You're doing it wrong - Is it just me?

Vrathak

Totally normal. And it s like that in any games. Me and other players are what we call Min-Maxers and hardcore theory crafters. We`re all about finding ways in using the mechanics of the games to their fullest. Our fun is to be as strong as can be and as good as can be in every aspect of the game, basically our goal is to break the boundaries the game tries to force us in and do *** that aren`t supposed to be doable or are not meant to be for the average player.

Like soloing group dungeons and vet group dungeons, fighting 1vX in PvP, find the best way to make money in time efficient, etc.

Then there are the casual players, like you and 99% of the gaming community, who are here to enjoy the game, get stronger but don`t want to spend hours researching game mechanics and testing stuff out and doesn`t have crazy hand-eye synchronization skill.

So is it normal you feel that way? YES
Should you feel that way? NO
Should you listen to what the 1% tells you? YES
Should you expect to be doing it 100% right? NO

We test everything out and find the best ways to do things and sorry to say, are way better skilled players than the 99%, which is not something to be ashamed of. It`s like playing a music instrument, if you practice you`ll be good. If you have talent for it you`ll be good. If you listen to your teacher you`ll be good. If you practice a LOT and have talent for it and listen to people playing the same instrument, you`ll be in the 1% community.

So keep listening to us, but don`t expect to be like us unless you put time and effort into it. You`ll definitely get better, but if you aren`t a hardcore theory crafter and min-maxer, you`ll never be "Doing it right" according to us. But you`ll be doing freaking amazing according to the 99% left.

carljokl

bryanhaas wrote: »

What platform are you on btw?

@bryanhaas

I Play on PS4 on the North American server. This might seem a little strange for someone in the EU. I have a friend who is a long time fan of Elder Scrolls and introduced me to it. He emigrated to Canada with his Canadian wife. I bought the game in hopes of being able to play with him. After buying it he informed me that I can't play with him because he is on PC. Then I discovered my characters are locked not only by platform but by server too *sigh*

Three more examples of "You're doing it wrong!":

1) Don't assume you can play with people on another platform / server. Check!

2) You would enjoy the PC version better! Join the PC Master Race..Console? What? You're doing it wrong...etc...meeting interesting players who are on PC knowing I can't play with them.

3) In Europe playing on North American server. Nice for harvesting nodes as America sleeps. Not so great for finding groups to play with or having regular friends due to time differences. When the game starts getting busy it is usually a sign I should be in bed.

On the plus side I notice you are a Guild Master of a PS4 NA guild.
Children of the Void? This is a mature content game. Children should not be playing. They're under age / They're doing it wrong!

RoyalPink06

I know exactly what you mean, OP. I've been playing on PS4 since launch and I still feel like a lamb in a lion's den. I generally try to avoid "elitist" players who have that attitude that they are better than everyone, like they were never level 5 once. But I do listen to the goings-on around me and I try to cherry pick what tips and tricks might work for me. I read the forums a lot. I ignore the rest. There is so much to learn in this game and there are soooo many different ways to build your characters that it does get super confusing and overwhelming sometimes.

But hey, if you were a master of everything right out of the gate, there would be nothing to learn and nothing to get better at. Just as long as you're having fun, I think that's all that matters.

SirAndy

lordrichter wrote: »

Edit: Had a lot to say, but decided to boil it down to a simple message: Don't worry about what other people think. Listen to them, but do what you want. Adapt their advice as necessary, but don't blindly follow.

Case in point: DPS numbers

You'll see all sorts of huge DPS claims thrown around by people and usually when you follow up on it it comes down to:

Oh, yes, i was fully self-buffed, crouching and had my group of 11 put their buffs on me. The tank(s) held aggro so i didn't have to block or dodge and the healers kept me alive so i didn't have to worry about that either.
But still, i'm soooooo good and my DPS is huuuuge.

Put them into a scenario where they have to fight a boss solo and you'll see all those DPS claims crumble into oblivion.

Bottom line, people will ALWAYS embellish, take everything with a grain of salt (or two).

carljokl

"It is quite possible to solo Craglorn"

Level CP150 Dragon Knight with CP140 Voidsteel improved gear in Hundings Rage set. CP 140 Epic level Hundings Bow. Shoot at a Wasp swarm with arrows. Negligible damage. Swarm closes in, call down Standard of Might in desperation...negligible damage. Swarm catches up, sting sting...dead....I know....I'm doing it wrong....

bryanhaas

carljokl wrote: »

bryanhaas wrote: »

What platform are you on btw?

