Underwhelming undaunted monster sets Clannfear and Slimeclaw need a change.

Kaendor

Hello
As the title says these two sets Clannfear and Slimeclaw are by far the 2 worst undaunted sets that are present in the pts right now. I am sure that I'm not the only one that would like every single of the new sets to be viable and actually useful, so I would really like to ask for a change in these two sets which everybody most likely is going to just trash or decon them if they stay as they are. (Sorry no pics added, I dont want to use somebody else's pics

Lets start with Clannfear or should I say Maw of the infernal V2!!...
the 1 piece set is nice with the magicka regen, I'm ok with the summoned clannfear, and probably the minor maim it applies... But why does it apply "Physical damage" on a set aimed towards magicka pet builds, or jsut magicka in general? it does not make any logical sense, and the damage seems to be even lower than maw. This set really needs to deal "Magic Damage" instead of physical and have its damage bumped quite a bit if its actually spected to beused instead of deconned as the infinite amount of maw of the infernal pieces that nobody uses and everybody decons.

Now Slimeclaw...
This set is a weird combination of what it seems a dpsing set and a health regen tank set, which gives a whooping 8% weapon damage...which any of the other sets can easily outdo... Why not changing it into something that will actually be useful lets say something like 1 pc = X weapon and spell critical, and 2 pc = X% chance on critical to increase weapon and spell dmg by X amount. Really if I wanted 8% weapon damage it could easily be switched to 1 pc kena in most builds and 1 pc something else which is going to actually work better.

Some of us really waited a long time to see these sets actually being added into the game, most of the other sets are ok, some are even great but these two seem like a waste of space at the moment. I believe nobody wants to see more useless sets like Maw of the infernal being added which is another that I believe people would probably want to see changed too...

psychotic13

Health recovery kills the slimeclaw set, could be decent with an alternative.

acw37162

Slim craw is awesome for anyone not a nightblade.

Minor beserk effects everyone tanks, healers, DPS, magica, or stamina and while I personally hate health regen it's a trade off I can accept. I would prefer a straight health bonus but it doesn't kill it for me.

I intend to farm this set.

Dracane

Slimeclaw seems like a good choice for us mortal classes that are not Nightblades who get minor berserk for free.
I really dislike the health regen though.

Clannfear is the poorest new set together with Iceheart.
Roughly the same proc chance as maw of the infernal, but sigfnificantly lower damage, it is not targetable, which means that it is no additional meat shield and this minor maim debuff is not really needed as a pet sorc. Because you and your pets will almost have a 100% uptime of minor main on an enemy.

And even with these benefits, maw of the infernal was the poorest set so far. What does that say about Clannfear ?
I never found Maw of the inferanl to be any usefull, clannfear will be even less usefull. At least its 1 set piece is a bit more meaningful.
Couldn't the clannfear just apply minor vulnerability please ? That would be something.

Ivan04

Slimecraw is gonna be pretty much BiS for offensive heavy armor builds. Also it doesn't buff weapon damage, but ALL damage. Makes is useful for magic builds too.
I also heard they're gonna increase the Minor Berserk buff length from 15 to 60 minutes after completing some of the repeatable quests in Craglorn (I think it's the one where you have to protect priests? I don't remember), and that gives us a different perspective on this set. Because 1 hour is a pretty long period of time I foresee that everyone is gonna be there constantly, getting that buff to do some other content. Unless you only get to keep this buff in Craglorn, I got to say, this is quite unbalanced.

The summoning helms gotta change though, I agree. The AI just doesn't function very well.

Cinbri

Are you guyz even tried Slimecraw before saying it BiS? Coz 2pc bonus buffing damage less than 1pc of Kena or any monster set with 1pc Max Magicka/Stamina. Monster set, who's 2pc weaker than 1pc of majority of sets... It need either:
1. 1pc spell, weapon damage
2. 1pc spell, weapon penetration.
3. Or leave 1pc hp regen but completely redo 2pc to have X% chance an attack to proc major berserk.
If it goes live as it is, this set will be completely garbage.

Dracane

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you guyz even tried Slimecraw before saying it BiS? Coz 2pc bonus buffing damage less than 1pc of Kena or any monster set with 1pc Max Magicka/Stamina. Monster set, who's 2pc weaker than 1pc of majority of sets... It need either:
1. 1pc spell, weapon damage
2. 1pc spell, weapon penetration.
3. Or leave 1pc hp regen but completely redo 2pc to have X% chance an attack to proc major berserk.
If it goes live as it is, this set will be completely garbage.

Agreed

Cinbri

Here is numbers from pts:
default Sweep damage (from 1 tick): 1555
Sweep with Slimecraw 2pc: 1570
Sweep with 1pc purple Grothdarr (933 max magicka): 1629
Sweep with 1pc of Gr. and 1pc of Infernal Guard (1866 msx magicka total):1670
So as result 2pc Slimecraw 1570 vs 1629 of 1pc max magicka vs 1670 2xMax magicka
The more damage ability deal, the more sugnificant disparity in damage boost. It is just unacceptable.

