thing that makes minor slayer not viable on a magplar makes high crit setup viable. Sweeps and Beam are % based damage, when you add in the crit damage modifiers along wtih a high crit percentage you end up doing ridiculously high damage.

Without group buffs your BiS setup would be TBS Spinner's Garments and Grothdarr/Skoria

Izaki · October 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Am I right in thinking. With Tbs mothers sorrow your base damage is going to be around 2k. With about. ..75% crit. So war horn excluded / no minor slayer you'll be around only 2700 average output. That seems a little low in real world terms.

Well remember my thread? Templars shouldn't be too far from sorcerers in terms of best sets. After all the only CP that are taken into account in calculating which sets are better are Spell Erosion and Elfborn.
Mother's Sorrow is just nowhere near the effective spell power of TBS or Julianos. And the down side of Julianos is that the Monster Helm set damage isn't affected by your Spell Damage stat. Even with all them Warhorns and Minor Force, Mother's Sorrow doesn't seem like being a good "core" set. Funny that I used to "hate" TBS before...

TBS + Mother's Sorrow is potentially a good idea.
You're getting base critical chance, 10% from Light Armor passives, 12% from the Apprentice Constellation, 10% from Major Prophecy, 3% from Minor Prophecy, 13.8% from Mother's Sorrow and 16.7% from the Thief mundus.
That gives you 75.5% crit chance.

Your critical damage with considering 56 points into Elfborn (17%), Templar Passive (10%), Minor Force (12%) and finally the Shadow mundus (18.3%) = 107.3%

So your critical hit modifier is therefore equal to 1 + 0.755 x 1.073 = 1.81 which is pretty good.

So your spell damage will be pretty low, 3 gold jewelry enchantments, 50% uptime on spell damage enchantment on the swords, dual wield swords all of which equals to 2331 before buffs. Minor and Major Sorcerery included you are at 2,913 and with Spell Power Cure (258) it will be 3195.

Lastly the maximum magicka you should be sitting at with this set up as a High Elf (10%), with Undaunted passives (6%), Inner Light (7%) and Shooting Star (2%) slotted along with the Warhorn ressource buff (10%) is 46042 magicka.

All of this gives us the Effective Spell Power of the build: (spell damage + max magicka/10.46) x (critical modifier).

Spell damage = 3195
Critical modifier = 1.81
Magicka = 46042

Which gives us : (3195 + 4402) x 1.81 = 13750

Which is pretty decent. And that's without Major Force.

The down side is that you don't get the Minor Slayer bonus, which might very well out perform the extra critical chance. After all its a flat 5% increase to everything you do. Too bad that it doesn't work well on Templars because of the scaling...

Xrucible · October 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Am I right in thinking. With Tbs mothers sorrow your base damage is going to be around 2k. With about. ..75% crit. So war horn excluded / no minor slayer you'll be around only 2700 average output. That seems a little low in real world terms.

Well remember my thread? Templars shouldn't be too far from sorcerers in terms of best sets. After all the only CP that are taken into account in calculating which sets are better are Spell Erosion and Elfborn.
Mother's Sorrow is just nowhere near the effective spell power of TBS or Julianos. And the down side of Julianos is that the Monster Helm set damage isn't affected by your Spell Damage stat. Even with all them Warhorns and Minor Force, Mother's Sorrow doesn't seem like being a good "core" set. Funny that I used to "hate" TBS before...

TBS + Mother's Sorrow is potentially a good idea.
You're getting base critical chance, 10% from Light Armor passives, 12% from the Apprentice Constellation, 10% from Major Prophecy, 3% from Minor Prophecy, 13.8% from Mother's Sorrow and 16.7% from the Thief mundus.
That gives you 75.5% crit chance.

Your critical damage with considering 56 points into Elfborn (17%), Templar Passive (10%), Minor Force (12%) and finally the Shadow mundus (18.3%) = 107.3%

So your critical hit modifier is therefore equal to 1 + 0.755 x 1.073 = 1.81 which is pretty good.

So your spell damage will be pretty low, 3 gold jewelry enchantments, 50% uptime on spell damage enchantment on the swords, dual wield swords all of which equals to 2331 before buffs. Minor and Major Sorcerery included you are at 2,913 and with Spell Power Cure (258) it will be 3195.

Lastly the maximum magicka you should be sitting at with this set up as a High Elf (10%), with Undaunted passives (6%), Inner Light (7%) and Shooting Star (2%) slotted along with the Warhorn ressource buff (10%) is 46042 magicka.

All of this gives us the Effective Spell Power of the build: (spell damage + max magicka/10.46) x (critical modifier).