@bryanhaas

I Play on PS4 on the North American server. This might seem a little strange for someone in the EU. I have a friend who is a long time fan of Elder Scrolls and introduced me to it. He emigrated to Canada with his Canadian wife. I bought the game in hopes of being able to play with him. After buying it he informed me that I can't play with him because he is on PC. Then I discovered my characters are locked not only by platform but by server too *sigh*

Three more examples of "You're doing it wrong!":

1) Don't assume you can play with people on another platform / server. Check!

2) You would enjoy the PC version better! Join the PC Master Race..Console? What? You're doing it wrong...etc...meeting interesting players who are on PC knowing I can't play with them.

3) In Europe playing on North American server. Nice for harvesting nodes as America sleeps. Not so great for finding groups to play with or having regular friends due to time differences. When the game starts getting busy it is usually a sign I should be in bed.

On the plus side I notice you are a Guild Master of a PS4 NA guild.
Children of the Void? This is a mature content game. Children should not be playing. They're under age / They're doing it wrong!

Lol, I'm 36 myself btw. On the making gold I can help you with that, I have a pricing list I have been updating based on sales. There have been a few weeks I have made 700k to 1 mil but I stopped focusing on it so much. So far this week I am up about 200k.

Btw the guild name is kinda based on the quote "When you stare into the void the void stares back into you."
It sorta shares some parallels with Sithis but it is not based completely on it. Just like Molag Bal is similar yet different from Mauloch Ba'al Or Mauloch and Ba'al. I believe Mauloch and Ba'al are one in the same and undoubtedly that is probably where Bethesda got the idea of Molag Bal. What better inspiration than an ancient god that demanded the blood of the innocent as recompense because as we all know innocence is the greatest illusion of all.

SirAndy

carljokl wrote: »

"It is quite possible to solo Craglorn"
Level CP150 Dragon Knight with CP140 Voidsteel improved gear in Hundings Rage set. CP 140 Epic level Hundings Bow. Shoot at a Wasp swarm with arrows. Negligible damage. Swarm closes in, call down Standard of Might in desperation...negligible damage. Swarm catches up, sting sting...dead....I know....I'm doing it wrong....

What's your unbuffed base damage? If it's less than 2500, you'll be having problems with the world mobs.

The world mobs are a good DPS check to see if you can solo the group dungeons in Craglorn.

Defilted

OP,

Please understand that most people are greatly exagerating about what they can do in this game. Yes there are people who are not and could prove to you they are telling the truth by they do not owe anyone an explaination.

If you feel that the game play is enjoyable and you feel you time is being well spent then keep playing the game. You will find your own ways to improve and increase time and gold making efficiency.

I get told things in pug groups all the time just to watch them fail greatly and then come up with an excuse of why it is not how they say it is this time. Take what most people say with a grain of salt and do your own trial and error.

At some point you are going to make friends if you have not already and those people will tend to be more honest because they will not feel like they have to make a good impression all the time.

Good luck


Grammar
Replaced pig with pug

carljokl

@bryanhaas

bryanhaas wrote: »

Lol, I'm 36 myself btw. On the making gold I can help you with that, I have a pricing list I have been updating based on sales. There have been a few weeks I have made 700k to 1 mil but I stopped focusing on it so much. So far this week I am up about 200k.

Btw the guild name is kinda based on the quote "When you stare into the void the void stares back into you."
It sorta shares some parallels with Sithis but it is not based completely on it. Just like Molag Bal is similar yet different from Mauloch Ba'al Or Mauloch and Ba'al. I believe Mauloch and Ba'al are one in the same and undoubtedly that is probably where Bethesda got the idea of Molag Bal. What better inspiration than an ancient god that demanded the blood of the innocent as recompense because as we all know innocence is the greatest illusion of all.

1) Are you recruiting? There is one guild I was going to drop anyway. I had thought of creating my own guild but realistically at this point I don't have a stable group of friends to put in it anyway.

2) I see you are 9 trait at all things. When I am at the point of researching Nirnhorned, could I provide you with the trait stone and materials to craft researchable items? Most items I have 4-6 traits researched. Heavy armour I managed to just finish having at least 6 across everything. Light and medium is mostly 5. My Bow is researching the 8th trait and shield the 7th. I believe I may be researching the 8th. I was hoping to avoid paying tens of thousands per item in guild stores with all the improvements and set traits that are unnecessary if I only want to research the trait. The final 9th traits are going to take so long to research I am confident I can come across enough Nirncrux stones to replace the ones I have used for research.

bryanhaas

carljokl wrote: »

@bryanhaas

bryanhaas wrote: »

Lol, I'm 36 myself btw. On the making gold I can help you with that, I have a pricing list I have been updating based on sales. There have been a few weeks I have made 700k to 1 mil but I stopped focusing on it so much. So far this week I am up about 200k.

