Thaumaturge

CylindricalBox

EDIT: After running a few tests after @hrothbern pointed out an error in my test methodology, I've come to the conclusion that Thaumaturge is, for the most part, working correctly. I've not yet finished testing abilities from Sorcerer, Dragonknight, Nightblade, Werewolf, and Vampire. I'll update this post then. For now, I've turned this post into a sort of reference for what abilities Thaumaturge affects.

All testing done on One Tamriel PTS patch 2.6.2. The difference in damage between 0 points and 100 points in Thaumaturge was tested on the same enemy throughout. To find a specific ability, use your browser's Find function (CTRL + F).

Thaumaturge does not affect (no change in damage):

• Radial Sweep initial hit
• Binding Javelin
• Blazing Shield
• Burning Light
• Backlash, Purifying Light, and Power of the Light
• Cleave, Carve, and Brawler initial hit
• Critical Charge, Stampede, and Critical Rush
• Reverse Slash, Reverse Slice, Reverse Slice splash damage, and Executioner
• Puncture, Ransack, and Pierce Armor
• Low Slash, Deep Slash, and Heroic Slash
• Defensive Stance, Defensive Posture, and Absorb Magic
• Shield Charge, Shielded Assault, and Invasion
• Power Bash, Reverberating Bash, and Power Slam
• Twin Slashes, Rending Slashes, and Blood Craze initial hits
• Whirlwind, Whirling Blades, and Steel Tornado initial hit
• Hidden Blade, Flying Blade, and Shrouded Daggers
• Scatter Shot, Magnum Shot, and Draining Shot
• Arrow Spray, Bombard, and Acid Spray initial hit
• Snipe, Lethal Arrow, and Focused Aim
• Dawnbreaker, Flawless Dawnbreaker, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting initial hit
• Silver Bolts, Silver Shards, Silver Leash
• Meteor, Ice Comet, and Shooting Star initial damage
• Two Handed, One Hand and Shield, Dual Wield, Bow, and unarmed light attacks and heavy attacks
• Bash attacks
• Maelstrom Thunderous Volley enchantment
• Maelstrom Crushing Wall enchantment
• Weapon enchantments not otherwise listed anywhere in this post

Thaumaturge affects (damage = 25% more for 100 points invested):

• Radial Sweep, Empowering Sweep, and Crescent Sweep damage over time
• Puncturing Strikes, Puncturing Sweep, and Biting Jabs
• Spear Shards, Luminous Shards, Blazing Spear, and Blazing Spear Pulse
• Nova, Solar Prison, and Solar Disturbance damage over time
• Sun Fire, Vampire's Bane, and Reflective Light damage over time
• Radiant Destruction, Radiant Glory, and Radiant Oppression
• Ritual of Retribution
• Cleave, Carve, and Brawler damage over time
• Maelstrom Merciless Charge enchantment
• Twin Slashes, Rending Slashes, and Blood Craze Bleed damage over time
• Flurry, Bloodthirst, and Rapid Strikes
• Blade Cloak, Quick Cloak, Deadly Cloak
• Poison Arrow, Venom Arrow, and Poison Injection
• Volley, Endless Hail, and Arrow Barrage
• Acid Spray damage over time
• Flame Touch, Flame Clench, and Flame Reach damage over time
• Frost Touch, Frost Clench, and Frost Reach damage over time
• Shock Touch, Shock Clench, and Shock Reach damage over time
• Wall of Fire, Unstable Wall of Fire, Blockade of Fire
• Wall of Frost, Unstable Wall of Frost, Blockade of Frost
• Wall of Storms, Unstable Wall of Storms, Blockade of Storms
• Fire Ring damage over time
• Frost Ring damage over time
• Shock Ring damage over time
• Soul Trap, Soul Splitting Trap, Consuming Trap
• Soul Strike, Soul Assault, Shatter Soul, Shatter Soul area of effect
• Trap Beast, Rearming Trap, Lightweight Beast Trap initial hit and damage over time
• Meteor, Ice Comet, and Shooting Star damage over time
• Entropy, Degeneration, and Structured Entropy
• Scalding Rune damage over time
• Trapping Webs, Shadow Silk, and Tangling Webs initial hit
• Restoration and Lightning Staff heavy attacks
• Some status effects (Poisoned, Burning, but not Chill)

Thaumaturge over-buffs (damage > 25% more for 100 points invested):

• Puncturing Strikes and Puncturing Sweep (31%)
• Spear Shards, Luminous Shards, Blazing Spear, and Blazing Spear Pulse (31%)
• Sun Fire, Vampire's Bane, and Reflective Light damage over time (31%)
• Radiant Destruction, Radiant Glory, and Radiant Oppression (31%)
• Ritual of Retribution (31%)
• Wall of Fire, Unstable Wall of Fire, Blockade of Fire (32%)
• Wall of Frost, Unstable Wall of Frost, Blockade of Frost (32%)
• Wall of Storms, Unstable Wall of Storms, Blockade of Storms (32%)
• Fire Ring damage over time (32%)
• Frost Ring damage over time (32%)
• Shock Ring damage over time (32%)
• Restoration and Lightning Staff heavy attacks (27%)

Thaumaturge under-buffs (damage < 25% more for 100 points invested):

Many of these probably shouldn't even be buffed by the passive.