Gothren

im the only one excited for the clanfear set. I have a use for this and will be using it once i get it. Im happy to see others saying its bad knowing it will get buffed again in the future.

Dracane

Gothren wrote: »

im the only one excited for the clanfear set. I have a use for this and will be using it once i get it. Im happy to see others saying its bad knowing it will get buffed again in the future.

Because it is bad don't play the mysterious one honey.
There is no use for this set.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

Here is numbers from pts:
default Sweep damage (from 1 tick): 1555
Sweep with Slimecraw 2pc: 1570
Sweep with 1pc purple Grothdarr (933 max magicka): 1629
Sweep with 1pc of Gr. and 1pc of Infernal Guard (1866 msx magicka total):1670
So as result 2pc Slimecraw 1570 vs 1629 of 1pc max magicka vs 1670 2xMax magicka
The more damage ability deal, the more sugnificant disparity in damage boost. It is just unacceptable.

This sounds bugged. 8% damage increase from 1555 should be 1679.
But in general I agree, the set is completely useless for group pve unless your healer forgot to slot combat prayer.

Joy_Division

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you guyz even tried Slimecraw before saying it BiS? Coz 2pc bonus buffing damage less than 1pc of Kena or any monster set with 1pc Max Magicka/Stamina. Monster set, who's 2pc weaker than 1pc of majority of sets... It need either:
1. 1pc spell, weapon damage
2. 1pc spell, weapon penetration.
3. Or leave 1pc hp regen but completely redo 2pc to have X% chance an attack to proc major berserk.
If it goes live as it is, this set will be completely garbage.

Agreed. Especially since you can just grab a bunch of physical penetration from another monster set.

blabafat

I don't know if they fixed it, but Slimecraw minor beserk was not applying to the TOOLTIP VALUES OR the ACTUAL DAMAGE when I tried it during the first week of PTS. I tested it, and another friend of mine did too. Maybe they fixed it - am not sure

Gothren

Dracane wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

im the only one excited for the clanfear set. I have a use for this and will be using it once i get it. Im happy to see others saying its bad knowing it will get buffed again in the future.

Because it is bad don't play the mysterious one honey.
There is no use for this set.

ill be using it. i see potential.

Izaki

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you guyz even tried Slimecraw before saying it BiS? Coz 2pc bonus buffing damage less than 1pc of Kena or any monster set with 1pc Max Magicka/Stamina. Monster set, who's 2pc weaker than 1pc of majority of sets... It need either:
1. 1pc spell, weapon damage
2. 1pc spell, weapon penetration.
3. Or leave 1pc hp regen but completely redo 2pc to have X% chance an attack to proc major berserk.
If it goes live as it is, this set will be completely garbage.

Do the math. 129 weapon or spell damage is no where near equal 8% more damage done.

Izaki

blabafat wrote: »

I don't know if they fixed it, but Slimecraw minor beserk was not applying to the TOOLTIP VALUES OR the ACTUAL DAMAGE when I tried it during the first week of PTS. I tested it, and another friend of mine did too. Maybe they fixed it - am not sure

I don't think berserk is meant to change tooltip values but i'm not sure at all

luen79rwb17_ESO

I totally agree with this thread. Slimeclaw looks good on paper and you're led to believe what many ppl have said in this thread "omg NB buff available to me!!".

But if it's on gear you have to consider the tradeoff of wearing something else instead. And that's where this set fails as some ppl have mathematically proved in previous posts.

I personally tested it on vMSA round 1 and it was atrocious. Slimeclaw needs to be reworked to be a viable set.

Kaendor

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I totally agree with this thread. Slimeclaw looks good on paper and you're led to believe what many ppl have said in this thread "omg NB buff available to me!!".

But if it's on gear you have to consider the tradeoff of wearing something else instead. And that's where this set fails as some ppl have mathematically proved in previous posts.

I personally tested it on vMSA round 1 and it was atrocious. Slimeclaw needs to be reworked to be a viable set.

I have spent some time testing with that set in the pts, I used 5 pc deugh king + 2 pc slimeclaw so I stacked the major and minor buff. The numbers did not break of what I usually do with other sets like kena, velidreth or even skoria with stamina which I did not mention in my first post, but I do not know for sure if the bonus given by this set is bugged or simply that the 8% is not as great as it looks on paper.

Vaoh

And...... Where's Iceheart on your list?

Kaendor

Vaoh wrote: »

And...... Where's Iceheart on your list?

Iceheart was not on the pts gear bags until recently, so I did not test it. Judging by the screenshots its not a bad set for shield stacking builds, never as good as infernal guardian tho.

hrothbern

Kaendor wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

And...... Where's Iceheart on your list?

Iceheart was not on the pts gear bags until recently, so I did not test it. Judging by the screenshots its not a bad set for shield stacking builds, never as good as infernal guardian tho.

Because it is Ice I would really like to use it
But for what kind of build ?

A RNG of 20% on an offensive feature is nice, but 20% RNG on a defensive feature ?
20% is too low to rely upon.
The 20% means that you can calculate it in for longer sustain fights.
So not fit for hit & run bursty builds.