Spell damage = 3195
Critical modifier = 1.81
Magicka = 46042

Which gives us : (3195 + 4402) x 1.81 = 13750

Which is pretty decent. And that's without Major Force.

The down side is that you don't get the Minor Slayer bonus, which might very well out perform the extra critical chance. After all its a flat 5% increase to everything you do. Too bad that it doesn't work well on Templars because of the scaling...

If Minor Slayer is fixed Moondancer+TBS/Mother's Sorrow will out dps TBS + Mother's Sorrow.

Destruent · October 2016

Xrucible wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Am I right in thinking. With Tbs mothers sorrow your base damage is going to be around 2k. With about. ..75% crit. So war horn excluded / no minor slayer you'll be around only 2700 average output. That seems a little low in real world terms.

Well remember my thread? Templars shouldn't be too far from sorcerers in terms of best sets. After all the only CP that are taken into account in calculating which sets are better are Spell Erosion and Elfborn.
Mother's Sorrow is just nowhere near the effective spell power of TBS or Julianos. And the down side of Julianos is that the Monster Helm set damage isn't affected by your Spell Damage stat. Even with all them Warhorns and Minor Force, Mother's Sorrow doesn't seem like being a good "core" set. Funny that I used to "hate" TBS before...

TBS + Mother's Sorrow is potentially a good idea.
You're getting base critical chance, 10% from Light Armor passives, 12% from the Apprentice Constellation, 10% from Major Prophecy, 3% from Minor Prophecy, 13.8% from Mother's Sorrow and 16.7% from the Thief mundus.
That gives you 75.5% crit chance.

Your critical damage with considering 56 points into Elfborn (17%), Templar Passive (10%), Minor Force (12%) and finally the Shadow mundus (18.3%) = 107.3%

So your critical hit modifier is therefore equal to 1 + 0.755 x 1.073 = 1.81 which is pretty good.

So your spell damage will be pretty low, 3 gold jewelry enchantments, 50% uptime on spell damage enchantment on the swords, dual wield swords all of which equals to 2331 before buffs. Minor and Major Sorcerery included you are at 2,913 and with Spell Power Cure (258) it will be 3195.

Lastly the maximum magicka you should be sitting at with this set up as a High Elf (10%), with Undaunted passives (6%), Inner Light (7%) and Shooting Star (2%) slotted along with the Warhorn ressource buff (10%) is 46042 magicka.

All of this gives us the Effective Spell Power of the build: (spell damage + max magicka/10.46) x (critical modifier).

Spell damage = 3195
Critical modifier = 1.81
Magicka = 46042

Which gives us : (3195 + 4402) x 1.81 = 13750

Which is pretty decent. And that's without Major Force.

The down side is that you don't get the Minor Slayer bonus, which might very well out perform the extra critical chance. After all its a flat 5% increase to everything you do. Too bad that it doesn't work well on Templars because of the scaling...

If Minor Slayer is fixed Moondancer+TBS/Mother's Sorrow will out dps TBS + Mother's Sorrow.

Minor Slayer gets reduced to ~4% for templars, It's not that it is completely useless. The 5pc Moondancer is also extremely strong (if you are not completely unlucky with proccs).

Joy_Division · October 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

the best stamina builds are pulling 80k dps

@Drdeath20 Link me a parse of someone doing 80k DPS on a single target. I won't believe it till I see it, with a full video and the parse at the end. Highest I've ever seen was 58k on a stamina DK.
I think you just wanted to come up with an insanely number to try to show that magicka builds are outclassed by stamina. It is not the case. Ask any of the people who run in competitive trial groups. Magicka have a slightly less DPS, but more survivability. Stamina has slightly more DPS, but its A LOT harder to stay alive. I play both as mains. Personal experience? Stamina is harder in every way, the only exception being magicka sorcerer. Stamina rotations with maelstrom weapons are very hard to master compared to NB or Templar.

Vicious Death doesn't work in PvE but DR X already said that... Which kinda makes me think even more that you just made the 80k up But hey, just show me a parse!

I really wish you "competitive trial group" members would demonstrate that magicka is right up there with stam DPS and exceeding them in surviability when in comes to PvP.

I keep hearing that over and over it is "A LOT" harder to stay alive and play stam in trials but this to me is as believable as an 80K DPS parse is to you. Stam builds have zero survivability issues in PvP - in fact they are too survivable - and the stam players I PvE raid with do not die disproportionately more often than magicka.

Why don't you run a mDK with that world class DPS and surviability in the open world PvP and show ignorant people such as myself just how much power magicka has in this meta.