• Piercing Javelin and Aurora Javelin (5%)
  • Tested Aurora Javelin at max range in PVE (28 meters).
• Focused Charge and its morphs (5%)
• Sun Shield and Radiant Ward (5%)
• Sun Fire, Vampire's Bane, and Reflective Light initial hit (5%)
• Solar Flare, Dark Flare, Solar Barrage (5%)
• Eclipse, Total Dark, Unstable Core (5%)
• Flame Touch, Flame Clench, and Flame Reach initial hit (5%)
• Frost Touch, Frost Clench, and Frost Reach initial hit (5%)
• Shock Touch, Shock Clench, and Shock Reach initial hit (6%)
• Fire Impulse, Fire Pulsar, and Fire ring initial hit (6%)
• Frost Impulse, Frost Pulsar, and Frost Ring initial hit (6%)
• Shock Impulse, Shock Pulsar, and Shock Ring initial hit (6%)
• Fire Rune, Volcanic Rune, and Scalding Rune initial hit (4%)
• Inner Fire, Inner Rage, and Inner Beast (4%)
• Inferno, Ice, Lightning, and Restoration Staff light attacks (2%)
  • Small aside, apparently Lightning and Restoration Staff share the same damage for their light attacks and heavy attacks.
• Lightning Staff Shock Pulse (2%)

As it turns out, this is one of the muddiest CP passives, and there is no general rule for what constitutes a damage over time. This is not yet an exhaustive list, and I'll continue updating it in time. The gist of it is, don't trust those tool tips .

Smasherx74

Affect means to emotionally alter someone or something.

Effect means to physically alter someone or something.

Smasherx74

Everything you said it doesn't EFFECT is not a DOT, everything you said it did effect is a DOT. DoTs in this game are anything that slightly resemble a dot. Biting Jabs is a dot because it's multiple ticks of damage within the same ability. Power of the Light is not a dot because it's just a nerf and only does damage at the end of it's duration.

susmitds

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_BrianWheeler , @Wrobel

CylindricalBox

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Everything you said it doesn't EFFECT is not a DOT, everything you said it did effect is a DOT. DoTs in this game are anything that slightly resemble a dot. Biting Jabs is a dot because it's multiple ticks of damage within the same ability. Power of the Light is not a dot because it's just a nerf and only does damage at the end of it's duration.

Plenty of abilities which are not "traditional" damage over time effects are still affected by Thaumaturge. Solar Flare, which a single-hit ability is just one example. I'm not quite finished testing Sorcerer, Nightblade, and Dragonknight abilities, but I'll get around to that later today.

The point is, a lot of abilities gain a small buff from Thaumaturge when they really shouldn't. Moreover, there's inconsistency between the Maelstrom special enchantments, such as Merciless Charge fully gaining from Thaumaturge while Thunderous Volley does not.

timidobserver

Hopefully this thread doesn't result in a DPS nerf for me. Stambuilds are already far enough ahead.

Solariken

Hmm, very interesting. Is it fair to assume that these are (mostly) all functioning the same on live currently?

Smasherx74

CylindricalBox wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Everything you said it doesn't EFFECT is not a DOT, everything you said it did effect is a DOT. DoTs in this game are anything that slightly resemble a dot. Biting Jabs is a dot because it's multiple ticks of damage within the same ability. Power of the Light is not a dot because it's just a nerf and only does damage at the end of it's duration.

Plenty of abilities which are not "traditional" damage over time effects are still affected by Thaumaturge. Solar Flare, which a single-hit ability is just one example. I'm not quite finished testing Sorcerer, Nightblade, and Dragonknight abilities, but I'll get around to that later today.

The point is, a lot of abilities gain a small buff from Thaumaturge when they really shouldn't. Moreover, there's inconsistency between the Maelstrom special enchantments, such as Merciless Charge fully gaining from Thaumaturge while Thunderous Volley does not.

You're going to have to explain why you insist on using "affect" on something that has no emotion or mental state.


Because MErciless charge only EFFECTS criticals, Volley is the ability in general. Thats a balance issue.