Going to sustain builds striking at the right opportunity or only sustain:
A high health build will have a low crit chance
A LA shield stacking build will have a low crit chance
A HA blocking build has no real use for the shield

For now I think that it is most useful for a sustained fight MA build with reasonable high crit chance, which matches with a good Vigor heal.

Other suggestions are welcome

Cinbri

Here is indeed no use of Slimecraw in top-end PvE content as it's your healers' job to provide you with minor berserk buff.
And 1pc hp bonus is bad: no secret that it worse possible bonus but, taking for example Engine Guardian - it is best sustain set so we can forgive 1pc hp regen in exchange of one of the strongest 2pc bonus. With Slimecraw this just doesn't work coz 2pc is situational and overall weak.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Cinbri wrote: »

Are you guyz even tried Slimecraw before saying it BiS? Coz 2pc bonus buffing damage less than 1pc of Kena or any monster set with 1pc Max Magicka/Stamina. Monster set, who's 2pc weaker than 1pc of majority of sets... It need either:
1. 1pc spell, weapon damage
2. 1pc spell, weapon penetration.
3. Or leave 1pc hp regen but completely redo 2pc to have X% chance an attack to proc major berserk.
If it goes live as it is, this set will be completely garbage.

8% is more than 129 spell and weapon damage. My weapon damage is something like 3150, so with kena would be 3229, with slimecraw would be 3402... works out a fair bit stronger than wearing both 1 kena and 1 veli actually

Birdovic

hrothbern wrote: »

Kaendor wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

And...... Where's Iceheart on your list?

Iceheart was not on the pts gear bags until recently, so I did not test it. Judging by the screenshots its not a bad set for shield stacking builds, never as good as infernal guardian tho.

Because it is Ice I would really like to use it
But for what kind of build ?

A RNG of 20% on an offensive feature is nice, but 20% RNG on a defensive feature ?
20% is too low to rely upon.
The 20% means that you can calculate it in for longer sustain fights.
So not fit for hit & run bursty builds.

Going to sustain builds striking at the right opportunity or only sustain:
A high health build will have a low crit chance
A LA shield stacking build will have a low crit chance
A HA blocking build has no real use for the shield

For now I think that it is most useful for a sustained fight MA build with reasonable high crit chance, which matches with a good Vigor heal.

Other suggestions are welcome

I played around with iceheart a little, and man is it underwhelming.
I wished for some ice magic like no one else, but this was a pure disappointment.

How this set currently looks like:

1pc: 688 Spell Crit
2pc: When you deal Critical Damage, you have a 20% chance to gain a damage shield that absorbs 8600 damage for 6 seconds. While the damage shield holds, you deal 770 Cold Damage to all enemies within 5 meters of you every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.


How I'd like to see it, so people actually use it:(Changes are highlighted )

1pc: 1935 Spell Penetration
2pc: When you deal Damage, you have a 33% chance to gain a damage shield that absorbs 6450 damage for 3 seconds.
When the Damage Shield is activated, you deal 770 Cold Damage to all enemies within 5 meters of you for 3 seconds, every 0,5 second. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

Little explanation:
With using normal attacks instead of crits, aswell as increased proc chance overall, you will see this set activating way more often. However, your damage shield duation will be halved and the absorbed damage reduced to compensate. Even if the shields are weaker and the time shorter, the damage effect wont stop if your shield is down and the cooldown is also reduced, which means you can have a 6.5k~ shield up every 4 seconds at best now, ultimately leading to best possible uptime of 75%.
If you are wondering why I replaced Spell Crit with Spellpen: Simply because this set doesnt rely on crits anymore, and Magicka characters are missing a equivalent to Kraghs Physical Spell Penetration, making this set even more appealing. Spellcrit should be moved to Chokethorn in my opinion anyway.
However, this was an idea, and numbers can be adjusted so its not too strong/still too weak.

The Idea was basically, to grant smaller + shorter shields, but more shields overall. The more ticks from the frost damage and the higher overall uptime of shields both lead to interesting combinations with dot/frost dmg/shield based sets
examples:
- Winterborn (Frost Damage)
- Permafrost (Shields)

____________________________________________________________

For the Clannfear, I absolutely agree with @Dracane .
What used to be the Daedroth, is now the Clannfear, except the Daedroth simply is better now.
I dont know about pets. While their AI is key to make them "cool", I also believe they will unfortunately always remain this "dumb".

That said, Pets could do some meaningful debuffs, not all classes have access to.
Even if they stay "dumb", afflicting enemies with Debuffs or you with a Buff, is something which doesnt depend too much on AI, if given a proper radius for instance.

One example was already mentioned: "Minor vulnerarability".
This would work especially good on the clannfear, since it cannot be targeted, and therefore be used as a reliable source for this Debuff from every class.

For that to be a thing though, the proc chance of 5% is out of question and needs to be increased, or be activated.
Heck, we could even give it Major Maim or a chance to proc Major Heroism or Major Berserk for a short time , but that probably is over the top

Other examples for interesting Buffs/Debuffs:
- Major Intellect (to allies, too?)
- Major Defile
- Minor Mangle to close Enemies?