Btw the guild name is kinda based on the quote "When you stare into the void the void stares back into you."
It sorta shares some parallels with Sithis but it is not based completely on it. Just like Molag Bal is similar yet different from Mauloch Ba'al Or Mauloch and Ba'al. I believe Mauloch and Ba'al are one in the same and undoubtedly that is probably where Bethesda got the idea of Molag Bal. What better inspiration than an ancient god that demanded the blood of the innocent as recompense because as we all know innocence is the greatest illusion of all.

1) Are you recruiting? There is one guild I was going to drop anyway. I had thought of creating my own guild but realistically at this point I don't have a stable group of friends to put in it anyway.

2) I see you are 9 trait at all things. When I am at the point of researching Nirnhorned, could I provide you with the trait stone and materials to craft researchable items? Most items I have 4-6 traits researched. Heavy armour I managed to just finish having at least 6 across everything. Light and medium is mostly 5. My Bow is researching the 8th trait and shield the 7th. I believe I may be researching the 8th. I was hoping to avoid paying tens of thousands per item in guild stores with all the improvements and set traits that are unnecessary if I only want to research the trait. The final 9th traits are going to take so long to research I am confident I can come across enough Nirncrux stones to replace the ones I have used for research.

Yes I am recruiting. Currently at 280 some members and have a trader in Auridon. I know I have some middle of the night people but if you find there are not enough late nighters then I know the guild I usually PVP has a number of Aussies that might be in the same time zone as you. If you could send me a message in game or on PSN and I'll get you an invite tonight. I usually share researched items with friends and guild mates. If you are after nirncrux get your crafting to 9/10 and do crafting writs.

DRXHarbinger

Who lures guards away from a farm? Run in, aoes down, kill the healers, kill the other two and then the tower ***. They aren't built like bosses at all, takes 3 mins top.


And some of the comments on "you'll never be a great player in a few months"...were there no good players a few months after launch then or have they just turned up?

Swainburg

carljokl wrote: »

I have been playing ESO a few months now. I wonder if it is just me who feels like however I play I will be "doing it wrong". I have received advice from people which can be helpful.

Still no matter how long I play I still feel like I am not a good player. There always seems to be something I am not doing right. I don't have the character build right. I don't have the right gear combination. I don't have the right buffs. I am going about making money or earning experience the wrong way.

People make claims: I can make x amount of gold in y amount of time easily. I can level up a character in z amount of time. Then my own experience falls far short of being able to do that.

I wonder firstly if it is common for people to feel that way?
It is best to take all advice on board and strive to be the most effective player possible?
Is it better to embrace being a poor / imperfect player and just relax and focus on enjoying the game instead?

RELAX dude, this game was built around the "play how you want" sure some things are better than others on paper, but ultimately the best way to go is the way you want to.

carljokl

I have been thinking to give some context about why I started playing.

Working in a big city there is a lot of drive to get ahead and make a name for yourself. Communities pushing that the best people are working on their own projects in their spare time. Contributing to open source software and answering technical questions on forums.

Creating something novel opens the opportunity to start speaking about it in meetups. Write a book about it. Ultimately tour the world speaking at conferences and basking in the praise of fellow software developers.

There is always another meetup and conference to attend. Another book to read. Another programming language and several frameworks to learn.

I tried it for a while but would burn out. Others seemed to manage it with more success.

With joining ESO I kind of admitted defeat as I wasn't getting anywhere and it certainly wasn't making me happy.

My point?

I fear the ESO experience could end up mimicking the same problems. The people striving to be the best and distinguish themselves. There will always be another quest, another achievement, another skill to master, another sky shard to find, another dungeon to clear. I just want to enjoy it without so much pressure on my performance / achievements / relative ranking and standing.

Waffennacht

@DRXHarbinger ... OP already stated that just "running in and AoEing everything"hasn't worked out so well lol. Some actual advice to accomplish the goal is in order. Lol, I guess he just wasn't "running in" just quite right.

carljokl

When I said that the farm guards are built like bosses I refer to the health bar decoration. The game signifies enemies that are tougher than mobs of the same level by having a more and more elaborate health bar. Things like the Dwemer Centurion are not all bosses but notably tougher than other mobs of the same level. Also the fire breathing Daedroth has a similarly decorated health bar. The decoration level is at least two levels above the plain health bar.

Elephant42

Waffennacht wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger ... OP already stated that just "running in and AoEing everything"hasn't worked out so well lol. Some actual advice to accomplish the goal is in order. Lol, I guess he just wasn't "running in" just quite right.