CylindricalBox

Solariken wrote: »

Hmm, very interesting. Is it fair to assume that these are (mostly) all functioning the same on live currently?

I'm not sure. I would say yes, but there were undocumented changes to Critical Resistance as documented here, so Thaumaturge, too, could have changed between live and PTS. I'll try to do some limited testing on live later today.

CylindricalBox

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Because MErciless charge only EFFECTS criticals, Volley is the ability in general. Thats a balance issue.

Merciless Charge is a pretty straightforward damage over time and appears to work fine with Thaumaturge. Thunderous Volley, on the other hand, has an odd interaction that I've not yet figured out.

The damage dealt by the final tick of Volley without a Maelstrom bow and 0 points in Thaumaturge versus that same final tick with 100 points in Thaumaturge is an almost perfect 25% difference. That suggests Volley itself interacts well with Thaumaturge.

However, Volley with a Maelstrom bow and the same test results in only about a 10% difference in final tick damage. I'll have to look at the individual ticks to deduce for certain what's going on there, but I suspect that only the first tick of Volley receives a buff from Thaumaturge, and the following ticks are only based on the first.

It's not a balance issue, it's an issue with mechanics.

kylewwefan

Oi. I'm no big grammar guy but you're all messed up. DOT effects are affected by putting points into thaumaturge. See.

Autolycus

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Affect means to emotionally alter someone or something.

Effect means to physically alter someone or something.

af·fect1
əˈfekt/
verb
have an effect on; make a difference to.
"the dampness began to affect my health"

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Everything you said it doesn't EFFECT is not a DOT, everything you said it did effect is a DOT. DoTs in this game are anything that slightly resemble a dot. Biting Jabs is a dot because it's multiple ticks of damage within the same ability. Power of the Light is not a dot because it's just a nerf and only does damage at the end of it's duration.

Nice definition... your fluency in the English language is unsurpassed.

I think what you meant to say was that Power of the Light is a delayed damage ability, which is why it's not considered a DoT, because the damage is not counted over the course of time, but instead occurs all at once after a period of time.

DocFrost72

For my insatiable desire to be right, @Smasherx74

Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.

If you affect something, you do something. If you discuss an effect, you're discussing a result of someone or something affecting something or someone.

And have an insightful OP.

hrothbern

CylindricalBox wrote: »

All testing done on One Tamriel PTS patch 2.6.2. The difference in damage between 0 points and 100 points in Thaumaturge was tested on the same enemy throughout. To find a specific ability, use your browser's Find function (CTRL + F).

Thaumaturge does not affect (no change in damage):

• Radial Sweep initial hit
• Binding Javelin
• Blazing Shield
• Burning Light
• Backlash, Purifying Light, and Power of the Light
• Cleave, Carve, and Brawler initial hit
• Critical Charge, Stampede, and Critical Rush
• Reverse Slash, Reverse Slice, Reverse Slice splash damage, and Executioner
• Puncture, Ransack, and Pierce Armor
• Low Slash, Deep Slash, and Heroic Slash
• Defensive Stance, Defensive Posture, and Absorb Magic
• Shield Charge, Shielded Assault, and Invasion
• Power Bash, Reverberating Bash, and Power Slam
• Twin Slashes, Rending Slashes, and Blood Craze initial hits
• Whirlwind, Whirling Blades, and Steel Tornado initial hit
• Hidden Blade, Flying Blade, and Shrouded Daggers
• Scatter Shot, Magnum Shot, and Draining Shot
• Arrow Spray, Bombard, and Acid Spray initial hit
• Snipe, Lethal Arrow, and Focused Aim
• Dawnbreaker, Flawless Dawnbreaker, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting initial hit
• Silver Bolts, Silver Shards, Silver Leash
• Meteor, Ice Comet, and Shooting Star initial damage
• Two Handed, One Hand and Shield, Dual Wield, Bow, and unarmed light attacks and heavy attacks
• Bash attacks
• Maelstrom Thunderous Volley enchantment
• Maelstrom Crushing Wall enchantment
• Weapon enchantments not otherwise listed anywhere in this post

Thaumaturge correctly affects (damage = 25% more for 100 points invested):