Izaki · October 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

the best stamina builds are pulling 80k dps

@Drdeath20 Link me a parse of someone doing 80k DPS on a single target. I won't believe it till I see it, with a full video and the parse at the end. Highest I've ever seen was 58k on a stamina DK.
I think you just wanted to come up with an insanely number to try to show that magicka builds are outclassed by stamina. It is not the case. Ask any of the people who run in competitive trial groups. Magicka have a slightly less DPS, but more survivability. Stamina has slightly more DPS, but its A LOT harder to stay alive. I play both as mains. Personal experience? Stamina is harder in every way, the only exception being magicka sorcerer. Stamina rotations with maelstrom weapons are very hard to master compared to NB or Templar.

Vicious Death doesn't work in PvE but DR X already said that... Which kinda makes me think even more that you just made the 80k up But hey, just show me a parse!

I really wish you "competitive trial group" members would demonstrate that magicka is right up there with stam DPS and exceeding them in surviability when in comes to PvP.

I keep hearing that over and over it is "A LOT" harder to stay alive and play stam in trials but this to me is as believable as an 80K DPS parse is to you. Stam builds have zero survivability issues in PvP - in fact they are too survivable - and the stam players I PvE raid with do not die disproportionately more often than magicka.

Why don't you run a mDK with that world class DPS and surviability in the open world PvP and show ignorant people such as myself just how much power magicka has in this meta.

@Joy_Division
I don't know why I'm going to bother even replying because no matter what I say you won't agree with me. Plus its completely off topic. But screw it, whatever
Yeah I think that @Alcast and @Nifty2g, among others, will confirm the fact that its much less hassle to survive on magicka builds than it is on stamina builds. Cause you know shields are there to be used. By the way do you even play any stamina toons? Your point of view seems pretty biased to me.
PvP is not the same as PvE though. There's no place to run Shuffle and there's no time to do a few roll dodges. Mobs don't gap close in PvE and suddenly you see that range is a HUGE advantage (its as simple as getting the bigger picture of the fight for example, simply because you're further away from the action).
No disproportionality? Yeah cause people who do raids usually are good enough with their class to not die all the time? I don't know about you but it seems pretty logical to me. You put in time before you go into a trial, you don't just make a character get all the skills you need and go for a lil vet hard mode, do you? You go learn your rotation, you get familiar with the class, the strong and weak points, etc.
I really don't mean to come off as a *** and I'm sorry if I do, but I just think that PvP balance is very far from PvE balance. In PvE things aren't too bad for magicka at all. They are pulling decent numbers, a bit behind stamina sure, but they have their roles. Just look at MoL, everyone who's done it says that the majority of their group was magicka based DPS. There must be a reason for that don't you think?

I'll say it again, PvP is not PvE. You won't see a stamina DPS wearing Black Rose or Malubeth in a raid. Or a magicka Templar with a SnB perma-blocking. But you already knew that. So why do you answer my comment which was purely about PvE with PvP arguments? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

PS: You can't deny that 80k DPS is a bit over the top. What kind of group buffs do you have to have to do that?

Joy_Division · October 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

the best stamina builds are pulling 80k dps

@Drdeath20 Link me a parse of someone doing 80k DPS on a single target. I won't believe it till I see it, with a full video and the parse at the end. Highest I've ever seen was 58k on a stamina DK.
I think you just wanted to come up with an insanely number to try to show that magicka builds are outclassed by stamina. It is not the case. Ask any of the people who run in competitive trial groups. Magicka have a slightly less DPS, but more survivability. Stamina has slightly more DPS, but its A LOT harder to stay alive. I play both as mains. Personal experience? Stamina is harder in every way, the only exception being magicka sorcerer. Stamina rotations with maelstrom weapons are very hard to master compared to NB or Templar.

Vicious Death doesn't work in PvE but DR X already said that... Which kinda makes me think even more that you just made the 80k up But hey, just show me a parse!

I really wish you "competitive trial group" members would demonstrate that magicka is right up there with stam DPS and exceeding them in surviability when in comes to PvP.

I keep hearing that over and over it is "A LOT" harder to stay alive and play stam in trials but this to me is as believable as an 80K DPS parse is to you. Stam builds have zero survivability issues in PvP - in fact they are too survivable - and the stam players I PvE raid with do not die disproportionately more often than magicka.

Why don't you run a mDK with that world class DPS and surviability in the open world PvP and show ignorant people such as myself just how much power magicka has in this meta.