It's a depressingly common occurrance unfortunately. Just about every thread that I've read where someone is complaining about difficulty and/or asking for help with something they are struggling with, seems to be a magnet for certain types of posters who seem to view it as an opportunity for waving e-peens...

DRXHarbinger

Elephant42 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger ... OP already stated that just "running in and AoEing everything"hasn't worked out so well lol. Some actual advice to accomplish the goal is in order. Lol, I guess he just wasn't "running in" just quite right.

It's a depressingly common occurrance unfortunately. Just about every thread that I've read where someone is complaining about difficulty and/or asking for help with something they are struggling with, seems to be a magnet for certain types of posters who seem to view it as an opportunity for waving e-peens...

I find it depressing when people try to be the cool kid by contributing absolutely nothing bar just typing crap that has nothing to do with OT.

Do you trawl Facebook and just type lol at everything you see?

Back on ot. Same thing as any vma guide and you say I'm waving epeens? They are just as vague and say do xyz do they not? Seems easy right...it wasn't. ..but you practiced it and guess what...it worked out for the best..same thing applies here....jump in and practice again and again.and those 4 guards and tower guard will drop will drop like flies...

Unless you're a quitter or just plain suck with your twilight, clannfear, heavy armor and two handed magika build.

carljokl

SirAndy wrote: »

carljokl wrote: »

"It is quite possible to solo Craglorn"
Level CP150 Dragon Knight with CP140 Voidsteel improved gear in Hundings Rage set. CP 140 Epic level Hundings Bow. Shoot at a Wasp swarm with arrows. Negligible damage. Swarm closes in, call down Standard of Might in desperation...negligible damage. Swarm catches up, sting sting...dead....I know....I'm doing it wrong....

What's your unbuffed base damage? If it's less than 2500, you'll be having problems with the world mobs.

The world mobs are a good DPS check to see if you can solo the group dungeons in Craglorn.

Both the CP 140 bow sword say they do about 1100 to 1200 base damage. That is a long way sort of the 2500 needed.

Does the damage go up dramatically from Voidsteel to Rubidite? I can use CP 150 gear but not craft it yet.
I know the CP 160 gear, which as far as I can tell is the top level in the game uses 10x the material to craft of CP 150 gear. I don't know if the jump in damage and protection (for armour) is similarly dramatic?

One of the joys I deal with now is having used full sets of training gear to speed up getting to level 50 as quickly as possible I was able to skip over quite bit of content. I didn't care about it so much for the story having done it before. I am trying to go back to collect missing skyshards and skillpoints. Places like the public dungeons behave a bit strangely. My Character being CP 150+ means the non champion rank public dungeons mobs don't seem to give me any experience and may not even drop anything. This isn't so bad for delves where I can faceroll the enemies just to rush through, grab the skyshard, kill the boss and get out. No point wasting time killing lost of enemies that don't drop anything or give experience. In the public dungeons though the groups of mobs are still quite capable of killing my CP 150 character. I not I can do a lot of damage to them individually but I am badly outnumbered by groups of them. Typically if you attack one mob the whole group will come after you.

I see this as a contrast from playing as my original Magica Sorcerer. He could take down groups of mobs at at once with Crystal Shards and have 2 summoned creatures helping in the fighting. It didn't matter quite so much if the summoned creatures were doing a lot of damage. The main thing was the mob was now split fighting 3 things instead of one and thus dramatically reducing the damage being done on my character. Sometimes the mobs will attack the summoned creatures and end up leaving me alone to pick them off damage free.

This makes me wonder about all the moaning about Magicka characters being underpowered. I keep finding playing with a Sorcerer a lot easier than playing a Dragon Knight.

The Dragon Knight can deal quite a bit of damage but seemingly mostly at close quarters and mostly abilities that hit one enemy at a time. On the Dark Knight I invested points in the Bow and 1 handed and Shield abilities to try and have some good stamina attacks. Non of them seem as effective at dispatching groups of enemies like Crystal Shards does.

However it is probably because....I am doing it wrong.

Asardes

The question is too general to receive a concise answer. You can play badly and still finish all solo content - zone, mages/fighters guild and main quest without a problem. Even finish normal group dungeons if you are carried by stronger players - I PuG a lot and carry 1-2 groups of very weak players every day. But if you try veteran dungeons you are hitting a wall. In some of them you might be carried by exceptionally strong players, but not in the DLC ones. There are two ways to know what you are doing wrong
1) Reactive - fail harder content then check your build, skill rotation etc.
2) Proactive - do that before you go to harder content.