• Radial Sweep, Empowering Sweep, and Crescent Sweep damage over time
• Biting Jabs
• Nova, Solar Prison, and Solar Disturbance damage over time
• Cleave, Carve, and Brawler damage over time
• Maelstrom Merciless Charge enchantment
• Twin Slashes, Rending Slashes, and Blood Craze Bleed damage over time
• Flurry, Bloodthirst, and Rapid Strikes
• Blade Cloak, Quick Cloak, Deadly Cloak
• Poison Arrow, Venom Arrow, and Poison Injection
• Volley, Endless Hail, and Arrow Barrage
• Acid Spray damage over time
• Flame Touch, Flame Clench, and Flame Reach damage over time
• Frost Touch, Frost Clench, and Frost Reach damage over time
• Shock Touch, Shock Clench, and Shock Reach damage over time
• Soul Trap, Soul Splitting Trap, Consuming Trap
• Soul Strike, Soul Assault, Shatter Soul, Shatter Soul area of effect
• Trap Beast, Rearming Trap, Lightweight Beast Trap initial hit and damage over time
• Meteor, Ice Comet, and Shooting Star damage over time
• Entropy, Degeneration, and Structured Entropy
• Scalding Rune damage over time
• Trapping Webs, Shadow Silk, and Tangling Webs initial hit
• Some status effects (Poisoned, Burning, but not Chill)

Thaumaturge over-buffs (damage > 25% more for 100 points invested):

• Puncturing Strikes and Puncturing Sweep (31%)
• Spear Shards, Luminous Shards, Blazing Spear, and Blazing Spear Pulse (31%)
• Sun Fire, Vampire's Bane, and Reflective Light damage over time (31%)
• Radiant Destruction, Radiant Glory, and Radiant Oppression (31%)
• Ritual of Retribution (31%)
• Wall of Fire, Unstable Wall of Fire, Blockade of Fire (32%)
• Wall of Frost, Unstable Wall of Frost, Blockade of Frost (32%)
• Wall of Storms, Unstable Wall of Storms, Blockade of Storms (32%)
• Fire Ring damage over time (32%)
• Frost Ring damage over time (32%)
• Shock Ring damage over time (32%)
• Restoration and Lightning Staff heavy attacks (27%)

Thaumaturge under-buffs (damage < 25% more for 100 points invested):

Many of these probably shouldn't even be buffed by the passive.

• Piercing Javelin and Aurora Javelin (5%)
  • Tested Aurora Javelin at max range in PVE (28 meters).
• Focused Charge and its morphs (5%)
• Sun Shield and Radiant Ward (5%)
• Sun Fire, Vampire's Bane, and Reflective Light initial hit (5%)
• Solar Flare, Dark Flare, Solar Barrage (5%)
• Eclipse, Total Dark, Unstable Core (5%)
• Flame Touch, Flame Clench, and Flame Reach initial hit (5%)
• Frost Touch, Frost Clench, and Frost Reach initial hit (5%)
• Shock Touch, Shock Clench, and Shock Reach initial hit (6%)
• Fire Impulse, Fire Pulsar, and Fire ring initial hit (6%)
• Frost Impulse, Frost Pulsar, and Frost Ring initial hit (6%)
• Shock Impulse, Shock Pulsar, and Shock Ring initial hit (6%)
• Fire Rune, Volcanic Rune, and Scalding Rune initial hit (4%)
• Inner Fire, Inner Rage, and Inner Beast (4%)
• Inferno, Ice, Lightning, and Restoration Staff light attacks (2%)
  • Small aside, apparently Lightning and Restoration Staff share the same damage for their light attacks and heavy attacks.
• Lightning Staff Shock Pulse (2%)

As it turns out, this is one of the muddiest CP passives, and there is no general rule for what constitutes a damage over time. This is not yet an exhaustive list, and I'll continue updating it in time. The gist of it is, don't trust those tool tips .

@CylindricalBox ,

The 6% instead of 0% and the 31% instead of 25% could very well come from the increased Magicka stat you get by having 100 CP's in the Mage constellation.

I tested on PTS Flame Touch and get the following values:
With zero CP:
1,587 initial hit and 2,035 for the DOT
With 100 CP in Blessed (to get the Magicka stat effects without damage increase):
1,684 intial hit and 2,160 for the DOT. Both approx 6% higher as base values
With 100 CP in Thaumaturge:
1,684 initial hit and 2,700 for the DOT. The DOT 25% higher than the 2,160 without Thaumaturge and approx 31% higher than the 2,035 without Thaumaturge AND the damage effect of the stat increase from 100 CP's in the Mage.

susmitds

hrothbern wrote: »

CylindricalBox wrote: »

All testing done on One Tamriel PTS patch 2.6.2. The difference in damage between 0 points and 100 points in Thaumaturge was tested on the same enemy throughout. To find a specific ability, use your browser's Find function (CTRL + F).