@Joy_Division
I don't know why I'm going to bother even replying because no matter what I say you won't agree with me. Plus its completely off topic. But screw it, whatever
Yeah I think that @Alcast and @Nifty2g, among others, will confirm the fact that its much less hassle to survive on magicka builds than it is on stamina builds. Cause you know shields are there to be used. By the way do you even play any stamina toons? Your point of view seems pretty biased to me.
PvP is not the same as PvE though. There's no place to run Shuffle and there's no time to do a few roll dodges. Mobs don't gap close in PvE and suddenly you see that range is a HUGE advantage (its as simple as getting the bigger picture of the fight for example, simply because you're further away from the action).
No disproportionality? Yeah cause people who do raids usually are good enough with their class to not die all the time? I don't know about you but it seems pretty logical to me. You put in time before you go into a trial, you don't just make a character get all the skills you need and go for a lil vet hard mode, do you? You go learn your rotation, you get familiar with the class, the strong and weak points, etc.
I really don't mean to come off as a *** and I'm sorry if I do, but I just think that PvP balance is very far from PvE balance. In PvE things aren't too bad for magicka at all. They are pulling decent numbers, a bit behind stamina sure, but they have their roles. Just look at MoL, everyone who's done it says that the majority of their group was magicka based DPS. There must be a reason for that don't you think?

I'll say it again, PvP is not PvE. You won't see a stamina DPS wearing Black Rose or Malubeth in a raid. Or a magicka Templar with a SnB perma-blocking. But you already knew that. So why do you answer my comment which was purely about PvE with PvP arguments? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

PS: You can't deny that 80k DPS is a bit over the top. What kind of group buffs do you have to have to do that?

@IzakiBrotheSs -

Why do you think I wouldn't agree with you? Because I have a strong interpretation in this matter? Does that by default make me disinterested in discussion or closed off to learning new perspectives?

I don't need @Nifty2g or @Alcast to educate me on what shields can do. It may come to a surprise, but I am familiar with the basic mechanics and abilities in the game as well as their application. I don't use harness magicka or a shield in any trial I play as a magicka build (I do them all except MOL). And even though you think I am biased, I have played and do play a stamina character: in fact I played a stamina sorcerer back at launch before it was the cool thing to do.

How am I supposed to reconcile you saying that stam is "A LOT harder to stay alive" yet also tell me that stam players don't die more than magicka players because they are skilled and know their characters? To me, I interpret that as it's not "A LOT" harder since staying alive is less about mechanics and more about knowing how to play. You stress range, but half of magicka DPS also want to be in melee and most trial bosses are just melee stacks. You are just parroting general game-theory phrases that are not necessarily applicable to ESO, let alone this patch.

As for magicka dominated MOL, why don't you actually tell me instead of repeating platitudes? From what I understand, a big reason is that there is a specific burst damage mechanic that pretty much requires harness magicka to survive. If that's the case, people are running those builds because of a stupid game-mechanic overly restricts options as opposed to choice. But that's MOL. Stam builds DPS and survive just fine in SO and in AA by creative stacking on the final boss. The Warrior is a pain to DPS because it moves and the Starfall somewhat inconvenient in that blocking and slotting a HoT maybe necessary, but as you say, you learn the class you'll survive.

I know PvP balance isn't the same as PvE balance. But ESO does not distinguish between the two aside from the Battelspirit mechanic. Thus if PvP is out of whack because stam is out of control, I am going to object to arguments that say the balance in ESO is fine because in some specific PVE trial fights things aren't too bad for magicka. I am guessing you wouldn't be too happy if PvP balance was fine but your end-game trials were out of whack, would you? So the answer to your question is that ESO is not pure PvE (or PvP); arguments made regarding game balance cannot be restricted to one because it affects the other.

Yes I know 80K DPS is ridiculous. As ridiculous to me that a high weapon build with Shuffle + Rally + Vigor + dodge roll is "A LOT" harder to stay alive. Maybe that doesn't keep stam alive in MOL, but the damage avoidance and suriviability of the combination is over-performing in the other areas of ESO, which are just as valid parts of the game as end game trials

Alcast · October 2016

Drdeath20 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Would this work for new sets incoming.

5tbs, 5 spc with jewlery and sharpened swords and Skoria. So procs on jabs and you can have almost 100% uptime, good max magika, good recovery. What's not to like.

TBS Mother's Sorrow Skoria/Grothdarr and VMA Staff. Your DPS is going to be comparable with stam builds..

Minor Slayer?! I don't see it. You kinda have to have it. Magicka DPS is already comparable to stam builds. Mage sorcerers out there pulling almost 50k.

the best stamina builds are pulling 80k dps

show me proove. And please no 10second tomato fight