Most people I try to help are so lazy that they don't even read the instructions I give on chat and I suspect most of them didn't read the tool tips on their skills because they are using them wrong (ex. radiant destruction on full health target, from what's probably a stamina or hybrid build Templar in heavy armor swinging a maul). My only suggestion is to be proactive and try to improve a bit on your own before making it hard for others.

Asardes

carljokl wrote: »

"It is quite possible to solo Craglorn"

Level CP150 Dragon Knight with CP140 Voidsteel improved gear in Hundings Rage set. CP 140 Epic level Hundings Bow. Shoot at a Wasp swarm with arrows. Negligible damage. Swarm closes in, call down Standard of Might in desperation...negligible damage. Swarm catches up, sting sting...dead....I know....I'm doing it wrong....

From context I understand your armor is heavy, since voidsteel is used for heavy armor and melee weapons. That explains the very weak damage. Heavy armor does have a passive that increases spell and weapon damage, but only if you are hit a lot in a short time span. For melee & bow fighters medium armor has a lot more useful passives, including one that increases your weapon damage by 6/12% if you wear at least 5 medium armor pieces. Both bow and melee weapon damage scales of maximum stamina and weapon damage (from your character window). Thus stacking stamina and weapon damage and wearing 5/7 medium armor is the way to go if you want to kill stuff with a stamina character. Ultimate base damage scales on your highest stat, so another good reason to increase one to the maximum.

strikeback1247

If you can complete vMSA, you definitely know you can play your character well. It is the ultimate test. You need fast reaction times, knowledge of the game and your class, a good rotation, and a great build.

carljokl

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger ... OP already stated that just "running in and AoEing everything"hasn't worked out so well lol. Some actual advice to accomplish the goal is in order. Lol, I guess he just wasn't "running in" just quite right.

It's a depressingly common occurrance unfortunately. Just about every thread that I've read where someone is complaining about difficulty and/or asking for help with something they are struggling with, seems to be a magnet for certain types of posters who seem to view it as an opportunity for waving e-peens...

I find it depressing when people try to be the cool kid by contributing absolutely nothing bar just typing crap that has nothing to do with OT.

Do you trawl Facebook and just type lol at everything you see?

Back on ot. Same thing as any vma guide and you say I'm waving epeens? They are just as vague and say do xyz do they not? Seems easy right...it wasn't. ..but you practiced it and guess what...it worked out for the best..same thing applies here....jump in and practice again and again.and those 4 guards and tower guard will drop will drop like flies...

Unless you're a quitter or just plain suck with your twilight, clannfear, heavy armor and two handed magika build.

I personally thought the point made by @Elephant42 seemed reasonable.

The Original Topic related to trying to find if people had felt similarly to me.
Also it goes into advice on what I should do about it.

There is a balance to be struck. I believe everyone would like to be a better player. It is just trying to balance that with not getting so caught up in it that the game is no longer enjoyable.

Some take aways from discussing the specific problems is that I am probably better of waiting until I have levelled up some more finely tuned alts to deal with group content, PvP, Craglorn, DLC etc.

I can't just rely on the non veteran zone rule of thumb that as long as I am around the right character level for the zone I should be capable of completing the content. Even with a sub optimal build and imperfect play style.

One thing I know I need to improve on is mastering dodging and blocking mechanics. I don't use it effectively at all.

Asardes

You can complete even the content in the soon-to-go-extinct veteran areas with a crappy hybrid build in junk gear. I cleared Cadwell's Silver & Gold solo, including dolmens, world bosses and public dungeons with a hybrid DK in full VR3 blue heavy training armor - 22M/20H/22S (needed that to tank veteran dungeons before I could afford VR16 gear and tri-glyphs). I rotated every weapon on the main bar DPS-ing with heavy attacks the class skills; at that point Nords didn't have a stamina passive and I was unsure if I would go magicka or stamina endgame so I even trained restoration and destruction staff lines to 50. Now my alts clear the same areas, which have been slightly bumped up by 30-50CP in level 44 training gear while shuffling a mish-mash of skills on the main bar to train them all.

With VR14 purple heavy and 0M/16H/48S I cleared all lower Craglorn delves solo. Most other content there I did in a duo with a DD and I did not even have rally at that point; I could manage to get a group of 4 people just for the missions where there were needed to push levers. But my DPS sucked badly in comparison with I can do now on the same character in medium armor and with 2H passives. In this setup the aforementioned wasps melt like butter to acid spray, carve and flawless dawnbreaker combo, even if I'm unbuffed.

JkahrrRadnar

A friend of mine stopped playing w/ me when he started aiming for perfect vet gear -does that make me feel bad for my thoughtless build and slow progress? Yes. But would I enjoy changing my playstyle? Never.
So: @Nestor 's advice is good advice ;D