Thaumaturge does not affect (no change in damage):

• Radial Sweep initial hit
• Binding Javelin
• Blazing Shield
• Burning Light
• Backlash, Purifying Light, and Power of the Light
• Cleave, Carve, and Brawler initial hit
• Critical Charge, Stampede, and Critical Rush
• Reverse Slash, Reverse Slice, Reverse Slice splash damage, and Executioner
• Puncture, Ransack, and Pierce Armor
• Low Slash, Deep Slash, and Heroic Slash
• Defensive Stance, Defensive Posture, and Absorb Magic
• Shield Charge, Shielded Assault, and Invasion
• Power Bash, Reverberating Bash, and Power Slam
• Twin Slashes, Rending Slashes, and Blood Craze initial hits
• Whirlwind, Whirling Blades, and Steel Tornado initial hit
• Hidden Blade, Flying Blade, and Shrouded Daggers
• Scatter Shot, Magnum Shot, and Draining Shot
• Arrow Spray, Bombard, and Acid Spray initial hit
• Snipe, Lethal Arrow, and Focused Aim
• Dawnbreaker, Flawless Dawnbreaker, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting initial hit
• Silver Bolts, Silver Shards, Silver Leash
• Meteor, Ice Comet, and Shooting Star initial damage
• Two Handed, One Hand and Shield, Dual Wield, Bow, and unarmed light attacks and heavy attacks
• Bash attacks
• Maelstrom Thunderous Volley enchantment
• Maelstrom Crushing Wall enchantment
• Weapon enchantments not otherwise listed anywhere in this post

Thaumaturge correctly affects (damage = 25% more for 100 points invested):

• Radial Sweep, Empowering Sweep, and Crescent Sweep damage over time
• Biting Jabs
• Nova, Solar Prison, and Solar Disturbance damage over time
• Cleave, Carve, and Brawler damage over time
• Maelstrom Merciless Charge enchantment
• Twin Slashes, Rending Slashes, and Blood Craze Bleed damage over time
• Flurry, Bloodthirst, and Rapid Strikes
• Blade Cloak, Quick Cloak, Deadly Cloak
• Poison Arrow, Venom Arrow, and Poison Injection
• Volley, Endless Hail, and Arrow Barrage
• Acid Spray damage over time
• Flame Touch, Flame Clench, and Flame Reach damage over time
• Frost Touch, Frost Clench, and Frost Reach damage over time
• Shock Touch, Shock Clench, and Shock Reach damage over time
• Soul Trap, Soul Splitting Trap, Consuming Trap
• Soul Strike, Soul Assault, Shatter Soul, Shatter Soul area of effect
• Trap Beast, Rearming Trap, Lightweight Beast Trap initial hit and damage over time
• Meteor, Ice Comet, and Shooting Star damage over time
• Entropy, Degeneration, and Structured Entropy
• Scalding Rune damage over time
• Trapping Webs, Shadow Silk, and Tangling Webs initial hit
• Some status effects (Poisoned, Burning, but not Chill)

Thaumaturge over-buffs (damage > 25% more for 100 points invested):

• Puncturing Strikes and Puncturing Sweep (31%)
• Spear Shards, Luminous Shards, Blazing Spear, and Blazing Spear Pulse (31%)
• Sun Fire, Vampire's Bane, and Reflective Light damage over time (31%)
• Radiant Destruction, Radiant Glory, and Radiant Oppression (31%)
• Ritual of Retribution (31%)
• Wall of Fire, Unstable Wall of Fire, Blockade of Fire (32%)
• Wall of Frost, Unstable Wall of Frost, Blockade of Frost (32%)
• Wall of Storms, Unstable Wall of Storms, Blockade of Storms (32%)
• Fire Ring damage over time (32%)
• Frost Ring damage over time (32%)
• Shock Ring damage over time (32%)
• Restoration and Lightning Staff heavy attacks (27%)

Thaumaturge under-buffs (damage < 25% more for 100 points invested):

Many of these probably shouldn't even be buffed by the passive.

• Piercing Javelin and Aurora Javelin (5%)
  • Tested Aurora Javelin at max range in PVE (28 meters).
• Focused Charge and its morphs (5%)
• Sun Shield and Radiant Ward (5%)
• Sun Fire, Vampire's Bane, and Reflective Light initial hit (5%)
• Solar Flare, Dark Flare, Solar Barrage (5%)
• Eclipse, Total Dark, Unstable Core (5%)
• Flame Touch, Flame Clench, and Flame Reach initial hit (5%)
• Frost Touch, Frost Clench, and Frost Reach initial hit (5%)
• Shock Touch, Shock Clench, and Shock Reach initial hit (6%)
• Fire Impulse, Fire Pulsar, and Fire ring initial hit (6%)
• Frost Impulse, Frost Pulsar, and Frost Ring initial hit (6%)
• Shock Impulse, Shock Pulsar, and Shock Ring initial hit (6%)
• Fire Rune, Volcanic Rune, and Scalding Rune initial hit (4%)
• Inner Fire, Inner Rage, and Inner Beast (4%)
• Inferno, Ice, Lightning, and Restoration Staff light attacks (2%)
  • Small aside, apparently Lightning and Restoration Staff share the same damage for their light attacks and heavy attacks.
• Lightning Staff Shock Pulse (2%)

As it turns out, this is one of the muddiest CP passives, and there is no general rule for what constitutes a damage over time. This is not yet an exhaustive list, and I'll continue updating it in time. The gist of it is, don't trust those tool tips .

@CylindricalBox ,

The 6% instead of 0% and the 31% instead of 25% could very well come from the increased Magicka stat you get by having 100 CP's in the Mage constellation.

I tested on PTS Flame Touch and get the following values:
With zero CP:
1,587 initial hit and 2,035 for the DOT
With 100 CP in Blessed (to get the Magicka stat effects without damage increase):
1,684 intial hit and 2,160 for the DOT. Both approx 6% higher as base values
With 100 CP in Thaumaturge:
1,684 initial hit and 2,700 for the DOT. The DOT 25% higher than the 2,160 without Thaumaturge and approx 31% higher than the 2,035 without Thaumaturge AND the damage effect of the stat increase from 100 CP's in the Mage.

Magicka is increased 4.11% with 100 points in Mage. That's 1.10% extra damage in general.

Smasherx74

DocFrost72 wrote: »

For my insatiable desire to be right, @Smasherx74

Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.

If you affect something, you do something. If you discuss an effect, you're discussing a result of someone or something affecting something or someone.

And have an insightful OP.

You don't start a sentence with a coordinating conjunction.

Also, for the sake of refraining from being apart of this conversation. Trolling, baiting, and general harassment is not allowed here.

CylindricalBox

hrothbern wrote: »

@CylindricalBox ,

The 6% instead of 0% and the 31% instead of 25% could very well come from the increased Magicka stat you get by having 100 CP's in the Mage constellation.

I tested on PTS Flame Touch and get the following values:
With zero CP:
1,587 initial hit and 2,035 for the DOT
With 100 CP in Blessed (to get the Magicka stat effects without damage increase):
1,684 intial hit and 2,160 for the DOT. Both approx 6% higher as base values
With 100 CP in Thaumaturge:
1,684 initial hit and 2,700 for the DOT. The DOT 25% higher than the 2,160 without Thaumaturge and approx 31% higher than the 2,035 without Thaumaturge AND the damage effect of the stat increase from 100 CP's in the Mage.

Oh, you're right. I forgot to account for the extra Magicka from the CP % increase. That certainly makes sense why only Magicka abilities were over-buffed. I'll have to redo those

EDIT: Hmm, looking at some of these abilities again, 4% more Magicka shouldn't increase the damage by 6%. I'll report back after testing on the PTS.

hrothbern

CylindricalBox wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

@CylindricalBox ,

The 6% instead of 0% and the 31% instead of 25% could very well come from the increased Magicka stat you get by having 100 CP's in the Mage constellation.

I tested on PTS Flame Touch and get the following values:
With zero CP:
1,587 initial hit and 2,035 for the DOT
With 100 CP in Blessed (to get the Magicka stat effects without damage increase):
1,684 intial hit and 2,160 for the DOT. Both approx 6% higher as base values
With 100 CP in Thaumaturge:
1,684 initial hit and 2,700 for the DOT. The DOT 25% higher than the 2,160 without Thaumaturge and approx 31% higher than the 2,035 without Thaumaturge AND the damage effect of the stat increase from 100 CP's in the Mage.

Oh, you're right. I forgot to account for the extra Magicka from the CP % increase. That certainly makes sense why only Magicka abilities were over-buffed. I'll have to redo those

Happened to me also with testing something else that I forgot it

EDIT:
oh
The values I gave in my post were tooltip values
But I did also test the real values in combat with Combatmetrics against a wolf and corrected for the wolf Spell Resistance the tooltip values were correct for Flame Touch.

Neoauspex

Smasherx74 wrote: »

You don't start a sentence with a coordinating conjunction.

What do the 1820s grammar rules say about starting a sentence with an emoji?

DocFrost72

Neoauspex wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

You don't start a sentence with a coordinating conjunction.

What do the 1820s grammar rules say about starting a sentence with an emoji?

Probably something about how awesome trolling is.

Erock25

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Affect means to emotionally alter someone or something.

Effect means to physically alter someone or something.

Literally nothing worse in this world than a grammar *** that doesn't know what he's talking about.

kylewwefan

Does the over buff on ritual of retribution also make it heal stronger?

Acsvf

susmitds wrote: »

Magicka is increased 4.11% with 100 points in Mage. That's 1.10% extra damage in general.

1.1% more damage? How exactly did you figure for that number?

DocFrost72

Acsvf wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Magicka is increased 4.11% with 100 points in Mage. That's 1.10% extra damage in general.

1.1% more damage? How exactly did you figure for that number?

I also wonder this, since I know there is a flat conversion between magic and spell damage, but magicka percent is by definition not a fixed increase.

susmitds

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Acsvf wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Magicka is increased 4.11% with 100 points in Mage. That's 1.10% extra damage in general.

1.1% more damage? How exactly did you figure for that number?

I also wonder this, since I know there is a flat conversion between magic and spell damage, but magicka percent is by definition not a fixed increase.

That's the average increase. Check the Arithmagic post where all the value increases are given. Or use ESO skill log website to find the exact value.

Smasherx74

DocFrost72 wrote: »

For my insatiable desire to be right, @Smasherx74

Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.

If you affect something, you do something. If you discuss an effect, you're discussing a result of someone or something affecting something or someone.

And have an insightful OP.

CylindricalBox wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Because MErciless charge only EFFECTS criticals, Volley is the ability in general. Thats a balance issue.

Merciless Charge is a pretty straightforward damage over time and appears to work fine with Thaumaturge. Thunderous Volley, on the other hand, has an odd interaction that I've not yet figured out.

The damage dealt by the final tick of Volley without a Maelstrom bow and 0 points in Thaumaturge versus that same final tick with 100 points in Thaumaturge is an almost perfect 25% difference. That suggests Volley itself interacts well with Thaumaturge.

However, Volley with a Maelstrom bow and the same test results in only about a 10% difference in final tick damage. I'll have to look at the individual ticks to deduce for certain what's going on there, but I suspect that only the first tick of Volley receives a buff from Thaumaturge, and the following ticks are only based on the first.

It's not a balance issue, it's an issue with mechanics.

Erock25 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Affect means to emotionally alter someone or something.

Effect means to physically alter someone or something.

Literally nothing worse in this world than a grammar *** that doesn't know what he's talking about.

At least I don't have to use vulgarity to express an irrelevant opinion.

DocFrost72

susmitds wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Acsvf wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Magicka is increased 4.11% with 100 points in Mage. That's 1.10% extra damage in general.

1.1% more damage? How exactly did you figure for that number?

I also wonder this, since I know there is a flat conversion between magic and spell damage, but magicka percent is by definition not a fixed increase.

That's the average increase. Check the Arithmagic post where all the value increases are given. Or use ESO skill log website to find the exact value.

Ah, gotcha. Vested interest atm, building a magplar

Erock25

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

For my insatiable desire to be right, @Smasherx74

Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.

If you affect something, you do something. If you discuss an effect, you're discussing a result of someone or something affecting something or someone.

And have an insightful OP.

CylindricalBox wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Because MErciless charge only EFFECTS criticals, Volley is the ability in general. Thats a balance issue.

Merciless Charge is a pretty straightforward damage over time and appears to work fine with Thaumaturge. Thunderous Volley, on the other hand, has an odd interaction that I've not yet figured out.

The damage dealt by the final tick of Volley without a Maelstrom bow and 0 points in Thaumaturge versus that same final tick with 100 points in Thaumaturge is an almost perfect 25% difference. That suggests Volley itself interacts well with Thaumaturge.

However, Volley with a Maelstrom bow and the same test results in only about a 10% difference in final tick damage. I'll have to look at the individual ticks to deduce for certain what's going on there, but I suspect that only the first tick of Volley receives a buff from Thaumaturge, and the following ticks are only based on the first.

It's not a balance issue, it's an issue with mechanics.

Erock25 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Affect means to emotionally alter someone or something.

Effect means to physically alter someone or something.

Literally nothing worse in this world than a grammar *** that doesn't know what he's talking about.

At least I don't have to use vulgarity to express an irrelevant opinion.

Apparently a german political party circa 1940's is a vulgarity according to ZOS. I'm glad you've accepted that you were wrong about your grammar issues though.

Smasherx74

Erock25 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

For my insatiable desire to be right, @Smasherx74

Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.

If you affect something, you do something. If you discuss an effect, you're discussing a result of someone or something affecting something or someone.

And have an insightful OP.

CylindricalBox wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Because MErciless charge only EFFECTS criticals, Volley is the ability in general. Thats a balance issue.

Merciless Charge is a pretty straightforward damage over time and appears to work fine with Thaumaturge. Thunderous Volley, on the other hand, has an odd interaction that I've not yet figured out.

The damage dealt by the final tick of Volley without a Maelstrom bow and 0 points in Thaumaturge versus that same final tick with 100 points in Thaumaturge is an almost perfect 25% difference. That suggests Volley itself interacts well with Thaumaturge.

However, Volley with a Maelstrom bow and the same test results in only about a 10% difference in final tick damage. I'll have to look at the individual ticks to deduce for certain what's going on there, but I suspect that only the first tick of Volley receives a buff from Thaumaturge, and the following ticks are only based on the first.

It's not a balance issue, it's an issue with mechanics.

Erock25 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Affect means to emotionally alter someone or something.

Effect means to physically alter someone or something.

Literally nothing worse in this world than a grammar *** that doesn't know what he's talking about.

At least I don't have to use vulgarity to express an irrelevant opinion.

Apparently a german political party circa 1940's is a vulgarity according to ZOS. I'm glad you've accepted that you were wrong about your grammar issues though.

Okay thanks, now please stop harassing me.

Cryptical

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

For my insatiable desire to be right, @Smasherx74

Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.

If you affect something, you do something. If you discuss an effect, you're discussing a result of someone or something affecting something or someone.

And have an insightful OP.

CylindricalBox wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Because MErciless charge only EFFECTS criticals, Volley is the ability in general. Thats a balance issue.

Merciless Charge is a pretty straightforward damage over time and appears to work fine with Thaumaturge. Thunderous Volley, on the other hand, has an odd interaction that I've not yet figured out.

The damage dealt by the final tick of Volley without a Maelstrom bow and 0 points in Thaumaturge versus that same final tick with 100 points in Thaumaturge is an almost perfect 25% difference. That suggests Volley itself interacts well with Thaumaturge.

However, Volley with a Maelstrom bow and the same test results in only about a 10% difference in final tick damage. I'll have to look at the individual ticks to deduce for certain what's going on there, but I suspect that only the first tick of Volley receives a buff from Thaumaturge, and the following ticks are only based on the first.

It's not a balance issue, it's an issue with mechanics.

Erock25 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Affect means to emotionally alter someone or something.

Effect means to physically alter someone or something.

Literally nothing worse in this world than a grammar *** that doesn't know what he's talking about.

At least I don't have to use vulgarity to express an irrelevant opinion.

Apparently a german political party circa 1940's is a vulgarity according to ZOS. I'm glad you've accepted that you were wrong about your grammar issues though.

Okay thanks, now please stop harassing me.

It's not harassment. You screwed up, stuck your foot in your mouth, and tried to deflect your way through it without admitting your mistake. Your insistence on avoiding admission of the mistake is what drew that out this long. You should have just admitted that 'affect' has a more common definition than the one you originally mentioned, and the issue of your grammar pedantry would have disappeared.

On topic, how many hours did it take to work up this non-exhaustive yet still substantial list?!?!

Smasherx74

Cryptical wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

For my insatiable desire to be right, @Smasherx74

Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.

If you affect something, you do something. If you discuss an effect, you're discussing a result of someone or something affecting something or someone.

And have an insightful OP.

CylindricalBox wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Because MErciless charge only EFFECTS criticals, Volley is the ability in general. Thats a balance issue.

Merciless Charge is a pretty straightforward damage over time and appears to work fine with Thaumaturge. Thunderous Volley, on the other hand, has an odd interaction that I've not yet figured out.

The damage dealt by the final tick of Volley without a Maelstrom bow and 0 points in Thaumaturge versus that same final tick with 100 points in Thaumaturge is an almost perfect 25% difference. That suggests Volley itself interacts well with Thaumaturge.

However, Volley with a Maelstrom bow and the same test results in only about a 10% difference in final tick damage. I'll have to look at the individual ticks to deduce for certain what's going on there, but I suspect that only the first tick of Volley receives a buff from Thaumaturge, and the following ticks are only based on the first.

It's not a balance issue, it's an issue with mechanics.

Erock25 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Affect means to emotionally alter someone or something.

Effect means to physically alter someone or something.

Literally nothing worse in this world than a grammar *** that doesn't know what he's talking about.

At least I don't have to use vulgarity to express an irrelevant opinion.

Apparently a german political party circa 1940's is a vulgarity according to ZOS. I'm glad you've accepted that you were wrong about your grammar issues though.

Okay thanks, now please stop harassing me.

It's not harassment. You screwed up, stuck your foot in your mouth, and tried to deflect your way through it without admitting your mistake. Your insistence on avoiding admission of the mistake is what drew that out this long. You should have just admitted that 'affect' has a more common definition than the one you originally mentioned, and the issue of your grammar pedantry would have disappeared.

On topic, how many hours did it take to work up this non-exhaustive yet still substantial list?!?!

If someone has a L2P issue do you continue to repeatedly mention them sayign they suck? So why would you do the same for someone with a L2G issue?